Injector Loom (01 Pass 130TDi)-anyone done?

[Mike McKinstry]

Hi guys,

Want to eliminate this from possible causes of my misfire-has anyone done one of these.
If so how do the connectors fold in when withdrawing the old loom and should you "pack away" connectors on new loom when inserting-then how do you open/ connect them.
Does loom just lie in head or is it in some way fixed.
Also,best way to bend 1ft of plastic into 5"???

Thanks,
Mike

[Mike McKinstry]

have changed this-no need to take head off-slides in fro RHS after removing all EGR ducting-old loom came out in one piece too!
So far so good ,no misfire.

Mike

[m.ramsdale]

Hi Mike,

I'm going to try changing the injector wiring loom on my 2001 Passat TDi 130 and could use a few 'How To' pointers. A few quick questions some of which may seem overly obvious/stupid - sorry about that.

1) I take it that the cam/rocker cover needs to be removed?
2) Can the injector connectors be disconnected without removing the injectors?
3) Any other advice that could come in handy?

Thanks for your time,

Marc.

[longmanjon]

i changed mine about 3 weeks ago on my 2000 tdi. it is an easy job.
the old one will break up due to the heat it has taken over the years, dont worry about breaking it, as long as no bits fall down into the oil.
heat up the new one, i left mine of the manifold and only need to bend it in the middle once.
the new one should come with the connectors clipped in the strip to make it easy to slide in.
all you need to do then is take off the cover and move any large pipes in the way at the back. and remove old one.

make sure you have a small elbow joint for your socket set, as there is one bolt by the inlet manifold that is a real pig to get to.

[Mike McKinstry]

Once you take the cam cover off and see where the old loom needs to be fed out and new in all should become clear-
DO NOT remove the injectors .

Mike

[m.ramsdale]

Mike, Longman,

Thanks for your help. Just finished changing the loom. As you say it's quite an easy job. Gone for a 12 mile test drive and no more hesitation/misfire, but it was fairly intermittent. Will be doing 300 miles in next 2 days and will update with outcome then.

Thanks again for all your help.

[m.ramsdale]

Have done 500 miles since changing the injector wiring loom and the misfire has gone - yippee!!! I am also getting 4-5mpg extra too. Thanks to everyone for your help.

[andre 2000]

Hi,

I have some symptoms which sound like they could be injector loom but then again from what I have read could be could be dual mass flywheel - can any of you chaps relate to the following?

I have a 2001 Passat TDI 130. The car starts and runs ok and gives good economy usually in the low to mid 50s over a long run. The car has done over 110k miles.

At first I assumed some rotating component was out of balance, eg wheel, driveshaft, DMF assembly, but as I have got more attuned to it definitely "feels" like the engine is slightly misfiring.

I am not sure whether issue is linked to speed or revs, but it manifests itself at motorway speeds.
If I accelerate hard [ish] from about 60 mph the engine burbles almost as if firing on 3 cylinders, albeit not as harsh as having a full cylinder out. It gets more pronounced the faster I go. It's not particularly bad, just something you know isn't quite right.

It only shows up on acceleration, not if I maintain a constant speed or decellerate. The car generally performs well, but it does feel a little down on power in the mid range [sorry, I know that is very subjective]

The fact it doesn't show at constant speed is why I am thinking it is not anything out of balance, as it would "wobble" all the time.

Can any of you chaps relate to these symptoms prior to changing the loom? :confused:

[m.ramsdale]

Andre,

Yes, your symptons sound very similar to my earlier experiences with the electrical leakage issues in the injector loom. Initially the problem is quite subtle and can feel very similar to the bumping felt when driving over a rough road surface.

As the leakage gradually increases over time, as the loom insultaion decays further, the symptons worsen. It grows from an intermittent 'misfire' most noticeable during hard-ish acceleration to a really rough engine with next to no power.

Quite often stopping and turning off the ignition for 10 seconds will temporarily remedy the 'misfire'. I think something in the engine management code must detect injection issues and put the engine in a 'safe mode' and turning off the ignition seems to reset that decision (until the 'misfire' occurs again).

The new loom costs £43 incl. VAT and takes 1 hour to fix and is a really easy job. My biggest regret was just not doing it straight away. What have you got to lose, £43 is next to nothing?

Marc.

[andre 2000]

Cheers M!

absolutely agree, no objection to spending £43 and getting my hands dirty on a Saturday morning!

I had already decided I was going to do this but just wanted to share my specific symptoms to be sure.

Thats why I appreciate this forum because you get shared knowledge that dealers just don't [or won't] impart.

I'm sure by now I would have been charged for diagnostics, new injector[s] etc etc. not to mention not having a car whilst in for diagnosis.

Thanks very much for confirming, I'll let you know how I get get on.

Andy

[andre 2000]

Well gents,

I replaced the loom this morning, it took around an hour and have now got a very smooth running Passat all the way through the rev range!
Misfire completely eradicated.

The old loom plastic carrier broke up as I was withdrawing it, it was very brittle but otherwise all went without incident.

Thanks very much for the information and posts that led me to the problem, wouldn't have had a clue otherwise.

To anyone who has the misfire issue on the TDI PD 130, try this out before spending hundreds on new injectors.

Thanks again,

Andy :D

[Rolo]

I appear to have exactly the same symptoms as yours. Mine is the same but with 240k. I changed the wiring loom about 65k ago because it completely lost one cylinder. I have removed turbo and that is clean and checked all of the hoses etc and changed N75, MAF & MAP but it still remains the same. If changing your injector loom cures your problem please let me know as I suspect that it could be the DMF. This was replaced 60k ago and the problem started about 15k ago. The loom is lot easier than the DMF! I left the original plastic tray in place and fitted the new wires into this and used a few cable ties to hold it together and keep the wires in place.

If you find out what it is please let me know
Thanks
Ian

[andre 2000]

Hi Rolo,

Yes I can say without doubt the loom has fixed the misfire 100%.
I did the loom on Saturday and have done some 200 miles mostly motorway since then with no misfire or other symptoms at all.

The reason I am so confident is that the problem on my TDI wasn't intermittent, in so much as it did it everytime I got past 60 mph, and whereas others have reported switching the engine off and restarting it cleared the problem, it didn't make any difference to mine.

Having fitted the new loom it has stopped completely.

Mine has done 112k, I have only had it a couple of months but have put 7k on it in that time [I do about 1000 miles a week on business]
It didn't particularly get any worse over this time, and fuel economy was in the low to mid 50s but it definitely wasn't quite right.
I stumbled across Mike McKinstry's post and it seemed way too similar to ignore.

My guess is that as the loom is essentially boiled in oil everytime you use the car, it starts to deteriorate - from other posts I guess from about 60k it starts to show up. I haven't got any diagnostics other than a bit of nouse but I suspect resistance increases in the wiring and/or connectors as they harden through cycles of heating and cooling and this is the root cause of the issue.
Sounds like yours has come around again to change - it strikes me it is a consumable spare!

The part is now £45.45 inc VAT from VW, I had to order it but it was in next day.

I was happy to spend the money as:

1. Given my mileage I spend a long time in the car and want it to run well.
2. I was worried I would break down, typically for me on a rainy dark Friday night :(
3. If one cylinder is not firing fully, I was unsure as to any whether long term damage to the engine or injector could be caused - I'm sure there are plenty of techies who could answer that one on here, but it is somewhat outside my interest other than fixing the problem.
4. I'm intending to take the car to a very high mileage, similar to yours or beyond so tend to invest in it to help it get there.

Strangely enough, despite other posts, I never suspected the injectors themselves, they are pretty robust mechanically so I just didn't go there.
Just how many have been replaced uneccessarily is anyone's guess, as I believe the diagnostics simply flag up a fault on a particular cylinder.

I too thought about the dreaded DMF, or possibly a bent driveshaft as the whole thing felt like some rotating part was out of balance. Obviously I can't say in your case whether it is or isn't DMF, although many posts talk about symptoms such as 1st gear being difficult to select and tinny rattling noises.
That is subjective though, as lets face it for all it's strengths the Passat was never blessed with a slick gear change, and I have a tinny rattle by way of the rear brake pads which can be heard when the windows are down.

I also get the impression that driving style has a big impact on DMF longevity too - fast starts from lights and riding the clutch, as I am not convinced there is anything inherently wrong with the design, its simply misunderstood.
I ruled it out [and the driveshafts] by revving the car in neutral, and also with the clutch disengaged, and I could still get the misfire to occur - you have to tune right into it though as it isn't as clear when the car isn't under full load.
DMF is possibly one for the future for me, as I can vouch for my own driving style but not for the previous owners.
Having said that I have heard of these cars reaching mega mileages on original clutches and DMFs so who knows.

If you do go for a new loom - and lets face it you've got nothing to lose next to what people spend on new injectors for what I suspect is often the same problem, do watch your old plastic carrier. When removing the old one mine shattered and pieces were thrown into two of the oil galleries underneath. I managed to salvage them before they sank, next time I will drain the residual oil from the head and cap the galleries off just to be safe.

The new loom went in without a hitch, but as recommended by the helpful chaps on here I heated mine up first to be able to bend it in. I would replace the whole lot rather than strip out the wires - you may as well fit it in one go -you've paid for it.

I hope this helps, feel free to check with me again as my miles rack up.

Andy

[trevMk2]

Hi
Having similar vibration type problems with my 2001 TDi 130 (AVF) as others on here - no fault codes. Was planning to change inj wiring loom (at worst it costs me £50 to rule it out - various folk on here say its only about £45) - however my local ever helpful dealer wants £87 plus VAT. Cant source it anywhere else (Murrays, ECP, GSF etc..) has this really doubled in cost (or is £45 trade price) or do I need to try another dealer in Bath/Bristol area (surely all dealers the same price ?)

Thanks

Trevor

[Rolo]

Part No 038971600 £39.52 + vat £45.45 full retail price. If they want more then they are thieves!

hope that loom cure misfire. Heat it with hot air gun to soften plastic and it will bend in to passat head.
Think that mine may be due to DMF
cheers
Ian

[andre 2000]

£87 + VAT :confused:

Mine was £45.45 inc VAT direct from VW 2 weeks ago.

The only difference I can think of is the engine code. I am not sure if AWX types are massively different from AVF but something seems amiss.

There was no mention of trade discounts etc. when I got mine from a main dealer in Stockport - at the price you've been quoted I would either let your dealer know this, or go to another dealer and get one posted to you.

Cheers

[Mike McKinstry]

Ours is AWX and was about £45 for loom.

[trevMk2]

Many thanks for correct part No – I went back to local dealers and got a more sensible parts man (1st muppet quoted me for something completely different)
Regular readers will know that been suffering from vibration (most noticeable at motorway speed) on my wife’s 2001 TDi130 and saw on here that often this is due to ageing injector wiring loom. So for the sake of £45.45 I thought I’d change it. Here how





Buy wiring harness adaptor from VW (038 971 600 £45.45 inc VAT) looks like this http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb280/trevphoto/DSCN1473.jpg
http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/%3Ca%20href=%22http://s210.photobucket.com/albums/bb280/trevphoto/?action=view&current=DSCN1473.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E%3 Cimg%20src=%22http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb280/trevphoto/DSCN1473.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22inj%20wi ring%20loom%22%3E%3C/a%3E
Remove plastic engine cover (3 10 mm nuts) & insulation



Disconnect air duct that runs from intercooler to the inlet manifold

Unbolt bolt connecting duct to bracket (10mm bolt –captive nut in bracket)
Unplug sensor multiplug
Disconnect intercooler hose (pull spring clip upwards to release)
Disconnect duct at manifold end ( mine was very oily so I taped freezer bag round it so that no muck fell into head later)
Disconnect 4 clips holding misc hoses & fuel hoses to air duct
Manoeuvre duct out of way


Disconnect loom electrical connector (approx ½ turn anticlockwise)
Remove 2 bolts/studs at back of head that retain loom housing (10 mm) see pics

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb280/trevphoto/DSCN1475.jpg


Remove top portion of cam belt cover and disconnect breather hose from head
Remove cam cover (10 mm captive bolts -13 off)
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb280/trevphoto/DSCN1474.jpg
Unplug 4 electric connectors from injectors and clip into loom rail see pic
Withdraw loom (metal lugs will snag and plastic rail will probably break – be careful that bits don’t fall into head)
Carefully heat new loom rail about quarter way, mid point and three quarter way with hair dryer/hot air gun (on low/mid setting) to soften it just enough to enable it to be bent into crescent shape so that it can be threaded into head. White mark on loom housing faces up (about 2 oclock)


As Mr Haynes would say the rest of the assembly is the reverse of dis-assembly (torquing cam cover bolts to 10 Nm – no torque setting listed in Haynes for loom nuts) .

Only tricky bit is manoeuvring old loom rail out of head and new loom in – that is difficult only because the rail is 330mm long and the gap between the head and the bulkhead is less than half that!

Only tools that you will need are 10mm socket (1/4 inch best as space limited esp bottom bolt of loom housing ), torque wrench and a few flat blade screwdrivers for prising open pipeclips etc.. Took about 1 ½ hours working quite slowly and taking pics as I went along. Read on here that “check engine” warning sometimes appears after doing this work – didn’t happen with me – maybe just lucky.

Has it fixed it ? maybe - does seem a bit smoother but wont know for sure until we do some motorway work.

I’ve got good info of here in the past - hope this helps somebody.


PS

Is this amount of gunge in the duct normal ? or have I a separate problem ?

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb280/trevphoto/DSCN1476.jpg

[andre 2000]

Glad to hear you got sorted out with the right price in the end.

If it helps to reassure you, the duct on mine was at least that gunged up, but has done over 100k so just wiped out what I could see.

Cheers
Andy

[shazzam]

i think i may have to do this soon, does anyone have any pictures showing the layout of wiring etc under the rocker cover, i just want to see what its all meant to look like before i start taking it apart. prefer to know what to expect rather than dive in blind... lol

[shazzam]

ignore that last post everyone... pictures hadnt loaded ntil after i posted my daft request... damn internet running at snails pace...

[caldirun]

i think i may have to do this soon, does anyone have any pictures showing the layout of wiring etc under the rocker cover, i just want to see what its all meant to look like before i start taking it apart. prefer to know what to expect rather than dive in blind... lol
I had this problem about 10,000 miles ago, had a look at the loom, wiring and insulation was fine but the push-on connectors were loose. I used a very small screw driver to close the connectors, the problem disappeared, maybe replacing the loom is a little drastic.

[macka]

Wow, really useful thread.
Have exactly these symptoms on a Passat 03 plate. Took it to an 'Independant VW specialist' who diagnosed a misfire on cyl 1, said that the wiring loom is chief suspect and that head had to come off.
Total cost predicted to be £1500 !!!!
Had a look at weekend and I cant see why the loom doesnt just bend to get it in, so this thread confirms that its wuite easy - thanks a lot.
And i dont think we;ll use that 'VW specialist' again near Southampton.

[PCDoctor]

Can anyone tell me if there was, there is a gasket to replace for the rocker cover ;)

[Rolo]

the cam cover has rubber sealing strip that clips in. It doesn't require replacing

[botus]

How much did the vw dealer quote for this job?

[bfgweb]

Thanks trevMk2 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/member.php?u=13805) for the photos. I replaced the injector wiring loom on my Passat 1.9TDi yesterday. Your photos gave me the confidence to carry out the task. It took me a couple of hours but managed to remove the old loom intact and inserted the new one in just a couple of minutes. Sigh of relief when the car started first time :Blush:

My problem was intermittent "dropping of a cylinder". Garage told me it was failing injector and would be a four figure sum to replace them all. I decided to try the loom first if it turns out not to be the loom then I have only lost £50 - worth a try.

Either way I wouldn't have attempted the replacement without the support and guidance offered on this forum so thanks guys!
:beerchug:

[vroooOOOM]

:confused:Well what do yoou know, my 2000 passat 115bhp sport has the same problem, think I'll spend £43 and see what happens, I was thinking of changing the car but wold be great to keep the old girl.;)

Anyone have a tuturial on how to change the loom? some pics would be nice to.

Cheers

[bfgweb]

Just scroll back a page and there are some excellent photos from trevMk2 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/member.php?u=13805).
Very clear images and instructions.

My Passatt not had a 'misfire' yet since changing loom! ;)

[scotty33]

Wow, really useful thread.
Have exactly these symptoms on a Passat 03 plate. Took it to an 'Independant VW specialist' who diagnosed a misfire on cyl 1, said that the wiring loom is chief suspect and that head had to come off.
Total cost predicted to be £1500 !!!!
Had a look at weekend and I cant see why the loom doesnt just bend to get it in, so this thread confirms that its wuite easy - thanks a lot.
And i dont think we;ll use that 'VW specialist' again near Southampton.

It's unlikely he takes the head off to change this loom. I think you should name the outfit. So they can be avoided

[trevMk2]

Glad my pics helped a few folks - goes some way to repaying the forum for all the stuff I've learnt. Unfortunately the new loom didnt cure my problem !!! still vibration at speed. Had all wheels balanced and that maybe helped a tiny bit but still not able to drive at typical motorway cruising speed due to the vibration - may post another query in case someone else can help.


Now got an immobiliser problem as well see below (and a wife nagging me to get a Japanese car !!)

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=70070

Trevor

[caldirun]

Now got an immobiliser problem as well see below (and a wife nagging me to get a Japanese car !!)

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=70070

Trevor
If you do not like messing with cars, get a Honda

[vroooOOOM]

Just going out to collect my nw wiring loom, will fit tomorrow and update the results

[crazymike_30]

going to get this loome for mine, reading this post makes me think it could cure alot of problems, will report back, thanks guys!!!

my passat is a 2003 sport tdi 130 avf, only done 65k

[vroooOOOM]

Here's my TUTORIAL hope its of help, didn't work for me.

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=82798

[ismith]

So I have a 2006 140 TDi Passat which is doing 32 around town and 45 on a long run. This is way below the book figures. The dealer altered some ECU settings, which has made the acceleration surge feel less snatchy and has got rid of the tendency to stall when pulling away. It doesn't seem to have made any difference to the mpg and it still throws out a cloud of smoke under full acceleration. So now they are saying injector loom. It's only 3 years old and 20,000 miles. What do you guys reckon?

[martin1810]

Try posting on b6 forum. Loom problem usually feels like a misfire. It's a cheap option compared to replacing faulty injectors. Lets hope yours is a loom fault.

[Mike McKinstry]

IMHO a loom as already stated causes a misfire which you do not mention having-I wouldnt bother changing this as symtom is not one related to loom and the low mileage would also count against this as being the fault.

[crazymike_30]

hey ismith, there is no loom fault on the 2.0 tdi engines that i know of, the only common fault that i know about which corresponds with your problem is with the egr valves, they are always bloody going, i do loads of them at work, mainly on golfs but its the same engine, there not cheap and are often caused to fail by not giving there engine enough welly, hope this helps, mike!!

[Mike McKinstry]

All internal looms will deteriorate with age and could become problemsome B5,B6 Mercedes,BMW etc however as already mentioned mileage would make me believe it is NOT loom.
Mike

[ismith]

Thank for your comments. The dealer were a bit vague as I put the car in on the last day of the extended warranty. They said they found info in the ECU log. Their computer tells them to change ECU settings first, then change the loom. It seems strange for it to fail after 20k miles and 3 years.

Interesting about EGR valves. I assure you, Mike, that the engine is regularly used over its full performance range!

Oh for people who knew more than just following computer instructions....

[martin1810]

A loom fault usually shows up a fault code which they can read. The loom fault found on
B5.5 passats doesn't seem to be as common on the B6. It could still be a loom fault or a faulty injector, but these should give a code. Maybe thay should take a closer look at the EGR.

[vroooOOOM]

Hi,

I have some symptoms which sound like they could be injector loom but then again from what I have read could be could be dual mass flywheel - can any of you chaps relate to the following?

I have a 2001 Passat TDI 130. The car starts and runs ok and gives good economy usually in the low to mid 50s over a long run. The car has done over 110k miles.

At first I assumed some rotating component was out of balance, eg wheel, driveshaft, DMF assembly, but as I have got more attuned to it definitely "feels" like the engine is slightly misfiring.

I am not sure whether issue is linked to speed or revs, but it manifests itself at motorway speeds.
If I accelerate hard [ish] from about 60 mph the engine burbles almost as if firing on 3 cylinders, albeit not as harsh as having a full cylinder out. It gets more pronounced the faster I go. It's not particularly bad, just something you know isn't quite right.

It only shows up on acceleration, not if I maintain a constant speed or decellerate. The car generally performs well, but it does feel a little down on power in the mid range [sorry, I know that is very subjective]

The fact it doesn't show at constant speed is why I am thinking it is not anything out of balance, as it would "wobble" all the time.

Can any of you chaps relate to these symptoms prior to changing the loom? :confused:
I had the same, when excellerating hard I had a stutter, changed wiring loom, no change, found it was fuel filter blocking up and starving engine changed it and my car feeels like new, goes like a train.
I did a tutorial for changing loom with photos so have a look at my other posts.

Cheers vroooOOOM

[2002 Passat 1.9]

Hi. I have a 2002 passat 1.9tdi and am having the same problems was just wondering if there is any videos on the net to assist me in the replacement of the injector loom?
Also someone told me it could be the injector it's self??? I hope not as quoted £465 for a new one.
It started a while ago. It just misfires sometimes only when accelerating and then after a while it seem to go into limp mode or something. like it's only fireing on 3 cylinders. As mentioned previously, when I turn it off and on again it seems to clear it sometimes but soon comes back. Have had it tested and is misfireing on cylinder 1 but the esp light stays on does not go off.
If anyone can help I would be very greatful

[Rolo]

Have changed 3 injector looms but not sure if this is your problem, difficult one. didn't find any video but do usual and remove cover etc. you can break the old loom to get it out but tip passed to me was to heat up the new one with hot air gun to soften the plastic. It will then bend enough to get it into the head from the back. you will break the plastic unless you soften it! Otherwise it is an easy job.

[VdoubleYa]

Great post cheers, just replaced my wiring harness on a4 2002 1.9tdi. Was intermittent misfire, did a diagnostic and it showed that injector 1 was faulty but the tech said it might not necessarily be the actual
Injector due to the way the info is interpreted by the software. Got quoted £480 to replace injector and loom, then another garage said they would replace loom Labour only for £250. Originally I thought it couldn't be the injector as if it stopped working then surely it would just fail and not have this intermittence. So changed the harness in exactly the same way, broke the old one pulling it out but it's a lot easier to put the new one in thankfully. Job done no more misfire for £60 inc for a new harness from Tps. Took about 2 hours. Now onto the next job to fix broken hinge and sort out these pesky hvac motors.

[caldirun]

As I have posted in the past, get the engine hot and the old one comes out very easily, if not messily, new one is very flexible and will easily bend to go in.
Have fun with the HVAC actuators, I had my dash out to do V71, I think removing the outer wing and cutting a hole in the inner would be easier.

[VdoubleYa]

I've been told that there are 5 actuators in my 02 a4 avant I can see 4 located under the glove box which is now removed, 3 on the right and 1 on the left dont know where the other one is yet. A couple of them sound like they're having a fit, it goes on and on even with the engine off and key out, they look easy to replace but I'm going to try and take them apart and clean the connections first as I think it may be something to do with signal between the connections due to age, dust etc. I've seen some oem ones on eBay for about £15 not sure if anyone has any experience of this but Tps want £100 inc vat after discount so No chance of buying that as it's not worth it. Thanks for the tip I'll warm the engine next time before taking the loom out if I ever need to replace in the future on another vag motor. :-)