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maximus659
16-11-2009, 01:09 PM
Please help i am going mad.
Wife's car has developed a running problem, its a 2000 1.6 ibiza, but an akl engine the same as golf a3 etc. The engine hesitates at 1500rpm stutters then will rev up. When driving it will not go anywhere and just judders as soon as you start to pull away, unless you keep the revs up over 2500 rpm. Tried disconnecting all the usual culprits with no difference ( Air mass, coolant temp sender, lambda). When the throttle body is disconnected the hesitation goes and the engine revs and drives ok, apart from idle. Have tried another throttle body on it but it is still the same.http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/images/smilies/sad.gif
The throttle body i replaced with was second hand. Could a throttle body fault cause these symptoms? We did basic settings on it and it was fine, by next morning it is back to stuttering.
Tried another throttle body. was fine on the night that it was fitted, next day back to stuttering. Disconnect the throttle body and it does not stutter but does not idle well obviously. Was beginning to think ecu but why would disconnecting the throttle body make a difference? Please help i am going mad!! http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/images/smilies/furious.gif

Crasher
16-11-2009, 01:13 PM
First of all you need to have a fault code read done, guessing and disconnecting part will get you nowhere, in fact it is now going to cause you trouble as the fault code read will include codes for all the devices you have disconnected. To start with the person doing the code read will need to print and clear all the codes, then you will have to drive the car to get the fault to re-occur and then go back for a re-read. Thee codes that come up on the second read can be trusted and acted upon.

maximus659
16-11-2009, 01:24 PM
After the latest throttle body was fitted, although it was a second hand one, the fault codes were reset. the car ran fine reved without hesitation, and idled as you would expect. By the next morning the faults were back???

Crasher
16-11-2009, 01:54 PM
So it needs reading again but you have disconnected all sorts of things since then so they will be stored as codes so you don’t know what is real.

maximus659
16-11-2009, 02:05 PM
ok will get it checked later on if i can and post the fault codes up.

maximus659
18-11-2009, 06:56 PM
Ok fault codes reset engine run and faults rechecked.

01177 Engine control unit

00282 Throttle valve position

00282 Throttle valve positioner signal out of tollerence

Crasher
18-11-2009, 07:02 PM
Bump this later so I see it at home.

maximus659
18-11-2009, 09:30 PM
any ideas anyone?

Crasher
18-11-2009, 10:11 PM
01177 Engine control unit – Defective

Engine control unit defective - Engine will not start- Replace engine control unit

00282 Throttle valve positioner -V60. Short circuit

This has 6 sub codes,

1) Short circuit
2) Blocked or without voltage
3) Connector
4) Upper stop value
5) Signal outside tolerance
6) Regulating difference

You have 00282 twice so presumably it came up with “signal outside tolerance” one, what was the other variation?

00282 Signal outside tolerance can also indicate a faulty ECU as well as a faulty throttle body and both are common problems on the AKL engine.

kenney
18-11-2009, 10:16 PM
The codes suggest a defective ECU,but you need to check the earth wiring first for an open circut

maximus659
18-11-2009, 10:34 PM
The codes suggest a defective ECU,but you need to check the earth wiring first for an open circut
How would i do this?

If the ecu was defective would it run better with the throttle body disconnected?? Or would this point towards throttle body?

kenney
19-11-2009, 10:51 AM
Quote) If the ecu was defective would it run better with the throttle body disconnected?? Or would this point towards throttle body?
I don't know.it would be pure speculation to answer that without having done it.but a rough guess is it wouldn't run at all..On the fault code list the two faults combined say Engine control unit signal output defective (engine control unit defective).Before replacing any such exspensive units one must check all possible wiring faults,as the ECU is in such a position,water can get into the multi pin connector.To check the wiring the first you need is a wiring diagram a multi meter,and the know how, to read the diagram,i can help you with the diagram;)

maximus659
19-11-2009, 05:59 PM
I have checked to ecu connectors and all seem ok, no signs of any water ingress. I did however notice silicon sealant around the ecu itself. So i am now presuming the fault was sometimes present before i bought the car. I opened the ecu but it all looked good inside again with no signs of any water. A wiring diagram would be a great help, i have a multimeter and some faultfinding experience.

Crasher
19-11-2009, 11:18 PM
PM me the cars reg and your email.

maximus659
22-11-2009, 04:24 PM
Thanks for the diagrams. Done my wiring checks. Checked the throttle body wiring and all seems ok.
Guessing i am gonna have to pick one or the other now :mad:

maximus659
23-11-2009, 05:12 PM
To replace the ecu do i ned to go to a dealer or can i do it with a basic scanner?

kenney
23-11-2009, 05:50 PM
Read and note the ECU coding you may need to recode the new unit It can be done with Vag Com
Adapting engine control unit to electronic immobilizer
Enter address 17 dash panel insert
enter 10 Adaption
enter 00 Erase learnt values and save
Adapting engine control unit to throttle valve control part
enter address 01 engine management
enter address 04 basic setting
enter display group number 98 save
After pressing the save key the throttle valve positioner is driven to Min., Max. and five intermediate positions and the relevant throttle valve angle stored in non-volatile memory. This procedure takes approx. 10 seconds. The throttle valve then remains in the start position for a brief period then closes.
The adaption of the engine control unit to the throttle valve control part is now complete

maximus659
26-11-2009, 09:57 PM
Car started stuttering today with throttle body still disconnected?? Would this point towards the ecu?

Crasher
26-11-2009, 10:30 PM
Not necessarily but with the TB disconnected I am not surprised it stutters, the fuelling will be all over the place and the lambda probe will be dying. It is not much use asking me how cars run with components disconnected, it is a bodge and I refuse to do it.

maximus659
09-12-2009, 09:31 PM
fitted the new throttle body on the car tonight carried out basic settings and it is exactly the same. I guess its the ecu then :mad: Anyone have access to parts catalogue to give me the right part number for the ecu??

kenney
09-12-2009, 09:49 PM
06A906019CM engine control unit / for models with cruise control system
06A906019BQ engine control unit / for models without cruise control

maximus659
09-12-2009, 09:54 PM
i have a 6k0 906 019 fitted is this wrong then??

Crasher
10-12-2009, 10:38 AM
The ECU number fitted to the car will come up on the front page of Engine 01 VAG-COM screen. From this I can tell you what will work. It should be 6K0 906 019 and this was only used on the 99 to 2002 Ibiza/Cordoba and 99>2001 Polo Classic with the AEH or AKL engine.

Note:- I meant to post this at 9am but got taken off to do work.

maximus659
10-12-2009, 05:47 PM
It is the 6K0 906 019 ecu that i have fitted. Is this the only ecu that will work on my car?? Are the vw ecu's for akl the same?

kenney
10-12-2009, 05:51 PM
The part numbers i posted are for a Golf with the AKL engine,i thought it was a Golf we were refering to ,then i read your first post:o

Crasher
11-12-2009, 09:35 AM
If the VW ECU’s were the same they would be the same part number and the calibration for a Golf is completely different as the car is a different platform with different electrics, data comms etc. You must replace the ECU with one that is compatible and there is only that one number listed for that car.

maximus659
21-12-2009, 07:38 PM
Looks as though the one i need is on the same shelf as rocking horse **** :( cant find one anywhere...