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View Full Version : Question Vw passat 2001 TDI sport 130 BHP..high on fuel consumption



kingmuff
03-11-2009, 03:33 PM
Wondering if anyone can help me here..ive had a 2001 tdi passat for the last 3 months and diesel consumtion has got worse and worse over the last few months..at any time my diesel consumtion on the dash board is showing less than 30 mpg at anytime..Anyone have any ideas what the problem could be?

zollaf
03-11-2009, 04:03 PM
first thing to check is that the display is accurate, by brimming the tank. if it is and you are only getting that mpg, then a fault code read will help. it could be a coolant temp sensor gone down, causing overfuelling, or a failed maf meter.

kingmuff
03-11-2009, 04:12 PM
first thing to check is that the display is accurate, by brimming the tank. if it is and you are only getting that mpg, then a fault code read will help. it could be a coolant temp sensor gone down, causing overfuelling, or a failed maf meter.

ive already had it up on the computer diagnostics machine and no faults were read so i would imagine that would be more of a mechanical fault rather than an electrical fault maybe? i was thinkin it maybe a fuel filter but that was already replaced about 4 months ago

zollaf
03-11-2009, 04:44 PM
a maf wont always flag up a fault code. if you can, have a look at the live data, and see if the maf reading makes sense. a blocked fuel filter wont cause that sort of drop in mpg. see if any one suggest something else, but for what its worth i might be inclined to try a new maf. although if you do, those in the know on here will only use genuine ones from a dealer. others can be found slightly cheaper, but are often broken before you fit it. if you use the search for failed maf, it would be worth reading to see if others have cured this fault with a new one.

kingmuff
04-11-2009, 01:32 AM
a maf wont always flag up a fault code. if you can, have a look at the live data, and see if the maf reading makes sense. a blocked fuel filter wont cause that sort of drop in mpg. see if any one suggest something else, but for what its worth i might be inclined to try a new maf. although if you do, those in the know on here will only use genuine ones from a dealer. others can be found slightly cheaper, but are often broken before you fit it. if you use the search for failed maf, it would be worth reading to see if others have cured this fault with a new one.
cheers zollaf..thanks for ur time

gccp
18-02-2010, 12:09 PM
hi,
i have the same problem, my passat with pd130 ( avf engine code), after start engine appear 0.6...0.7 L/h and after 1km (1,6miles) travel appears 15L/100km.

i changed fuel filter, oil and filter, i have checked with vagcom and no error,
i had already changed sensor temperature near diesel pump (behind engine), but the problem continues.
can you tell me how i can test my maf?
can help me?
thanks for all

martin1810
18-02-2010, 01:51 PM
Change fuel temperature sensor as well. ECU reads this first before using coolant temperature sensor.

gccp
18-02-2010, 02:02 PM
can i test it with vagcom?
do you know part number?
where is it on engine? on filter?
thanks for help

martin1810
18-02-2010, 03:14 PM
Fuel temp sender should be in one of the fuel lines from the fuel filter. Part number should be 038 906 081B. You should be able to test in vag-com but I don't know which measuring block.

gccp
18-02-2010, 11:49 PM
martin1810 very thanks :biglaugh:

i connected the vagcom on my car and see fuel temp at 55c,
on autodata the value for this temp is between 1200...2200 ohms, but i had 3,3k 3300 ohms.. i think the problem its here...


i will buy a new sensor and test.
i will post new notices.
thanks more one time

shak-b6
20-11-2010, 07:00 PM
guys

did any 1 get to the bottom of this issue, i am experiencing a similar issue with my bora showing 26mog after a coolant temp sensor change, air mass change, and a egr clean.

thanks in advance

martin1810
20-11-2010, 07:22 PM
Best way to get info is to run a VCDS scan of the engine measuring blocks. It is possible for a coolant sensor and an AMM (MAF) to be faulty and yet not show a fault code. If either of those is telling the ecu the wrong coolant or air temperature, it will affect the fuel consumption.

shak-b6
20-11-2010, 07:42 PM
Best way to get info is to run a VCDS scan of the engine measuring blocks. It is possible for a coolant sensor and an AMM (MAF) to be faulty and yet not show a fault code. If either of those is telling the ecu the wrong coolant or air temperature, it will affect the fuel consumption.

thanks martin, will do a log and post the results, will prob need some advise in translating and picking out the readings which are out to help pin point the issue,
will run a scan in about half hour.

:beerchug:

caldirun
20-11-2010, 08:52 PM
guys

did any 1 get to the bottom of this issue, i am experiencing a similar issue with my bora showing 26mog after a coolant temp sensor change, air mass change, and a egr clean.

thanks in advance
Change the injector wiring loom, if you have not already!

shak-b6
20-11-2010, 10:01 PM
guys

attached are my readings from block 1-9 on vag com.. there are a few readings which are well out... i need your thoughts pls

Steven715
21-11-2010, 11:01 AM
I could be wrong but measuring block 007 looks like the fuel temperature reading is way to high I would think it would be more like the external temperature if its 18c out side then the fuel should be around that same temperature.
But this could be the return from the engine but I am sure its not.
HTH
Steve.

gccp
21-11-2010, 02:00 PM
i think you have a problem with maf..
i see this on group 3, value 460mg/str with 903rpm.
this value is applied when maf is bad.

martin1810
21-11-2010, 04:54 PM
Most things look ok but the MAF actual value may be odd. The 460.9 mg/str figure doesn't matter but it is typical of a failed maf. What you need to do is log just that group whilst you drive a bit. I suspect the MAF value will stay at 460 which tells you the MAF is faulty.
If you are not sure how to log, just drive and let a passenger watch the 003 MAF actual figure. It must go up and down with the MAF specified figure. The two figures should be fairly similat at any given engine speed.

shak-b6
21-11-2010, 07:04 PM
thanks to all replies

i tried the test while i was driving as advised by Martin, the actual maf value does change but it varied between 460 -490 which is still out. the confusing thing is that i bought a new maf two weeks ago from vw dealers, the car ran ok but was still drinking diesel - could this of been faulty straight out of the box? which was why my fuel problem never sorted itself out... the maf was a bosche from vw tps.

i hope i can give them the maf back and ask for a replacement as i still have the reciepts

Could i possibly disconnect the maf and see how it runs regarding fuel economy, is it safe to drive with the maf disconected?

regarding the fuel temperature what is the correct range it should fall in... does this mean i need a new fuel temp sensor...?

martin1810
22-11-2010, 04:00 PM
The fuel temp is ok. You can drive without the MAF but it will set a fault code. You are driving without one now as yours isn't working. A dealer MAF has a 2 year guaranty, so take it back. It is possible you have an EGR fault causing this. Swap the MAF and run your measuring blocks again.

shak-b6
23-11-2010, 12:20 AM
thanks again for the replies

update:

yesterday driving down to the shops my car was driving like there was no turbo but sometimes there was like a sudden burst of power........

today i disconnected my maf before driving on my 20 mile m/way journey to work, the car drove even worse took ages to build up speed and virtually no response on fulll throttle...

i disconnected the maf and paid a trip to the dealers during lunch, only to be told they couldnt replace it there and then as it was a electrical device and would have to get one of the vw technicians to test it first.. this could take up to an 2 hours before a replacement could be given, i told them i would come back on wk/end as i had to get bak to work.

later i refitted the same maf, and on the way home i noticed the car was driving alot better than before but the consumption was still low but better at around 35mpg on m/way @ 70!:confused::confused:

ive been going over your website martin, just like to say some fantastic information on it.... i performed a log of a of groups 1/3/7 on a very short drive and ive attached the results.. should i be looking at other specific groups aswell?

:confused::1zhelp:

martin1810
23-11-2010, 11:09 AM
MAF figures show MAF is working ok. Firstly I would make sure the egr valve is shut. Pull off the big hose and look in. Then pull off the vacuum pipe that works it and stick a tight fitting bolt in the end of the pipe you pulled off. Don't blank the pipe left on the egr.
Drive it like that and see if it is any different. You might get a fault code warning, you can ignore that.
Ifyou do a graph of your log for rpm, inject quant & timing (first 3 columns) you will see that injection is not right. There are a number of possibilities for this. Worn cam, worn injector, faulty injector loom. Do you ever get a feeling like a miss fire. According to the graph, you do.

shak-b6
24-11-2010, 12:00 PM
update:

regarding the mis fire, i feel the car holding back some times, but i dont know if its mis firing driving local, the thing i do get is a difficult cold start, and on the motorway i do feel a bit of a shake at above 70 (my wheels are properly balanced so i know its not related to them in any way) that feels more like the engine mis firing at random at a constant rpm,

i will try the method for the egr u have advised, just to be clear which pipe am i puttin the bolt in?

i have done some more logs this morning on the way to work (reading through
ur website of instructions) i couldnt perform a log with everthing as i use the shareware version of the software but.... top man again some very useful info!

another thing i have noticed is that the problem is intermittent, it comes and goes....

on a cold start it is loud (expectd from a diesel motor in the winter) but the engine noise
is not consistent, there is another slight growling noise when idling - although seems ok when i drive

on a rare occasions if i drive off from a cold start without letting the engine warm up the mpg displays climbs quickly if steady driving and have seen it climbs to 50mpg once! (this happens very rarely, most times it is climbing to the normal 26mpg)

but normall i leave the car to warm up a good 10-15 mins before i drive off, in this i see 4.3 mpg for the first mile or so without change then slowly climbs to max of 26mpg with easy local driving.

attached so more logs for some help relating to the problem :1zhelp:

PeteK
24-11-2010, 12:48 PM
I think you have just identified the reason why your mpg is so poor in the last paragraph! If you leave your car idling for 10 - 15 mins before driving off this will have a massive effect on your average fuel consumption as you are using fuel but not moving anywhere. You should always just drive off from a cold start but drive carefully and try not to exceed 2500 / 3000 rpm until the engine has warmed up.

shak-b6
24-11-2010, 02:25 PM
I think you have just identified the reason why your mpg is so poor in the last paragraph! If you leave your car idling for 10 - 15 mins before driving off this will have a massive effect on your average fuel consumption as you are using fuel but not moving anywhere. You should always just drive off from a cold start but drive carefully and try not to exceed 2500 / 3000 rpm until the engine has warmed up.

thanks, i have tried this but this only happens occasionally- sometimes i will drive off from cold start and only achieve high 20's with easy driving, in the past two months i have only achived 50mpg once doing this, this soon came back down on the motorway to high 30's.
the rest of the time with local driving im battling driving easy to get anywhere near 30's.. i know there is definately something wrong

when i drive on motorway to work using this method i average around 38mpg driving at 70 with a real steady foot. surely this is not right -and something is not functioning as it should be

i know where your coming from, in my b6 passat i use to to the same and leave it idling to warm up, when i use to set off the trip computer would show 23mpg but the average would soon climb back up to 50+ with the same driving style on the motorway

but now in my bora it really struggles to climb anywhere near where it should be or even around that figure, i have been using martins website as a guide to check a few parameters using vag com, i have logged some more data hopefully there will be someone like martin and many others who understand this better than i do and will guide me on things to check looking at the data as some are falling out of the specified tolerances...

i will be checking the egr advised by the top man later today when i get home, although this weather and early dark hours is giving me the good old middle finger at the moment to carry out any work in my back garden but will see how it goes.

martin1810
24-11-2010, 05:56 PM
The egr figures look fine so don't bother with the disconnect and block. If you do , you block the thin vacuum pipe that goes to the egr. It controls the egr, so once it is pulled off, the egr can't open. The actual pipe must be blocked because it is a vacuum pipe. The engine won't be happy with the pipe pulled off and not blocked.
Can you do a log of the engine when warm. Start from idle and slowly rev up to 3000rpm, without driving off. 001, 002 and 003. I still think the injector figures look odd.

shak-b6
24-11-2010, 07:53 PM
The egr figures look fine so don't bother with the disconnect and block. If you do , you block the thin vacuum pipe that goes to the egr. It controls the egr, so once it is pulled off, the egr can't open. The actual pipe must be blocked because it is a vacuum pipe. The engine won't be happy with the pipe pulled off and not blocked.
Can you do a log of the engine when warm. Start from idle and slowly rev up to 3000rpm, without driving off. 001, 002 and 003. I still think the injector figures look odd.

cheers martin

ive done a log from standing and reving upto 3k revs, i have realised no matter how steady i kept my foot the revs were fluctuating around 3k bak and forth never use to do this..and your spot on about the misfire ...it feels alot more like a missed beat when it fluctuates

i kinda understand what your saying about the injection figures too ..

the log is attached...
you know better.......where do you think a good place to start is?

caldirun
24-11-2010, 09:07 PM
cheers martin

ive done a log from standing and reving upto 3k revs, i have realised no matter how steady i kept my foot the revs were fluctuating around 3k bak and forth never use to do this..and your spot on about the misfire ...it feels alot more like a missed beat when it fluctuates

i kinda understand what your saying about the injection figures too ..

the log is attached...
you know better.......where do you think a good place to start is?
I asked before but you did not reply, have you changed the injector wiring loom, high consumption and rough running are common symptoms?

shak-b6
24-11-2010, 09:29 PM
I asked before but you did not reply, have you changed the injector wiring loom, high consumption and rough running are common symptoms?

apologies mate, looking back on 2nd page i missed it - sorry
yh i have been going through quite alot of threads relating to the the injector wiring.. i have not changed it yet

i just didnt want to go mad changing everything before knowing wot is the root cause of the issue - as this can end up being very expensive... but reading through some of the threads i found today the cost of a loom is only 50 quid so for wot its worth i do have it in mind to purchase one from tps on the weekend and fit it...untill then martin has been helping and analysing some of the logs i have been recording using vag com

any other ideas are appreciated, and will keep you updated on wot goes on with loom on the wk/end

cheers

martin1810
24-11-2010, 09:38 PM
The strange injection figures may well be due to the injection loom breaking down as Caldirun says. Given that the loom is alot cheaper than the cam or injectors, it is the best place to start. Have you seen a measuing block with injection quantity deviation. It should give a figure for each injector. Block 13 I think. Watching that for a bit at idle and when reving might give you more info.

shak-b6
25-11-2010, 11:24 AM
cheers, i will check the injection quantity deviation at lunch to see if i can spot any thing..

shak-b6
25-11-2010, 02:59 PM
did a quick log of the injectors against rpm (001 and 013) at lunch

abit confusing really, all are falling within values but are all different at any set rpm

i did one standing and reving log
and 2 logs to a petrol station and back

on the standing log injector i think injector 2 goes funny towards the end but it may be normal?

and when i do a graph of driving logs all injectors are injecting different values to one another.. again this may be normal or just the way i am interpreting the data

logs are attached

Qman5
25-11-2010, 06:43 PM
Are you sure that your rear brakes are not sticking?
My car wasn't going very well and I found that one rear brake had completely worn out (Apec, 20,000 miles, very poor) I put new brakes and discs (Mintex) on and it goes better, stops better and uses less fuel.

martin1810
25-11-2010, 07:59 PM
The latest logs all look ok. Even if the injection loom is breaking down and causing the odd miss-fire, I don't think it would raise fuel consumption that much. Change the loom and see.
Sticking brakes would of course significantly increase fuel consumption.

shak-b6
25-11-2010, 08:08 PM
i replaced all the pads and disc last week end with some brembo's, i did previously notice on the rear near side caliper had wore out the pad much more excessively than the off side. all the pistons seem to push back in ok and on flat spots with h/brake down i can push the car foward without much effort so i doubt it is the brakes.
but thanks for the pointer nyway
:beerchug:

shak-b6
25-11-2010, 08:22 PM
forgot to mention i will be checking all the charge pipes too as i am sure i hear a very odd noise from the front, may be a small leak in the charge pipes could be causing some of these problems?

ive noticed the bottom i/cooler pipe is covered in oil, even though it was cleaned when the new cooler was put on recently due to leaking seals on the sides.

there is no wooshing noises, but on occasions i will get some dusty smoke outa the back but normally no smoke (apart the little bit from the normal cold start i have always had)

i know some one advised when my cooler was leaking to slowly rev and feel around the pipes, is there a way to determine a leaking pipe using the vagcom?

cheers

martin1810
25-11-2010, 10:45 PM
You should be able to log boost. If boost was a problem you would have a fault code.

shak-b6
26-11-2010, 12:36 PM
thanks martin...

just ordered and reserved my loom from vw tps @ 46.05,

looking foward to fitting it tomarow to see the effect,

one thing i have observed over the last few days is when driving the car for over a couple of hours local the performance seems to get worse but only when the car is fully up to temp and alot of standing idle is involved - seems like you really have to push it hard to get it going and very poor mpg! cold start driving seems alot better

will let you know how it goes tomarow
:beerchug:

shak-b6
29-11-2010, 11:40 AM
Update,

Got round to fitting the loom yesterday, took me about two hrs in the freezing cold! thanks to the guys on this forum for the fantastic instructions

The result of the replacement loom is that there is a noticeable smoother running, but cold start it still seems to struggle and strts very rough and shaky. Motorway fuel consumption has gone.up to 45mpg on.my 20 mile drive to work, but my local mpg suffers but has improved between 27-30 mpg.

Is there anything else i can check? i feel the car is not as quick.as it use to be and sounds abit funny at times but cant put my finger on it.. maybe i could.do.some more logs?

Thanks

martin1810
29-11-2010, 12:31 PM
Remember it is alot colder now. You could do some new injector logs and maf/egr logs. Try to just log idle up to 3000 rpm. Maybe just do some cold ones to compare with hot ones.

shak-b6
29-11-2010, 01:19 PM
Remember it is alot colder now. You could do some new injector logs and maf/egr logs. Try to just log idle up to 3000 rpm. Maybe just do some cold ones to compare with hot ones.


cheers martin will do some when i get home tonight...

shak-b6
06-12-2010, 02:54 PM
sorry not got round to do a log, gonna try my best to do it tonight, been tied up with all sorts with this weather..

been going over my previous logs. just a question about my values on group 4 on the logs i have posted they seem to be well out some times during acceleration.. anyone know if this is normal :confused: im looking at the 4btdc-2atdc

Engine speed Spec start of inj. Spec inj. duration Synchro. angle
790-870 4BTDC-2ATDC 3-8 °Ck. -3..+3°Ck.
/min °ATDC CF CF
903 1.2 5.6 0
903 1.2 5.6 0
1134 0 6.6 -0.6
1113 2.5 7.7 0
1932 8.1 10.2 0
1407 0.9 5.6 -1.1
1701 3.7 7.7 -0.6
1323 0.6 0 -1.1
1386 9.6 9.7 0
1575 3.1 7.7 0
1722 2.8 7.1 -1.1
1806 3.4 6.1 -0.6
1869 3.4 5.1 -0.6
1869 3.7 2.6 -0.6
1848 3.4 -0.5 -0.6
1575 1.9 -0.5 -1.1
1386 0.9 0 -0.6
1407 5.9 8.7 -0.6
1512 4.7 8.7 -0.6
1554 2.8 7.7 -0.6
1554 1.6 5.6 -0.6
1428 1.2 0 -1.1
1281 0.3 0 -1.1
1092 0.6 0.5 -0.6
903 1.2 5.6 0
1344 0.6 5.6 -1.1
1323 11.5 9.2 0
1512 3.7 8.7 -0.6
1575 2.5 7.1 -1.1
1575 4.3 8.2 -0.6
1806 8.4 10.7 -0.6
2079 6.5 7.1 -0.6
2184 7.1 6.6 0
2184 5.3 3.1 -0.6
1995 4.3 1 -1.1
1764 2.8 -0.5 -1.1
1470 1.2 0 -0.6
1239 0.3 4.6 -0.6
1176 0.6 7.1 -0.6
1281 4.7 8.2 -0.6
1407 1.2 7.1 -0.6
1365 0.9 4.6 -0.6
1134 0.3 0 -0.6
987 2.5 7.1 0
1218 9.9 9.2 0
1512 7.4 9.7 -0.6
1743 3.1 7.1 -1.1
1764 3.1 4.1 -0.6
1638 2.2 -0.5 -1.1
1428 1.2 0 -0.6
1218 0 0 -1.7
1155 3.1 7.7 -0.6
1407 8.1 9.2 -0.6
1680 3.1 7.7 -0.6
1722 2.8 3.1 -1.1
1617 2.2 0.5 -1.1
1449 1.2 0 -0.6
1239 0.3 4.6 -0.6
1344 6.2 8.7 -0.6
1659 5.9 8.7 -0.6
1911 6.2 8.2 -0.6
2058 4.7 4.6 -0.6
1953 4 -0.5 -1.1
1743 2.8 -0.5 -0.6
1365 0.9 0 -1.1
1197 0.6 6.6 -0.6
1386 3.4 8.2 -1.1
1323 0.6 0 -1.1
945 1.2 5.1 -0.6
1008 8.1 8.2 -0.6
1176 0.3 7.1 -0.6
1197 0.3 6.6 -0.6
1323 5.3 8.7 -0.6
1512 3.1 8.2 -0.6
1701 7.8 9.2 -0.6
2058 8.7 9.7 -0.6
1344 13.3 11.7 0
1533 10.9 13.3 -0.6
1701 7.1 9.7 0
1785 4.7 7.7 -0.6
1827 3.4 6.6 -0.6
1827 3.4 6.6 -0.6
1827 3.4 5.6 -0.6
1806 3.1 4.1 -1.1
1743 2.8 6.1 -0.6
1743 2.8 4.1 -1.1
1701 2.5 6.1 -0.6
1680 2.5 6.6 -1.1
1701 2.5 6.6 -1.1
1722 2.8 6.1 -0.6
1701 2.5 5.6 -0.6
1680 2.5 5.6 -1.1
1638 2.2 4.6 -0.6
1575 1.9 4.6 -0.6
1512 1.2 4.1 -1.1
1407 0.9 0 -0.6
1323 0.6 5.1 -1.1
1239 0.3 0 -0.6
1155 0.3 4.1 -0.6
1008 1.2 3.6 -0.6
882 1.2 5.6 -1.1
903 1.2 5.6 -1.1
1050 2.5 7.7 -0.6
1197 1.2 7.7 -0.6
1428 10.5 10.2 -0.6
1806 7.8 9.7 0
2142 8.4 9.2 -0.6
1386 10.5 9.7 -0.6
1575 8.4 10.2 0
1680 2.8 7.1 -0.6
1722 2.8 4.6 -0.6
1638 2.2 3.1 -1.1
1554 1.9 -0.5 -1.1
1449 1.2 0 -1.1
1365 0.9 0 -1.1
1260 0.3 0 -1.1
1134 0.3 0 -1.1
1029 0.9 0.5 -1.1
945 1.2 1.5 -0.6
882 1.2 5.6 -0.6
1239 0.3 4.6 -1.1
1197 0 5.1 -0.6
1155 0.3 5.6 -0.6
1176 2.5 7.7 0
1323 3.7 8.2 -0.6
1575 9 10.7 -1.1
1890 8.4 10.2 0
1869 3.7 -0.5 -1.1
1302 14.3 11.2 0
1449 11.8 13.3 0
1617 9.9 11.7 -0.6
1701 5.6 8.7 -1.1
1701 2.5 6.6 -1.1
1638 2.2 5.6 -0.6
1596 1.9 7.1 -1.1
1575 1.9 6.6 -0.6
1575 4.7 8.2 -0.6
1617 3.7 8.2 -0.6
1659 3.7 8.2 -0.6
1659 3.1 7.1 -0.6
1638 2.2 5.1 -1.1
1554 1.9 0 -1.7
1365 0.9 0 -1.1
1176 0 0 -1.1
1071 0.6 0.5 -0.6
903 1.2 5.1 -0.6
903 1.2 5.1 -0.6
903 1.2 5.6 -0.6
903 1.2 5.6 -0.6
903 1.2 5.1 -0.6
903 1.2 5.6 -0.6
903 1.2 5.6 -0.6
903 1.2 5.6 -0.6
903 1.2 5.6 -0.6



gonna do another log hopefully tonight to compare the figures, should i log the same groups as before, is there anything that can confirm the timing is ok on the engine using the software?
even though its not driving too bad

martin1810
06-12-2010, 04:14 PM
You need the same log, engine warm, start at idle and gently rise to 3000rpm and hold for a few seconds.
The 2nd column is your timing. It should be roughly 4 BTDC - 2 ATDC It should rise smoothly and steadily to roughly 18 BTDC-20 BTDC. The numbers aren't exact but as the revs rise you should have a smooth increase in injection advance.

The third column is injection duration and should follow a similar rising curve. Starting at about 5 +/- 3 and rising to about 20 +/- 4 Degrees. Again the numbers aren't exact but you should have a smooth steady increase.

The 4th column should remain constant at Zero plus or minus 3.

Your figures suggest a cam belt problem or worn camshaft lobes but you do need a nice 800 to 3000 comparison. A graph would be good. Revs vs inj start and revs vs inj duration.

shak-b6
06-12-2010, 08:43 PM
ive done two logs, one a fast buildup to 3k revs and one a slow build up to the same revolutions. See attached

did some graphs but looked well odd, still working on trying to create one that shows
a clear pic

will do some reading on symptoms of a worn camshaft and update back..

so far..

mixed performance - sometimes quick to respond, sometimes a very delayed response
on acceleration - abit like turbo lag

poor cold starting

poor fuel comsumption, best i got on a long run with steady foot 46mpg, local i get high 20's havent seen 30+ mpg local for a long while

abit of a shake around 70 - 80mph, balancing has been done

engine idle is slightly above the range at 903rpm

martin1810
06-12-2010, 09:35 PM
The slow rev chart is not to bad for injection start. You can see it advancing as the revs rise. I would have expected slightly higher figures though. The injection duration is all over the place. I hate diagnosis of mechanical things at a distamce, but my money is on worn cam and followers.

shak-b6
07-12-2010, 02:47 PM
The slow rev chart is not to bad for injection start. You can see it advancing as the revs rise. I would have expected slightly higher figures though. The injection duration is all over the place. I hate diagnosis of mechanical things at a distamce, but my money is on worn cam and followers.

appreciate your time and advise.

i have been reading about the camshafts on these blocks yest, from what i have read its down to poor design and mainly common on the 150's.. although there are a few ive found that 130 owners have had go on them.

do you think i can rule out the idea of timing being out, im guessing something else would not work or run properly...:confused:
and is there anything else i can check or monitor before i go down the cam route?

sorry for all q's, but ive been quoted over 300 quid for a camshaft only from vw, but seen lots of kits which include follwers,bearings and cam for around 200-250 on ebay are these any good - ive noticed some are steel and some are iron

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vw-Audi-Seat-1-9-TDi-pd-8v-camshaft-kit-inc-cam-bearing-/380273630919?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item588a131ec7

is it a hard job to replace the cam and followers, ive done a timing belt on a petrol civic before before but turbo diesels ive not touched apart from
the recent wiring loom, and general servicing, brake pad/disc replacements

thanks

martin1810
07-12-2010, 03:34 PM
It would be worth buying a timing peg kit, taking off the belt cover and timing it up with the pegs to check all is ok. One thing that is possible but I have never seen....The cam drive cog can be slightly adjusted (not to adjust the timing). It is held in place by three bolts. If these came loose you would get a strange effect on the timing. So I would check the belt first.

shak-b6
07-12-2010, 08:43 PM
cheers, any idea of where i can get the peg kit from?
im thinking of taking the cover off on the wkend and having a good look for the damage/wear
on the camshaft

martin1810
08-12-2010, 10:52 AM
Most motor shops stock them these days or good old ebay. There are two crank locks, you probably want the old rounded tooth one rather than the oval toothed one. This is the sort of thing you want.
http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/picture.php?albumid=724&pictureid=2690

You will also need a pin wrench.
http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/picture.php?albumid=724&pictureid=2691

stonedagain
08-12-2010, 07:18 PM
cheers, any idea of where i can get the peg kit from?
im thinking of taking the cover off on the wkend and having a good look for the damage/wear
on the camshaft
Got mine from Tool bay.

shak-b6
09-12-2010, 10:23 AM
cheers guys, gonna order one now

decided to get some prices on possible replacements after i can check everything:

cam, followers, barings and cam seal = 306 from aw engineering
cam belt kit and water pump = 152.30 with -45 for exchange w.p

and the normal service would be required...oil,filter

rang a vw specialist nearby for an idea of labour quoted me 312 for labour, gonna check first but next decision will be to eigther do it myself or just give it to chris - how hard of a job is it?, i know quite alot of time will involve taking off most of the front so i can work on the belt/cam.

will keep you updated

:beerchug:

martin1810
09-12-2010, 11:18 AM
If the cam is worn will will want to change all the things you list, at the same time. It is a nuts and bolts job, but you will need something to counterhold the cam pulley and something to pull the pulley off with, not that complicated but in this weather it might be better to let an expert do it, assuming they are an expert. I would say as a first attempt it will take you at least 2 days going carefully through the steps. Doing it yourself saves you £300 and you know you did it properly. If you are not confident, let someone else do it.

shak-b6
09-12-2010, 05:17 PM
im fairly confident on the timing belt side of things its just the camshaft that is holding me back abit - never done one before.
you say i will need something to hold/pull the pulley off with - do i have to buy a special tool for this or can i use something abit more familiar

the christmas break is coming up and could fit a few days to carry out the work.. it wouldnt bother me if it took more than a few days - i tend to do a couple of hours at ago whenever i carry out work

thanks for the pics of the pegs. just ordered em now with the pin wrench
......what will the pin wrench be used on?

martin1810
09-12-2010, 07:35 PM
You may or may not need the pin wrench for the tensioner if you do the belt. The odds are you will need it. If you are happy to do the belt, I don't see the cam being a problem. Main problem with the cam is holding it still to undo the cam hub nut and then finding a puller to pull the hub. If you send me an email address I'll send you some details to help. If you search youtube there are some great Hungarian videos of 1.9 pd cambelt change. I just watched one with the sound off.:D

shak-b6
10-12-2010, 11:13 AM
cheers


will have a look at those hungarian videos :biglaugh:

martin1810
10-12-2010, 02:13 PM
Details sent. Let me know if they don't arrive.

bk.bas99
25-01-2011, 02:23 PM
very intereting post...did you ever get to the bottom of the problem? was it cam or timing or was it something else?

shak-b6
01-04-2011, 10:07 AM
Apologies for the late response, been working abroad the last two months
Just catching up on everything.

Update on the issue:

I changed my timing belt and water pump ( thanks to martin for info provided ), fitted a egr delete pipe and the result was an increase in mpg on a long run but almost no increase on a short run, car still feels sluggish locally but saying this since my belt change i have another boost leak somewer and my flywheel is just about on its last legs, so more money to spent ;-( , unfortunatetly i think the cam change will have to wait a good few months

Cheers