Smoke whilst accelerating... ?

[Gazwould]

Yes , it has to be mineral based JASO FB spec .

Semi and synthetic FC and FD don't dissolve well in the fuel and are more expensive anyway .

The oil brings additional lubricity to the pump and detergents and dispersants to keep the fuel system clean .

Being a petrol additive it must burn like petrol so it's molecules are first to ignite under diesels compression ignition then the diesel molecules follow acting as a catalyst , so this reduces diesels ignition delay ( diesel knock ) thus improving the fuels Cetane number .

The results are , quicker starting particularly noticeable from cold , quieter smoother engine mostly noticeable at idle , less smoke out of exhaust as better combustion ( half's mot smoke opacity tests ) . Less carbon deposits in egr , intake manifold , turbo , etc .

Motor factor diesel 'Stop smoke' products are kerosene based again more ignitable than diesel .

More mpg , only a few .



10 Litre Diesel ---> 50 Ml.
20 Litre Diesel ---> 100 Ml
30 Litre Diesel ---> 150 Ml.
40 Litre Diesel ---> 200 Ml.
50 Litre Diesel ---> 250 Ml.
60 Litre Diesel ---> 300 Ml.
70 Litre Diesel ---> 350 Ml.
80 Litre Diesel ---> 400 Ml.
90 Litre Diesel ---> 450 Ml.
100 Litre Diesel ---> 500 Ml.


There's also 2-EHN a genuine cetane number improver .

[germanwhip81]

Interesting stuff, thanks for the response.. I’m aware I’m getting away from the original point of the thread here but how much 2stroke would one use per tank full?

Thanks

[Vagnuts]

Whats this about 2 stroke?

never mind the 2stoke--veg /sunflower oil -clean exhaust as its not a carbon base fuel just vegetable mater so no carbon build up in any part of engine !! mix it with your diesel and I bet you notice the car runs quieter smoother better all round !!

[Vagnuts]

2-Stroke Oil In Diesel – A Technical Study

— Adrian Velaers - Sasol Energy Technology

ABSTRACT

The practice of adding 2-stroke oil to diesel is a topic that is enthusiastically discussed and debated by diesel vehicle owners around the world. The consensus of opinion on the ideal blending ratio as per some internet forums is reported to be a 200:1 volume mixture of JASO-FC grade 2-stroke oil in low sulphur diesel. The benefits of this are claimed to be better lubrication of injectors and fuel pumps, improved cetane number resulting in better combustion, and no detrimental effects. As these claims are based on anecdotal evidence, this study aimed to quantify any such effects under scientific laboratory conditions.
The motorist’s motivation for following this self-medication advice stems from a perception that low sulphur diesel has inadequate lubrication capabilities in the high-tech fuel pump and fuel injection hardware found in modern diesel engines. The basis for this is not that sulphur itself acts as a lubricant, but rather that trace amounts of polar molecules present in crude-oil give diesel good lubricity properties. It is true that the refinery process used to remove sulphur from diesel also tends to remove these polar molecules. However, it is quite simple to replace the lost polar molecules by adding a lubricity improver additive which is the universal norm for low sulphur diesel practiced by the oil industry throughout the world.
This study reviews the industry standard test method for diesel lubricity which is part of SANS 342:2014, the standard governing the sale of diesel in South Africa. A diesel fuel passing this test demonstrates a high level of lubricity and adequate protection of modern diesel injection equipment. A number of test fuels were blended with and without 2-stroke oil and tested according to this method. An additional diesel lubricity test method known to be representative of diesel fuel pump wear was also used to confirm the results. The study also tested the cetane number of the same fuels to quantify any cetane benefit derived from 2-stroke oil in diesel. The 2-stroke oils used in the study were also analysed for metal content and high levels of zinc and other metals were found in the oils tested.
The study also included engine dynamometer testing using a modern common rail passenger car diesel engine. Engine performance and emissions were compared under laboratory conditions. Common rail injector fouling tests were also run to compare low sulphur diesel to the same fuel dosed with 2-stroke oil.
The results of the study support a view that the practice of dosing diesel with 2-stroke oil is surprisingly ineffective in terms of lubricity and cetane improvements. Engine performance, fuel consumption and emissions were also unchanged; however the use of 2-stroke oil in diesel is potentially harmful to modern diesel injection equipment. Trace amounts of zinc, an element which is found in most 2-stroke oils, are well known to cause injector nozzle fouling and the study measured high levels of injector fouling when the test engine was running on diesel dosed with 2-stroke oil. While the oil industry may not mind the additional revenue from the sale of 2-stroke oil with each tank of diesel, this study demonstrated that it is not in the best interest of the user to do so.
Keywords: 2-stroke oil, 2SO, lubricity, diesel, injector fouling

[Vagnuts]

4. EXPERIMENTAL PROCEDURE

The following fuels were blended and used in the test methods listed:
Table 1: Test fuels

Sample Name	Fuel Description	2-stroke oil	LIA*
EN590	European grade low sulphur diesel	No	Yes
EN590 + 2SO	European grade low sulphur diesel + 2-stroke oil	200:1	Yes
Market Diesel	South African low sulphur diesel from Johannesburg forecourt	No	Yes
Market Diesel + 2SO	South African low sulphur diesel + 2-stroke oil	200:1	Yes
Refinery Diesel	Low sulphur unadditised refinery diesel	No	No
Refinery Diesel + 2SO	Low sulphur unadditised refinery diesel + 2-stroke oil	200:1	No
2SO	2-stroke oil complying to JASO FC/API TC/ISO GD	-	-
* LIA : Lubricity Improver Additive

In this investigation the following test methods have been used:

1. Lubricity:
   
   • HFRR (High Frequency Reciprocating Rig) - ASTM D6079
   • SLBOCLE (Scuffing Load Ball-on-Cylinder Evaluator) – ASTM D6078
   
   
2. Cetane number:
   
   • Derived cetane number using the IQT™ (Ignition Quality Tester) - ASTM 6890
   
   
3. Zinc content:
   
   • Traces of zinc analysed by ICP-AES. Detection limit of 15ppb
   
   
4. Exhaust emissions:
   
   • Engine test measured over the New European Drive Cycle (NEDC) on an engine bench dynamometer
   
   
5. Injector fouling:
   
   • Engine test measured using the Sasol Common Rail Injector Fouling test on an engine bench dynamometer:
     Engine tests were conducted at the Sasol Automotive Lab in Cape Town, using accepted industry standard test procedures. The engine used in this case was a 1.6 litre, 4-cylinder turbo-diesel engine with piezo-electric common rail fuel injection from a popular passenger car sold in South Africa.
   
   

5. RESULTS

The results of the various test procedures are given in the sections below with brief descriptions.
5.1 Lubricity

HFRR test results:

The HFRR (High Frequency Reciprocating Rig) was used to measure diesel lubricity by rubbing a steel ball on a plate in a bath of fuel. The ball develops a flat spot over the course of the test which is called the wear scar, the diameter of which is the measure of diesel lubricity. All diesel sold in South Africa must pass this test with a maximum wear scar of 460 microns, which does ensure adequate lubricity for all diesel fuel systems. This is the same specification as applied in Europe and many other parts of the world. The results in Figure 1 represent the fuels tested as per Table 1.
Figure 1: HFRR Lubricity results
The test method has an uncertainty band indicated by the error bars on the graph. Only differences that exceed these repeatability limits can be considered significant. Results that fall within the repeatability band of the method are considered to be the same. The neat 2-stroke oil itself was also tested and it is interesting to note that the lubricity of the oil is not vastly better than a final market diesel, hence it is not surprising to see no significant difference between the various fuels and those dosed at 200:1 with 2-stroke oil. Liquid fuel properties such as viscosity were identical at a 2-stroke oil dose of 200:1 in the diesels.
Note that by law in South Africa, diesel has to meet SANS 342:2014 lubricity specifications before being sold into to the market. In cases where lubricity does not meet the HFRR specification, a lubricity improver additive will be dosed at the refinery or depot and the bulk fuel tank will be tested for compliance. The refinery diesel results from Figure 1 are not unusual for desulphured diesel which does not contain a lubricity improver additive. The difference between the refinery and market diesel in Figure 1 is indicative of the efficiency of the lubricity improver additive itself and puts the minimal effect of 2-stroke oil into perspective.
SLBOCLE test results:

The other test method for diesel lubricity used in this study was the SLBOCLE (Scuffing Load Ball-on-Cylinder Lubricity Evaluator). This method measures seizure load. Although it is not written into any legislated specification for diesel, it was used to gain a better understanding on the lubricity effect of 2-stroke oil in diesel. The results are presented in Figure 2 using the same test fuels.
Similar to the HFRR, the method has some degree of uncertainty indicated by the error bars. Neat 2-stroke oil was also tested here and the results are very similar to the HFRR in terms of the negligible lubricity benefit of 2-stroke oil in a diesel fuel system application.
Note that the practise of diluting diesel with illuminating paraffin (IP) is illegal and has a detrimental effect on lubricity. As seen in the results in Figure 1 and Figure 2, 2-stroke oil will not help to bring this into specification; whereas additional lubricity improver additive might be able to. In South African law, IP has to contain a tracer additive which enables easy detection of diesel that contains IP. Results of diesel-IP blends are not published here as this practice should in no way be endorsed by a technical publication, however it can be revealed that the effect of 2-stroke oil was similarly negligible.
Figure 2: SLBOCLE Lubricity results
5.2 Cetane Number

According to the Derived Cetane number test method ASTM 6890, fuel samples are ignited in a combustion chamber at elevated temperature and pressure. The ignition delay is measured and correlated to the cetane number scale. The results in Figure 3 represent the relevant fuels tested.
Figure 3: Cetane number test results
There is no technical reason for trace amounts of a light lubricating oil to materially change the ignition characteristics of diesel. The results follow by indicating negligible differences in cetane number when 2-stroke oil is added to diesel at 200:1. The repeatability of the test method is indicated by the error bars, and results within this repeatability are considered to be the same.
5.3 Zinc Content

Modern diesel engines require clean diesel, which refers to diesel free of harmful contaminants such as sulphur and metals. It is well known that sulphur can poison the platinum coated catalysts and oxygen sensors, and also cause a build-up of sulphuric acid in the oil. It is of course beneficial to use the lowest sulphur that can be sourced, and any diesel engine is compatible with sulphur free diesel. It is less well known that traces of soft metals such as zinc and copper can be dissolved into diesel fuel and are known to cause stubborn injector nozzle deposits. These deposits narrow the nozzle holes of diesel fuel injectors which result in less fuel delivery and engine power loss over time. 2-stroke oil, like most engine oils, does contain zinc. In this study two different brands of 2-stroke oil, referred to here as 2SO A and 2SO B, were analysed and found to contain high levels of zinc:

• 2SO A: 15.8ppm Zn
• 2SO B: 16.9ppm Zn

Zinc levels as low as 1pmm in diesel can cause severe injector fouling and such fuels are used for injector fouling engine tests to accelerate fouling for research purposes. Low levels of zinc were measured using the ICP-AES method specifically calibrated for diesel measurements and accurate to 15ppb. Figure 4 indicates the various fuels and 2-stroke oil blends that were tested. Included in this figure is the injector fouling test fuel which is discussed in further detail in Section 5.5.
Figure 4: Zinc analysis of test fuels
Zinc content held in solution is strongly dependant on the solvency power of the specific fuel, which is why different fuels can show different zinc contents for the same level of zinc added (Velaers, 2013).
5.4 Exhaust Emissions

2-stroke petrol engines are associated with excessive exhaust gas emissions and visible blue smoke. In order to quantify the effect of 2-stroke oil on exhaust emissions in a diesel engine, exhaust emission tests were conducted according to the NEDC (New European Drive Cycle) at the Sasol Automotive Lab on a transient engine dynamometer. The engine used was the same 4 Cylinder common rail turbo-diesel as described in Section 4.
Exhaust emissions of the Market Diesel were compared to a 200:1 blend of Market diesel and 2-stroke oil. The test was repeated three times for each fuel and the average results were compared. The results showed that the 2-stroke oil had a negligible effect on all legislated emissions (Carbon Monoxide, Hydrocarbons, Nitrogen Oxides and Particulate Matter (black smoke)). There was also no evidence of any visible smoke. The fuel consumption over the test cycle was also unchanged. This is in-line with expectations as 2-stroke oil is a light oil such as diesel, so small amounts should have no marked effect on emissions from a diesel engine. Any resultant damage to exhaust after treatment systems can however increase emissions.
5.5 Injector fouling

The Sasol Common Rail Injector Fouling test method is based on a worldwide industry standard test for injector fouling. The development of this test procedure and subsequent results have featured in a number of peer reviewed international publications (Velaers, 2012/2013). In this study fuels were tested without detergency additives or any artificial zinc addition. The same 4 Cylinder common rail turbo-diesel as described in Section 4 was used in this test procedure on a bench dynamometer at the Sasol Automotive Lab.
Figure 5: The engine test apparatus used at the Sasol Automotive Lab
The engine test was started with new injectors and was run over a very high load test cycle for 16 hours. Every 30 minutes the engine’s full power and associated fuel flow was measured at 4400rpm (rated power and maximum rail pressure point of the engine). Any drop in power and fuel flow over the running time of the test indicates that injector fouling is taking place, restricting fuel flow though the injector nozzle holes into the engine.
Figure 6: Results of the Sasol Common Rail Injector Fouling Test
The EN590 diesel used is the standard reference fuel for this test. This was compared to the same EN590 diesel dosed at 200:1 with 2-stroke oil. Figure 4 shows that the zinc content for this fuel was 0.135ppm, and EN590 diesel contains no zinc. Figure 6 shows the results of the injector fouling test. Regular diesel contains no zinc and causes almost zero flow loss in the test. Injector fouling test fuel, which is artificially dosed to 1ppm zinc as depicted in Figure 4, typically results in around 6% flow loss in the same test. The results show that fuel flow is reduced by 2% over the 16 hour engine test when 2-stroke oil is mixed with diesel.
This also results in an engine power loss of 2%. This result is therefore not surprising as even trace amounts of zinc can cause injector fouling in modern engines (Leedham, 2004).
Injector deposits form gradually over time. If they don’t strongly bond to the injector they can break off under the forces of the fuel flow and thermal contraction of the injector. This is why in this test procedure, the engine is stopped and allowed to cool after 8 hours before being restarted. This explains the increase in fuel flow at the 8 hour midpoint in the test. Metal based deposits, such as those caused by zinc, bond very strongly to the injector nozzle and build up continuously. These are permanent and not removed by cold starting. It follows that regular use of 2-stroke oil in diesel could result in substantial injector fouling over the lifetime of a diesel engine. Furthermore, in modern vehicles with exhaust gas after treatment systems, zinc and other metal contaminants collect in the diesel particulate filter (DPF) and do not burn off when re-generated, thus blocking it over time.

[Gazwould]

None of this relates to mineral spec JASO FB , JASO FC is a semi or full synthetic , JASO FD always a synthetic , so we can't ascertain any zinc levels , if anything they will be lower because FC and FD are higher spec 2 Stroke oils .

Being semi or synthetic they will resist burning more thus leaving deposits .

As for a cetane improvement how else would you account for a quieter engine due to less diesel knock , I saw a few years ago a cetane booster test , some worked , some didn't , 2 Stroke did !



It's extremely rare for 1.9 PD 130 injectors to fail , more common is the injector harness or worn camshaft from poor servicing .

I know plenty of 130 PD's on JASO FB 2 Stroke without issue for years , in Sweden they've been doing it for 30+years .

Mines been on it for 4 years and on 180k now , and notice the benefits including a halfing of MOT Boston machine smoke opacity tests due to better timed combustion because of the cetane improvement .

The correct mineral 2 Stroke benefits are used and felt all over the world , it's being used in small amounts as 200:1 dilution rate so a few hundred ml's to a tank and not a full tank of sunflower oil where I haven't come across another user in another VAG forum user over four forums in 5 years !

Anyway I'll leave you with some actual forum posts from elsewhere as it's everywhere , real people , real observations .

"Well I tried some in half a tank of fuel, just erring on the side of caution. The engine is one hell of a lot quieter and seems smoother too. The fuel trip actually gave me an extra 3mpg over a 100 miles trip.

I don't think it's the placebo effect as I'm a born cynic."




" I used to use a 200ml shot of Mineral 2 Stroke Oil every fill up in my old, non-DPF Ford Focus. It literally transformed the way the car ran when using cheap ASDA diesel.

When I got the Merc I did quite a lot of research on the topic, most notably regarding ASH levels, however, while all oils list their JASO standard it was near impossible to get the exact ash content levels - just that it was within the allowed level by the given standard, which was still way too high if near the upper limit.

I did find oils that were perfectly fine, as I managed to source information on the exact ash levels. However, these oils were not readily available for purchase.

In the end, after more research, I started using Millers Eco-Max - just a small ~75ml shot per tank - which seems to work ok. I'm not seeing the huge differences I noticed with my Focus using cheap diesel + 2 Stroke Oil, but then I do always try to use good fuel such as Shell V-Power or BP Ultimate. However, the two times I was obliged to use ASDA Diesel, I used a 100ml shot of Millers and the car drove nicely. Note: in my Focus, ASDA Diesel and NO 2 Stroke = a noisier, smokier and less responsive car. I was truly shocked how different the car was on ASDA diesel with and without 2 Stroke.

My friend, who does a lot more mileage than me, tried some Millers and was a total convert, he notices a marked decrease in MPG when he doesn't use it.

Personally, I think the higher-end fuels have sufficient additives already - I noticed that my Focus on V-Power performed similarly to the ASDA + 2 Stroke combo in regards mpg, smoke and noise.

However, Millers does still increase the Cetane rating of the fuel slightly which does seem to give a slightly improved mpg in like for like driving. Plus I get that warm and fuzzy feeling knowing injectors and seals are being treated nicely.

If I ever got another non-DPF equipped Diesel, I'd switch back to Mineral 2 Stroke oil in a heart beat.

Edit: Just to add, when I did my initial 2 Stroke Oil research years ago, there was quite a debate of Mineral vs. Semi-/Full-Synthetic. The thinking was that as we're burning the oil rather than using it directly as a lubricant, Mineral Oil was the better choice. Semi and Fully-Synthetic Oils were designed to resist burning and, when burnt with the fuel, could leave deposits. One of the issues was, that it could take tens of thousands of miles before any such deposits posed a problem. So, there were lots of replies such as "I've used it for 100's of miles, it's fine", when only a full strip-down could actually tell you if that's true. Personally, I chose to err on the side of caution and use Mineral Oils only.

Interesting point re: 2 Stroke Oil in my Focus. Like I said, I'd put a 200ml shot in per fill-up, this became habit for me. When I sold the car to a friend, I informed of this, but he didn't quite get it. After about a month of owning the car, he contacted me to say it'd suddenly got noisier and he was seeing smoke under acceleration. After some initial worry this was a sign of an impending BIG issue, it turned out he'd not been adding in 2 Stroke when filling up (I'd left him some). The car wasn't empty, but he went to top-up and added 2 Stroke, and the car was back to it's old self again."

[Vagnuts]

None of this relates to mineral spec JASO FB , JASO FC is a semi or full synthetic , JASO FD always a synthetic , so we can't ascertain any zinc levels , if anything they will be lower because FC and FD are higher spec 2 Stroke oils .

Being semi or synthetic they will resist burning more thus leaving deposits .

As for a cetane improvement how else would you account for a quieter engine due to less diesel knock , I saw a few years ago a cetane booster test , some worked , some didn't , 2 Stroke did !



It's extremely rare for 1.9 PD 130 injectors to fail , more common is the injector harness or worn camshaft from poor servicing .

I know plenty of 130 PD's on JASO FB 2 Stroke without issue for years , in Sweden they've been doing it for 30+years .

Mines been on it for 4 years and on 180k now , and notice the benefits including a halfing of MOT Boston machine smoke opacity tests due to better timed combustion because of the cetane improvement .

The correct mineral 2 Stroke benefits are used and felt all over the world , it's being used in small amounts as 200:1 dilution rate so a few hundred ml's to a tank and not a full tank of sunflower oil where I haven't come across another user in another VAG forum user over four forums in 5 years !

Anyway I'll leave you with some actual forum posts from elsewhere as it's everywhere , real people , real observations .

"Well I tried some in half a tank of fuel, just erring on the side of caution. The engine is one hell of a lot quieter and seems smoother too. The fuel trip actually gave me an extra 3mpg over a 100 miles trip.

I don't think it's the placebo effect as I'm a born cynic."




" I used to use a 200ml shot of Mineral 2 Stroke Oil every fill up in my old, non-DPF Ford Focus. It literally transformed the way the car ran when using cheap ASDA diesel.

When I got the Merc I did quite a lot of research on the topic, most notably regarding ASH levels, however, while all oils list their JASO standard it was near impossible to get the exact ash content levels - just that it was within the allowed level by the given standard, which was still way too high if near the upper limit.

I did find oils that were perfectly fine, as I managed to source information on the exact ash levels. However, these oils were not readily available for purchase.

In the end, after more research, I started using Millers Eco-Max - just a small ~75ml shot per tank - which seems to work ok. I'm not seeing the huge differences I noticed with my Focus using cheap diesel + 2 Stroke Oil, but then I do always try to use good fuel such as Shell V-Power or BP Ultimate. However, the two times I was obliged to use ASDA Diesel, I used a 100ml shot of Millers and the car drove nicely. Note: in my Focus, ASDA Diesel and NO 2 Stroke = a noisier, smokier and less responsive car. I was truly shocked how different the car was on ASDA diesel with and without 2 Stroke.

My friend, who does a lot more mileage than me, tried some Millers and was a total convert, he notices a marked decrease in MPG when he doesn't use it.

Personally, I think the higher-end fuels have sufficient additives already - I noticed that my Focus on V-Power performed similarly to the ASDA + 2 Stroke combo in regards mpg, smoke and noise.

However, Millers does still increase the Cetane rating of the fuel slightly which does seem to give a slightly improved mpg in like for like driving. Plus I get that warm and fuzzy feeling knowing injectors and seals are being treated nicely.

If I ever got another non-DPF equipped Diesel, I'd switch back to Mineral 2 Stroke oil in a heart beat.

Edit: Just to add, when I did my initial 2 Stroke Oil research years ago, there was quite a debate of Mineral vs. Semi-/Full-Synthetic. The thinking was that as we're burning the oil rather than using it directly as a lubricant, Mineral Oil was the better choice. Semi and Fully-Synthetic Oils were designed to resist burning and, when burnt with the fuel, could leave deposits. One of the issues was, that it could take tens of thousands of miles before any such deposits posed a problem. So, there were lots of replies such as "I've used it for 100's of miles, it's fine", when only a full strip-down could actually tell you if that's true. Personally, I chose to err on the side of caution and use Mineral Oils only.

Interesting point re: 2 Stroke Oil in my Focus. Like I said, I'd put a 200ml shot in per fill-up, this became habit for me. When I sold the car to a friend, I informed of this, but he didn't quite get it. After about a month of owning the car, he contacted me to say it'd suddenly got noisier and he was seeing smoke under acceleration. After some initial worry this was a sign of an impending BIG issue, it turned out he'd not been adding in 2 Stroke when filling up (I'd left him some). The car wasn't empty, but he went to top-up and added 2 Stroke, and the car was back to it's old self again."

As for a cetane improvement how else would you account for a quieter engine due to less diesel knock---same way I account for it the now-veg we bit(yeh ok-good bit thicker(tho when its up to 70degrese it just same as diesel, so beter lube of valve seats !!)) same as the 2stroke-just beter lube for valve seats !! give your 2strk a miss one time and through tem twenty ltrs veg in it and come back and tell me that it not quiet and feel beter all round !! My tank ifs full at mo, an it take me a couple weeks too need refill--but as I said b4-I will give the 2strk a try an let ya know what/how it compares--and yes I did get the speck of oil wrong-ie JASO FC--instead of FB, but it was still a proper test--!!!

[Gazwould]

I saw the cetane booster product test and 2 Stroke was a positive result for cetane .

How else do you account for a few more mpg , the only way is the fuel compression ignition timing is more optimal , like Octane is to the petrol engine .

The real test is out in the field and it works , for many people and vehicles all over .

If a lab rat study was unfavourable towards sunflower oil , according to your personal findings it wouldn't stop you using it !

I would only ever put a few litres of sunflower in summer , when I used veggie it diesel knocked for a few minutes and certainly wasn't any quieter than norm when warm , like I said I killed a Pug derv pump running 100% veggie , it was summer but it didn't like the cold start up , it was the increased viscosity that killed it , started ******* out of the pump , I should of run 50/50 , not a car I missed driving the 106 1.4D na , as flat as a pancake and roll like a 2CV .

[Vagnuts]

I saw the cetane booster product test and 2 Stroke was a positive result for cetane .

How else do you account for a few more mpg , the only way is the fuel compression ignition timing is more optimal , like Octane is to the petrol engine .

The real test is out in the field and it works , for many people and vehicles all over .

If a lab rat study was unfavourable towards sunflower oil , according to your personal findings it wouldn't stop you using it !

I would only ever put a few litres of sunflower in summer , when I used veggie it diesel knocked for a few minutes and certainly wasn't any quieter than norm when warm , like I said I killed a Pug derv pump running 100% veggie , it was summer but it didn't like the cold start up , it was the increased viscosity that killed it , started ******* out of the pump , I should of run 50/50 , not a car I missed driving the 106 1.4D na , as flat as a pancake and roll like a 2CV .

Hey I'm not knocking anything here, as for the pug the pump would have been a CAV/Lucas pump and they never did like the veg, I'v seen quite a few die --hahaha, I aint trying to argue with you, in fact just the opposite, I like the banter regards this -- and as said be4 I will at the first opportunity be giving it a try !!!!

[Gazwould]

I'm not either , it just feels like I've entered a rabbit hole and the whole dpf debacle is for nothing because they should just of used cleaner burning sunflower oil as fuel...