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Thread: red steering wheel warning icon after long drive. Self-seversible after some engine OFF time...

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  1. red steering wheel warning icon after long drive. Self-seversible after some engine OFF time... 
    #1
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    Hi,


    I need some help with diagnose problem with power steering in Passat B6 2009 CR 104kW


    Issue:


    After long drive (more than 1.5-2h), turning off engine and turning on again causes:


    - red steering wheel warning icon
    - 3 sound beeps
    - power steering not working


    I can drive but without power steering.

    Power steering issue disappears itself after certain of time car idle with engine off.
    This time is roughly proportional to driving duration:
    2-3h of driving - 5..15min idle is needed.
    15h of driving - 1.5-2h idle is needed.


    When issue appears, I have following symptoms:


    -key inserted in „half”:
    1. yellow steering wheel warning icon.
    2. noticeable constant „trrrr” sound from steering column area.
    3. Clearly noticeable vibration on steering wheel.

    4. Trying to slightly turn steering wheel increases loudness of „trrr” sound.

    -key inserted „full” starts engine and:

    1. yellow steering wheel warning icon becomes red.
    2. I’m getting 3 sound signals.
    3. I can drive but without power steering.


    Unfortunately I don’t have VAG to read logs/errors so can’t be more detailed here)

    I’m asking as I want to avoid situations where e.g. authorized VW service i.e. will lenghtly hunting for root cause by part-by-part replacing parts of my car to finally discover where issue is…



    BTW: Personally I suspect issue is like electronic component (like electrolytic cap) reversibly loosing capacity under long period of operating with voltage.

    Loss of capacity seems to be proportional to duration under voltage (as duration of idle time needed to issue disappear is proportional to driving time) and effect is reversible (as issue disappears after about of time). Look like production defect with poor quality components….


    Another hypothesis is overheating - but for me it is less possible as for 1..2h of driving - just few minutes of idle is enough to issue disappears.




    Is this known issue in passat B6?

    If Yes - what should be fixed/replaced?

     
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  2. Re: red steering wheel warning icon after long drive. Self-seversible after some engine OFF time... 
    #2
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    Without a code scan you have no chance to find the fault.
     
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  3. Re: red steering wheel warning icon after long drive. Self-seversible after some engine OFF time... 
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    Hi Martin,

    Fortunately Yesterday I had situation when issue popped-up again and I connect ELM327 with ODBII software and there is….no any error reported at working engine with still present issue. I have also 2 other B6 owners with exactly the same issue and they also reported to me theirs service shops told them about no any errors logged by ECU (scan was post issue however).


    I have small MOV video showing problem:


    http://87.207.99.117/steering-malfunction.MOV.zip


    At 0:04 key is inserted half. You can start to hear constant „trrr”. There also started clearly noticeable constant vibrations on steering.


    At 0:10 I trying to drive a little steering. You see „trrr” sound and steering vibrations are noticeable magnifying. More such moves ends with 3 sounds and red steering icon.


    At 0:15 I started engine. It starts OK.


    At 0:18 red steering icon pops-up.



    I’m wonder what You think about this…

    I’m starting to think hot to approach problem.



    Do You know where I can find details about EPS system used in B6?
    I think it is electrical system (EPS) - but is it dual-pinion type or…


    Anyway - I'm thinking about candidates to look more closely.
    I think electronic domain should be target.

    Probably best candidate is EPS control unit. Is it detachable from steering rack/complex?

    Any pictures, documentation is much welcomed here :-)
    Maybe I should detach it, visually inspect and i.e. replace all electrolytic caps?


    Second candidate might be steering force sender subsystem. It is tensor based?

    Third idea is wheels position/angle sensor….



    What You think?

     
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  4. Re: red steering wheel warning icon after long drive. Self-seversible after some engine OFF time... 
    #4
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    You need a proper code read, an OBDII scanner will not show steering codes. The steering system on a 3C is a completely self contained unit and most failures mean fitting an exchange rack, we fit ZF units supplied through Bosch.
    Anthropogenic climate change, the biggest con inflicted on mankind since religion...

    Slava Ukraini
    !


     
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  5. Re: red steering wheel warning icon after long drive. Self-seversible after some engine OFF time... 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crasher View Post
    You need a proper code read, an OBDII scanner will not show steering codes.
    Thx for Your replay. I'm in learning mode (electronics by profession; low-level programmer so hope learn quickly :-) )

    Is this mean that I can still access it via main service socket but special software is needed (and probably with RAW comm. mode to get data from EPS sub-system)?


    Quote Originally Posted by Crasher View Post
    The steering system on a 3C is a completely self contained unit and most failures mean fitting an exchange rack, we fit ZF units supplied through Bosch.
    Is it mean that EPS has dedicated diagnostic socket and dedicated software+tool to diagnose is needed?
    Or rather I need to read on 3C area(or register) to get EPS diagnose info?

    When you saying "ZF units" - You mean electronics module of EPS or rather whole steering rack replacement (for $$$) ?

    thx in advance for Your help!
     
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  6. Re: red steering wheel warning icon after long drive. Self-seversible after some engine OFF time... 
    #6
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    You need something like VCDS or in your case the Polish VAG CAN PRO system Contact Us which I want to get chance to try one day. As you have no previous experience of VCDS there is no need to use the American system and you could try the home grown one.
    Anthropogenic climate change, the biggest con inflicted on mankind since religion...

    Slava Ukraini
    !


     
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  7. Re: red steering wheel warning icon after long drive. Self-seversible after some engine OFF time... 
    #7
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    Ok - I managed to get diagnosis via VSA5054+Odis4.13.
    Output regarding steering power is like attached:

    stering-diagnosis.jpg

    (Full ODIS reports is attached)

    I have VSA5054 - so if there are any additional tests/steeps needed - pls suggest. I can do them.

    I'm wonder: is it possible that it is wiring issue or rather J500 is to replace?

    thx in advence for help!
     
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  8. Re: red steering wheel warning icon after long drive. Self-seversible after some engine OFF time... 
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    The control module is reporting electrical fault. This suggests a wiring fault to the module or the module is faulty.
    replace module?
     
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  9. Re: red steering wheel warning icon after long drive. Self-seversible after some engine OFF time... 
    #9
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    Right.
    A bit disappointing for me that so advanced system like ODIS is so generic with report about this issue.
    Wring vs. module replacement has significant difference in expenses...
    Sure - default suggestion to replace module is nice for VW as increases their incomes - but no nice for consumer (as maybe root cause of faulty connection will be fixed during in fact not needed replacement of not faulty module)

    Anyway: does any one has experience about how ODIS reports for: a\faulty module and b\wiring issue?
    Do ODIS reports above 2 different cases differently or rather report is exactly the same for both types of failure?
     
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  10. Re: red steering wheel warning icon after long drive. Self-seversible after some engine OFF time... 
    #10
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    Are you using Guided Fault Finding within ODIS?
    Anthropogenic climate change, the biggest con inflicted on mankind since religion...

    Slava Ukraini
    !


     
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