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NeilA8
09-07-2009, 01:46 PM
Hello,

I have a fault with my Advanced Key and One-Touch Memory, which has now got me stumped and I'd like to see if any of you have any ideas before I pay Audi lots of money. The fault manifests itself thus:

* The car cannot be unlocked from the outside from either key or from any door using advanced key. Using the unlock buttons on either key works fine.
* The car cannot be locked from the outside using the locking buttons on any of the doors and with either key present. Using the lock button on either key works fine.
* The engine cannot be started using the start button with either key present in the car. Using either key in the ignition lock works fine. The stop button will stop the engine.
* The one touch memory cannot be programmed via MMI - Car - Users - User 1 - Select Finger. The error message "Communication error. Please try again." is displayed immediately on selecting a finger. If the start button is already pressed while selecing a finger the message "Please release identification sensor." is displayed. On releasing the start button "Communication error. Please try again." is displayed.

The 05-Acc/Start Auth module has a stored fault code indicating "Electrical Fault in Circuit". The 1D-Driver Ident module has no stored fault codes. Both parts 4E0 909 131 C (the Acc/Start Auth and Immobiliser) and 4E2 905 218 (the Driver ident module) appear ok visually and so do their electrical connections. (Fault codes listed below.)

Measuring blocks from the Acc/Start Auth module indicate that the door handles, lock buttons and proximity sensors operate correctly, with none stuck on, except for the passenger door proximity sensor which does not detect proximity at all. I have not found any measuring blocks that display values from either the external or internal advanced key antennas. Measuring blocks indicate there are three keys with status 11000000 (I presume these are my two advanced keys and the plastic spare), that there are 3.0 adapted keys and that START 1, START 2, STOP 1 and STOP 2 are detected correctly.

Causing the Driver Ident module to output a simulated identification for a user causes a correct memory recall in seats, steering wheel, mirrors, aircon and radio. Scanning measuring blocks from the Driver Ident module while attempting to learn a new finger (when the MMI displays "Communication error") causes VAG-COM to loose it's connection to the module.

I think I have two separate problems:
* The Acc/Start Auth & Immobiliser cannot detect the advanced keys for some reason. Maybe there's a fault with a connection to an antenna?
* The Driver Ident module cannot read a fingerprint. Maybe the module is faulty?
The two modules can see each other, at least in part, as shown from measuring blocks.

I guess my current questions are:
* What does the "Electrical Fault in Circuit" from the Acc/Start Auth & Immobiliser mean?
* What does the "Communication error..." displayed on the MMI screen mean?
* Is there some way of seeing data from the advanced key antennas?

The car is a rather lovely 2003 Audi A8 D3/4E 4.2 Quattro.

Thanks for reading and I hope someone has some suggestions for me, :-)

Neil
 

 
VCDS Version: Release 805.4
Data version: 20090602
Tuesday,30,June,2009,14:22:31:51323
Chassis Type: 4E0
Scan: 01 02 03 05 06 07 08 09 15 16 17 19 1D 1E 25 34 36 37 38 42
46 47 4F 52 53 55 56 57 61 62 67 72 76 77
VIN: WAUZZZ4EX3Nxxxxxx Mileage: 106850km/66393miles

00-Steering Angle Sensor -- Status: OK 0000
01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
05-Acc/Start Auth. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
06-Seat Mem. Pass -- Status: OK 0000
07-Control Head -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: Malfunction 0010
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
1D-Driver Ident. -- Status: OK 0000
1E-Media Player 2 -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
34-Level Control -- Status: OK 0000
36-Seat Mem. Drvr -- Status: OK 0000
37-Navigation -- Status: OK 0000
38-Roof Electronics -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
47-Sound System -- Status: OK 0000
4F-Centr. Electr. II -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
53-Parking Brake -- Status: OK 0000
55-Xenon Range -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
57-TV Tuner -- Status: OK 0000
61-Battery Regul. -- Status: OK 0000
62-Door,Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
67-Voice Control -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
76-Park Assist -- Status: OK 0000
77-Telephone -- Status: OK 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. Labels: 4E0-910-131.lbl
Part No SW: 4E0 910 131 HW: 4E0 909 131 C
Component: FBS AUDID3 H01 0070
Revision: 00703201 Serial number: AUX3Z0C0307246
Coding: 0411648
Shop #: WSC 02311 785 00200
Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX
Component: ELV XXXX
1 Fault Found:
00003 - Control Module
012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101100
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 0
Reset counter: 106
Mileage: 106848 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2009.06.30
Time: 11:09:54
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 1D: Driver Ident. Labels: 4E0-910-218.lbl
Part No SW: 4E0 910 218 HW: 4E2 905 218
Component: FPI_1 H04 0050
Revision: 05000104 Serial number: 17012003210023
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
No fault code found.
 

 
In the above:
* The engine fault is a faulty connection to and engine mount.
* The Auto HVAC fault is a defective air quality sensor.
* 25: Immobilizer displays the same fault as 05: Acc/Start Auth, presumably as they are the same unit.

a8 tech
09-07-2009, 07:46 PM
Very common kessy control unit failure situated under the drivers seat.Don t discard the remote fob batteries and makes sure the green led flickers when you are within 1 meter of the vehicle

ddress 05: Acc/Start Auth. Labels: 4E0-910-131.lbl
Part No SW: 4E0 910 131 HW: 4E0 909 131 C
Component: FBS AUDID3 H01 0070
Revision: 00703201 Serial number: AUX3Z0C0307246
Coding: 0411648
Shop #: WSC 02311 785 00200
Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX
Component: ELV XXXX
1 Fault Found:
00003 - Control Module
012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101100
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 0
Reset counter: 106
Mileage: 106848 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2009.06.30
Time: 11:09:54

Check the mmi sw version for drivers function and update it but before you update record all the adaption channels in address 07 so you can re apply the mmi functions after updating the zug bus levels for the mmi network but the kessy control unit appears defective from where I am.
I would book your car into your local audi dealer and ask them to update the mmi to the recently released final 2G (SW 5570)update then retest all the above and then take it from there

NeilA8
09-07-2009, 08:47 PM
Thanks for your response.

I changed batteries in both keys a week ago. One was flat and need replacing. The green LED only flashes when I press and hold a button in the key; it does not flash when I'm near the car, even if I touch or lift a door handle.

I presume the control unit is the one I found under the passenger seat, considering my driver's seat is on the right.

My MMI version is 5570 already, as I'm installing AMI. It was version 770 before. The advanced key and fingerprint reader don't work before or after the upgrade. Incidentally, setting Car - Systems - Seats - Drivers Seat - One-touch Memory to 'on' immediately changes back to 'off'; setting Remote Key to 'on' works fine.

I didn't note the adaption channels in address 07 before I upgraded MMI as I did not realise I should have. Is there anything there that I should check?

I can see there's a fault somewhere but I wasn't sure if it was in the module or some wiring near it. The driver identification module problem also confused me as it's not actually registering a fault.

a8 tech
09-07-2009, 09:01 PM
ADDRESS 1D and 05 ARE ONE AND THE SAME FROM MEMORY.Check supply voltage 30 and 15 and earth 31 but as you have comms with 05 the can is fine and in fact so is 30,15 and 31 so it suggests the control unit is defective if all the aerials are receiving the signal from the remote and the remote is in good order then internally there is a defect which isn't uncommon for this vehicle.Drivers id sends can signals to Address 07 mmi control unit so if the kessy has failed its plausible there is no data transmitted for driver specific functions recorded by 05 for personal settings stored from the remote.
Adaption channels store user functions and mmi display systems such as battery display and other functions found so if you have missing mmi menu items then this is the reason why

NeilA8
09-07-2009, 09:55 PM
It looks like 05 and 25 are the same (the unit under the seat) and 1D is the fingerprint sensor. Your logic about the supplt voltage is sensible so I'll assume that's ok.

However, I'm not sure if the aerials are receiving a signal from the key because I haven't found a measuring block for them, though it is odd that none of them work.

The Driver ID is directly on the convenience CAN so I think it's a bit odd that the 05 gets involved in the fingerprint learning proceedure between 07 and 1D.

It is looking like it's going to need to pay an expensive trip to Audi.

skahak
29-11-2013, 09:51 AM
Hi.
I have an A8L, 2008 3.0 TDI. MMI 5570
I have a similar problem and can`t get the user ID/fingerprint recognizer to work. When I`m trying to store a fingerprint by pressing down the switch nothing happens The fingertip image in MMI also does not turn white as it looks like in the MMI manual. When I press down the rotary selector wheel the fingertip turns white for a second before the message "system error- please try again" appears. When I`m trying to set seat memory in MMI/" one-touch memory" to "on" it goes immediately back to "off". This could be because there is no user recognized yet, I guess?
I have also tried to do this procedure after erasing the fault code in driver ident but no luck.
Attached my complete VCDS scan and also some values from "1D-driver ident"
I have seen some similar posts and I started one myself some time back but that was before I got VCDS and before I updated MMI. but I`m still not able to figure this one out.
I have changed the battery with a Varta battery bought outside Audi system so I couldn`t code it properly. It was a newer/better type of similar capacity, AGM technology and since I didn`t had the P/N and S/N I just changed the S/N last digit in VCDS. It works fine in all aspects and this problem was the same before battery change.
Anyone with tip/tests or useful links?
Regards
skahak