Audi 80 1.9Tdi 90hp 1Z VS 1.9Tdi 110hp. NOISE issue...

[HF1600ie]

Hi.
I have 2 cars at the moment. One is a Seat Ibiza with the 1.9Tdi AFN 110hp engine. The turbo is a VNT15/17.

The other is an Audi 80 1.9Tdi 90hp Avant, 1Z engine. The turbo is a GT15.

Well, keeping the turbo issues apart from the discussion... does any one know why the audi engine a lot noisier than the 110hp ?
Neither of them has an engine cover. The Seat 110hp has a "normal" diesel engine noise, and doesn´t produce hesitations/vibrations....
But in the Audi, i can hear easily the " clak clak clak tak tak tak " noise while operating, and produces a lot more vibrations in specific revs (specially the lower ones).

Any ideias on this? I´ve thought on the Injector Pump timing may be too advanced in the Audi , has it´s value in Vag.com is 78 !

But, may the valves ? Or the cam followers or lifters? I heard that damaged lifters may produce this kind of noise.

I´ve also made a comparison bettween them, with the hood open , and working at the same time.

Even the engine code is the same in both engine (serial number near the 3rd injector).
Injection pumps may be different, but i believe they´re both Bosch VP37 and dont think that it would make that big difference about the noise issue. They´re both direct injection.

Thanks!

[ini]

Apart from the fact that the Audi 80 engine is probably older than the Seat 110, one of the main noise issues with the VAG direct injection engine can be worn 'hydraulic lifters', or even worn injectors.

My A4 TDI 110 sounds like a tractor. :D

[HF1600ie]

Hi,
many thanks for your reply.
Well, my injectors are almost new and were cleaned. They are PP502 nozzles in 110hp injector body! Have tried them before in other car and are in good condition.

I really suspect that the hydraulic lifters can be really worn. Hope the valves and cam are ok.
As you say, the car sounds like a tractor. Better, it sounds like an OLD non-turbo Diesel Engine :mad: . I think you know what i mean. It sounds and "feels" like it when you drive it, because you feel the vibrations in the car and the sound is so like it.

What else could it be? I dont think it´s the injector pump. The car "works" fine and the idle is stable. Even the vag-com value for the timing (78), i dont think it justifies what i am complaining about.

cheers :beerchug:






Apart from the fact that the Audi 80 engine is probably older than the Seat 110, one of the main noise issues with the VAG direct injection engine can be worn 'hydraulic lifters', or even worn injectors.

My A4 TDI 110 sounds like a tractor. :D

[Stevef.]

Are both cars using the same oil? are the nozzles the pp520 frantelli bosio ones if so do you know where you can get them from as ive been looking for some.

[HF1600ie]

I am using Mobil super S for turbodiesel 10w40. The car is 182.000km , and i have no idea if they are real. I have no reason to say yes, neither to say no...

About the nozzles, they came from my other car. The model is PP502 , not PP520. I am not sure where to get them, but isn´t there a webpage?

You can to this forum : http://www.ibizaclubpt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16355

Have a word with the user "fbau". I think he can tell you more about it.

Ps - Sorry about mentioning other forums, just wanted to help. :o

Any more ideias about what can cause this horrible tractor noise in my engine? Anything in the combustion chamber?

cheers



Are both cars using the same oil? are the nozzles the pp520 frantelli bosio ones if so do you know where you can get them from as ive been looking for some.

[Stevef.]

Hello again, I had a petrol 205 gti about 10 years ago with worn big end bearings that sounded like a diesel.

[HF1600ie]

hmm, i hope that´s not my case :o
Thanks for you reply.

Anyone else has a clue about it?

cheers



Hello again, I had a petrol 205 gti about 10 years ago with worn big end bearings that sounded like a diesel.

[tornadored7]

Hi,

Not absolutely sure, but I thought that the 110 BHP AFN, had higher injector pressures than the 90 BHP 1Z ? I believe

Higher Injector pressures should ;

Increase fuel atomisation
Lower emissions
Improve power
Decrease noise.

No, just checked 1Z and AFN both have 190 Bar opening pressures. So it's not that !

But there are lots of other factors, including one of your suspects ... the timing.

TR7

[ini]

On that note, one of the cars is running 'very large' 0.232 PP502 nozzles, and has much more fueling at all revs (probably the Audi).

The other car is presumably running standard 0.184's.

[tdi till I die]

hello all
im looking through all the forums to try and identify a similar range of probs as me!
I have currently 2 mk3 golf tdis one is m plate 140k on the clock the other is mk3 80k. My older car is quieter from the top end, less tapping and clattering, sounds like something is a bit flappy and loose on the lower mileage car. Its a mechanical tapping, not a knocking or thudding (eg, pipes on bodywork, loose covers, etc.).
I have had the flashing glow plug light and had its ecu diagnosed today, needle sensor issue.
Most of the probs i am having, noise, ecu light, bad economy, low boost, crap power are linked to an issue with this injector/sensor on quite a few threads on this forum.
So maybe get that checked out? - should be a fault logged on the ecu.

[HF1600ie]

Thanks everyone. I have sold the car due to other problems.
The car also had oil burnout sometimes.

Thanks everyone for sharing ideas. Anyway, the 1Z engine is by itself noisier that the AFN 110hp. That´s the way they are!

Cheers

[UltraAleks]

Hi HF1600.
You had two TDI cars.
A 90 hp and a 110 HP one .
IS there a lot of power difference betwen those two models?
I have AUDI 80 b4 TDI 90 HP , I have driven many Audi A4's B5 TDI 90 hp I i think B4 is more agile than the A4, is that the case with your cars???
cheers

[HF1600ie]

Hi there.
Well, i had a Seat Ibiza GTTDi, 110hp, then an Audi 80 TDi 90hp B4, and now i have an Audi A4 TDi 110hp B5.

The quickest of the them all was the Seat. Is the lightest one ! Best handling and best fuel consuption. Same engine ( AFN ) has the A4 110hp.

Then, the most confortable seemed to be the Audi 80 B4 (probably because the springs were higher than the ones in the A4, which is the sport version).

When comparing the Audi 80 90hp and the A4 110hp in terms of performance, the A4 is quicker, has better torque , and overall response, due to larger injectors and to the fact that the turbo is a VNT15 , not GT15 . Then , the ECU map is obviously different too. Fuel consuption is barely the same as the Audi 80 90hp.
I have never drove an A4 with 90hp, although there are some here in Portugal, but most of them are 110hp and 115hp. As far as i know, they have the same weight : 1360kg.
They should have the same performance. Unless the gearbox ratios are different, or one is upgraded when compared to other (without knowing) : like remap Ecu or nozzles.

[UltraAleks]

I don't know what is happening.Maybe mine Audi is tuned from previusly owners.I got it last two years.I don't know how to check that.