Top end engine rattle after Emissions Recall

**SGN** · 06-09-2016,09:59 PM

Originally Posted by Motorway

Our 2011 Passat Estate 2.0tdi 140 Bluemotion was in for service the other day. it was only an oil service and pollen filter change. i had also got the letter inviting me to have the emissions recall done.

before the car went in it was running great with no issues, and i did wonder if it was worth having the emissions recall work done. but the dealer assured me all the bugs had been sorted out and i should see no difference to the car. initially i did not economy did seem to be OK, about the same on local miles. not done a long run yet so cannot comment on that yet. however the engine did sound different straight away as soon as i drove out of the dealers. it was a hot day and aircon was running, the difference was a deeper exhaust note, similar to when the DPF is in re-gen mode, but without the increase in engine speed and cooling fan.

now the weather has cooled to the normal british summer temps aircon is not running as much and another noise has been noticed, it sounds like tappet noise. when you change gear in accordance with the shift change light the revs drop to approx 1200rpm you hear this tappety noice until the revs pick up to 1500approx. this noise is most noticable in town driving when you change from 3rd to 4th with a road speed of 30mph engine speed is just below 1200rpm and with light throttle the tappety noise is constant. with more throttle even at the same speed, i.e pulling uphil the noise goes away.

i have checked oil levels all OK and remover oil filler and plenty of oil is reaching top of the engine, i have also checked drive belt tension just in case the belt was slapping at this low speed (had this on a Landrover discovery).

as the service was just Oil filter and pollen filter there is nothing that the service routine could have done to make this change. the tappety noise was not there before the service. so i can only assume that the emissions recall (software update) must have caused this. does any of the knowledgable people know exactly what is adjusted on this software upgrade. my opiniion is there is some change in injection timing or valve timing or a combination of both to cause this noise. i could do with a bit more information before i go back with the car to the dealer.

any comments / help would be most appreciated

I could have written your post almost word for word for you.
I have exactly the same problem since the update, (2011 Golf 2.0 Gt TDI ) mine was done 2 weeks ago, as soon as I drove away I noticed the rattle and different driving characteristics, it was too late for me to go back they were closing as I left. I've lived with it for two weeks and it's really getting on my nerves, having to change down to stop it jerking, trying to keep revs up to stop the rattling.
Enough is enough.
I'll be on the phone at 1st thing tomorrow.

Cheers

**UMEL** · 07-09-2016,06:20 AM

My engine runs a dream now so on my future services I will tape notes in my engine bay and cabin, signed by the service manager...PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL THE EMISSIONS SOFTWARE PATCH. It is not compulsory and I choose not to have it done.

**The Accountant** · 14-09-2016,11:22 AM

Hello all
shame i did not read here before my last service 3 weeks ago. my passat was serviced and the emissions recall done at the same time. i did not notice the same day... as it was a warm day and the aircon was working hard to keep the car cool. but the following morning i did notice the rattle / clatter from the engine. like others have said the DPF seems to be re-generating itself every 150 miles MAX. but this is giving me an oportunity to do research. when the dpf regenerates as most of you here will know the engine speed increases to approx 950rpm at idle. not sure of the tech on this but whilst the re-gen is happening the rattle / clatter from the engine stops??. so exactly as Motorway has experienced. i will be back at the dealer tomorrow..

**rowdy-999** · 14-09-2016,08:24 PM

Originally Posted by The Accountant

Hello all
shame i did not read here before my last service 3 weeks ago. my passat was serviced and the emissions recall done at the same time. i did not notice the same day... as it was a warm day and the aircon was working hard to keep the car cool. but the following morning i did notice the rattle / clatter from the engine. like others have said the DPF seems to be re-generating itself every 150 miles MAX. but this is giving me an oportunity to do research. when the dpf regenerates as most of you here will know the engine speed increases to approx 950rpm at idle. not sure of the tech on this but whilst the re-gen is happening the rattle / clatter from the engine stops??. so exactly as Motorway has experienced. i will be back at the dealer tomorrow..

If I'm not mistaken, during DPF regen the engine runs 'richer'. I suspect either that or the higher revs counters the clatter.

**Europa25** · 14-09-2016,08:33 PM

As soon as this first hit the headlines, My immediate thought was - The engine has been designed and optimised to work in a specific way - any change is going to affect it.
Injector and ECU problems came to mind - are we going to see injector failures popping up next ?
I would like to see VW give an additional 2 year guarantee on any injector / ECU failure before I get mine done - and the option to revert if the car is affected or compensate.

Considering the lengths they have gone to in the USA , the offer for a 'free' upgrade / downgrade to this problem is mealymouthed.

I received my letter virtually guaranteeing absolutely no change to the engine whatsoever, stating that due to 'advances in technology' this is now achieveable.
I like the way they co-write the letter with the Driver and Vehicles standards Agency.

I'm very reluctant to see mine go in - in the same way I don't upgrade to new IOS on phones / PC's when problems arise!

My 2011 2.0 is silky smooth, sounds just like our TSi, and really quiet. We have an expensive new BMW and Audi in the street which sound awful in comparison.

I easily achieve 60+ MPG too, torque is still good 5 years on.

I'm going to ignore the letter for now - I want these problems ironed out, and a guarantee against injector / ECU failure issued too.

It's not good enough for a gigantic multi-billion £/€/$ company to say '2 of our engineers screwed up' , the CEO clears off and everyone is left to pick up or pay for the mess.

I thought it was too soon for a development, and a huge explanation is due and better reassurance.
It seems like damage limitation on the cheap via a politely worded letter.

I feel for you guys who cannot enjoy what is usually a great car, as much after this further added insult.
Keep taking your cars back until they get it right.

I had mine valued at the time of the 'scandal' , and if they really mess things up, they can buy it back.

I'm loathed to get rid of it, the B7 is a fantastic vehicle, spacious, quiet, economical, great to drive in all situations.
I'm sad that VW messed up big time over this issue, and have caused so much ongoing anxiety for owners of these vehicles.

An apology and a little tinker under the bonnet is not good enough. Safety is absolutely paramount, pleasure of owning one too - and the fact they have had 20-30k plus servicing costs of our hard earned money for a 'sold as' premium decent and safe product, then smacks the owners in the face with this situation looks terrible on the face of it.
VW, you should know a whole lot better, given the image you portray and the increasingly luxury marque you wish to claim.

**UMEL** · 14-09-2016,09:04 PM

I received my recall letter today from Alison Jones, Director of Volkswagon.

She says, I can confirm that there will be no change to your vehicle's engine performance, maximum torque or noise levels.

Pinking surely must be classed as a noise.

**luminfox** · 25-09-2016,03:08 PM

I complained to my local VW dealer about the top end engine rattle on my 2015 DSG Tiguan which only started after the the emission recall. They asked me leave the car while they checked various settings. A technician road tested the car and reported to the Service Manager that he did not notice any rattle.
I am not surprised because the rattle on my car only occurs at certain times, and through experience over recent weeks I am able to re-create these conditions.
For example from a standing start the car reaches 30 mph and the automatic gearbox has already changed up to 4th gear.
This is when the rattle occurs. Worse if I start on an incline with the engine under more load
When I returned to pick up the car from the dealer I was told to try filling up with Shell V Power fuel (£1.22/Litre) and report back to them. The Shell fuel has made no difference to the rattle so I will be taking the car in again next week, in particular to tell them that only using expensive fuel cannot be a solution.

**The Accountant** · 26-09-2016,10:12 AM

Originally Posted by The Accountant

Hello all
shame i did not read here before my last service 3 weeks ago. my passat was serviced and the emissions recall done at the same time. i did not notice the same day... as it was a warm day and the aircon was working hard to keep the car cool. but the following morning i did notice the rattle / clatter from the engine. like others have said the DPF seems to be re-generating itself every 150 miles MAX. but this is giving me an oportunity to do research. when the dpf regenerates as most of you here will know the engine speed increases to approx 950rpm at idle. not sure of the tech on this but whilst the re-gen is happening the rattle / clatter from the engine stops??. so exactly as Motorway has experienced. i will be back at the dealer tomorrow..

UPDATE TO MY EARLIER POST:-
went back to the dealer and they aske me to book the car in for half a day. i got a call from the engineer during the morning and he asked me what noise was he listening for. i described it to him only for him to call back half hour later saying he could not hear any noise... well i said i am not imagining it and certainly not imagining the amount of regeneration the dpf is doing. they called me at lunch to say car was OK to collect.

when i collected i asked for the service manager, he was / or seemed quite helpful he came out with me on a test drive and i simulated the noise for him. he did hear it and then got an engineer to take the car ito the workshop. they pugged it in to the laptop and the engineer came back and sid there was NO error codes. they said they would re run the new emissions software just in case of any problems, i asked about getting the original software put back. they said they could not do that. they said take the car drive it and report back. they suggested not using supermarket fuels. i dont anyway i always use ESSO whis has been fine for 5 years prior to the recall.

this i did and there is absolutly no difference..

i did however receive a disturbing email from a customer, he has a passat with the same engine as mine, whilst driving home last monday he heard the rattle from the engine as he had done since the recall 2500 miles ago. driving in heavy trafic 50mph he said after 40 miles the noise got progressivly louder. at the same time the temperature guage rose steadily from the usual 90c then he heard a bump from under the bonnet. and an instant loss of power. he coasted onto the hard shoulder, opened the bonnet and saw oil and water everywhere and the oil cap was off.

he had the car towed to an independant garage who investigated to find all valves badly burnt valve seats damaged most of the valves seized in their guides. the timing belt had snapped but only as a result of the top end siezure. the timing belt was done at the service. the garage said he had seen quite a few VW and Audi with the same failure all around 2000-3000 miles after recall. he said it is some error in the ECU map that is supposed to cure the NOX emissions. if he repairs the car he suggested a generic map more suited to the car.

the worrying part is i have done 2100 miles since recall an i driving on borrowed time?.