2005 Ibiza 1.2 Wont Start

[piehole1983]

Hi, my sister in law has a 2005 Ibiza 1.2 and nipped around to the shop in it yesterday. When she returned to the car it would not start at all. She says it was starting and running fine up until this point.

I popped round to take a quick look (in the dark!) to check the obvious stuff. It has a good spark, plenty of petrol, battery is fine etc.

The EPC light is on and the oil light flashes and beeps three times. The tops of the pistons dont seem to be wet with excess fuel either.

I have read that the brake light switch is a common issue with these cars, also the timing chain slipping. Would I be right in saying the brake light switch cuts off the fuel pump/injectors as it does on most modern diesel engines?

Im hoping its not the chain as the car only has about 40k on it and was service about 3k ago!

[paul b]

Hi,

In my experience of brake light switch issues on my A6, the brake light switch would not cause the car not to start, I don't think this is your problem. At best it would give you no brake lights and warning lights on the dash.

I've recently been doing lots of reading up on these Ibizas with the 1.2 engine as I have just bought one. I have to say, the car not starting like this sounds suspiciously like the timing chain has slipped.

I have been advised there are upgraded, modified parts to stop this happening available from SEAT, but that means changing the chain anyway.

Sorry to be the bearer of what I think is bad news. You need to get it checked out, you might get away with just changing the chain, but there could also be valve damage and more.

As an ex Toyota Mechanic who had to deal with similar premature timing chain issues years ago on Toyota engines (of which there was a recall for), I'd ask SEAT to check it out and try and get some sort of good will funding towards sorting it. That's what we did.

I may turn out to be wrong, but as I said, from what you describe it seems timing chain related.

Paul

[piehole1983]

Thanks for that! It was taken to a garage and checked out. Bent valves and damaged pistons, surprise surprise....

I thought the newer models of these engines had the fault rectified?

If I was you I'd be getting rid of the Ibiza before it bankrupts you lol!

[piehole1983]

Just a quick update. I have replaced all the valves, two new rocker arms, three new tappets, chain etc and all other related consumables. I finally finished it on Friday and it started!

All done by my good self!

:beerchug:

[paul b]

Great stuff! Glad to hear of other members getting their hands dirty! :beerchug:
I've bought all the relevant modified parts from SEAT to fix this issue on mine, and will be doing the work myself sometime within the next month.

Mine (well, it's my son's really) hasn't broken yet, it's more preventative maintenance than anything.

[piehole1983]

Its a pig of a job to replace valves etc, but I enjoyed the challenge lol!

Changing the chain etc should be fairly straight forward. I do recommend that you buy the proper camshaft/flywheel locking kit and a pulley holding tool for the crank pulley.

Good luck! :fing02:

[paul b]

I was considering buying them, but having heard you recommendation, I certainly will now.
Cheers. :beerchug:
Paul

[paul b]

By the way, did you buy the crank pulley and camshaft locking kit? If so, would you be interested in hiring it to me or even selling it to me, to recoup some of your costs?

Just a suggestion, don't feel like you have to! If you don't want to hire it out, I'll look at other options. :)

I'll take good care of it and ensure it returns to you within an agreed time frame.

Paul

[scotini69]

thanks for that! It was taken to a garage and checked out. Bent valves and damaged pistons, surprise surprise....

I thought the newer models of these engines had the fault rectified?

If i was you i'd be getting rid of the ibiza before it bankrupts you lol!
ive had this problem with azq engine chains jumping arpund 50 times and not once has it damaged a valve or piston!!!!! Sounds to me like the garage taking the ****..ton!!!!!!!!!!!!

[d4rr4gh]

I have a 2004 Ibiza 1.2 (AZQ) with 75000 miles on the clock. Bought it in Feb and a thousand miles later we had exactly the same problem. My sister parked it, got back in and it wouldn't start.
I'm not all that handy with cars but I got a few friends to look at it. The 1st did a compression test and there was low compression on 2 cylinders and no compression on the other one. It then turned out that he didn't have the time to work on it so I took it to another friend who replaced the timing kit but it's still not starting. Haven't done another compression test yet but the 2nd guy (who did the timing) suggested just putting in a new engine if I can get one with low miles from a scrappies.

What do you think is the best course of action? My uncle says that if there's low compression on all the cylinders it won't be worth the hassle to start working on it and a new engine is the way to go but I'm worried that it might not be timed right (my friend didn't have the timing tool for it so he "had to do it the old school way" (i'm not sure what that means but I'm guessing he could have got the timing wrong?)).

So I'll hopefully be picking up a compression tester tomorrow from my uncle and we'll see what happens. But in the meantime, I'd appreciate any advice you might have. My friend says that these engines are 50/50 with bending valves/etc. Seeing as the car didn't stall - it just never started - I'm worried that all the turning over that my sister and dad did has wrecked it and a new engine's the only way to go.

Ideas?!

[scotini69]

Hey the azq's are really common for timing chains jumping a few teeth when oil pressure is low as the tensioner is hydraulic, when resetting the chain it is totally necessary to replace the chain runners with the modified ones available as a new part from seat dealer and also replace the Chain tensioner!! You need to get the two camshaft tools to line up top end or make sure after taking camshaft caps off the two are lined with the slots sitting horizontally!! The crank shaft tool is just a large pin that goes in the space you take the g28 speed sensor out of!! Get the proper tools and align properly before getting an engine, I have done 50 chain tensioners on azq's but never ever needed an engine after chain jumps!!! Unless as you've said they have ****** it with not knowing what they are doing!! :0)

[d4rr4gh]

I have done 50 chain tensioners on azq's but never ever needed an engine after chain jumps!!! Unless as you've said they have ****** it with not knowing what they are doing!! :0)

I'm guessing that the problem is that when the chain jumps a tooth (or a few teeth) the car stalls when the revs are low and the driver tends to think "Hmmm... something's wrong" Whereas my sister got into the car and turned it over at least 5 times before thinking of doing something about it and then my dad went out and tried it. So if the chain skipped the first time she tried to turn it over, then in my mind the thing must be banged up pretty bad...

And also, the timing chain has been replaced with the kit from VW so it'll be the whole lot and not just the chain. I'll check to make sure though...

[scotini69]

I'm guessing that the problem is that when the chain jumps a tooth (or a few teeth) the car stalls when the revs are low and the driver tends to think "Hmmm... something's wrong" Whereas my sister got into the car and turned it over at least 5 times before thinking of doing something about it and then my dad went out and tried it. So if the chain skipped the first time she tried to turn it over, then in my mind the thing must be banged up pretty bad...

And also, the timing chain has been replaced with the kit from VW so it'll be the whole lot and not just the chain. I'll check to make sure though...

HEY, the chains pretty much allways jump when the car is cold and when you go to start it, as I said previously, it's usually because there is no oil in the hydraulic tensioner, so can happen after changing the oil too, my guess is it's just jumped a tooth or two and when properly aligned will be fine, unless when whoever has tried to align the timing has aligned it a mile out and caused damage. I really can't see damage being caused by the chain initially jumping whilst cranking, I've never ever seen that happen on the azq before

[d4rr4gh]

my guess is it's just jumped a tooth or two and when properly aligned will be fine, unless when whoever has tried to align the timing has aligned it a mile out and caused damage. I really can't see damage being caused by the chain initially jumping whilst cranking, I've never ever seen that happen on the azq before

So Basically, I need to get my friend to check the timing again - and this time with the right tools? When he did the timing, he said it was 180 degrees out... So I'm not sure where that leaves me. I just need to persuade him to strip it down and rebuild it... again!

Scott, your name isn't a reference to NI is it? I'm wondering if there's anyone in the Lurgan/Belfast direction who'd be able to lend/hire me the tools...

[scotini69]

So Basically, I need to get my friend to check the timing again - and this time with the right tools? When he did the timing, he said it was 180 degrees out... So I'm not sure where that leaves me. I just need to persuade him to strip it down and rebuild it... again!

Scott, your name isn't a reference to NI is it? I'm wondering if there's anyone in the Lurgan/Belfast direction who'd be able to lend/hire me the tools...

Sorry no I'm not in NI, I really can't see it jumping round 180 degrees, they usually only jump one or two teeth, and yeh removing the timing cover etc is a real pain but I'd definately get the right tools and do it properly before getting an engine, if the timing is even one tooth out it won't start, it'll maybe try and fire as if it's going to start but will then not. I know u can buy the tools, but don't know where in NI, maybe try eBay?? hope u get to the bottom of it, and hope I've been of some help let me know how you get on!! Cheers

[scotini69]

Sorry no I'm not in NI, I really can't see it jumping round 180 degrees, they usually only jump one or two teeth, and yeh removing the timing cover etc is a real pain but I'd definately get the right tools and do it properly before getting an engine, if the timing is even one tooth out it won't start, it'll maybe try and fire as if it's going to start but will then not. I know u can buy the tools, but don't know where in NI, maybe try eBay?? hope u get to the bottom of it, and hope I've been of some help let me know how you get on!! Cheers

Just checked eBay, type in vw lupo timing, there are a few people selling the sets, about 50 quid though :0(

[d4rr4gh]

Just checked eBay, type in vw lupo timing, there are a few people selling the sets, about 50 quid though :0(

I've taken a look myself and I wouldn't mind paying the £50 if it was somewhere in NI and I could just pick it up. Its the whole waiting game that annoys me... Do you know if people would lend or hire this sort of thing out? Maybe I'll start a new thread...

[d4rr4gh]

OK, latest on this is that after about £800 (plus whatever its going to be in labour - maybe the same again) the car still isn't running. Its got good compression, timing is ok, its getting spark and fuel, but its still not running! Click here (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?119935-1.2-(AQZ)-Not-running-after-timing-chain-replaced-WHY) for a more detailed post.
I'll never buy another VAG car!!