Start / Stop - How it works

[onemanparty]

After people complaining about Start / Stop yes that is Start / Stop not Stop / Start - BMW have Stop / Start and Audi Start / Stop!!! I thought some people would like to know how it works

Start / Stop only works when

A trailer is not attached

Drivers Doors and bonnet are closed & Seat belt is buckled (No Brainer)

Switching the system off

The Start / Stop will need to be deactivated every time the car is turned on.

The Engine will not switch off if any of the following happens

The Engine is still cold

A/C is still trying to reach the selected temperature

Exterior Temp is Very High or Low

Windscreen defrost is on

Battery is low

Car is on a steep gradient

The Engine will start again if

The Car starts to roll

Windscreen defrost is selected

You turn up the A/C to a high or low setting

Brake pedal is pressed several times in Succession

Power consumption is too high

Battery charge is low

BMW system is not the same as the Audi one BMW are using Generation 1 and Audi will be using Generation 2 all made by Bosch

[ScottyUK]

Good news and good info.

I was always told to steer clear of any version 1 stuff ;)

[jonathon555]

that system sounds alot better than the bmw system its rubbish

[Bristle Hound]

My wife's Mini Cooper had this (before she got sick of it and got rid!) :(

I thought it was very inconvenient, a right pain in the butt! :aargh4:

We both hated it! :mad:

I hope the Audi system is better. All the things the Audi does the Mini seemed to follow the same rules, so it doesn't seem that different?

I have heard that the Audi diesels equipped with the stop/start are a bit sluggish to respond to the start up, jus what I've heard mind! :D

[onemanparty]

I have heard that the Audi diesels equipped with the stop/start are a bit sluggish to respond to the start up, just what I've heard mind! :D

Heard from how? Only a handful of UK Dealers have driven the car - I have driven the BMW 320d SE with STOP / START and it was alright. It does feel odd but I can not see why a lot of people complain about it. After all it will be on every car within 3 years!!!

[Bristle Hound]

Heard from how?(surely how!)

Internal memo from Audi Germany. Only had sight of it mind, couldn't get a copy! :aargh4:

[The Polisher]

I've got a new A4 143 Tdi S line Exec Avant on order (manual) due for delivery in early August............ I'm assuming that mine will have this stop/start nonsense on it........ Grrrrrrr!!! :zx11:

Can someone explain how it works........ ie, when does it turn off, when does it turn on................???

Can't believe that I would have to deactivate it every time I get into the car..... surely there must be a way of overiding it permanently?

[MC09PJC]

Beginning in the second quarter of 2009, Audi will add a start-stop system and an on-board computer with an efficiency program to what it calls its modular efficiency platform. These new technologies complement the energy recovery system, already standard on many Audi models, which feeds energy back into the vehicle’s electrical system during deceleration phases.

The modular efficiency platform focuses on the further development of powertrain and transmission technologies, and the recovery and storage of mechanical, thermal and electrical energy. Audi also employs a number of measures to minimize driving resistance and optimize aerodynamics. By 2012 Audi plans to lower the fuel consumption of its model range by 20% compared with the 2007 level.

Start-stop. The start-stop system shuts down the engine once the car has come to a stop, the gear lever stands at idle and the driver releases the clutch pedal. Operating the clutch then starts up the engine again. The start-stop system is quiet, convenient to operate, and fast—the engine returns to idle speed while the driver is shifting gears.

Audi combines the start-stop system with efficient battery technology and energy management to maintain functioning even at low temperatures. The system is inactive during the warm-up phase of the engine, so that the engine oil becomes warmer and the exhaust gas cleaning systems reach their operating temperature faster. The driver can also switch off the start-stop system at any time by pressing a button.

In the standardized driving cycle, the start-stop system lowers fuel consumption by about 0.2 liters per 100 km, and therefore reduces CO2 emissions by around 5 g/km. The new system is being used for the first time in the Audi A3 1.4 TFSI with manual transmission and in the Audi A4 and A5 with two-liter engines and manual gearshift. Other models will follow this year.

On-board computer with efficiency program. The second newcomer in the modular efficiency platform is the on-board computer with the efficiency program, an addition to the Audi Driver Information System. All consumption-related data appear in the center display, with recommendations for efficient driving&madsh;up to 30% of fuel consumption depends on the individual driving style, according to Audi.

The efficiency program continuously analyzes the energy consumption in the vehicle and gives the driver up-to-date tips for saving fuel, depending on the driving situation and driving style.

The newly designed gearshift indicator signals to the driver when to shift, for optimal fuel economy: A large and color-coded display indicates whether the right gear is engaged, or whether shifting would be practical for the sake of efficiency. Comfort features like air conditioning and seat heating also increase fuel consumption. A specially developed display in the efficiency program identifies the systems requiring extra energy and indicates their share in fuel consumption.

Energy recovery system. The energy recovery system already uses deceleration phases to convert kinetic energy into electrical energy. When the car accelerates again, the battery directs the temporarily stored energy back into the vehicle, to relieve the alternator and thereby save fuel. The energy recovery system is already standard equipment on the Audi A3 1.4 TFSI with manual transmission, the Audi A4, A5 Coupé and A5 Cabriolet with two-liter engine and manual transmission, the A6 and the Audi Q5 and Q7.

[A1287210]

Now THAT is a post....welcome to the forum:beerchug:

[onemanparty]

Can someone explain how it works........ ie, when does it turn off, when does it turn on................???

Can't believe that I would have to deactivate it every time I get into the car..... surely there must be a way of overiding it permanently?

Please read the first post and No you can not override it permanently yet!!!!!

[gord115]

I understand you need a AGM type battery if the original fails.
Anyone know the exact one a 2.0T petrol uses? No mention of the make or type in the handbook.
A google search only shows the Varta F21, is this what Audi uses

[theskyfox]

Please correct me if I'm wrong..but I was also lead to believe that its only on the manual gearbox versions of the cars, and only turns off the engine if you put it into neutral as well?

-Andrew

[gord115]

Please correct me if I'm wrong..but I was also lead to believe that its only on the manual gearbox versions of the cars, and only turns off the engine if you put it into neutral as well?

-Andrew

Yeah! That's how mine works.

[eob]

Also, turning the steering wheel will restart the engine.

In MC09PJCs reply, it states that "Energy recovery system. The energy recovery system already uses deceleration phases to convert kinetic energy into electrical energy. When the car accelerates again, the battery directs the temporarily stored energy back into the vehicle, to relieve the alternator and thereby save fuel. The energy recovery system is already standard equipment on the Audi A3 (http://www.shopzilla.co.uk/rd2?t=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diytools.co.uk%2Fsealey-es200-08-adaptor-for-es200-audi-a3-seat-altea-toledo-skoda-octavia-2004-vw-golf-5.html%3Futm_source%3DAffiliate-Feed%26utm_medium%3DShopzilla%26utm_campaign%3DSho pzilla&mid=82371&catId=13457&atom=11415&prodId=&oid=4013703895&pos=1&bId=18&bidType=0&bAmt=8ce963fd28c815ed&cobrand=2&rf=af1&af_assettype_id=10&af_creative_id=6&af_id=11444) 1.4 TFSI with manual transmission, the Audi A4 (http://www.shopzilla.co.uk/rd2?t=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bookdepository.co.uk%2FAudi-A4-Petrol-and-Diesel-Service-and-Repair-Manual%2F9781844257430%3Fredirected%3Dtrue%26utm_m edium%3DShopzilla%26utm_campaign%3DShopzillaUk%26u tm_source%3DUK%26utm_content%3DAudi-A4-Petrol-and-Diesel-Service-and-Repair-Manual&mid=222598&catId=13734&atom=10932&prodId=&oid=4568069127&pos=1&bId=18&bidType=0&bAmt=8e6fc9110ff780c3&cobrand=2&rf=af1&af_assettype_id=10&af_creative_id=6&af_id=11444), A5 Coupé and A5 Cabriolet with two-liter engine and manual transmission, the A6 and the Audi Q5 (http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_nkw=audi+q5) and Q7."

Does this mean that my 2012 2.0 TDI with Start/Stop has Energy Recovery too? Because the fuel consumption on mine is still sh!t.

[tourer2]

What a joke Audi is for 'efficiency'! My A4 TDIe is OK in the summer when ambient temperature is above 15degC, but even then can't get anywhere near claimed mpg. When ambient temperature drops below 10degC it's a disaster. There is a serious design flaw with this engine; it is over-cooled and spends much of it's time at below optimum operating temperature. The effect of this is that economy in winter drops about 20% for journeys up to 10miles, 10-15% for journeys of a few tens of miles and by up to 10% for longer journeys. If you do mainly school runs, you're in trouble. Audi know about this cool running but say there is no fix for it, and it is due to 'low heat transfer', bad design I say.

As for start/stop, that's a joke as well. My system follows no pattern, it will work sometimes when the engine is cold and not work when the engine is hot, will work when clearly the heater hasn't warmed the car up and won't work when the car temperature has stabilized. The dealer has checked and says there are no faults, no it's just bloody useless.

Audi are good at talking the talk on fuel economy but from what I have seen, it's just that, all talk.

It's the first and last Audi I will have.

[theskyfox]

What a joke Audi is for 'efficiency'! My A4 TDIe is OK in the summer when ambient temperature is above 15degC, but even then can't get anywhere near claimed mpg. When ambient temperature drops below 10degC it's a disaster. There is a serious design flaw with this engine; it is over-cooled and spends much of it's time at below optimum operating temperature. The effect of this is that economy in winter drops about 20% for journeys up to 10miles, 10-15% for journeys of a few tens of miles and by up to 10% for longer journeys. If you do mainly school runs, you're in trouble. Audi know about this cool running but say there is no fix for it, and it is due to 'low heat transfer', bad design I say.

As for start/stop, that's a joke as well. My system follows no pattern, it will work sometimes when the engine is cold and not work when the engine is hot, will work when clearly the heater hasn't warmed the car up and won't work when the car temperature has stabilized. The dealer has checked and says there are no faults, no it's just bloody useless.

Audi are good at talking the talk on fuel economy but from what I have seen, it's just that, all talk.

It's the first and last Audi I will have.

Some interesting points there. Can I ask, do you have a comparison car in your head? or an "equivalent" car/engine/make combo that you deem "very good" at all the above points?

Only reason I ask, theres a few things in there that would generally be applicable to any car. I.e.:

-Diesel cars are never good for purely short runs. It doesnt matter if you are using a 1.7TDi Kia or a 4.2V8 A8...you aren't going to see low running costs on short journeys.
-Diesel engines are much more efficient than petrol engines and so a lot longer to warm up
-Warmup time depends on loading. An idle diesel will take a very very long time to warm up
-All cars will run rich and burn more fuel whilst cold
-All cars will burn more fuel in the winter, colder air is more dense therefore you need to inject more fuel to balance the combustion
-Start/Stop does not work at all whilst your engine is cold, and there is a host of conditions attached to this e.g. is the air-con on, is the rear-screen heater on..(its in the manual)

From what you've generally described above, you may even be better off with a petrol car. It would give you much quicker warmup times
and lower running costs on the school runs. You'd also avoid potential DPF issues. How many miles a year do you drive?

There has definately been plenty of debate on the published Audi figures, and it is generally accepted that they are not accurate. However, you should be able
to get reasonably close.

-Andrew

[Hex69]

It's always possible to match or exceed the stated economy in your car, just drive as if there's an egg beneath your right foot, and don't use the car for short journeys. It's not rocket science.

[tourer2]

Theskyfox, you make some valid points.

My journeys comprise very few short runs (thank God!), minimum is usually 20miles and I do quite a lot of runs from Scotland to Yorkshire; 13,000 miles per year average.

My previous car was a 2009 Mk 6 Golf 2.0TDI GT (not a Blue Motion, so no start/stop but did have the efficiency system). The summer mean fuel consumption (brim to brim tank fill, not onboard mpg) 55mpg, autumn/winter mpg (including the winter that had -10deg temps) 52mpg, to me that's acceptable. It's not true to say all diesel engines take a very long time to warm up, the engine almost always warmed up within 5miles and only ever once went below the normal operating temperature and that was with an ambient temperature of -13degC. VW one, Audi nil.

My journeys and driving style have not changed since getting the Audi, if anything I do less short runs. Equivalent comprehensive data not available yet for my TDIe as I have only had it from May and my observations are based on changes to journey mpgs and early brim to brim mpg since ambient temperatures have dropped. Also, the Golf gave average 94% of manufactures claimed figures whilst the Audi gives 84% - basically the claimed advantage in mpg is totally false. VW two, Audi nil.

The Audi dealer gave me all the crap about efficiency and 'it burns so little fuel it will take longer to warm up'; they didn't seem to listen to my Golf example, which is basically the same power plant. Of course all cars burn more fuel when they are cold, that's why they need to warm up quickly. Audi nil.

I have disabled the auxiliary heater on my car as this is another fuel wasting device so figures would be even worse with this on.

Start/stop DOES work on my car when the engine is cold, but not on every journey. To me, the most advantageous time to have the flipping device is when the engine is cold as this is when you get the greatest savings. I drove through Edinburgh recently with a warm engine and no ancillary devices switched on, the engine at normal operating temperature and through 10 stops, the bloody system didn't work once - useless. Maybe the VW syatem is the saem, I don't know but my gut feel is that it will better.

I agree with Hex69 and I do drive very conservatively (my wife keeps saying, 'why are we going so slow?'). However, this engine temperature thing has as much effect as driving style, and that can't be right.

I know Ford introduced variable position slats in front of the radiator on some of their cars to control air flow cooling and I am surprised Audi haven't picked up on this. Drivers in cooler European countries must have nightmares about their fuel consumption, just beats me why Audi let this happen. Maybe they will tell me when I get a reply. Vursprung durch tecnik, I don't think so.

[Hex69]

I know Ford introduced variable position slats in front of the radiator on some of their cars to control air flow cooling and I am surprised Audi haven't picked up on this.

The modern day equivalent of the tin foil on the grill!

And no, I don't mean this!!

18685

[theskyfox]

Theskyfox, you make some valid points.

My journeys comprise very few short runs (thank God!), minimum is usually 20miles and I do quite a lot of runs from Scotland to Yorkshire; 13,000 miles per year average.

My previous car was a 2009 Mk 6 Golf 2.0TDI GT (not a Blue Motion, so no start/stop but did have the efficiency system). The summer mean fuel consumption (brim to brim tank fill, not onboard mpg) 55mpg, autumn/winter mpg (including the winter that had -10deg temps) 52mpg, to me that's acceptable. It's not true to say all diesel engines take a very long time to warm up, the engine almost always warmed up within 5miles and only ever once went below the normal operating temperature and that was with an ambient temperature of -13degC. VW one, Audi nil.

My journeys and driving style have not changed since getting the Audi, if anything I do less short runs. Equivalent comprehensive data not available yet for my TDIe as I have only had it from May and my observations are based on changes to journey mpgs and early brim to brim mpg since ambient temperatures have dropped. Also, the Golf gave average 94% of manufactures claimed figures whilst the Audi gives 84% - basically the claimed advantage in mpg is totally false. VW two, Audi nil.

The Audi dealer gave me all the crap about efficiency and 'it burns so little fuel it will take longer to warm up'; they didn't seem to listen to my Golf example, which is basically the same power plant. Of course all cars burn more fuel when they are cold, that's why they need to warm up quickly. Audi nil.

I have disabled the auxiliary heater on my car as this is another fuel wasting device so figures would be even worse with this on.

Start/stop DOES work on my car when the engine is cold, but not on every journey. To me, the most advantageous time to have the flipping device is when the engine is cold as this is when you get the greatest savings. I drove through Edinburgh recently with a warm engine and no ancillary devices switched on, the engine at normal operating temperature and through 10 stops, the bloody system didn't work once - useless. Maybe the VW syatem is the saem, I don't know but my gut feel is that it will better.

I agree with Hex69 and I do drive very conservatively (my wife keeps saying, 'why are we going so slow?'). However, this engine temperature thing has as much effect as driving style, and that can't be right.

I know Ford introduced variable position slats in front of the radiator on some of their cars to control air flow cooling and I am surprised Audi haven't picked up on this. Drivers in cooler European countries must have nightmares about their fuel consumption, just beats me why Audi let this happen. Maybe they will tell me when I get a reply. Vursprung durch tecnik, I don't think so.

Ah Ok, 13k a year is about the same as me too. Both my parents have the VW Golf 2.0Tdi...fantastic car, and incredibly frugal. I think we could start a whole topic on rubbish that Audi dealers come out with at times. Would be interesting if you could post the official reply you get from Audi? Also wondering if this should be put into a new thread...and perhaps get some other TDie owner responses?

-Andrew