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Thread: Balance shaft/timing job

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  1. Re: Balance shaft/timing job 
    #11
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    I understand now, remove balance shaft, take out circlip and pull out hex key and then remove the balance shaft 2. Then get the other shaft and slight tilt one with two and seat them together and repeat till both are in the same position. Now both shafts will rotate together and to stop both from rotating only one needs to be locked with the pin which only now have I found out goes at the rear of the shaft. One person keeps the pin in place to stop them from rotating while mating to intermediate gear and don't release pin till BS gear is mated to crank gear. From there they won't rotate as crank is locked and then release pin and bolt it all up. It really is a two person job. My axle stands go to 500mm so should give a bit of crawl space. Tell me more about pre lubing the BS, you put oil in the channels and assembly lube on the BS gears, does oil pump need to be primed too?
     
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  2. Re: Balance shaft/timing job 
    #12
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    Oil pump is self priming and pointless trying to fill it before the BS unit is refitted as the oil just falls out and creates a mess but I prefer to rotate the engine manually a half dozen to a dozen times after the auxiliary pulley is refitted (but before the aux belt is refitted as less effort - oil refilled with at least 3 litres FIRST and LOCKING TOOLS REMOVED) with an old fashioned deep 19mm ring spanner or 12 point socket on a medium bar just to get the oil moving into the pump / system.

    To give you an idea of what the job is like, the first time I did it was on my drive with a limited set of tools (basic sockets, spanners, bars and the necessary locking tool set including BS alignment pin block), in the cold and dark, on my own with just a cycle head torch - getting the unit back on was a trial at 1am in the morning - needed the car for work the next day - as I said I am pretty strong but it took all my effort and some arm pain to eventually bolt the BS unit using one hand to hold the unit flush and the alignment pin steady whilst inserting and doing up the first 2 central bolts tight enough to let go!
     
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  3. Re: Balance shaft/timing job 
    #13
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    You know with timing belt and keeping things TDC, why can't you just leave all the cogs at the exact same location and do a timing belt service or BS. The valves and pistons won't hit as they are left in the same position they were when they were running and it takes a great effort for them to magically rotate. Once everything is set I will rotate the engine manually clockwise, I've heard anti clockwise is bad but I don't know why they say that.

    That sucks, from what I've heard you did the BS job and then you did again cos you didn't use KMB and it failed. Then your head failed too. These cars have cost us so much. In total to repair BS, Clutch/DMF, heater core, Calipers/EPB, EGR cooler, Aux bearing for one of the rollers and a few preventative measures it will cost me £1200 and about £300 in tools. I was quoted £400 in labour if I wanted BS done by one of Leeds best Vag Specialists but that doesn't include additional parts for renewal of bolts. I'm hoping so solve all the issues and then 100K trouble free miles with only standard servicing and timing belt. I'm hoping BS lasts atleast 200K additional miles.
     
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  4. Re: Balance shaft/timing job 
    #14
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    The lock prevents engine rotation and also locates the timing belt which is a very tight fit for a new one and would cause engine rotation when fitting. Even a tooth out can destroy an engine on occasions - always best to be safe than sorry. For the TB the engine needs to be on a hoist or support bar as the left engine mount has to be removed. You also need the flexibility to raise and lower the engine to remove the engine mount bolts. More difficult to do that with jacks alone (I have access to an engine hoist now - courtesy of the old man). The 6 cam adjuster bolts have to be undone too for the TB change which means the cam sprockets are allowed to rotate to their reset position before the new belt is fitted. Retentioning the belt may also cause the engine to rotate momentarily if not locked and you'd have to put it back to the TDC locked position anyway if that happened and hope you're not a tooth or two out.

    Head failed at 121k way before the BS. The non KMB shaft lasted 38k but KMB have NEVER had a failure or returned shaft since they started re-engineering them many years ago and expect them to last the original life expectancy of the car which is a further 300,000 miles or more. Having seen a 100k KMB shaft intact with pretty much zero wear on either hole or key bar I don't doubt their claim one iota.

    I have had pretty much all of the known engine and running gear failures - she now owes me a few years trouble free service of which I have now had at least one and a half and still running fine. 9000 miles services on time every time.
     
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  5. Re: Balance shaft/timing job 
    #15
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    Yes I've seen a good video on you tube of a diy of timing belt being done. The engine support bar is definitely worth the investment. I wonder if a engine crane can be used for the same purpose but I don't know whether it would be as effective. I'm thinking of also getting a tranny jack but hopefully a tranny jack attachment can be added to an existing standard jack. I couldn't imagine how hard aligning the gearbox to the engine would be.

    Glad KMB is worth the investment, their balance shaft is one of the most expensive especially when you have to trade in your own. By summer my car should be mechanically perfect with only the body that needs a real good clean. It does get the occasional wash but nothing more and now it's getting a bit of rust spots.
     
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  6. Re: Balance shaft/timing job 
    #16
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    Unless you have the lowest of the low profile jacks and the highest of the high axle stands a tranny jack attachment is not a good investment. The old man has the post fit to jack saddle hole type attachment - never used it. Virtually impossible using standard 2 or 3 ton stands and a standard jack as the stands don't put the car anywhere near high enough to clear a B6 box on top of the transmission unit on top of a jack. Aligning the gearbox whilst properly balanced on a jack is a skill but once mastered fairly easy. Weight distribution of the box is key and some stabilising support. I sometimes use rachet cargo straps to hold the box up and gradually lift it by hand lying below whilst my mate rachets in the slack (he has a support bar which is a good investment). I can control the box rotation this way which once aligned can be easily pushed onto the shaft then held there while the first bolts are inserted and tightened.

    There is little clearance for the gearbox without either putting the front into 'service position' or removing the subframe (better). Each is a bit of a PITA and removing the subframe entails renewal of the 6 subframe bolts and use of T10096 location pins, disconnection of the steering column, electrical harness, track rod ends, ARB stabilisers, wishbones from ball joints, and 'dog bone' gearbox support plus driveshafts from hubs inner CV joints (they need to come off anyway) . I find it much, much easier this way despite it being a faff.
     
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  7. Re: Balance shaft/timing job 
    #17
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    The axle stands I have are 600mm, I think I said they were 500mm by mistake before, they are 6 ton each. I think for timing belt a engine support bar is best and for me due to be able to get my hands on a engine crane for £10 a day, wrapped around the gearbox will be good as with straps or chain, it will allow side to side and tilt. Support bars do cost a bit and so do other things such as a good jack but if it makes the job easy compared to frustrating I think it's worth it for sure, it's a one off investment that keeps paying off each job. I've heard that hanging the gearbox off the shaft while bolting it in is bad for the shaft as its not meant to carry the weight of the gearbox, I'd definitely avoid it when possible. But as you say to do try to pick it up while your friend bolts it in.
     
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  8. Re: Balance shaft/timing job 
    #18
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    It's not heavy - around 90 to 100 kilos I'd guess! Yes very bad to have it catch and load weight onto the shaft. I'm 6 foot and 17 stone so can lift a B6 DSG box with a good bit of effort and pressing it upwards pretty near to my absolute limit. The manual is slightly smaller / lighter.
     
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  9. Re: Balance shaft/timing job 
    #19
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    That's a fair weight, not too heavy. I actually feel like opening it to give it a good clean, the gearbox fluid doesn't get changed nor has the brake fluid but that will change soon. I've been told that you can only bleed the ABS via VCDS. Due to it only being £40/60 every two years I'll probably get a reputable garage to do it, for years brake pedal has been pudgy due to what I think is air in the system. Can I ask, what is your produce of doing it as there are several methods to bleed a cars break, what works best for B6?
     
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  10. Re: Balance shaft/timing job 
    #20
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    Normal 2 person bleed is fine as it creates more pressure than a regular pressure bleeder. Power pressure bleeders can be used but the pressure suggested is 2 bar which is higher than the regular bleeder instructions state and a very good seal is needed on the master cylinder filler hole. It is recommended somewhere to use VCDS to cycle the ABS pump whilst manually bleeding but others say this is not necessary on a B6 which will purge itself with a few ABS braking cycles. There is much on the Internet regarding this subject.

    Recommended sequence for a B6 is:

    Left Front
    Right Front
    Left Rear
    Right Rear

    This is different to the earlier B4 and B5 models which have a different ABS pump.

    Mine doesn't share the braking circuit with clutch as yours might as it is a DSG box.
     
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