143ps A4 VS 138 PS passat estate

[jonathon555]

Just went to collect a new car for my dad today, 100,000 mile 2006 Passat sport 2.0 tdi Estate (non Dpf)

I follwed him back in my A4 143ps car 5000 miles, that passat is real fast.

We swapped cars halfway back, the passat was a big chunk faster all round any gear especially in 6th.

I weighs 200kg more than the A4 & has 5BHP less it should not be faster or should it ?

[eob]

At only 5000 miles, your car will still be a lot tighter than the passat.
It's all about the torque, how do the torque figures compare?

And has it maybe been chipped? :firedevil

[jonathon555]

At only 5000 miles, your car will still be a lot tighter than the passat.
It's all about the torque, how do the torque figures compare?

And has it maybe been chipped? :firedevil
Thats the bummer my audi is chipped the passat isn't :(

my audi went head to head with an A5 170 the other day it is a straight match nothing in it.

[JamesMo]

Hi Jonathon,

My wife has a 56 plate passat 140 TDI and I know what you mean about it been "quick", however I don't think it's any quicker than my A4 - I think it's more to do with the way the power is delivered.

In the A4 with the CR engine the power delivery is much more linear, where as in the passat with the PD engine you get no power at all until about 1750rpm and then it starts to pull and by 2500 it really starts to fly.. The feel of the sudden rush of torque pushes you back in the seat a lot harder than the A4 ever does and I wonder if this is what makes it feel quicker?.

Also looking at the turbo's on the two cars the one on the VW looks bigger (though if I understand right it's not a complex piece of kit like the latest ones on the CR engines) - this might explain the power surge.

I will do a little comparison on a couple of sections of road locally and see if there is any noticeable differences in straight line performance - no point in trying round corners - the A4 blow it away!...

Cheers

J

[drmartin]

Thats the bummer my audi is chipped the passat isn't :(

my audi went head to head with an A5 170 the other day it is a straight match nothing in it.

Then there's something not right about the 'chip' you have in the Audi.. You 'should' be able to pull away cleanly from a 170bhp TDi until it gets to 3 figures, then the gap closes. Is the box ajustable, turned down perhaps?

The PD engine has a very narrow power band, and if your at the right engine speed in the right gear, it can be very rapid. My old DSG 140 sport with 120k on the clock would cover 0-60 in just over 7 seconds, 4 seconds better than it should, but the gearbox kept the engine in the power band. Interestingly sport mode made the car slower! raised the revs, which took it out of the power band.

With the A4 dont be afraid to rev it like a petrol, theres not the shove in the back like the PD, just liner power delviery all the way to 5500.. (before anyone mentions it, the red line is at 4500, but the engine actually kicks on bit harder at 4800!

For info I have - A4 170 Tdi tuned to 220bhp (25k on the clock)

[2.7 S-line]

My a3 2.0 tdi dsg was datalogged through plenty of 0-60 never cracked 9 seconds

[swivelonit]

my B8 is way slower than the the 130PD passat I had, it is as though the dpf restricts gas flow and chokes performance. It is well run in with 40K in 11 months

[2.7 S-line]

With the A4 dont be afraid to rev it like a petrol, theres not the shove in the back like the PD, just liner power delviery all the way to 5500.. (before anyone mentions it, the red line is at 4500, but the engine actually kicks on bit harder at 4800!

For info I have - A4 170 Tdi tuned to 220bhp (25k on the clock)


that's the diametric opposite of my experience with this engine

the power and the torque fade rapidly above 4000rpm see the graph below:

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr346/27sline/VAG20TDICR143PS-1.jpg

linear power delivery to 5500 ? look how the bph and torque nose dive at 4100 rpm (at the red arrows on the dyno graph ) revving to the red line is just plain silly in a diesel you get less power less torque and more engine wear

5500 rpm ? are you serious :confused: the power and torque by then are almost non existent - giving people advice like that is just ......:aargh4:

[onemanparty]

Just went to collect a new car for my dad today, 100,000 mile 2006 Passat sport 2.0 tdi Estate (non Dpf)

I follwed him back in my A4 143ps car 5000 miles, that passat is real fast.

We swapped cars halfway back, the passat was a big chunk faster all round any gear especially in 6th.

I weighs 200kg more than the A4 & has 5BHP less it should not be faster or should it ?


my B8 is way slower than the the 130PD passat I had, it is as though the dpf restricts gas flow and chokes performance. It is well run in with 40K in 11 months

Did you buy your A4 diesel's for speed :confused:

I'm sure there are a lot of factors to why PD Vs CR etc, etc

Real question is would like a Passat or an A4 !!!! Answers on a Post Card !!!!!

[drmartin]

that's the diametric opposite of my experience with this engine

the power and the torque fade rapidly above 4000rpm see the graph below:

linear power delivery to 5500 ? look how the bph and torque nose dive at 4100 rpm (at the red arrows on the dyno graph ) revving to the red line is just plain silly in a diesel you get less power less torque and more engine wear

5500 rpm ? are you serious :confused: the power and torque by then are almost non existent - giving people advice like that is just ......:aargh4:

I note that the you seam to be referring to the 143bhp engine which will have slightly different graphs from the 170, or as mine 220bhp... Also the graph cuts of 4500 which the CR engine does not. Haven driven a PD engine, it does fall of a cliff at 4k, but thats the PD engine.

As with Petrol, unless you have cubic capacity, RPM will allow the engine to do more work creating more BHP, torque drop off will occur but will be compensated by gearing to the wheels, Honda Civic springs to mind. Hence low torque high power engines are worked higher up the rev range i.e. motor bikes.. If you notice VW are moving the dial indicated red line to 5k, not the traditional 4.5k. Look at the new Golf TDi for example. This is also running lower compression than engines that are designed to generate torque from lower revs which tend to be longer stroke, therefore lower max RPM<

For me higher power is occurring higher up the rev range and I am exploiting it. (sometimes)

Regarding your point about engine wear. Static engines, gen sets and the like are set to run at peak power permanently which is normally 85% of the engines rated maximum RPM.

[2.7 S-line]

I note that the you seam to be referring to the 143bhp engine which will have slightly different graphs from the 170, or as mine 220bhp... Also the graph cuts of 4500 which the CR engine does not. Haven driven a PD engine, it does fall of a cliff at 4k, but thats the PD engine.


that graph is the current generation common rail engine as fitted in the B8 a4 :zx11: the reason the graph stops at 4500 is power is nose diving well before this - please either show me a diesel power/torque graph from any diesel on earth that picks up again after such a dive at the top of its power range - i'll give you a clue :YOU CAN'T

you claim this engine ie the 143 2.0 TDI gives great power at 5500 - i can tell you it doesn't i drove one for 5000 miles last year i have also driven the older Pd and it behaves the same way at higher revs ie the power dies


the graph for the 170 is almost identical to the one above but moved 30bhp up the page - i'll post when i get home if you like - when tuned it behaves just like the tuned 140 shown above ie it dies at higher revs

if you want to make fantastical claims back it up - as i have backed up my statements - with evidence

if you have a magical tuning box that makes the 170 2.0 TDI give a linear power response to 5500 please show me the link to the manufacturer i'll be happy to contact them and ask for a copy of the dyno report for the box they offer.....

[kavithakrar]

woo hoo

[2.7 S-line]

Moi throwing my teddy out of the pram... :D