Mark 3 Golf GTi 16v - intermittent engine cut out

[the breeze]

Was wondering if anyone can help?

Have developed a cut out problem over the past few weeks. So far it has always happened when the engine has been running for a while but not up to full temperature.

When it occurs whilst engine is idling always restarts without any problem, and if happens whilst driving can normally avoid stall by dipping the clutch and revving. The engine feels lumpy and down in power for a short while and then normally clears and all is well. Am suspicious it might have something to do with the automatic choke?

Cheers...the breeze

[brianf]

Was wondering if anyone can help?

Have developed a cut out problem over the past few weeks. So far it has always happened when the engine has been running for a while but not up to full temperature.

When it occurs whilst engine is idling always restarts without any problem, and if happens whilst driving can normally avoid stall by dipping the clutch and revving. The engine feels lumpy and down in power for a short while and then normally clears and all is well. Am suspicious it might have something to do with the automatic choke?

Cheers...the breeze

No end of possible reasons - air, fuel or electrical - so it really needs checking in more detail. Intermittent faults can be very difficult to resolve untill they develop to the regular stage. It could even be something mechanical like the head gasket starting to allow water into a cylinder. You need to identify the most likely reason and gradually home in on the actual fault by a methodical approach.

[junker]

I have suffered from a very similar problem in my Golf Mk 3 8v GTI for several years.

At first it was only shifting from 3rd to 2nd and accelerating through 3rd. Clutch goes on and the revs drop off, car stalls. Especially dangerous on roundabouts.

I had a company car for a while and my brother used the golf - he experienced the same thing but it was steadily getting worse. When I went back to the Golf the problem was intermittent with nothing special to distinguish the problem (cold starts or long journeys etc)
I explained the problem to 2 VW dealerships the first charged me 70 quid for diagnostics which proved inconclusive.

I started looking at the forums etc and can see that the audi's skoda etc seem to have similar symptoms. I went back and explained this to the dealerships and they offered to put it back on the computer, I preferred to keep my money so declined. They were adamant that they had never seen this problem before.

I then took it to a private VW / Audi specialist who had a look and checked everything he could think of, including electrics, fuel cleaner, breather etc All were fine and the fuel cleaner made no difference.

Sorry to make a long story longer...

On a stag night the other week and I got talking to this bloke who manages a VW Dealership, explained my woes (yes he got bored too) he immediately said get your throttle body cleaned. Notorious problem apparently!
-2 hours and 48.50 (inc vat) pounds later the problem was sorted.
Like a different car - best money I have ever spent.
Hope this helps somebody:biglaugh:

n.b. he also told me that they have had lots of the new golfs coming back, sluggish performance etc. The solution - the engines will not work properly if you do not use premium fuel.

[massenj]

Hi, my 97 mk3 8v gti was cutting out at junctions :zx11: I had the throttle body cleaned and the ECU cleared of the thousands of fault codes and it was fine;) , it is playing up again now....1 year later though:mad: . I've also had small bits of white smoke coming up from the hazzard warning light button area...what the F*** is that about?? Help!

[junker]

I have had the white smoke coming out from the steering column (few years ago now) :aargh4: absolutely crapped myself, thinking sh** car was about to burst into flames.

Asked around and heard that the wiring loom can sometimes be a bit suspect. Took it to the garage and got them to check it out but they said it was ok. It happened a couple more times over the next few months but nothing for the last 40k miles. Realise this is probably no help :biglaugh:

[Mowgs]

I have a P reg Golf MK3 GTI 8v and have been getting the same problems, from looking on the net it seems that this is a common fault, car is booked into garage this week for the throttle body to be cleaned, lets hope this sorts the problem cos there is only so much shame i can take everytime i cut out at traffic lights or a roundabout :mad:

I'll post again letting you know if the problem is sorted as soon as i can.

[Mowgs]

mechanic cleaned out throttle body and replaced one of the relays on the ECU, car is running as new now - no problems :D

[GTI Man]

Hi Gents, I hope someone can help because it is driving me mad !!!!! I have a 97 Golf GTI 8V with 69,000 miles on the clock it has only done 6000 in the last 4 years. I have read many threads regarding the car stutering etc
and my fault is similar to most mentioned. I have already changed the ignition coil, fuel filter and had the diagnostic checks carried out. Bascially the car will just drop the revs with no warning and then it will carry on. Sometimes it happens a few times and sometimes just once or twice as there is no pattern, tonight i started up the car and I could hear a high pitched noise like a whistle What the hell is that ???? Sound behind the dash. I like the sound of the throttle being cleaned so I am going try this next, but which relay on the ECU was changed !!!! How many are there ???? Has anyone out there got any ideas which will help.:zx11:

[brianf]

Hi Gents, I hope someone can help because it is driving me mad !!!!! I have a 97 Golf GTI 8V with 69,000 miles on the clock it has only done 6000 in the last 4 years. I have read many threads regarding the car stutering etc
and my fault is similar to most mentioned. I have already changed the ignition coil, fuel filter and had the diagnostic checks carried out. Bascially the car will just drop the revs with no warning and then it will carry on. Sometimes it happens a few times and sometimes just once or twice as there is no pattern, tonight i started up the car and I could hear a high pitched noise like a whistle What the hell is that ???? Sound behind the dash. I like the sound of the throttle being cleaned so I am going try this next, but which relay on the ECU was changed !!!! How many are there ???? Has anyone out there got any ideas which will help.:zx11:
If I recall correctly, on the carb engines, there is a short right-angled rubber tube behind the carb and that has a tendency to split, allowing air to be drawn in so weakening the mixture and causing the whistling noise. I'm not sure if there is something similar on the injection engines. The condition varies because the rubber is flexible and the split does not always settle in the same position.
If that is the problem, it is fairly easy to check. Locate the tube and, with the engine idling, run your fingers over the surface of the tube and/or move it about and see if the idle speed varies.
If not, there are many other possible reasons - spark plugs, ignition leads, distributor cap, fuel jets clogged, condensation in the fuel tank, etc., etc. However, they would not explain the whistling, which could well point to an air leak somwhere on the inlet.
Good luck.

[GTI Man]

Thanks I will have a look at the weekend, however rev dropping while I am driving I have just asked a VW specialist who were extremly helpful and said to check the crank shaft sensor, is there anyone out there who had similiar problems to myself and then replaced this item ??? Help im losing sleep over this ???? I was also told to clean all the electrical connectors to the brain as this also sometimes helps, bascially they said go back to basics and check all connectors.:zx11: There must be someone out - there.


:1zhelp: The main problem is when I am driving along the revs will drop for a second then return. The car does not tend to cut out !!!! There is no pattern what so ever.

[brianf]

Thanks I will have a look at the weekend, however rev dropping while I am driving I have just asked a VW specialist who were extremly helpful and said to check the crank shaft sensor, is there anyone out there who had similiar problems to myself and then replaced this item ??? Help im losing sleep over this ???? I was also told to clean all the electrical connectors to the brain as this also sometimes helps, bascially they said go back to basics and check all connectors.:zx11: There must be someone out - there.


:1zhelp: The main problem is when I am driving along the revs will drop for a second then return. The car does not tend to cut out !!!! There is no pattern what so ever.

I thought you meant you could hear the revs dropping. If that is not the case then it is clearly something related to either the sensor or the wiring or the rev counter. That still doesn't explain the whistling sound though.

[kimblebee]

I experienced the same problem last year with my Golf Gti 97 and replaced the potentiometer switch which was last June and the problem went away till about 2 weeks ago and now it is starting to drop revs whilst driving and then going back up but yesterday was sat at some traffic lights and it just cut out. Exactly the symptoms I had before not sure if the switch is faulty or its something else. Did the throttle cleaning work for any of you?

[GTI Man]

I had the crank shaft sensor replaced and it seems to have cured the problem when going along, however the engine still cuts out from time to time and then it re starts. Any help team:zx11:

[tonylemesmer]

I have a regular and repeatable cutting out problem on my 98R plate 8v Golf GTi.

The cutting out problem never happens in the first 4 minutes of running. During this warm up period the idle speed is rock solid.

After this 4 minutes I have to continuously keep blipping the throttle during idle to keep the engine running (i.e. junctions and traffic jams of which there are plenty in Bristol!). Sometimes I have to press the throttle quite a long way down in order to prevent the engine stalling. Even if I keep my foot pressed down to maintain around 1200rpm the engine speed is not consistent.

I have had 2 throttle bodies and one air mass flow meter replaced (by Volksmania, Gloucestershire) and the problem has slightly improved but not gone away. The throttle bodies have been cleaned out prior to fitting.

I replaced relay "30" the ECU relay and it hasn't helped this particular problem (it did stop the other cutting out problem experienced by others where the engine wouldn't restart for a couple of minutes).

I guess reading these posts, the next thing to try is changing the crankshaft sensor or the pipework around the air intake. My concern is: If the crankshaft sensor is the problem, why is it related to the running time of the engine, or more likely: engine temperature?

It seems like a pretty serious problem to carry on throughout the life of the Mk3 GTi, what were VW doing all that time?

I'll let you know how I get on.

cheers and thanks for the help from the forum, very helpful indeed.
Jono

[kimblebee]

Hi, my problem just disappeared, it was just before the dodgy fuel was around but don't think it was that cos it has been fine since. I have had my crankshaft sensor replaced already and would advise anyone else to do the same think I may have had some dirt in my fuel tank or something.

[pagey]

do you have any problems with hesitation on acceleration as well ? does it idle rough then stall or just stall ? had a problem with hesitation on acceleration myself and quite often almost died at idle, turned out to be tracking in distributor /poor rotor arm contact. replaced with recon fine now

[tonylemesmer]

do you have any problems with hesitation on acceleration as well ? does it idle rough then stall or just stall ? had a problem with hesitation on acceleration myself and quite often almost died at idle, turned out to be tracking in distributor /poor rotor arm contact. replaced with recon fine now
pagey:
There is a bit of hesitation on the throttle. It seems that when your foot makes contact with the pedal and starts to push down, the revs don't rise until you have pushed down quite a bit, and equally when lifting off the pedal it seems like a more sudden cut in power than it should.

When idling the revs kind of stutter a bit then they just gradually die over a period of about 1.5-2 seconds. I will try the distributor and rotor as it is pretty quick and cheap.

cheers
jt

[marcoaten16v]

I'm having the same problem with the engine cutting out on my '95 gti 16v. In my haynes manual it says that the throttle body gasket needs to replaced if you take the throttle body apart. My local motor factors don't sell them. He sold me some gasket paper to cut my own out, do you think it would be ok??

cheers

[my1stGTi]

I've been reading all the posts on this thread. I'm new to VW's but have had a mk3 GTi 2.0 8v for last 6-months. I had a similar problem at end of 2006. Where i would drving normally and the car would stutter, drop revs as though i had changed from 2nd to 4th. I'd check the gears then the problem would go all i can is it felt lumpy to drive for a few seconds as though there was a blockage.
I took to my local VW specialist and found the breather hose that is connected between the top of the block and air filter had split, and once replaced was fine.

Don't know if this helps at all, as i say i have limited knowledge of VW's.

my1stGTi

[tonylemesmer]

Right, update from the weekend.

I changed the distributor and rotor arm and the cutting out happens less often, but I can tell it still wants to die, but now it has enough oomph to pull the revs back up to idle each time. I'm wondering if the coil is damaged or underpowered for the spark plugs (Is it true that meatier spark plugs require a similarly meaty coil to feed them?).

Anyway, I think what I have learned from the experience in trying to fix this problem is that it isn't just one cause but a compounding effect from many sources, all ignition related.

So far:
Thottle body and potentiometer x 2
Air mass flow meter x 1
ECU relay x 1
Distributor x 1
Rotor arm x 1

Throttle body, distributor and rotor arm have had the most effect, but still not solved!

[tonylemesmer]

Recap:
Mk3 98R 8v GTi cutting out whilst idling, also sometimes on the motorway.

Latest update:
I bought an ECU from the breaker for 60 quid on Saturday, took it to my local helpful VW specialist who fitted it last night and the problem has now gone away. Idle is rock solid 800rpm. Fuel consumption has increased, no cut-outs since the new ECU was fitted.

The thing that highlighted it was an ECU fault was when it was connected to a VAG COM equipped laptop the "basic adjustment" facility didn't work. I believe this is related to idle speed and the resetting of all the parameters when the engine is not running (but the ignition is on).

So, yet another fix for the popular idle cutting out problem!

Cheers
Jono

[minefield]

Had the same with my golf mk3 GTI 8v . engine would cut out randomly while driving , revs would drop and recover more or less in a milli second or sometimes the revs would drop and ignition lights come on then most times would come back to life!

Changed both the fuel and ignition relay,

The CURE was - Crankshaft postition sensor or as some call them (Engine Speed Sensor) , Removed and replaced and not a problem at all now.

To replace this sensor thats sat behind the oil filter i found the easiet way to be , remove the front engine mount and ur straight in .

Also this part from VW is a lovely £150-160 and i found a VW parts shop on ebay called murrays VW parts and got the sensor for a niiiiiice £43.06 inc postage :)

By the way my switch was the orig from 1996 so its had a good innings.

Hope this will help some peeps it sertainly done the job for me!

EDIT .. here is the link where i got the sensor just incase .

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-Golf-Vento-Passat-Sharan-Engine-Speed-Sensor-NEW_W0QQitemZ200133064819QQihZ010QQcategoryZ9889QQ rdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

[bunter]

having this very same problem with my 96 gti 16v, always seem to be when stopping for a junction etc, the revs die and the car will not restart for quite a while. im certain its temperature related somehow aswell because it never happens when the cars cold, only when at running temp!

i bought the car knowing about the problem for a bargain price, the previous owner had changed the plugs, leads, cap, rotor arm, coil without fixing the problem.

so far i have replaced the fuel pump relay and have just removed the ecu relay (30) and opened it up to find some very suspct soldering on there so this will be the next fix. after that i reckon it will be to clean the throttle body and replace the crank sensor.

this threads been really helpful and has given more some new routes to go down :)

[bunter]

ok tried a few things this morning. tried to resolder the ecu relay which had dodgy soldering on and also de-carboned the throttle body and checked for possible air leaks. took the car for a test run surprise surprise when it was up to temperature it cut out. was a simple test run of about half a maile and it managed to take me 20 mins!

suppose next up will be to buy a brand new ecu relay from vw and see if that makes any difference!

does anyone know if there is any way to check the crank sensor to make sure its working correctly?

[bunter]

ok well, after finally getting my vag-com obd cable through in the post yesterday, ive finally been able to hook my laptop up and diagnose the fault on my car. turns out its a dodgy engine speed sensor, which is good news as i know whats wrong with it now but bad news is that its gonna cost me 40 notes to replace.

anyway heres the error i got from vag-com:

00513 - engine speed sensor (G28)
27-10 - implausible signal - intermittant

hope anyone else with the same problem goes down the route of getting hold of vag-com and a cable as its saved me the £75 vw want just to do the same thing :)

[Bobochat]

My P reg golf 1.6 displays all the above symptoms. Sometimes cuts out and then kicks back in straight away. Mostly just cuts out and then I have to leave it for a while then it starts again. DIagnostics does not indicate a problem.

There seems to be no commonality. Sometimes will cut a couple of times a day, other times will run for months without incident.

Regularly serviced. 140k miles. Fuel pump and distributor changed. Throttle body cleaned. Relay position 3 is blank and number 12 is a grey 167.

Still cutting out.

[minefield]

Well if u r getting the same problem of cutting out i suggest changing the engine speed sensor. mine has been changed now for a few months now and no problems at all. for the sake of £43 change it , VAG showed no problems at first with mine but after removing the sensor and seeing the state of it i knew that id found my fault. Sensors like this dont last for ever, quite some knowledge on sensors as i work every day with them.

The sensor picks up the movement of the crank and if the sensor is not working corectly then ur ECU presumes the engine is not running, Thus Ignition lights come on and engine cuts out.

CHECK IT OUT >> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-Golf-Vento-...QQcmdZViewItem

[Pete Taylor]

Very common problem on mk3, fuel pump relay is what you need to change. Number 30 I believe it is. ECU relay sometimes needs changing too, I believe that is number 167

Get yourself one ordered from Euro car parts, less than helf the price than VW

[Bobochat]

Many thanks for all your responses. It seems that the 'sender' (not sure if I got that bit right) is the guilty culprit - the bit that the distributor cap goes on to. Has now been 2 weeks and no problems. Fingers crossed.

[SneakyMcC]

Hi Gang!

I bought the wife a '98 2.0Lts GTI. After having it valeted (engine too) it has taken to cutting out!:zx11:

Runs happily then cuts out. Sometimes wont start. Can I take it the its the Engine Speed Sensor? £40 sounds like a cheap place to start?:Blush2:

[Bobochat]

I honestly don't have the expertise to answer that. I know on mine the coil, fuel pump, distributor cap and I think something else were changed but the fault came back. Since changing the sender I have had no problems with cutting out. On occasions mine wont start i.e. the starter motor spins - but the engine does not turn over (Different to trying to start with the engine turning over but not starting). This I have been assured is the starter motor and at the moment I can't be bothered to have the thing changed. Having now spoken to many people (I approached people I didn't even know who have Golfs in the work car park) and the fix has been any number of things including what I mentioned before. Also on mine that when the mechanic plugged his gadget in next to the ashtray - no fault codes appeared, which doesn't help. Since changing the sender, mine has run fine - but I know this didn't fix someone else's Golf that had the same symptoms. If you get something changed, I'd hang onto the old one because if it doesn't fix it, you could still probably get a few quid on ebay. Hope this helps.

[SneakyMcC]

Mmm, that seems to be the case. I have just been down to the garage that has been servicing our Golf, prior to us buying it. There a bill from June saying that the crank speed sender was changed!:1zhelp:

[gerard_gti]

i have had a melting problem lol
was wondering if any1 knew the problem. my mk3 gti reves out at 5000 revs instead of 7000...and isnt the quickest as it used 2 be..iv fitted a new distributer and no difference..my friend put it onthe computer n it read the fault as distributer hence why i put a new distributer on it,but it hasnt changed a bit,i was wondering if the timing had went into safe mode or something and how do you change it?
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/Themes/2_SlickPro_Graphite/images/icons/modify_inline.gif