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Thread: A6 (2007) - Annoying Electrical Issues - all connected?

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  1. Re: A6 (2007) - Annoying Electrical Issues - all connected? 
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    LED bulbs can throw the car haywire as well, the convience module needs updated if the car isn't supplied with them & you fit them
    VW POLO 2002 1.2 12v , Audi A6 2006 2.0 TDi SE , Skoda Fabia 1.4 TDi

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  2. Re: A6 (2007) - Annoying Electrical Issues - all connected? 
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    Hi RJS

    Assuming you have now completed the MMI sw update to 5570; and ruled out alternator problem by checking voltage achieved with and without load; and still are getting battery drain. There are a number of other classic causes of leakage current when car is meant to be "off", well covered in other posts on this brilliant forum. Off the top of my head the next ones to consider would be:

    Is there water ingress into passenger side footwell front and rear. If so, this can fry any components installed there eg phone/bluetooth module, and even if no components installed could cause leakage through the wiring loom in that area.

    Is water feed to rear screen washer intact in the AV compartment to LHS of boot. Early year models had a common problem with screenwash leaking and frying the amp, satnav or whatever. Does everything feel dry in there.

    Water leaks aside, are your radio, amp, DAB if fitted and satnav if fitted all healthy - again all in AV compartment. Amp seems quite common problem.

    I think - not so sure about this one - potential leaks of rear screen wash but actually at the connection to wiper/pump inside tailgate. I'd suggest ruling out the rest before faffing with this one though.

    My problem ended up being the DAB unit (I also fried the built in phone/bluetooth box due to water ingress but that's a whole different problem). Years on end of battery drain hassle, never had a problem again since swapping out the unit.

    FWIW I didn't bother trying to use child labour to monitor real time current level. I just progressively disconnected and reconnected the AV units and it was bleedin obvious when I got to the culprit, quiescent current faults immediately stopped. To do it this way though, you will need to buy one or more loopback connectors for the fibre optic loop - when you power down say the amp, the whole CAN bus loses fibre optic continuity and so you lose everything that uses it not just the thing you unplugged power from. These are literally just a loop of fibre with a connector each end and you plug them in place instead of the unit you removed, search online easy to find sellers.

    Finally regarding recoding replacement battery (I think you asked this, my brain is fried to so apols if this was another thread). Agree there are conflicting views, from what I experienced I think the vehicle will adapt its battery management over time as it sees changing performance even if you don't recode, but you'll get better results and will be kinder in long run to your new battery if you tell it it's new. However it seems to be quite clunky technology, so if you can't find a match in VCDS for your battery, just changing a digit in the current stored serial number is enough to kick the battery management into treating the battery as new.

    My vehicle is 55 A6 2.7TDI Avant quattro. Hope that helps.
     
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  3. Re: A6 (2007) - Annoying Electrical Issues - all connected? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by doubleohab View Post
    Hi RJS

    Assuming you have now completed the MMI sw update to 5570; and ruled out alternator problem by checking voltage achieved with and without load; and still are getting battery drain. There are a number of other classic causes of leakage current when car is meant to be "off", well covered in other posts on this brilliant forum. Off the top of my head the next ones to consider would be:

    Is there water ingress into passenger side footwell front and rear. If so, this can fry any components installed there eg phone/bluetooth module, and even if no components installed could cause leakage through the wiring loom in that area.

    Is water feed to rear screen washer intact in the AV compartment to LHS of boot. Early year models had a common problem with screenwash leaking and frying the amp, satnav or whatever. Does everything feel dry in there.

    Water leaks aside, are your radio, amp, DAB if fitted and satnav if fitted all healthy - again all in AV compartment. Amp seems quite common problem.

    I think - not so sure about this one - potential leaks of rear screen wash but actually at the connection to wiper/pump inside tailgate. I'd suggest ruling out the rest before faffing with this one though.

    My problem ended up being the DAB unit (I also fried the built in phone/bluetooth box due to water ingress but that's a whole different problem). Years on end of battery drain hassle, never had a problem again since swapping out the unit.

    FWIW I didn't bother trying to use child labour to monitor real time current level. I just progressively disconnected and reconnected the AV units and it was bleedin obvious when I got to the culprit, quiescent current faults immediately stopped. To do it this way though, you will need to buy one or more loopback connectors for the fibre optic loop - when you power down say the amp, the whole CAN bus loses fibre optic continuity and so you lose everything that uses it not just the thing you unplugged power from. These are literally just a loop of fibre with a connector each end and you plug them in place instead of the unit you removed, search online easy to find sellers.

    Finally regarding recoding replacement battery (I think you asked this, my brain is fried to so apols if this was another thread). Agree there are conflicting views, from what I experienced I think the vehicle will adapt its battery management over time as it sees changing performance even if you don't recode, but you'll get better results and will be kinder in long run to your new battery if you tell it it's new. However it seems to be quite clunky technology, so if you can't find a match in VCDS for your battery, just changing a digit in the current stored serial number is enough to kick the battery management into treating the battery as new.

    My vehicle is 55 A6 2.7TDI Avant quattro. Hope that helps.
    Hello Doubleohab

    Many thanks for posting, and my apologies for the delay in updating. I had delayed, as it took me a couple of days to get round to finishing the full MMI update. I had then wanted to fully charge the battery, completely clear all of the faults and then take her on a long-run which I did last Friday - some 200 miles or so.

    It all started well with no warnings on the dash at all! Halluah I thought - problem resolved! I had a very brief stop after just 3 miles to drop off some parcels and then restarted... the ******* oil level/temp sensor was back, straightaway at key-turn and remained there for the rest of the day/journey. ****!

    The car laid up last weekend and by Tuesday morning, I was called out as the alarm was going off. Neither of the keyfobs would open the doors or stop the alarm. I had to manually open the driver's door with the key, pop the bonnet and stick the charger on. From Friday evening, to Tuesday morning, the near enough brand new battery was pretty much flat, which is why the alarm seemed to be going off. Upon connecting the charger, the alarm went off again, but with the feed, I was able to disarm with the keyfobs. It took about 5-6 hours to charge it back to full.

    The next morning I thought I'd use the car. Result... no oil level/temp warning on the dash. This was very curious. Had the battery running pretty much flat somehow caused this to be cured? I drove the car another four or five times that day, and on every keyturn, no more warnings. I thought I'd leave things as they were to see what happens...

    Yesterday, I happened to do a slow key-turn, where you stick the key in, turn to Position 1 whilst I was fiddling with something. Whilst it was Position 1, the ******* oil level sensor was back! However, previously when this sensor warning has come on, it will stay illuminated in the top quarter of the centre of dashboard screen display for the entire journey. This time, after a few minutes, it disappeared and the radio station replaced it on the dash display. This is even more curious! Later that day, no warnings at all with the keyturn. ***?

    This morning, no warnings. So, I'm now starting to think that the car is self-healing... Like it did with the MMI problem before it that last about 4-6 weeks. Several car journeys during the course of today, and the oil sensor warning came on once in four journeys - so now it's just an "intermittent" fault!! I popped back into the Kwik Fit to arrange for the regas (compressor was replaced after I got the N280 regulator valve fault on VCDS), and am sitting in their waiting area tapping this out. Before coming in, I once again cleared all of the faults and it was littered with them - mostly from the Tuesday where the battery ran flat, and they were mostly low voltage or voltage related issues. After the code clear, for the first time, I had a completely clean VCDS code scan with no faults whatsoever.

    I drove straight to the KF and am hoping that the air-con will be working again once the refrigerant is back in the system.

    So.... What to make of all this?

    1 - It seems that the MMI update did not cure my battery drain issue. Ggggrrrrr. The battery drained from Friday evening to Tuesday morning. Effectively in about 76 hours or so whilst the car sat on the driveway.

    2 - I haven't yet had a chance to complete the various voltage readings from the battery. I will do though and will post up the results shortly.

    3 - I had one small event of water ingress into the middle of the driver's footwell only. It was a small patch after some very heavy rain. I cleared the sunroof channels, and it hasn't repeated. It hadn't occurred prior to then. Nothing on the passenger side at all though.

    4 - Funnily enough, I did have a failure of the rear washer jet feed pipe earlier this year. I found it, and as you rightly say, it was ******* water all over the silver heatsink at the top of the media stack in the rear boot compartment. This was found immediately, not used again until it was fully repaired. It now works perfectly and there is no water leak - however, I'm not ruling this out as being linked to when I had a 6 week intermittent issue with the MMI system, where it would persistently "mute" itself randomly and for seemingly random lengths of time (sometimes a few minutes right through to several days at it's worst). Resetting the MMI system whilst driving often cured it, however, it doesn't do it all anymore. The other possible cause of this, was the 3rd party loom that had been installed by a previous owner for the old Parrot system that I have since decommissioned. I have disconnected the Parrot cable loop from the cabling in the boot space, as the other thing I noticed was that the MMI "mute" problem started occuring the day after an ICE installer was looking at the boot space, and had been poking / pulling the loom around to see what was what in there. It was almost as if he had accidentally "disturbed" the cabling/loom somehow and caused a cable to break, or crack, that was sometimes connecting and at other times not - it did seem as well, that when the MMI "self-muted" that it was as we hit a pot hole or rut in the road, and another pothole or rut brought it back - it felt like an intermittent loose connection. Just a thought... The whole area is completely dry though, as there is no leak - but a very good suggestion!

    5 - MMI all seems to be healthy at the moment.

    6 - You've lost me at the suggestion of the "loopback connectors" to help pinpoint any dodgy components in the MMI system. I'm pretty handy, but I'm not seeing how to work this through, or what I actually need, or how to do it! I think I'm following what you're suggesting, but isn't there only the DVD/Sat nav unit, the amp and the glovebox CD player to potentially disconnect from the system one by one?

    7 - Thank you very much indeed for the tip on changing the serial number on the presently stored battery details in VCDS. I haven't yet sat down and worked out how to actually fiddle with the stored information yet, but will give this a go this evening when I get home. If I can't find a match, I'll try the serial number change idea.

    So, that's about where I'm at. It will be interesting to see if the oil level/temp sensor warning returns, after it seems to have petered into an intermittent problem, and now with the latest full code clearance. Again, my gut is still telling me that the old oil temp sensor that I removed was actually probably ok, (as is the brand new genuine unit that I fitted - ****!) and that the electrical/electronic problem is somewhere else in the system. My gut also tells me that whatever the genuine cause is, it's probably also going to be behind what's causing the N280 regulator code fault on the compressor also. I just find it unlikely, that these two units, that are right next to one another, and both "failed" within 12-15 hours of one another according to VCDS when it all originally went wrong is just a coincidence!
    Last edited by rjsdavis; 30-09-2017 at 11:36 AM.
     
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  4. Re: A6 (2007) - Annoying Electrical Issues - all connected? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by niall campbell View Post
    LED bulbs can throw the car haywire as well, the convience module needs updated if the car isn't supplied with them & you fit them
    Thanks Niall

    The car doesn't have LED bulbs - it's a 2007, so just before they were introduced, and I haven't upgraded them either...
     
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  5. Re: A6 (2007) - Annoying Electrical Issues - all connected? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by niall campbell View Post
    with your engine running for 20 minutes, pop the bonnet and feel the positive jump start terminal. WARNING This may be very hot

    My jump start terminal was causing a resistance and almost set the car on fire. It was stopping 2.5 volts getting to the battery from the alternator & vice versa in not giving enough juice to the starter
    Thanks for this also Niall

    There's definitely no heat or resistance from the jumper posts in the engine bay. All seems fine with these...
     
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  6. Re: A6 (2007) - Annoying Electrical Issues - all connected? 
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    So... to update onto my large post from higher up...

    I left KF with a working air-con system. The chap walked in and told me that he had regassed and pressure checked the system, as well as adding the UV dye. He confirmed that there were no leaks, that the system was holding good pressure, but that it still wasn't working. He had reached the end of what he could do.

    Spoke to the branch manager about next steps, and he rang one of their "Master Techs" from another branch. The MT suggested attaching the branch computer to it, and resetting the HVAC system. The engineer had just started to do this, when one of the other idiotic fitters reversed a mini into my car! I was then distracted dealing with that with the Branch Manager and didn't watch what the engineer did next, but it was some sort of system "reset". Long story short - he reported 4.4 degrees of coldness and a working A/C system! As it was under warranty, there was no charge - result.

    Branch Manager saw my car get whacked and has agreed to repair it. That was also a result as the OSR corner of the rear bumper was already damaged and scuffed so I'll get all of this stuff done at the settlement of KF. Another result.

    So.... did it last? Did it ****.

    I'm not exactly sure how long it lasted. I suspect until the next engine off/restart sequence, but the air-con has now stopped working again. FECKFECKFECKFECKFECK!

    The Oil Level/Temp sensor has also popped back up two times in the last six engine starts, so still intermittent! I still can't work out why this was permanent, and is now intermittent. Clearly, to me, this is not the sensor at fault but something else - could it be some part of the ECU or other control module that the Oil Temp sensor feeds its data into? Could it be, by chance, that the air-con compressor regulator and oil temp sensor both feed their data into the same control module? That would make sense to me, and that it was some sort of control module that was at fault here...

    This would also explain how the air-con system clearly does work, but that something, somewhere else in the system is causing it to fail, which seems to be an electronic issue rather than a regulator fault. I'll bet, just as with the oil temp sensor, that the previous compressor was also working just fine and it was this same electronic fault at the heart of it!

    Does anyone know enough about the electronic systems to suggest where the data from these units goes?

    Also - does anyone know what this guy did to "reset" the HVAC system? It feels like it's different to simply a code clearance, but I could be wrong. Is this something I could do with VCDS?
     
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  7. Re: A6 (2007) - Annoying Electrical Issues - all connected? 
    #27
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    do the wires join up into the same wiring loom ?

    If so , can you trace the wires back to where they go to ?

    At some point they must go into the bulkhead and probally to one of the boxes under the windscreen

    There are 2 boxes that I know off hold the electrics in the scuttle area. The big one on the left/ drivers side from front of car looking at windscreen, is the main electric box. The jump posts lead back to this box.

    The one on the right or passenger side is possibly where your wiring leads back to/ may even hold the ecu

    I would take off the wipers, remove plastic trim and unhook from the windscreen. Then with a torx bit take off the covers for these boxes and look for any green gunge, mould etc

    when you are there, remove altogether the drain bungs which are rubber. Then gently hose the scuttle area and lift cables to wash any crap out

    If the area doesn't have any green gunge, mould etc ................................. I think you either put in a new oil level sensor ( because new doesn't always mean they work ) and cheapest option OR you look at replacing wiring from sensor and A/C back to ecu

    My VAg505 , cheap as it is, will allow me to do a full system test on the car, taking maybe 20 minutes. VCDS should do the same . I can select individual testing of say the Heating System or just let it run. I would say just let the VCDS do a full scan. Alas I don't have vcds
    VW POLO 2002 1.2 12v , Audi A6 2006 2.0 TDi SE , Skoda Fabia 1.4 TDi

    All 3 cars in the current fleet
     
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  8. Re: A6 (2007) - Annoying Electrical Issues - all connected? 
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    Thanks for the reply Niall. I've been holding off replying, as I appear to be witnessing a miracle....

    Last week, again, the car was unused for a couple of days (from last Tue eve-Fri). I went to drive it last Friday morning and it was just completely dead. This time however, the alarm didn't go off. I used my mother's Golf which I handily had to hand and just left it charging.

    Left it charging on and off for the next three days before I needed to use it again (it didn't take three days to charge it!!). I'd simply keep an eye on it, when it was full, turned it off, and topped it up again a day or so later to stop it from draining back down as I clearly seem to have a battery drain issue.

    HOWEVER, went to drive it this Tuesday morning to go off and do some stuff. The battery was low and it gave me a "low battery" warning as I started it. However, as I was using it for most of the day, it largely charged itself back up. However, this is where it gets very strange and interesting.

    First keystart, I had the Oil Level/Temp sensor ping off again. Bummer I thought... I had a short journey with a stop. Second keystart it disappeared and there were no warning lights on the dash at all. This was strange.

    I also noticed that the air-con was working, as I left it on a low temp setting and I was getting cold! I turned it down to LO and it was like a little icebox! W T F is going on here then?

    For the rest of Tuesday, I probably had a further ten stops and keystarts. No return of any faults or warnings. Air Con continued to work.

    Wednesday, I was out and about again, and dreaded the first keystart of the day... nothing. What joy! Ran around with a series of probably 6 or 7 keystarts during Wednesday. No recurrence of the warnings and the air-con continued to work.

    I didn't want to type anything onto here, as I didn't want to curse my new found luck - but the W T F? I just don't understand what's going on. It cannot be that the car is self-healing... although the MMI issue did resolve itself with no intervention from me at all. It's as if, if you leave the problem long enough, it just goes away. I know exactly how ridiculous that sounds! Today - about three runs and keystarts in the evening. Still no further warnings, and aircon still working!

    What does this tell me?

    It tells me that the compressor is good, working, and is holding good pressure for one. When it gets knocked out and reports the N280 voltage regulator fault, I'm still convinced that something else is tripping it. The fact that the Oil Level/Temp sensor is no longer reporting a fault (as it shouldn't as it's brand new and just been fitted) is very, very weird, and I remain convinced that this too is being tripped by some other electrical gremlin.

    I'm going to keep using and driving it for the next few days and see what happens. I haven't even dared connect the laptop to it to read the codes, as I don't want to inadvertently mess with something that's working perfectly at the moment! However, if all remains well for the next few days, I shall stick VCDS on it and see what it reports. I reckon I would be hesitant to clear any faults, so I'd probably be inclined to leave it as it is for now, and clear faults if any of the warnings like the Glow Plug sensor or MAF sensor sending "implausble" readings returns.

    To come back to your suggestions, when we first fitted the new Oil Sensor and it triggered the fault again, the first thing my mechanic did was to pull of the wipers and get into the bulkhead fuse box in front of the passenger seat. He thought that was a relay, which, if blown, would account for the sensor and compressor being stopped - however, the fuse was fine. The inside of the box was also clean with no gunge or mould in it at all. The bulkhead is clear and isn't holding water, as I've already checked and cleared the drainholes in the bulkhead a few months ago.

    I like the suggestion of doing a full system test. I'm guessing that this is the same as a full "code read" in VCDS? I.e. you simply run an "autoscan" and it goes off and checks all of the various modules and comes back with a report of which ones have faults etc? This is what I do when I connect the laptop to the car anyway - and which pinpoints all of the systems with faults (so that you can then clear them individually, module by module, or do a full code clearance). I find that the full clearance doesn't always work, and that for some faults, like the N280 fault, you need to go into the HVAC module and clear it singularly.
     
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  9. Re: A6 (2007) - Annoying Electrical Issues - all connected? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by inspectorman63 View Post
    A small child locked in the boot works for this issue. Get the parents permission first....

    Your software is 42.2.0. 55.7.0 solves some of the battery drain issues (associated with the radio not turning off properly) and is well worth doing for 6 or so. 4L0-998-961 5570 is the part number. Takes 10 - 20 minutes to load up; if your battery is sad, have the charger connected to the charging terminal posts for this task or start with a fully charged battery. Don't rely on the "battery condition indicator" on the MMI screen - it's close to useless.

    You are looking for volts produced by the alternator when the engine is running, in order to eliminate an alternator fault giving you these flat battery symptoms symptoms. Absolute detail not important; if you can see anything over 13.5 V at the charging terminals under the bonnet when the engine is running it means the alternator is putting charge into the battery. Heavy loads like the heated rear screen being on or very low revs will give you slightly less.
    Hi I'm having battery drain issues too and I'm also on software version 4220 i think i read somewhere that I would need to update to a software version in-between 4220 and 5570 is this right? If so i need to find out which one
    Thanks
     
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  10. Re: A6 (2007) - Annoying Electrical Issues - all connected? 
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    5570
     
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