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Thread: Engine using oil, and dirty plugs is my turbo oil seal leaking?

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  1. Engine using oil, and dirty plugs is my turbo oil seal leaking? 
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    My 1996 A4 B5 1.8 T has done only 30,000 miles, but uses quite a lot of oil, and the spark plugs always have oily carbon deposits on them. It is also slow to start, taking 2 or 3 seconds cranking before it fires, whether the engine is hot or cold.

    The oil consumption has been about 1 litre per 2,000 miles since I bought the car early last year, with 25,000 miles on the clock.

    Re. Slow starting.

    In case this is due to a faulty engine temperature sensor causing a rich starting mixture, I checked indicated coolant temperature with my VAG 1552. It shows the temperature as ambient before starting, and gradually rises in a normal way.
    I recently replaced the thermostat, and the temp. gauge shows 90 when driving.

    I put in new spark plugs, but this made no difference.

    In case the N80 valve is faulty, causing the EVAP canister to discharge into the inlet during starting, causing a rich mixture, I blocked the hose from the N80 valve to the air inlet, but this made no difference during several starts.

    Re. Oil on plugs/consumption

    As mentioned in previous posts, I removed and checked the PCV valve for the crankcase. It is working properly, and there is no positive crankcase pressure evident when I remove the oil filler cap at idle.

    Today I measured compression pressures with the engine hot, all plugs removed and HT coils and injectors disconnected, expecting possible low values to indicate excessive blowby, but values are way above minimum.
    Specs are: Minimum pressure 7 Bar, maximum variation 3 Bar.

    Results: Cyls 1 to 4: 13.3, 13.8, 13.8, 13.9 Bar.

    All the above seems to indicate that the engine is OK, so is it likely that the plug oiling and oil consumption is due to a failed turbo oil seal?
    1996 A4 Avant 1.8T engine code AEB automatic with 51,000 kms - 32,000 miles.
    VW T25 Camper, Alfa 33 1.4 ie, Alfa Sprint 1.5 QV, 2 Alfa 33's for parts.
     
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  2. Re: Engine using oil, and dirty plugs is my turbo oil seal leaking? 
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    Good compression doesn't mean that the piston oil rings are not seated, a better indication of this is to use a cylinder leak down gauge but that is more involved, a low mileage on that age suggests possible bad storage, short running times etc and these can cause bore wash which glazes the bores and stops the piston oil rings working. Check in the turbo outlet pipe at its lowest point, if it only has a little wetness then the oil isn't coming from the turbo compressor shaft and into the intake. Technically speaking a turbo shaft doesn't have seals, they use steel piston rings, just to confuse...
    Last edited by Crasher; 10-07-2017 at 10:26 AM.
    Dark was that day when Diesel conceived his grim engine that begot you, vile invention, more vicious, more criminal than the camera even, metallic monstrosity, bale and bane of our culture, chief woe of our Commonweal. How dare the Law prohibit hashish and heroin yet license your use, who inflate all weak inferior egos? Their addicts only do harm to their own lives: you poison the lungs of the innocent, your din dithers the peaceful, and on choked roads hundreds must daily die by chance-medley. Nimble technicians, surely you should hang your heads in shame. Your wit works mighty wonders, has landed men on the Moon, replaced brains by computers, and can smithy a "smart" bomb. It is a crying scandal that you cannot take the time or be bothered to build us, what sanity knows we need, an odorless and noiseless staid little electric brougham.

    W.H. Auden (1907-1973), A Curse:
     
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  3. Re: Engine using oil, and dirty plugs is my turbo oil seal leaking? 
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    Thanks for that, Crasher. Badly seated oil rings due to low mileage from new seems very probable; the car never seems to have been used much, and was certainly stored for much of its life.

    Somewhere in my brain I knew turbo oil seals are metal

    The first owner died some time ago, probably around 2001, and his widow drove it even less, if at all.
    It seems it was used by her nephew, but not registered in his name until he sold it to me last year.
    It costs about 200 to register it, so he didn’t do this until he sold it to me.

    Here are the dates, mileage and mileage since previous service (converted from km) from the service history booklet which came with the car. The last item was done by myself.

    29/04/96 Delivery service
    15/05/97 12mth 4723 4723
    12/08/98 12mth + Int 8210 3487
    01/10/99 12mth + Int 9886 1676
    10/10/01 12mth 13948 4062
    21/02/05 ? 17683 3735
    08/07/08 ? 19641 1959
    13/02/16 All items 26883 7242

    It seems glazed bores are the most probable cause of the oil being burnt.
    I checked inside of the pipe from the intercooler to the inlet manifold when I was replacing the belts. It had a slight film of oil on it, but was not dripping with oil.

    I’m getting a bit crippled, old, and lazy, so I’m not going to drag the front of the car off yet again to check the turbo right now. Everything runs nicely and very quietly, plenty of power, so maybe I’ll just stop taking it apart to find out why it runs so good – as my old uncle used to say, and hope the rings eventually seat themselves.
    1996 A4 Avant 1.8T engine code AEB automatic with 51,000 kms - 32,000 miles.
    VW T25 Camper, Alfa 33 1.4 ie, Alfa Sprint 1.5 QV, 2 Alfa 33's for parts.
     
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  4. Re: Engine using oil, and dirty plugs is my turbo oil seal leaking? 
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    You could try Millers Glaze Bust oil and then run it on Motul 4000 15w/40 mineral oil until/if it settles down, it has worked for me on a number of occasions.
    Dark was that day when Diesel conceived his grim engine that begot you, vile invention, more vicious, more criminal than the camera even, metallic monstrosity, bale and bane of our culture, chief woe of our Commonweal. How dare the Law prohibit hashish and heroin yet license your use, who inflate all weak inferior egos? Their addicts only do harm to their own lives: you poison the lungs of the innocent, your din dithers the peaceful, and on choked roads hundreds must daily die by chance-medley. Nimble technicians, surely you should hang your heads in shame. Your wit works mighty wonders, has landed men on the Moon, replaced brains by computers, and can smithy a "smart" bomb. It is a crying scandal that you cannot take the time or be bothered to build us, what sanity knows we need, an odorless and noiseless staid little electric brougham.

    W.H. Auden (1907-1973), A Curse:
     
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  5. Re: Engine using oil, and dirty plugs is my turbo oil seal leaking? 
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    I managed to get the Glaze Bust at the end of August, but didn't get around to putting it in the engine until today. Following the data sheet instructions here LIQUID GLAZE BUST | Millers Oils - Advanced Lubricants, Oils and Fuel Additives

    As the total oil volume of my engine is so small (3.9 litres), and filling it to the minimum level without changing the filter, as instructed, took only 3 litres, I filled it to the maximum, which took 3.5 litres. I bought 8 litres of Glaze Bust, and am unlikely to need it again, so there seems no point in economising on it.

    We then drove briskly for about 40 miles on the main road, to a nice restaurant for Sunday lunch. I checked the oil level when we arrived, as I expected to be using more than usual, but the level had not changed.

    After eating (and only 25 cl of wine each) we returned via minor roads through the hills, so that there was plenty of gear changing for the auto box to do, and pulling away uphill after slow corners. Arriving home we had done about 80 miles. The oil level has still not noticeably dropped.

    The instructions say to keep running on it for maximum of 200 miles or until oil consumption reduces, but the engine is not using an appreciable amount of oil, so I am wondering whether I should continue the process until I reach the 200 miles, continue for less than that, or change to the Shell 15W40 mineral oil which I have ready.

    Am I likely to do any damage by leaving the stuff in any longer, Crasher?
    Last edited by FrenchAudi; 18-12-2017 at 05:48 AM.
    1996 A4 Avant 1.8T engine code AEB automatic with 51,000 kms - 32,000 miles.
    VW T25 Camper, Alfa 33 1.4 ie, Alfa Sprint 1.5 QV, 2 Alfa 33's for parts.
     
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  6. Re: Engine using oil, and dirty plugs is my turbo oil seal leaking? 
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    I would do the 200 ish, it is just that it lacks the cleaning agents normal oil contains. Finding mineral 10w/40 is proving VERY difficult.
    Dark was that day when Diesel conceived his grim engine that begot you, vile invention, more vicious, more criminal than the camera even, metallic monstrosity, bale and bane of our culture, chief woe of our Commonweal. How dare the Law prohibit hashish and heroin yet license your use, who inflate all weak inferior egos? Their addicts only do harm to their own lives: you poison the lungs of the innocent, your din dithers the peaceful, and on choked roads hundreds must daily die by chance-medley. Nimble technicians, surely you should hang your heads in shame. Your wit works mighty wonders, has landed men on the Moon, replaced brains by computers, and can smithy a "smart" bomb. It is a crying scandal that you cannot take the time or be bothered to build us, what sanity knows we need, an odorless and noiseless staid little electric brougham.

    W.H. Auden (1907-1973), A Curse:
     
    0 0 0
     

  7. Re: Engine using oil, and dirty plugs is my turbo oil seal leaking? 
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    Thank you. I will do as you suggest. I hoard all sorts of stuff, including oil

    I still wonder what to do with a gallon or two of Castrol 2T two-stroke oil I have. I bought it years ago, to experiment with adding it to the Ro80's petrol, and disabling the oil dosing pump (which feeds oil into the petrol at the carbs). It seemed to work OK with the oil:fuel ratio I chose, but I got nervous about myself or wife forgetting to add it when filling up, and reconnected the dosing pump.

    My feeling was that burning two-stroke rather than engine oil would cause less carbon build-up on the rotors, which was the main cause of sticking gas seals.

    Someone actually marketed a metered two-stroke oil injection system, with the oil pumped from a dedicated tank instead of from the engine lubrication system, but by then I had ditched the NSU engine and fitted a Mazda.
    Last edited by FrenchAudi; 18-12-2017 at 02:00 PM. Reason: change "in the combustion chambers" to "on the rotors"
    1996 A4 Avant 1.8T engine code AEB automatic with 51,000 kms - 32,000 miles.
    VW T25 Camper, Alfa 33 1.4 ie, Alfa Sprint 1.5 QV, 2 Alfa 33's for parts.
     
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  8. Re: Engine using oil, and dirty plugs is my turbo oil seal leaking? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrenchAudi View Post
    I had ditched the NSU engine and fitted a Mazda.
    ohh well, better than a Ford V4 which is what most people fitted
    Dark was that day when Diesel conceived his grim engine that begot you, vile invention, more vicious, more criminal than the camera even, metallic monstrosity, bale and bane of our culture, chief woe of our Commonweal. How dare the Law prohibit hashish and heroin yet license your use, who inflate all weak inferior egos? Their addicts only do harm to their own lives: you poison the lungs of the innocent, your din dithers the peaceful, and on choked roads hundreds must daily die by chance-medley. Nimble technicians, surely you should hang your heads in shame. Your wit works mighty wonders, has landed men on the Moon, replaced brains by computers, and can smithy a "smart" bomb. It is a crying scandal that you cannot take the time or be bothered to build us, what sanity knows we need, an odorless and noiseless staid little electric brougham.

    W.H. Auden (1907-1973), A Curse:
     
    0 0 0
     

  9. Re: Engine using oil, and dirty plugs is my turbo oil seal leaking? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crasher View Post
    ohh well, better than a Ford V4 which is what most people fitted
    It was a Mazda rotary engine, producing 175 HP instead of 115 from the NSU engine, with much lower fuel consumption, which is what NSU should have produced if VW/Audi hadn't ditched the Ro80 and taken over the factory in Neckarsulm.
    1996 A4 Avant 1.8T engine code AEB automatic with 51,000 kms - 32,000 miles.
    VW T25 Camper, Alfa 33 1.4 ie, Alfa Sprint 1.5 QV, 2 Alfa 33's for parts.
     
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