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Thread: V6 TDI Swirl Control

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  1. Re: V6 TDI Swirl Control 
    #21
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    Phil,

    What a very helpful, excellent post. I have read that others have had manifolds changed and costs of £2K mentioned. I wonder how many miles they would have to drive to recoup the cost in diesel saving.

    My fault codes are P2008 and P2011 which refers to banks 1a and 2a so there may be more for me to do.

    Since you did the repair have you noticed an improvement in fuel consumption? My car runs fine I just have to look at that little yellow light, and I can do 35mpg, but we are out in the sticks.

    I now have to get my head around the technology of twin tuned inlet manifolds, things seem to have progressed a bit since the Morris Minor.

    Regards, Michael
     
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  2. Re: V6 TDI Swirl Control 
    #22
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    Nice one Ditcha, let us know how you get on.

    Always more than one way to skin a cat.
     
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  3. Re: V6 TDI Swirl Control 
    #23
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    Thanks Michael.

    Yes, looks like both sides. Tho to be fair, once the bits are off to get to the motors, and the new rods are made up, it woudn't take that much more time.
    Its interesting that Bank two is playing up as well on yours, as this is further away from the hot turbo, which seems to cause the early demise on bank one.
    Have the control rods parted company completely, or is there just play in the linkage?

    No, no discernable difference in economy, about 30 on a motorway run, 25 round town. I was just concerned that the swirl flaps were stuck closed (which they were), impeding air flow to the cylinders.

    No, she ain't no Moggie, but economy's probably about the same, just 160 or so bhp better!!

    Phil
     
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  4. Re: V6 TDI Swirl Control 
    #24
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    Hello Phil,

    No I am only at the early stages, I came up with your thread after I found the fault codes and did a search, and have not given the engine a look yet. My wife has an A4 Cab with the same engine but as yet no fault codes. Her car OK much lighter than my Allroad usually does better than 40 mpg (with either of us driving), the last tank on my car only did 29 mpg (we live in a rural area with no traffic jams), both cars have 6 speed manual boxes (extremely rare in France on an Allroad, they are usually tiptronic), and whereas the tailpipes on the A4 are clean as a whistle, there is soot on mine so it cannot be burning the fuel efficiently. It should have been more efficient than my last A6 estate which was a 2.5tdi and that usually did about 37mpg.

    I will update you when I find out more, but thanks again for a very illuminating post.

    Regards,

    Michael
     
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  5. Re: V6 TDI Swirl Control 
    #25
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    Great job Phil, but did you actually cure the problem? My A6 Advant has had Bank 1 replaced in (Feb 2010) and now needs Bank2 fixing; remembering that 1 is on the driver's side and 2 passenger side. I have read many forum pages and there's a lot of confusion!!!!

    My car certainly has wear at the bottom ball-loint bearing which is of a different design to Bank 1. Diagnostics shows that the Duty cycle for Bank2 has an error of 8% ergo 80% demanded and 88% achieved. Although I see slackness in the mechanical parts; it would appear that the error code is Electrical and therefore the Motor needs replacing? My concern is that AUDI recommend the Manifold, motor and push-rod to be repalced to cure a raft of design errors and yes the parts price can be high, as much as £450 depending on where you buy!!! Worth looking on Ebay as NEW Assy can be sourced but check ASSY Part Numbers!! Latest TBC

    Bank 1 059 129 712BL (Right)
    Bank 2 059 129 711 CG (Left) - when viewing fwd from within car.


    Qs -
    Surely the Motor can be adjusted electronically to compensate for mechanical wear?
    AUDI should be doing more to assist owners!
    Crap design for a sub-system installed to improve fuel economy and yet costs through-life 10 times more then the savings!
    Watch out for old parts being sold on Ebay!
     
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  6. Re: V6 TDI Swirl Control 
    #26
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    Phil, thanks.
    I have just bought the bits from RS. Worth giving this a go before resorting to the expensive fix.

    How did the person earlier in this thread work out that there was a 2% tolerance in the software before it throws an MIL. If you can work that out, does it mean that you can change it?

    BTW, having read this thread I think the motor I bought off e-bay and returned as "not-working" might actually have been fine, it's the rod that's worn.
    Cheers, Rob
     
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  7. Re: V6 TDI Swirl Control 
    #27
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    Hello again Phil,

    I have to say that I am a bit mystified. Have checked the linkages and they seem fine, no noticeable up/down play, compared them to the engine in my wife's car which has no fault codes, and if anything they seem tighter on mine (my car 171000km/106000mls, my wife's 122000km/75600mls). The motors on a generally grubby engine seem very bright and clean and I wonder if they have already been changed. On revving the engine a bit the right hand side lever moved but the left didn't, so I thought that maybe the left motor was U/S but then when I watched when the ignition was turned on, both motors cycled open and closed so the motors must be OK. When I checked my wife's car (engine cold) both motors cycled open/closed when turning on ignition but when revved neither side opened, maybe that was because the engine was not up to temperature. When I deleted the engine codes on my car they immediately came back on. Is it likely that a sensor needs changing?

    Does anyone have any bright ideas?

    I look forward to hearing from you,

    regards, Michael
     
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  8. Re: V6 TDI Swirl Control 
    #28
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    I think you need to remove each push-rod in turn and make sure that the bottom arms are free to move and each side requires the same amount of force.

    My understanding is that the system is biased to the swirl flaps being Open and the motors drive the flaps Shut!

    Also please confirm that your Left and Right are looking from the inside of the car; ergo the Left is the drivers side!

    Once you know that the swirl-flaps and push-rods are not causing any delay to the motor pulse that is a demanded pulse should be achieved within the designed time then your fault lies with the Motor.

    If you are sure that the bottom bearings within the bottom manifold are healthy then you should in my opinion be able to replace the motor alone, but will need to find a VAG Garage that has the STW tool to set up the motor! Why a new motor does not come as a Plug and Go replacement is obvious but a example of how POOR Audi are and serves to prove how they rip-off their customers.

    Also, check that the pluds are connected firmly as others have found that loose pins have caused the feedback signal to generate a MIL condition!

    I ahve tried to engage with ECU people to see if the 2% tolerance wrt Demande and Achieved signals can be altered or the faults from Flap-Valve position rendered as a Hidden fault! No joy and AUDI again could have designed the swirl-flap position to have been logged only as they have for other more serious codes that the owner can't reset with say a Autel VAG 405 tool.

    Good luck, my A6 Avant 3.0 Tdi will probably need Bank 2 replacing at a cost of £651, the driver's side Bank 1 has previously been repalced.

    AUDI should be ashamed!!! What a crap system that was designed to improve fuel efficiency, my ***!
     
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  9. Re: V6 TDI Swirl Control 
    #29
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    It isn't just Audi, the BMW system gets sucked in and totals the engine.
    Anthropogenic climate change, the biggest con inflicted on mankind since religion...

    Slava Ukraini
    !


     
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  10. Re: V6 TDI Swirl Control 
    #30
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    Hello, Both bottom cranks seem to move as easily as each other, similar pressure on the units on my wife's car.

    I mean left and right when looking into the engine compartment, my car being LHD the turbo is on the passengers side. The default position on both cars is left hand side as you look at the car crank in the down position and on the right hand bank, crank in the up position. The motors move both freely when you turn the ignition on and return to their initial orientation.

    I have been able to remove both electrical connectors from the left hand motor and they seem clean but to remove the connector from the right hand side I would need to unbolt and raise the motor itself as there is not enough space to push the retaining clip on the connector.

    Surely if both motors are cycling (opening and closing, or as you suggest closing then opening) when you turn on the ignition, surely the motors are working?

    I attach a photo of the engine, you can see how much cleaner the manifold motors are than the rest of the engine. I think they may have been replaced recently.

    4Fmotor.jpg

    Regards,

    Michael
     
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