Bioethanol

[Zeb]

Hi,

Have any of you guys used bioethanol on your cars? Have heard it increases performances as in BHP anf torque.

Is there any Bioethanol stations in the South-West area?

[adamss24]

They are mixing it with regular petrol to increase the cetane rating but i would not use-it on a regular basis as it will burn the valve seats on its own. Bit like the old cars wich needed tuning to run on unleaded fuel ! I would rather do an LPG conversion than run on bioethanol as it will be a bit easy on the engine.

[Crasher]

As it has a lower calorific value than petrol, ethanol at any greater concentration than 5% (E5) needs to be accompanied by an increase in fuelling, so that would increase your fuel consumption. E15 may become more common in the future with E85 a good target IF large quantities on second generation bio fuels can be produced, that is bio fuels that don’t take the food out of peoples mouths or result in deforestation. If we could produce enough second gen bio fuels, colloquially known as “Grassoline”, the other alternative forms of fuelling vehicles would become superfluous overnight.

[Zeb]

They are mixing it with regular petrol to increase the cetane rating but i would not use-it on a regular basis as it will burn the valve seats on its own. Bit like the old cars wich needed tuning to run on unleaded fuel ! I would rather do an LPG conversion than run on bioethanol as it will be a bit easy on the engine.

Rumours were going on, that it is better than petrol and diesel fuels.
So I was thinking I would use bioethanol instead, but I think I will stick with diesel. LPG, would it perform much better on long journeys and is it expensive to install it?

[Crasher]

The performance advantage of Bio ethanol is its higher octane number which means it can accept higher boost (on forced induction engines) and more ignition advance plus it has a cooling effect on the inlet charge which also allows more boost and advance. The downside is more fuel is required so the consumption is higher and range reduced.

[adamss24]

Rumours were going on, that it is better than petrol and diesel fuels.
So I was thinking I would use bioethanol instead, but I think I will stick with diesel. LPG, would it perform much better on long journeys and is it expensive to install it?
Corect me if i am wrong but, what engine you have petrol or diesel ? Bio-ethanol will work with a petrol engine dont think it will work on its own on a diesel engine? I heard of propane injection on big rigs as its makes the diesel burn much cleaner and give a lot more power but will melt pistons if not set properly ! LPG injection works only on petrols on its own but you still need to start and purge the lines every time on petrol. The same with a diesel engine when running a Waste Vegetable Oil system ...you start on diesel, get the engine to operating temp. then switch on WVO.

[Zeb]

My car is a 1.9 TDI 130PD engine.

[adamss24]

Just keep running it on derv diesel as even biodiesel will invalidate the warranty ! I think you confused biodiesel with bioethanol, 2 completely different fuels. Biodiesel is just that, made by "ester-ising" straight/clean vegetable oils (maily rapeseed oil) and it will have much lower emisions(less co2). On the other hand, bioethanol is made out by fermenting betroots, (and a few more plants with high sugar content) and the alcohool(ethanol) resulted will burn clean in a petrol engine. As the chemistry teacher pointed out(Mr. Crasher!) its higher cetane rating makes for a very good fuel for petrol cars but will increase consumption. If a turbocharged engine will run on ethanol(some race engines do) the ECU can advance timing much more than when running on fosil fuel. It can only retard the timing to the point of pinking/detonating but it will increase the wear on valves and valve seats + will require increased piston cooling. The key to lower intake temp. is to have a bigger intercooler and to increase fueling to the point of running rich. Then the ECU will retard the timing some more to keep the air/fuel ratio(each degree advance increases the piston temp further !) and something will let go- usualy pistons melt. Petrol engines have active cats and their design does not support running lean(fsi engines do up to a point!) like a diesel engine can (wich is built much stronger from cast iron or with forged steel cylinder liners)+ they have a air controlled throttle as oposed to the fuel controlled speed on diesel . If you intend to run your motor on biodiesel(wich i wont recomend !) i suggest you change fuel filters more often as the biodiesel is a very good solvent and will wash all the crap from the fuel lines and will clog the filter. Also the normal rubber seals will swell and you may/will have uncontroled fuel leaks. Vag group upgraded the seals to Vuiton(special rubber) seals wich wont swell like ordinary rubber but its not clear at wich point in time. Look in the factory manual to see if there is any mention of using biodiesel. The engine might be fine but later PD engines were'nt approved to run on biodiesel due to warranty recalls.

[Zeb]

Just keep running it on derv diesel as even biodiesel will invalidate the warranty ! I think you confused biodiesel with bioethanol, 2 completely different fuels. Biodiesel is just that, made by "ester-ising" straight/clean vegetable oils (maily rapeseed oil) and it will have much lower emisions(less co2). On the other hand, bioethanol is made out by fermenting betroots, (and a few more plants with high sugar content) and the alcohool(ethanol) resulted will burn clean in a petrol engine. As the chemistry teacher pointed out(Mr. Crasher!) its higher cetane rating makes for a very good fuel for petrol cars but will increase consumption. If a turbocharged engine will run on ethanol(some race engines do) the ECU can advance timing much more than when running on fosil fuel. It can only retard the timing to the point of pinking/detonating but it will increase the wear on valves and valve seats + will require increased piston cooling. The key to lower intake temp. is to have a bigger intercooler and to increase fueling to the point of running rich. Then the ECU will retard the timing some more to keep the air/fuel ratio(each degree advance increases the piston temp further !) and something will let go- usualy pistons melt. Petrol engines have active cats and their design does not support running lean(fsi engines do up to a point!) like a diesel engine can (wich is built much stronger from cast iron or with forged steel cylinder liners)+ they have a air controlled throttle as oposed to the fuel controlled speed on diesel . If you intend to run your motor on biodiesel(wich i wont recomend !) i suggest you change fuel filters more often as the biodiesel is a very good solvent and will wash all the crap from the fuel lines and will clog the filter. Also the normal rubber seals will swell and you may/will have uncontroled fuel leaks. Vag group upgraded the seals to Vuiton(special rubber) seals wich wont swell like ordinary rubber but its not clear at wich point in time. Look in the factory manual to see if there is any mention of using biodiesel. The engine might be fine but later PD engines were'nt approved to run on biodiesel due to warranty recalls.

Thank you for the info, really do appreciate it and Crasher too! :)

Short answer, I always thought that bioethanol will work on any vehicle, thats why asked.

I guess its better using diesel fuel cleaner with normal diesel?
which will make the car perform better?