quiet tyres

[JohnF]

Hi, just discovered this forum after 20yrs of VW/Audi ownership [only 3 cars - 83 Passat GL5 Est, 15,000 - 195,000 90 2.0GL Est, 4,000 - 242,000 and now [after 400K from 2 second-hand Passats]a '98 A6 2.8E 77,000 - currently 92,000 - just nicely run in, should last me out......

It's due for a tyre change and I'd like the quietist tyres possible so would be grateful for any suggestions, please.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Hi JohnF

If you tell us what boots you are running ATM (make, size, load/speed rating), the driveline of your car, and more importantly, your driving style, we might be able to offer some advice.

Rdgs, TTFN

[SCBowden]

Hello JohnF,

Enjoy the Website.

A Local Tyre Dealer in Newton Abbot, who has always been very reliable and honest has always stated that the Pirelli P6000 range was one of the quietest tyres on the market.

I see from the post from Teutonic_Tamer there are other considerations to take into account.

Regards,

Steve

[skyeman]

Had Michelins on my 2.0 Bora, very noisey and terrible understeer!!!
Got Dunlops now much quieter and 100% better turn in.

[Sam]

I'm using Pirelli P6000 on a 2001 lowered Passat and couldn't be happier (with the tyres at least!)

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Hello JohnF,

A Local Tyre Dealer in Newton Abbot, who has always been very reliable and honest has always stated that the Pirelli P6000 range was one of the quietest tyres on the market.

I see from the post from Teutonic_Tamer there are other considerations to take into account.

Regards,

Steve

How do you know that your local tyre dealer is reliable and honest????

Is he a "tied" dealer, ie, one that is owned or franchised from a specific tyre manufacturer/company/importer? If he has closer dealings with Pirelli than with other manufacturers (and gets a better discount on Pirelli), then of course they will tell you that they are quieter/gripper/longer lasting/give better mpg/etc*** (*delete as appropriate to the question you ask for specific reccomendation). I know one dealer local to me who will push push push like hell to sell you Avons, because he is tied to Cooper/Avon (he could probably sell sand to Arabs!). To quote an other example, ATS (UK) and ATS/EuroMaster (mainland europe) is owned by Michelin, and are therefore going to be more competitive with Michelin, although (a) some indepentents can beat them on price sometimes, and (b) they are often open with their advice on all brands.

I personally would never use, nor recommend Pirelli tyres to anybody. I have two very good reasons to support that statement. I used to be a wholly independent tyre fitter in one of the largest Government employers in the country, which ran very large fleets of identical spec vehicles, from motorcycles, through passenger cars, 4x4s, light commercials, heavy commercials, PSVs, agricultural, plant, and specific duty vehicles. I, as well as my own personal experience, also had access to "top level" information on all aspects of fleet operation, including things such as: warranty issues, maintenance, factory modifications, accident damage data, fuel economy, etc, etc, etc.

Firstly, the tyre carcass on Pirellis is so weak that the UK re-treadders/re-moulders refuse to take Pirellis. You might very quickly reply to that by saying something like "I'd never, ever put remoulds on my car" (which would be a perfectly reasonable comment to make). I would advise you that the tyre carcass is basically the first and most important aspect of a tyres' construction, and therefore relates directly to performance, safety, longevity, etc. Quite simply, would the best, most stylish Armani suit look better on a perfectly formed supermodel, or on a bent, mis-shaped wire coat hanger which deforms even further when you try to hang the suit. This relates to the fact that you could have the best tyre tread design, and the best tread rubber compound - you see where I am going. This is critical, in the event of a slow puncture for example.

Secondly, I (and all of my working collegues at the time) experimented on different makes of new tyres on identical spec cars, and found a huge difference in perfomance, handling, and comfort. I would qualify that we never used budget tyres, only premium, first line brands, such as Michelin, Dunlop, Goodyear, Continental, Uniroyal, Pirelli, Firestone & Avon. In all of our opinions, based on "blind" testing, Pirellis came out bottom in all areas, with handling and comfort being particularly poor. Michelin and Continental repeatedly came out tops, with Uniroyal also performing particulary well in very wet conditions. I must emphasise that this wasn't a scientific or statistical test, and costs were never included, but merely a "seat of your pants" real world feel for the tyres. They were also based on /70 and /60 series profile tyres, and not ultra high perfomance ultra low profile tyres as used on modern high performance cars, such as today's S4, RS6, R32 etc.

To comment on "quiet" tyres in the /60 series profile ranges, in my opinion, the Michelin Energy tyre range is the quietest tyre in all round performance, whereas, Continental EcoContact is quieter than Mich Energy at straight line high speed cruise (such as motorways), but is noiser than Michelin Energy under hard braking and hard cornering.

For wide, high performance tyres, such as /45 or /40 profile tyres, I find that the new Dunlop SP SportMaxx (their very latest high performance tyre) is very lacking in aquaplaning resistance, has poor feel and stability when cornering hard (wet or dry), and is only mediocre <sp?> under straight line heavy requirements (hard acceleration/braking, again both wet and dry). The aquaplaning becomes particularly horrendous when the tread wears down to 5mm (yes - 5mm, there is still another 3mm to use!), from the original new 7mm! The Continental SportContact 2 is a very dependable tyre, performing quite satisfatorily in most areas, with very competent high levels of grip and stability when cornering in the dry (still acceptable in wet), satisfactory (but not excellent) resistance to aquaplaning, satisfactory straight line acceleration and braking (although an un-nerving tendancy to loose all grip under extremely harsh braking). The ride comfort could be described as quite harsh at slow speeds, or arrond town, but is better at (probably more suited to) high speed cruising - German Autobahns come to mind.

As you can see, there are many, many variables to consider when selecting tyres, and I dispare when I see people in the tyre dealers who say "I have the cheapest".

Ultimately, tyres are, without question, the most important component of your car, in a whole range of areas, including: safety, general handling, acceleration, braking, cornering, comfort, fuel economy.

One final point to remember with new tyres - under most circumstances, a brand new tyre, irrespective of the make, will usually "feel" better than your old, worn out tyres. (The "placebo" effect is a major factor in this issue).

Whoops - a second "final" point - the Pirelli P6000 is quite an old design, and is certainly NOT a fuel-saving (low rolling resistance, and therefore quiet) "energy" type of tyre.

Rgds

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Had Michelins on my 2.0 Bora, very noisey and terrible understeer!!!
Got Dunlops now much quieter and 100% better turn in.

What type of Michelin, and what type of Dunlop?

Any other differences to the vehicle between tyre changes, such as tracking/wheel alignment, brakes, suspension, different wheels etc.?

You probably don't get much motorway or high speed corners up there on the the lovely Isle of Skye

[skyeman]

Dunlop SP1, quite cheap too got them from internet nearly half the price that Kwik fit wanted. done 10k on them and still going strong.
Can't remember what the Michelin were but would never never buy them again!
I'll look out the name of the internet supplier, and re-post.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Dunlop SP1, quite cheap too got them from internet nearly half the price that Kwik fit wanted. done 10k on them and still going strong.

Isn't Dunlop SP1 quite an old tyre design? They certainly arn't listed on the Dunlop www - unless you meant SP Sport 01. I've only used these on Vx Corsas, and they seemed pretty good, if a little hard, but that means you'll get long life out of them.

I've never had any faith in KwikFit, they repeatedly damaged my alloys, and could never balance them dynamically. Even now, they are meant to offer a price match, but want a written quote - they never get my business!

Can't remember what the Michelin were but would never never buy them again!

You do surprise me - not liking Michelin. I know a lot of people steer clear of Michelin on price grounds, because you can always find another brand cheaper.

Do you know how "old" the Michelins were, because they may have simply age hardened and the rubber lost its elasticity. Tyres are really meant to be scrapped after six years of age, no matter how much tread is left, because of the natural degredation from the environment in general.

You can find the age of the tyre by looking for either a 3 or 4 digit number on the sidewall (sometimes on both sidewalls, somtimes on only one, so it may be on the innner sidewall). Usually, pre year 2000 will have a 3 digit, and 2000 onwards will be 4 digit. Two examples: 409 - means the tyre was made in week 40 of 1999, and 0303 means the tyre was made in week 3 of 2003. If the first two numbers are anything higher than 52**, then you are looking at the wrong number (as there are only 52 weeks in any year!). Ideally, no one should be using tyres with a 3 digit code (well, i'll forgive you until after Santa washes down his mince pie with some sherry) (Ping Stuart: what about some xmas smilies???)

I'll look out the name of the internet supplier, and re-post.

Was it either BlackCircles, or MyTyres? Not used either of them, but both seem quite competative.

TTFN

[VWTDIMAN]

Hello to everyone on what appears to be an excellent site.

Having owned VW Golfs now for over 10 years, I can safely say that the best tyres for me at any rate, not necessarily the cheapest, are MICHELIN. I had a MKIII GOLF GL TDi and this ran beautifully on E3A (195/60) Michelins. I would not knock Kwik-Fit. They provide a superb service and make every effort to look after your car. They also give excellent deals on Michelins and can match ATS Tyres easily for price. Main VW dealers tend to be expensive on tyre fitting and often recommend Continental or Pirelli (not sure why?....is it because these tyres are cheaper).

I recently bought a superb 04 reg MK V GOLF GT Tdi (140 BHP) and was amazed to see that the main dealer sold the vehicle to me with Euronic (or is it Eurotour??) 556 tyres on the front! I know it's not their responsibility to have good tyres on the car, but after spending close to £15,000, it surprised me. Clearly these were not on the car when sold new but, once I had the new Michelin PHP (Primacy High Performance) V rated (designed to run up to 149 mph) tyres 205/55/16V fitted, the car's performance thankfully transformed beyond belief. Road grip is truly superb even in the three inch downpour we had this weekend down here in Cornwall (early December 2006). Cornering is also amazing; the car holds the road like being on a rail.

Initially I had complained to our VW garage about a low frequency rumbling sound (1600 revs about 38 mph) in 4th Gear. After they introduced me to their version of the STIG (VW Chief Engineer who was brilliant....yes, he was) it transpired that this was not the car, it was the tyres!!! The two rear tyres were Continentals one with 3mm of tread and the other 7mm.

The Michelins set me back £332 all in (I opted for £24.95 additional payment to Kwik-Fit to carry out tracking.....and I watched them do it).

I suspect alloy wheels are prone to damage as when carrying out work Kwik-Fit use metal bars, presumably to stabilise the vehicle? Someone will tell me what these do. Kwik-Fit did not damage my 16" alloys but a small white mark (thin white line???) appeared on one; it may have been there before they took it for 2 hours.

So 4 x Michelin 205/55/16V tyres for £356.95 all in and that INCLUDED tracking. That 'feel good factor' has now come back after the rumble sound disappeared.

Michelin tyres are simply, in my opinion, the best on the market. Other opinions very welcome as I am new to what looks like an excellent VW/AUDI forum.

Martin (aged 48)