HELP PLEASE - 5 speed or 6 speed, which to get???

[hodgster]

Hi All,

I've searched the forums for about half an hour, and can't find much on this topic.

I'm set on getting a 1.9tdi A6 Avant Manual gearbox, something in the 51 to 53 plate age range.

I was really wondering what people thought on the 5 vs 6 speed subject. Does the 6 speed have a longer ratio on 6th, and therefore likely give me better economy at 70MPH than the 5 speed would in 5th.

I had pretty much decided on 6speed just because....But I've just seen a really nice one that ticks all my boxes, but only has 5 speed box, and I'm trying to decide whether I should disregard it because of that.

I'm not fussed about having to change up and down the box more regularly, but if the final motorway ratio would be the same in top gear on either box, I'd almost be inclined to think the 5 speed might be a better choice????

Quick responses would be VERY much appreciated.

Thanks..

[Col]

Overall they are the same.

Same 0-60 and same top end.

The six speed though as it has shorter / closer ratios means you can keep it in the torque band and thus make better progress up to the top end speed. The downside as you have pointed out is that you need to change gear more often.

The five speed has longer ratios and gives rise to more relaxed cruising as there is less gear changing, which in my opinion is what the A6 is all about.

Also, although I cannot substantiate it but only form this opinion from reading what do online, it would appear that the 5 speed is less problematical than the 6. The 5 speed does have a smaller diameter (weaker) clutch and as result is tuned down on torque from 310nm for the 6 to 285nm for the 5.

P.S.

I drive a 2005 A6 1.9TDI Avant 5 SPEED, so you might want to hear from some of the 6 speed peeps to form a balanced view.

[hodgster]

Hmm, interesting what you say about the smaller clutch....See one of the things I'm thinking of doing, once I've got an A6, and have run it for a while to make sure there's no bugs that need ironing out, is to look at getting a remap done to nudge the power up a little, because I hear the 130 engine has good remap potential, while still retaining most, if not all of the economy when driven appropriately.

But if you're saying the 5 speed has a potentially weaker clutch, then perhaps I am better holding out for a 6 speed??

I guess it depends on the reason Audi lowered the torque on the 5 speed...Was it because the clutch is on the edge of tolerance running with the higher power, or they were just being ultra safe, and the clutch can handle much more than that...

I'm not in a super rush to buy, so as much as I like the car I'm looking at, if the better choice in the long run would be to get a 6 speed, i would.

I wonder if there's any 5 speed owners that have had a remap looking at this post :D

[paul b]

The 5 speed vs 6 speed and the various remapping concerns it brings up has always been a funny one.

IIRC, Crasher reckons the 5 and 6 speed clutches are the same, so he has no idea why a remapper would say the 6 speed can take more than the 5. I'm sure he won't thank me for bringing him into this debate! :p

Mine is a 5 speed, an AWX just like Col's.

Mine also has a relatively stiff clutch (I say that comparing it to my Skoda Octavia) and goes like an absolute rocket, I do wonder if mine has been remapped in the past. I plan to get it rolling roaded and find out for definite the next time (IF there is a next time! ;)) this forum plans a remap day.

It happens to be that all of my vehicles, that's the A6, Octavia and even my VW T5 van are 5 speed. Coincidence? :biglaugh:

[Col]

Mine also has a relatively stiff clutch (I say that comparing it to my Skoda Octavia) and goes like an absolute rocket, I do wonder if mine has been remapped in the past. I plan to get it rolling roaded and find out for definite the next time (IF there is a next time! ;)) this forum plans a remap day.

:biglaugh:

As Paul would know, my last car was a Passat with the said same AWX 130hp 285nm 5 speed engine that is in my current (and his) A6.

A also have to say the A6 is noticably quicker than the Passat was despite it being a heavier car.

May the Audi factory map gives more power and more torque than stated? Who knows but I ecpected the bigger A6 to be slower, it is not !

As for clutches, as far as I'm aware, the 5 speed has a smaller diamter and therefore technically weaker plate than the 6 speed box uses.

Don't quote me but I think the 5 speed diameter is 240mm and the 6 speed is errrr, I dunno ..... but bigger.

[Clinterous]

Yes, I'm a 1.9 130 5 speed owner with a remap.

I had the remap done just over a year when the mileage was 184,000 and now the mileage is just about to breach 216,000.

The clutch does seem to have more travel now than it used to and I suspect a new one will be required within twelve months. But I can't comment on whether this is down to specifically the remap or just nornal wear and tear as it's still the original factory part from when the car was new I believe!

Lets face it, clutches wear out anyway, so one can only assume a combination of pole position traffic lights and aggressive map is bound to wear the clutch quicker.

I would be interested to know how many revs are being used at 85mph with a 6 speed box though??

[Hex69]

The 5 speed does have a smaller diameter (weaker) clutch and as result is tuned down on torque from 310nm for the 6 to 285nm for the 5.

Not on the Passat it's not, the ATJ engine has the full 310Nm, with a 5 speed, however I think some of the reason they went to 6 speed boxes was to 'keep up with Joneses', i.e. our competitors got a 6 speed we need one to market ours with. It's now getting out of hand, the Lexus IS-F has 8 speeds, if you don't have a yorkie in one hand, and 15 million toilet rolls in the boot ;), why do you need more than 5 speeds?

[hodgster]

I guess if anyone has the ratios for the two boxes, that would be the easiest way to see if 6th is in fact a little longer than 5th on a 5 speed.....Having searched a number of previous threads, I have seen Crasher supply these for other models, so if he pops on here than maybe he'll have these.

Though to throw a curveball in there...The main reason I'd consider the 6speed over the 5 is if the economy is better, yet when you look on parkers, the 6 speed is a tax band higher, with three less MPG...I know to take parkers with a pinch of salt, but it does seem a little odd :\

[clonmult]

Minor point to bear in mind.

The 6 speed is in a higher tax bracket than the 5 speed. Apparently it gives more emissions ....

[Col]

Looking in my owners manual it says;

Max speed

5sp 201 km/h
6sp 201 km/h
Auto 198 km/h

0-100 km

5sp 10.7
6sp 10.7
Auto 10.7


Looking somehwere else.....

5 speed

Final Drive 31 : 9 = 3.444
1st 34 : 9 = 3.778
2nd 37 : 17 = 2.176
3rd 34 : 25 = 1.360
4th 28 : 31 = 0.903
5th 24 : 35 = 0.686
Rev 31 : 9 = 3.444

6 speed

Final Drive
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
Rev 31 : 9



Errr.... will dig deeper later for the 6 speed info.