Q7 Underbody Damage

[pld118]

Good morning.

About 3 months ago I replaced all 4 tyres on my 20" S-line alloy wheels.

My local Audi dealer arranged for 2 tyres to be fitted via a well known national tyre company.

Around the same time, I arranged for the other 2 tyres to be fitted via a different well known and reputable national tyre company (the price for the 2 tyres was the same with both companies) .

Since the tyres were fitted, the car has been in at Audi a couple of times and was valeted by them before it was returned to me on each occasion. Then December and the bad weather arrived and I could not wash my silver car until yesterday (I won't use the local 'car wash' for fear of damage). Anyway...

Whilst on my hands and knees yesterday and giving the sills/ underbody a good wash/ degrease I noticed that a section of the underbody was effectively 'caved in', around the area designated for the car's own 'scissor' jack to be used. The 'caved in' area was circular in shape (but the damage was not on the 'scissor' jack point).

• This is not damage to the side skirts, but to the underbody area (the underbody area that is adjacent/parallel to the side skirts and that has an almost hammerite type finish).

I have seen similar damage on cars before. It is akin to scenarois where someone has tried to jack a car up, having sited the jack in the wrong place and the resultant weight of the car causes the affected contact point to 'cave in' when the jacking starts and the jack takes the weight of the car.

I am sure that this is not damage from any other form of underbody impact whilst the car has been in our possession because we are careful with the car and because of the circular shape of the damage and the fact that there is no surrounding damage to any item. Significantly, there is not even paintwork damage/ broken paint to the 'caved in' area. In short, the damage appears to be consistent with a slow application of pressure (for example, a trolley jack).

(i) So what, if any, recourse have I got? I am not confident that the tyre fitter will own up because if they did not own up 3 months ago, they are unlikely to do so now. I will take the issue up with them (it was not the tyre company used by Audi by the way).

As I say, this appears to be an isolated 'caved in' underbody section that will not corrode - not outwardlay at least - as the paintwork is not broken. My concerns are:-

(ii) The likely cost to fix this damage (is it even necessary)? and

(iii) If I don't have the damaged fixed, the potential impact on future resale value?

As some of you will be aware, the Q7 is an expensive car to buy and run. 2010 was a particularly expensive year for my ownership of this car. The maintentance and repair costs ran into thousands of pounds.

• If I could try and give anyone advise, in my own opinion and hopefully without stating the obvious, I would not own a car like this without having a comprehensive warranty in place (which I have).

Regardless of the make and model of your car, I thought I would share this 'found damage' with you, so that you can be alert to the issue when you need to change tyres. Any constructive and realistic observations would also be appreciated.

All the best for 2011.

[andynpz]

What a lousy thing to discover - it would really **** me off if I found that, so commiserations old chap! And it would spoil my ongoing pleasure of ownership.

Due to the passage of time I doubt that the tyre fitters will own up - in fairness they can't be sure you haven't had other people work on the car.

In my experience, many dealers take a very casual look at a car when you trade it. If it didn't bother your conscience, it would be worth a try to say nothing when the time comes. I admit that's probably what I would do. And probably sooner than formerly planned!!

Thanks for the reminder to check carefully after a tyre change.

Good luck! Cheers, Andy

[pld118]

Well...

The tyre garage looked at the damage and politely declined to accept liability citing - understandably - the time lapse between their fitting the tyres and me bringing the damage to their attention.

They did acknowledge that I had spent good money on their tyre services in the past and they said that they did not want to lose my custom.

I politely explained that given an apparent lack of goodwill on their part, combined with my overwhelming feeling that they were responsible - I know I can't prove it and they know that too - I would not be giving them my custom again and nor would my family.

The Area Manager telephoned today and they have now said that if I get a quote to repair the damage then perhaps they could make a contribution so as to retain my custom... ongoing, but to be fair, more than I expected and I am quietly quite impressed with their response which does seem to be customer focused.

Overall, if they see through their offer, quite a decent response...

[pld118]

What a lousy thing to discover - it would really **** me off if I found that, so commiserations old chap! And it would spoil my ongoing pleasure of ownership.

Due to the passage of time I doubt that the tyre fitters will own up - in fairness they can't be sure you haven't had other people work on the car.

In my experience, many dealers take a very casual look at a car when you trade it. If it didn't bother your conscience, it would be worth a try to say nothing when the time comes. I admit that's probably what I would do. And probably sooner than formerly planned!!

Thanks for the reminder to check carefully after a tyre change.

Good luck! Cheers, Andy

£1050 estimated to repair this damage. However, they actually said that it is not essential to have it fixed as there is no underlying damage, it won't rust and - as an approved repairer - they didn't feel it devalued the car...

I am not happy though... the tyre garage Area Manager has been pursuing me since I forwarded him the estimate but we've not spoken yet due to missing eah other... I will be interested to hear if he still wants to make a contribution and if so, how much... and the more I think about it the more I am incensed that I should have to pay anything when I know it was nothing to do with me!

[andynpz]

I'm not being unsympathetic - just realistic. You aren't really any further forward. Tyre guy will only pay something if you have the work done, and it isn't essential. So you could be well out of pocket, without adding to the value of your car.

May be best if you can learn to live with it or forget it. But it would always bother me!

Cheers, Andy

[maximuss]

hi there

i went to lift my car up on a ramp the other day and noticed the same problem... so i can understand your frustration!

its caused when a car goes up on a hydraulic ramp where the lifting surface of the ramp runs the length of the underboby of the car.
because we have plastic under trays that hang down further than our sills and jacking points all the weight of the car goes onto the plastic causing it to crack and crumple untill the ramps lifting surface comes into contact with the reinforced structural lip underneath.

if i do any work on my car now i jack up one side at a time

it is a pain but i dont think theres any point fixing it,no one will ever notice it,it wont get worse and even if you did have it repaired you mite have the same problem over and over come mot or service time.

all i would suggest is next time you need to have your car raised off the ground just see what lifting equipment they use,try and find a garage that use an adjustable ramp that locks onto the four jacking points only.

ive learned to deal with my damage now,it could have happened anywhere!!

good luck with whatever you decide

[pld118]

I'm not being unsympathetic - just realistic. You aren't really any further forward. Tyre guy will only pay something if you have the work done, and it isn't essential. So you could be well out of pocket, without adding to the value of your car.

May be best if you can learn to live with it or forget it. But it would always bother me!

Cheers, Andy

Your logic is spot on... I'd already had that conversation with my wife before your post... for example, even if they offered to pay 50%, I would still have to pay over £500... The Area Manager and I keep missing each other to discuss the matter... I'll be interested to hear what he says... it is what it is... one of those annoying things!

[pld118]

I'm not being unsympathetic - just realistic. You aren't really any further forward. Tyre guy will only pay something if you have the work done, and it isn't essential. So you could be well out of pocket, without adding to the value of your car.

May be best if you can learn to live with it or forget it. But it would always bother me!

Cheers, Andy

And... this week the tyre company Regional Manager offered to pay half of any repair costs; so they are offering to pay just over £500... but, as you said, that means I need to pay over £500 myself...

Overall, my view is why should I end up paying that amount of money to rectify a problem that a so-called professional has caused (and by the way, well in excess of what was paid for the 2 tyres they fitted)...

So, whilst doubtless some will say they've made a reasonable offer in the circumstances, no happy ending for me really...

My 'wheels are turning' as to thinking of some form of resolution within the £500 offered by them so that I'm not left out of pocket... but I can't see a way round having the damaged fixed without ending up out of pocket myself...

Unless I forget the notion of having it repaired and see if they are prepared to offer any good will gesture regarding future tyre services... Otherwise, I'm not using that outfit again because having been through all possibilities, I am sure that they did it!

[Phutters]

For what it's worth, and some of it is a bit cynical...

I can't help but feel that the manager's offer to pay five hundred quid towards the repairs is tantamount to an admission of guilt.

Wanting to retain your custom sounds more like a disingenuous platitude than a sincerity, unless of course you own a company which runs a fleet of tank transporters, the only access to the premises of which is up a narrow road permanently covered in carpet tacks.

I don't see how you can win on this one, really.

I'd be incandescent too, but in the end I think I'd swallow very hard and come round to accepting that the damage is really only cosmetic (and in a place which isn't visible) and, very reluctantly, move on.

But not without a few backward glances, mind you.

As far as the tyre company themselves are concerned, I think you're better off going somewhere else altogether.

Even if they offered you and Mrs pld 118 a week in a hotel overlooking St Mark's square in Venice by way of a gesture, and you accepted, it wouldn't stop the gnawing inside whenever you took a car back there to be worked on.

The thing is that you know they did it, and despite their misplaced protestations of innocence, they might just do it again.

[pld118]

For what it's worth, and some of it is a bit cynical...

I can't help but feel that the manager's offer to pay five hundred quid towards the repairs is tantamount to an admission of guilt.

Wanting to retain your custom sounds more like a disingenuous platitude than a sincerity, unless of course you own a company which runs a fleet of tank transporters, the only access to the premises of which is up a narrow road permanently covered in carpet tacks.

I don't see how you can win on this one, really.

I'd be incandescent too, but in the end I think I'd swallow very hard and come round to accepting that the damage is really only cosmetic (and in a place which isn't visible) and, very reluctantly, move on.

But not without a few backward glances, mind you.

As far as the tyre company themselves are concerned, I think you're better off going somewhere else altogether.

Even if they offered you and Mrs pld 118 a week in a hotel overlooking St Mark's square in Venice by way of a gesture, and you accepted, it wouldn't stop the gnawing inside whenever you took a car back there to be worked on.

The thing is that you know they did it, and despite their misplaced protestations of innocence, they might just do it again.

Jeesuss... and I thought I was cynical... Did they trash your car too in the distant past? ... You are right... I will have one last verbal throw of the dice with said manager and then I'll move on, regardless of the outcome.

Anyway, Mrs pld118 now has a somewhat more visible axe to grind after last night's carry on... see my thread entitled, 'Fender Bender - Q7 Bumper Bumped'... and on that score, the pld's have nobody to blame but themselves!

Thanks again.