Running in

[GTMan]

Greetings one and all. This is my first post here, so please be gentle.

I have ordered a Golf GT 1.4 TSI DSG in White and hope to get it in August.

My question is, should I follow the manufacturers instructions and take it easy or work the engine (carefully) aka http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm or even http://www.ntnoa.org/enginebreakin.htm? This will ensure the piston rings are properly bedded into the cylinder walls.

There is also the way the engine management unit learns about the new engine. If you are too gentle with the engine at the start it may not know how to handle using max power later in life, it all depends on how the ECU was designed......

I am an electronics design engineer and used to work for Lotus so I know a little about the subject, but not enough! I wondered whether there are any mechanical design engineers out there (especially from VWAudi) who could comment?

[netherfield]

I was told that VW engines don't need running in,just work them straight from the word go.

In fact I think modern engines will suffer from being treated too gently it can glaze the bores.

[GTMan]

Whilst it is true that engine tolerances etc are much better these days reducing the need for "running in", the rings still need to provide a good seal to the cylinder wall and to do that you need gas pressure ie load. Unless VW (etc) actually do proper dyno running in, I cannot see how a new engine is completely ready for use.

The site suggests building the load/RPM up, albeit quite quickly and never to keep the same load/RPM for long. Only when this is done is the engine truly ready...

[lainux]

Hi just got myGolf MK6 TSI yesterday and was told to drive the car normally and that there is no need to run the engine.

[Griff449]

I would not be taking it past 5000 revs for the first 500 miles................ but as already been said there bench tested these days to take such tolerences from the word go. :)

[WeegieBob]

Hi just got myGolf MK6 TSI yesterday and was told to drive the car normally and that there is no need to run the engine.

I'm very warey of car sales people and their "technical expertise" advice, years of experience has taught me one week many of them are selling cars and a week later they're selling settees (which was a case in fact with my Toyota), or vice-versa. Unless they can prove to me that they are completely competent in mechanical engineering I assume they are just ordinary folks making a living.

This treat it like its ready to be run at any speed to me is foolhardy, our cars are an extremely expensive investment, so why take the chance of ruining it on the word of someone who might have arrived the week before you bought it and might be gone tomorrow? Me, I'll stick with treating the car with care, take my time building up the road speeds, certain in the knowledge I've done my best to ensure a reliable and mechanically sound vehicle for many years to come.

Call me old fashioned - but it works for me - its just a pity you can't buy "RUNNING IN" stickers any more from your local garage! :D

WeegieBob.

[elvismiggell]

I wonder whether dealerships have PI Insurance?

Though that said it's probably very hard to prove that not being run-in properly has caused a problem.

[maisbitt]

This all depends on how long you're planning on keeping the car and the economy you expect.

Even if a car is thrashed, VW will have to repair/replace parts within the 3 year warranty - there is no way they can refuse to honour their warranty obligations because you like to hoof your car. Keeping it beyond 3 years, and you might regret not being gentle with it in the early days.

I have found that running in with purely motorway miles (700 mile round trip to see relatives when the car was brand new) gave good economy, but the engine used a lot of oil (0.5L/1000 miles).

Gentle run in for the first 700 miles (trying not to do more than 3000rpm in a TDI/4000rpm in a petrol) on my last 2 VWs has given me good economy and negligible oil consumption.

VAG do a hell of a lot more research into these things than any of us will, and they want their cars to last, not only for warranty claims, but well beyond that. VW's reputation for quality cars would be totally shot if that were to happen.There's no point in making a car that is totally reliable for the first 3 years, but then falls to bits months after the warranty expires. I would trust the gentle run in that VAG suggest over some webpage that a petrolhead posts which is completely relevant to motorbikes only. Mototune man says he's done the hard run in on 300 engines (how many of these will have been complex modern car engines?), VAG will be basing their recommendations upon tenss of thousands of engines over the years.

With closer manufacturing tolerances the run-in is less critical than it used to be for general reliability, but the way you treat the car early on will influence it's economy, oil consumption and power later.

The "ntnoa" link is directed towards performance motorbike engines that are far less complex than your average TDI/TSI engine. The emphasis is on performance rather than economy also, and a motorbike engine has far less strain placed upon it (having to carry only about a third of the weight of a car). I wouldn't use that advice for anything other than it's intended usage - performance bikes.

By far the most important thing whatever your stance on running in is let the oil get up to temp before working the engine hard. For modern engines with synthetic oils, they're pretty quick in reaching operating temperature.

[GTMan]

I'm looking at keeping the car a long time and I would like those pistons looking pristine 75,000 miles down the road. The images throughout the motortuneuse website seem to show a significant benefit.

Whilst it is true these sites are motor bike based, there are many other sites offering similar advice for cars. Motor bike engines are usually smaller in capacity and higher revving but the cylinder linings are similar and the basic principles are still pretty well identical.

As for VAG (and me being somewhat cynical), whilst they want reliability they don't want things lasting too long or they would put themselves out of business....

Anyway, I'm just wondering what the engineering principles are.

[james_tiger_woo]

I don't thrash my car anyway and although I'm not "running it in", I'm not ragging it to death - I do, however, use the acceleration that's available to me when needed though :)

[GTMan]

I am wondering what the owners manual says?

While we're on the subject, does anyone know where I can get a PDF copy?

[maisbitt]

GT man: If you mean running in, the manual suggests not taking the engine past 2/3 of it's max rev output for the first 1000km (625 miles), avoiding using full throttle.

Between 1000 and 1500km, you can gradually do a bit more, and after 1500km, be as mean as you like to the engine (not the exact words!) as it is fully run in.

The manual tells you to avoid driving the car hard when the engine is not up to normal operating temperature (oil temp sitting around 1/2 way in the guage) - this is true for the car at all times during it's life.

All the bike advice for seating the piston rings doesn't apply here, because you're not just considering the pistons in a car engine, there is so much more going on mechanically with a TSI or TDI engine than basic 2 pot or 4 pot bike/snowcat engine.

[vwcabriolet1971]

Whats wrong in following VW's advice !!!!???? .
I think that VW may know how their cars should be run-in !
Refer to Booklet 3.2 in the VW manual .