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Thread: Swirl flaps - are they worth it?

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  1. Re: Swirl flaps - are they worth it? 
    #21
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    Subsequent to my earlier posts, in the end I was fed up looking at the warning light and I gave in and took the car to Audi Poitiers. They charged me 2150 Euros (including the 140 Euros for the diagnostic)

    On the first full tank to full tank of diesel driving on similar roads at a similar speed (steady and up to 100 kmh max), (I know this is not exactly scientific, I should have driven on exactly the same roads at the same speeds) but filling on the same fuel pump and letting all the bubbles stop, I achieved 8.75 litres/100 km (32.2 mpg), the computer stated optimistically again 8.2 Litres/100 km and at the current cost of fuel I calculate that I will need to drive for another 46,000 km or 28520 miles to break even. IS IT WORTH IT? I WILL LET YOU BE THE JUDGES!!!

    I have had Audi cars since my first Audi 1972 100 GL which I bought in 1979 but I think that there are questions about the technology they are employing these days.

    The best ever Audi in my opinion was the late 1990s Audi A6 2.5 tdi 140 bhp AEL 6 speed manual estate, adequate power and space but phenomenal economy (I have done 68.7 mpg full tank to full tank). When I came to live here in France that car regularly did better than 48 mpg driving in a similar manner to my Allroad, OK it is 4wd and more powerful, but with common rail injection and modern electronics the newer car should do much better than it does and without the owners having to pay through the nose for their design blunders.

    My Mercedes Sprinter Van is more fuel efficient, pulling more weight and pushing more air and I think it is likely my next car will be Mercedes, I feel that Audi have let me down.

    Michael
     
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  2. Re: Swirl flaps - are they worth it? 
    #22
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    Hi wjam,

    Hoping you can offer some advice please. I have a 2007 A8 3.0 TDI with 50k Miles on and never given me any problems. Recently started displaying the ECU warning intermittently and I got my Audi Dealer to scan the fault. It's the manifold intake flaps on Bank 2 which they say needs replacing and will cost €900. They ran the scan yesterday and the warning light is always on now but the car is running perfectly with no noticeable performance issues
    My questions are: 1.) is it safe to ignore this warning and avoid €900 worth of a hit at the Dealership and
    2.) By doing this do I run the risk of the flaps totalling the engine if they get sucked in as per the case with some BMW's?
    I'm not in the least bit technical i'm afraid so just wanted to try and get your advice if poss..

    Thanks
    Havers
    Last edited by havers24; 08-02-2012 at 01:00 PM. Reason: newbie errors..
     
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  3. Re: Swirl flaps - are they worth it? 
    #23
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    Hi Havers, welcome to the forum. You can ignore this warning and the car will be fine. The flaps default to a fail-open position when the positioner throws the error. However, apart from being annoying, the problem with the MIL light being on all the time though is that you will never know if/when a second error happens that could be more serious.

    I got both sides changed at the same time by a local specialist for £1300 - and even that was paying too much. It took about 3 hrs. Or as you've seen wjam has posted an even cheaper fix
     
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  4. Re: Swirl flaps - are they worth it? 
    #24
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    Hi Havers,

    There is no noticeable difference to the performance of the car and seeing as BMW owners remove them I doubt you will ever see any side effects. In my opinion the addition of these flaps is to attain slightly better combustion at lower revs in order to put a spec on their marketing blurb and pass a better EU spec test. But if the replacement costs you 900 euro every 4 or 5 years then no economy was made. Some audi dealers suggest both should be done together!!!

    The only thing I don't like is having 1 bank working and 1 not.. Of course you could just disconnect the other bank but that will ad to the list of codes showing at a scan.

    I am so waiting for someone to design a little plug in emulator so that the car thinks it has perfectly working flaps (but in fact they are not connected.)

    cheers

    WJAM
     
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  5. Re: Swirl flaps - are they worth it? 
    #25
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    Hello Havers24,

    My experience is that you will not experience any problems with driving and any deterioration in fuel consumption will be negligible. I think that the BMW problem of the flaps dropping into the engine and totalling the unit does not happen with Audis. The reason I had both banks repaired on my Allroad (2200 Euros) was that while the MIL was illuminated if another engine fault occurred I would not have been warned. I suspect also that if one bank has failed it may not be long until the other bank follows suit.

    Regards,

    Michael
     
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  6. Re: Swirl flaps - are they worth it? 
    #26
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    Hi Matador,

    The cheaper fix requires some extra development.. But yes it does work... Pretty hard to adjust, and I was getting a little flexing of the plastics remaining on the motor and at the flap end of the manifold. I'm trying to get another working motor for low money in order to try a better rod end linkage... Mainly because I want to make it look standard again in the unlikely event I have to leave it into an Audi dealer for something.

    Right now I'm using copper foil as a means to take up any slack. Works well for about 6 months, then needs re-done (copper wears away). But cost is about 1 euro per 5 year :-)

    WJAM
     
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  7. Re: Swirl flaps - are they worth it? 
    #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjam View Post
    Right now I'm using copper foil as a means to take up any slack. Works well for about 6 months, then needs re-done (copper wears away). But cost is about 1 euro per 5 year :-)
    WJAM
    That's more like it!
     
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  8. #28
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    I've seen this issue on my Mercedes. I'm researching the Audi a6 as a potential replacement. This thread caught my eye. The route cause of flaps jamming is EGR. If there is a way to map out the EGR function and blank the EGR valve then you cure the problem. The prices being paid are broadly equivalent with Mercedes ones. I know on BMWs conversion kits are available that removes the flap mechanism from the manifold. On my 80k miles Mercedes in on a second manifold


    ---
    I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=55.882291,-4.324356
     
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  9. Re: Swirl flaps - are they worth it? 
    #29
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    Hi,

    In fact on Audi the cause is just plain wear. The linkage is a short square section aluminium rod with 2 plastic rod ends that snap onto the lugs. Bank 2 is the one beside the turbo and gets hotter than bank 1... I suspect that the extra heat causes it to wear out befor bank 1 although bank 1 is also upside down relative to bank 2 so that may also be significant regarding the amount of effort to move it.

    In any case the use of plastic rod ends on a parts that is moving every time you press the throttle is simply profiteering to me.. They knew it would fail and they also knew it was of no benefit in the real world.

    But yes EGR could be contributory if it gunks up the inlets and causes additional strain/wear/or simply throwing a code due to the flaps not making the end point of travel.

    I'd like to know how BMW's de-flapped don't give any errors. Perhaps they don't use flap physical limits to define the end points?? I'm about to google Merc - how sad is my life!

    cheers
    WJAM
     
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  10. #30
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    A deflapped BMW shouldn't and a modification to the ECU should solve that one. I've had a linkage fail on the manifold in the Mercedes although it's rarer than on here. The turbo on the merc sits within the cylinder bank at the back of the engine but the motor that operates the linkages sits below the turbo and that leaks oil rendering the motor in operable
     
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