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Thread: P0401 EGR insufficient flow-vw passat BKP

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  1. P0401 EGR insufficient flow-vw passat BKP 
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    Hi everyone, so I have the fault mentioned in the title and it's a pretty widely discussed issue. To talk you through a bit of the cars history, the original engine had coolant loss, no visual signs, I dumped twice at different times coolant loss sealant. Once engine was changed the coolant loss continued, so that told me it wasn't a leaky head, the engine didn't smoke either. Second engine came at 191K and coolant loss continued at a very small rate, I'm talking the coolant overflow tank would reach minimum lvl once a month, second engine also had white smoke unlike first, not too excessive. Then the turbo actuator was replaced, it was calibrated by comparing the other actuator (I know, wrong way of calibrating it, you should use a muty-vac). So then the emissions garage sign would come up, no lights on dashboard or limp mode. I thought damn, actuator isn't happy with its settings. I would rev engine and once above 2K reves it would make this whining noise, I thought it was turbo overspolling (but I thought, why no limp mode then?). This was the noise for anyone interested

    VW Passat B6 3C 103kw BMP EGR Cooler squealing - YouTube

    Long story short I hooked up the computer, got the code, read a few threads and I believe the whining, emissions garage, missing coolant is all due to the egr cooler. When engine was changed 10K miles make, egr was well cleaned and I do drive my cars hard. Now my question is, I know the egr cooler is whining, it maybe the reason of potential coolant loss and egr throwing up a code. The only question I have is perhaps I had a leaky radiator too, that's why coolant was at a higher rate. Also does coolant seal even go through ear cooler passage? So what is the conclusion, is it fair to assume that the damaged egr cooler that enjoys whining is also leaking coolant hence white smoke from exhaust and emissions light. Perhaps the reason why previous engine didn't smoke or make a whining noise is cos I had coolant loss else where. Also if I haven't mentioned, this whining and emissions light occurred once I got the new engine. Perhaps they didn't put it together properly, hmm....
     
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  2. Re: P0401 EGR insufficient flow-vw passat BKP 
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    first thing I would do is replace the cap for the expansion bottle . Its cheap and a good starting point, buy brand new and you can waste a lot of time looking for a leak that isnt there
    VW POLO 2002 1.2 12v , Audi A6 2006 2.0 TDi SE , Skoda Fabia 1.4 TDi

    All 3 cars in the current fleet
     
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  3. Re: P0401 EGR insufficient flow-vw passat BKP 
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    2nd thing is watch this on youtube Symptoms of a bad EGR cooler - YouTube near your video


    you need to badly replace that egr cooler , that's a terrible noise
    VW POLO 2002 1.2 12v , Audi A6 2006 2.0 TDi SE , Skoda Fabia 1.4 TDi

    All 3 cars in the current fleet
     
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  4. Re: P0401 EGR insufficient flow-vw passat BKP 
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    I have changed it and the fact that it was leaking more prior to using stop leak fluid suggests that it isn't leaking from the cap. I read this really good article which I can't darn find which suggests that when a egr cooler goes bad coolant either leaks at exhaust or makes its way into inlet. Worst case scenario is the coolant turns into steam, enters combustion chamber and due to the steam, causes a higher pressure combustion leading to head gasket failure. Coolant going from egr cooler into the wrong place can also cause hydrolock too which is another awful outcome.

    I have read that when coolant goes where it shouldn't, when starting her up cold, she runs really rough with white smoke coming out. I'd like to add this to what I have already mentioned, upon cold start-up the engine is rough, revs jump up and down between 800/1000rpm for less than 5 secs. If I start her up again after running her for 5 mins even with engine still cold, she fires up straight away. What is causing her to run rough the first time? I believe that the guru that mentioned egr cooler failing and causing coolant to go where it shouldn't is the answer. I've been driving like this for 10K miles, thinking I just had a unhappy turbo, silly me. I never even knew egr cooler failure was so disastrous. I'd like to also mention it has had recent filters changed, correct oil put in for the pd engine, 5W 40 pd engine oil. I believe with egr cooler hissing, consuming coolant, white smoke, rough early morning starts and computer throwing a fault code, it is fair to assume that this is the culprit. My previous engine on cold start fired up cold nicely, this engine doesn't, I thought there must have been something in this engine (not components around it) that caused rough start up, but I was wrong. It was due to a degraded egr cooler. Inspecting the egr cooler so see if it's had coolant, it should be wet and the eye valve. I will have a pressure test done to see where the leak is, but even if egr cooler isn't drinking coolant, we know it's knackered from the other symptoms so it's replacement time for it.

    This is the past number for the egr cooler 03G131513J. I can only find used ones and don't have a clue where to find the gaskets for it. Luckily the egr cooler second hand is very cheap. I'd also like to ask do you guys feel that the when changing egr cooler that the oil cooler should be changed at same time. I have heard they should be. With everything brought to light, is there anything you guys could add, I'd like to know what you guys think, if I do replace egr cooler I'll be flushing the system, is ionised water the best to mix with the coolant to fight rust?
     
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  5. Re: P0401 EGR insufficient flow-vw passat BKP 
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    Nothing to do with the EGR cooler. If I was a betting man (and I can hear your DMF plates rattling) I'd put money on either the excess movement causing the flywheel to catch the thin metal ring gasket between your gearbox and engine or you have a dry release bearing and the ball bearing are making the noise as the speed and heat increases. The screech is metal on metal and there are no parts in the EGR cooler that will make this noise. If you decide to renew your DMF I am sure you will see evidence of scraping or a failed release bearing.
    Mad Mitch
    VW Passat 2.0 Tdi Sport 170 BMR Engine, JPQ G/Box, DSG
    Premium Phone Kit, MFSW, Alarm Chirps, Rain Closure, Auto Close
    Emergency Braking Light Flash, Spots as DRLs. VCDS + MicroCAN, 200K Club
     
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  6. Re: P0401 EGR insufficient flow-vw passat BKP 
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    I've heard in my time two different DMF's on their way out, they make a rattling noise, no such noise is made from my car and if it was, I know it would be DMF. You can also find out that it is DMF by pushing clutch in, sound should disappear. My noise is a hissing noise, no rattle, I do have slight dmf noise tbh and when I push clutch in it goes, I have distinguished the two different sounds. The hissing noise kicks in at 2000rpm like a loud whine, if it was turbo it would throw a code and put me in limp. The noise is exact same as the above video. Perhaps when the thin metal gasket is worn it does make that sound too. Hmm....only DMF noise I've heard is the worn springs between the two plates smacking each other causing a clatter sound. So with this all in mind, you still think it's the DMF? What about coolant loss, white smoke, the code the computer throws up, rough start, this is all just a coincidence that all the things that suggest egr cooler is shot occurs. I'm not saying I know better than you, I'm not trying to undermine you, but it does beg the question.
     
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  7. Re: P0401 EGR insufficient flow-vw passat BKP 
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    I was only answering the noise on the video link but now realise it was a sample from another car - which had a failing DMF (100% sure of that as identical to mine before I changed it). As for the coolant loss have you checked the top of the gearbox for signs of coolant pooling in the mouldings. If the gasket goes on the connector below the tandem pump it can pool coolant on top of the gearbox a lot of which will evaporate. Other causes of loss as you know are internal corrosion of the EGR cooler tubes or head cracks (present on over 50% of these engines but most small enough to be within VW normal operating tolerances). Most larger head cracks allowing coolant into the cylinders will blow the first EGT sensor most of the time as the sensors don't like getting wet.

    Do you get white smoke when the car is running at normal engine temperature (this eliminates normal start up condensation evaporating when the car is still cold and the exhaust warming up)?

    Is there any moisture under the carpet in the footwells (bad matrix)?

    Have you left the undertray off overnight with a piece of dry cardboard underneath across the entire engine? Easy way to find external leaks. Finally the bottom corner of the radiators where the plastic side tanks fit are prone to corroding and leakage as is corrosion / damage to the top channels (you may see a pink crusty line down one side of the radiator.
    Mad Mitch
    VW Passat 2.0 Tdi Sport 170 BMR Engine, JPQ G/Box, DSG
    Premium Phone Kit, MFSW, Alarm Chirps, Rain Closure, Auto Close
    Emergency Braking Light Flash, Spots as DRLs. VCDS + MicroCAN, 200K Club
     
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  8. Re: P0401 EGR insufficient flow-vw passat BKP 
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    Okay I understand, I haven't checked under the tandem pump or left a piece of cardboard under the car. I have checked under the car with it running at operating temp on a lift. Idling and reving at 3000rpm and no drip onto floor.

    No I do not get white smoke at operating temp, I only get that combined with a rough start up with revs going up and down at a first start up of the day. The engine will not run rough when starting up cold unless it's been left for a number of hours. I have been driving for 10K miles and without fail the rough start up occurs on first start up of the day or a few hours of it sitting. The white smoke isn't huge, it also doesn't have a nasty smell. It's just a little smoke for a few mins that could well be evaporating, I guess to find out why the revs jump up and down at first start up it's time to hook up the VCDS and look at the values. But as mentioned, those that have suffered egr cooler issues have had either white smoke and rough start up or both combined.

    Their is no moisture on the carpet, haven't checked under the carpet though but I doubt it would be, will check though! I will also check the edges of the radiator but I have had quick checks before and haven't seen nothing. I have generally scanned top and underneath of engine, haven't seen any crust. I guess I need to do a pressure test to see if it's internal or external leak. I doubt it's a cracked head as it had coolant loss before the second engine, unless bad luck gave me two cracked heads. There is online info to find out if head I have is prone to crack, will check. But I think it's 05/early 06 which are mostly affected. Mines a 56 car but I don't know when new engine was manufactured. I think BKP went up to 07.

    So I will check footwell, radiator, have a pressure test done if still no find and try to find someone with a VCDS, I think most specialist VW garages should have them. I need to speak to VW/diesel garage experts and see their consultation. I also should check egr to see if it's wet or been steam cleaned.
     
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  9. Re: P0401 EGR insufficient flow-vw passat BKP 
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    I don't know if this is practical but could you not isolate the coolant pipes from the EGR cooler.
    Then no possibility of coolant leaking via the EGR or getting into the engine through this route.
     
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  10. Re: P0401 EGR insufficient flow-vw passat BKP 
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    BKP I believe goes to early 2009 - they made slight changes in 2007 like glow plug relay voltage 7v to 4.4v but bad cracks affected engines into 2007 for sure as my March 2007 BMR had a head change in 2012 to a much stronger AMC head. I know of two 57 plate engines having cracks, one BKP and the other a BMR like mine. It is possible that coolant is seeping into the cylinders when cold as cracks are bigger at that point and seal temporarily as heat expands the head metal at normal temp. Makes the first start harder. Mine ran really well even with a cracked head though but after a while I could not go on as it was blowing the EGT sensors one after the other (125 a pop and she blew 4 of them! Fortunately VW covered the first 2 under parts warranty). Oil coolers can leak water into the oil but you'd get some 'mayo' in the oil filler cap if this was the case.
    Mad Mitch
    VW Passat 2.0 Tdi Sport 170 BMR Engine, JPQ G/Box, DSG
    Premium Phone Kit, MFSW, Alarm Chirps, Rain Closure, Auto Close
    Emergency Braking Light Flash, Spots as DRLs. VCDS + MicroCAN, 200K Club
     
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