Audi A4 2.5 TDI intermittent jerking problem

[SAJ4D]

So here goes, my first post on here after 5 years of trouble free motoring courtesy of my a4 2.5 tdi which last night came to a halt on the M6 near Birmingham, with me, my wife and my twin boys in tow!!

The background to the story is that one day travelling along the motorway, I felt what can only be described as a misfire from the engine, as if there were some sort of blockage in the fuel supply. I managed to get it off the motorway, but then all the way home, irrespective of speed etc the problem would intermittently reappear regardless of speed.
Since then, I found that normal inner city driving was fine, but on the motorway, usually after about 15 minutes, the problem would reappear. This has been going on until the events of last night unfolded.

So, after I stopped on the motorway, i tried restarting and it would hold revs, and if i revved it hard it would immediately cut out. other times, it would start and conk out straightaway. The RAC finally arrived and I had it towed home.

This morning, I started it up and it was fine all morning except that the coil light was repeatedly flashing. Took it around to a chap who has the machine for reading the codes, and the following codes were found :-

01376 - Rev Signal For Injection Pump
00550 - Injection Start Control

He told me of a place that specialise in diesel AMDiesel in West Bromwich (anyone used them?). So, he didnt reset the code, and the car would not start at all, when the code was cleared, the car started up and made it home no problem.

This is where I am up to. I have scoured the web for threads relating to this problem, but there are just so many competing theories, I thought it best to post here with my specific symptoms and codes, and see if any of you people have any suggestions...

I really hope its not the fuel pump, and in most cases I have read of, its only the fuel pump when the car just will not start, which is not the same as the problem I am having. I would appreciate if any one could suggest alternative problems that cause the symptoms I have described.

If anyone has any light that they could shed on this, it will be very gratefully received.

[adamss24]

It looks like the injector pump is on its way out ! Get in touch with dieselbob.co.uk wich is a respected diesel specialist and can refurbish your VP44 diesel pump for about 600 quid with full 1 year warranty. I would get a second opinion from someone with vag-com but, if the pump throws a code and the belt does not look like its slipped and everything looks ok under the covers then the pump its on its last legs...

[SAJ4D]

thanks for the quick reply. greatly appreciated.
I have a few questions though if I may.

1) Do I definitely have the VP44 pump?
2) Are these prone to go wrong around the 110K mile mark?
3) How easy, or difficult is it to check that the timing has slipped or not?


Thanks for your time.

[SAJ4D]

I found this page just now, which has left me wondering that it may indeed be the fuel pump on the way out :-

http://www.lbm.lt/Eng/audifc.htm

For the specific code (01376) here is what it says:-

Rev signal for injection pump Defective

This fault message is stored if the speed sender
in the injection pump is transmitting false
signals or no signal at all.

Possible Causes :- Injection pump defective

Symptoms :- Engine stops (safety cut-out)

Solution :- Renew Injection Pump


So, looks like I will have to bite the bullet and get the fuel pump replaced. Once I have done that, I will post back to let you know if it solved the problem.

[shark_90]

I recoded one of these with 113k on the clock for the local Bosch diesel centre only a couple of weeks ago. Remember that unless you get your actual pump refurbished you will need to adapt the new pump to your ECU otherwise the car will not start. If you/your diesel specialist gets stuck with this then I can sort it out for you.

[SAJ4D]

yeah thanks for that.

Would you be able to offer a service like dieselbob and actually refurb the fuel pump for me? if so how much do you charge?

[shark_90]

Unfortunately that's not something I'd do, I do more of the electronic stuff such as immobilisers and ECUs etc.

[SAJ4D]

hold your horses!!!

just had to dig a little deeper with this, dont really fancy having to pay for a fuel pump unless i really do have to.

I found this site :-

http://www.dieselpumprepairs.com/#/bosch-vp44-pumps/4533360090

Based in birmingham too which is handy.

As they put it : -

"Specialists in the economical repair of failed Control Boards on Bosch VP44 30/37 electronic diesel injection pumps, saving customers upto £1000 in replacement and fitting costs.
We offer the most cost effective and viable solution to the problem caused by pumps failing from control board issues. (99% of all failures are caused by failure of the electronic control unit)"


Can anyone please tell me if they have used these guys...... or a similar outfit. What credence is there to the claims of 99% of faults being attributed to electrical... especially in a fuel pump. Seems like these guys specialise in my specific pump ie the VP44.

Looking through the site, they are mail order only which is a bit of a shame.


I have to say though that the car. apart from the obvious problems of now cutting out, does run quite well immediately prior to the problem surfacing, and earlier today, once the codes had been cleared, the car was running as good as ever, although this was at under 1.5 k local driving.


It's because of this intermittent nature of the problem that I am so reluctant to go ahead and replace the whole fuel pump.

I will post back once I have had the electrics checked on my pump.....

[adamss24]

I have oppened a few of these pumps electronic control units and i tell you there is no way any shop will repair the PCB. They used platinum/silver conections and no solder that i know off will solder these thin wires. The only serviceable part insede the pump is the engine speed sensor on the diesel pump wich has a ribbon cable wich is known to snap, especially if the pump stays dry(as when you buy a pump off the shelf from a breaker) without diesel inside. I would say you bite the bullet and spend your dosh on a fully reconditioned pump wich will be again within tolerances and properly set-up on a testing bench. It takes about 4 hours to program the pump trough all working regimes so most of the labour its included in the price. On top of that you will get all new seals, bearings and cam plates fitted and brand new solenoids fitted as well. Trust me, i fitted lesser quality pumps refurbished in eastern europe by Bosch acredited garrages wich did not run right and failed within 8 months...because of cheap quality parts used. If you search the net, there are a few chinese companies wich offer every working part of the pump as spares...Wonder why the people use them ? Because they are cheap...and nasty ! I would say you go with a reputable garrage like PB Asher( herd good things about them) or DieselBob( i could swear by him as i used his pumps on a few of me own cars) wich is based in Preston if i still remember right. Also, if you let him know a week before he can build you a pump wich you can then pick up on the spot wile giving yours in exchange, or you could use mail order... You did not say what year your audi is as pre 2002 pumps dont need "codding". Actually all is needed is just adapting it to the ECU wich can be done with a cheapo vag-com cable off ebay !

[shark_90]

That's a point, I had it in my head that it was a B6 for some reason.

[kite]

Maybe because its in the B6 section !!!!

[shark_90]

Oh yeah!! I knew there was a reason! D'oh!

[SAJ4D]

yeah it is a 2002 B6 avant 2.5 tdi, sorry I forgot to mention that.

I actually phoned the dieselpumprepairs.com today, and he told me that the pump can be left on the car, and they have provided a video for how to take off the edc of the pump.
He said that the whole thing would take 5 days in total, possibly less, and quoted me approx. £300.00 to do the job. Thats probbaly what I would have to pay just to have the pump taken off and replaced.

They will test the edc, and report back failings and a quote for how much this is likely to cost. At that point, I can have it done or pay a £35.00 fee and have the brain returned to me.

So, do i try this, as this guy seems to think they are the only ones in the country who have the ability to do this. Has anybody else ever heard of them?

[adamss24]

take me advice and have your pump reconditioned AFTER getting a vag-com(aka VCDS) scan of the engines ECU. If the fault codes are still the same and the pump belt looks ok/tensioned properly then it means the pump is defective. Whats the point of doing funny testings to the ECU when you can have a pump "as new" for litle over that. Also, taking the control unit off the pump implies the use of special tools and dirt can/will enter the pump and will ruin the pump. Also taking the speed sensor off the pump is fidly and i dropped a screw inside wich did the pump no good once ! No way you will be able to recover something once it fails inside the pump...

[SAJ4D]

i have a question if you dont mind...

When i get the pump refurbished will anything be done to the edc unit at all?

[adamss24]

Nothing at all, the pump's controller is fresh so it will "code" itself to the ECU. You just need to get it to someone who knows what they doing as the pump needs setting dinamically with vag-com or similar.

[shark_90]

Nothing at all, the pump's controller is fresh so it will "code" itself to the ECU. You just need to get it to someone who knows what they doing as the pump needs setting dinamically with vag-com or similar.

If the electronics are replaced then the car will be immobilised which needs to be remedied by logging into the engine ECU with the SKC and entering adaptation channel 50. It will not code itself!

[adamss24]

If the electronics are replaced then the car will be immobilised which needs to be remedied by logging into the engine ECU with the SKC and entering adaptation channel 50. It will not code itself!
Brand new controllers dont need adapting to the ECU, only second hand ones will need codding or if they were matched to another car. If you dont believe me give dieselbob a call and he will explain to you what is needed to be done...maybe i am wrong but i fitted 1 of his pumps to a c5 a6 2003 and it needed no codding done. Mind the b6 might be different but as far as i know fresh factory ecu need no adaptation as they are codding as soon as you put the ignition on !

[shark_90]

I don't know if C5 A6s are the same.. never done one. I did one of these for a Bosch centre a couple of weeks back on a B6 A4 and the guy mentioned that they'd done A6s before no problem.

[SAJ4D]

hi guys,

ok you have dissuaded me from pursuing the repair of the edc unit.

I have it booked to go in to A.M Diesel Injection Services in west bromwich. I have it on good authority that these guys know what they are talking about.

Fingers crossed, it turns out to be a dodgy sensor or something other than the fuel pump. I will post the results as soon as I have them so stay tuned...

[SAJ4D]

ok...

so i took it to AM diesel in west bromwich. He told me there was a sensor related to the fuel pump which he replaced with no change in problem. Now he has told me he will need to strip the injection pump from the car and change a sensor which goes inside the fuel pump.....


anyone ever heard of this before..?

[adamss24]

That will be the engine speed sensor inside the pump. The casing needs to be open and the sensor is connected with a flexy ribbon cable wich needs soldering onto the main controller. If vag com show that the pump comunicates with the ECU and it receives over 12V from the ECU then its likely to be that sensor. Rather fidly job and if he is charging 300 notes for the job, i'll rather have the fully recconditioned pump from dieselbob ! At least that cames with 1 year warranty and it has a brand new ECU and adjiacent solenoids + fresh parts inside wich are prone to wear, like cam, bearings, bronze bushes, etc. Either way you will pay someone to take-it off and re-fit + time the pump. I wish you were a bit close to N. London as i could help you at "mates rates"... If you can tow the car to me i will be glad to help you fix the car !

[SAJ4D]

well hes actually charging me 5 bills for the job!!! I think that will include some sort of refurbishment of pump.
Its too much hassle now to get the car towed but I really appreciate the gesture, maybe next time i will get RAC to tow it to you.

[umair]

hi, i got audi a4 1.9tdi, i got almost same problem with my car, engine went dead and won't fire up at all, so i called green flag for roadside assistance, guy came checked few things under the bonnet, then he sprayed some thing in the air intake, very next minute engine started but didn't run for long and got cutoff again, i was told that maf sensor is not working properly, i took it to the garage and they told me there is something wrong with fuel injector and pump, and it is going to cost over £400 to fix the problem if the problem is what they think, if you come up with any solution for your car please do let me know coz no one knows the real cause of the problem, and no point spending money on guesses more like a toss of coin, whether its this if not then that

[SAJ4D]

OK, so its been over three weeks since my audi died on me, and in that time, the crank sensor has been changed, the injection pump sensor has been changed and still nothing.
In the end, the mechanic had singled the problem down to injection pump as he stripped it from the car and ran it on a test bench where he was able to replicate the error which occured once it got warmed up So...
If you get these codes
01376 - Rev Signal For Injection Pump
00550 - Injection Start Control

Just get your fuel pump changed and it will save you a lot of hassle. Anyways, pump was changed but the car still did not start. Mechanic told me it would have to go to Audi garage (towed) and they were quoting 120+VAT. Problem was that the new pump would have to be adapted to the ECU, a problem which is particular to this model B6 audi with the V6 engine.
Audi were saying they can book it in for some time next week blah blah

I decided to give Ben a call from shark perfomance http://www.sharkperformance.co.uk/

who earlier in this thread did actually say that I may encounter this problem. Well, he was spot on the money. He came down the next day, even though he was officially on holiday and he sorted the problem one time.
Car started up a treat and is driving nice (although this could just be because I have been driving a transit van for the last month!!)
He charged less than half what Audi were asking, and saved me money in towing fees, let alone the wait time. I heartily recommend their services to everyone as I have had first hand experience of their great customer service.

The above I have mentioned for the sake of completeness because trwaling through the forums, they are awash with people starting threads with problems, and then not bothering to update the thread once they have fixed their problem.
I hope that anyone who is unfortunate enough to encounter the problems I did, will find this thread and hopefully be in a better position as a result.

[toff]

The above I have mentioned for the sake of completeness because trwaling through the forums, they are awash with people starting threads with problems, and then not bothering to update the thread once they have fixed their problem.

Nice one Shark and nice one SAJ4D for the follow-up post.

Another example of this forum being a brilliant resource for info and help!

:beerchug:

Al.

[SAJ4D]

ok so i have had the inejection pump on a week and i have done about 200 miles mainly urban, little motorway.

On two seperate occasions, as I have pulled away, I have felt something which has caused the revs to jump up and the car to jerk for a split second......:confused:




any ideas if this is normal behaviour after replacing an injection pump, or could it be he has put the car back together wrong....

[SFirmstone]

Thanks for completing the update