Tdi lazy starting when warm and short glowplug light

[imortalmonkey]

Hi all

My golf 1.9 110 tdi has a few issues and Im thinking they could be related.

When starting from cold it starts great but even if its been turned off for a few mins its a pig to start takes a good few seconds.

Also the glow plug light is only on for a second??? hot or cold.

Im a little down on power too with some ugly flat spots around the mid range.

Ive recently replaced the gearbox,I replaced the glowplugs two months ago.

Have i disturbed the starter and caused it a problem as it wasnt lazy starting when warm before i replaced the gearbox??

Thanks Aaron

[jonathanfenton]

Hi all

My golf 1.9 110 tdi has a few issues and Im thinking they could be related.

When starting from cold it starts great but even if its been turned off for a few mins its a pig to start takes a good few seconds.

Also the glow plug light is only on for a second??? hot or cold.

Im a little down on power too with some ugly flat spots around the mid range.

Ive recently replaced the gearbox,I replaced the glowplugs two months ago.

Have i disturbed the starter and caused it a problem as it wasnt lazy starting when warm before i replaced the gearbox??

Thanks Aaron

Did you ever sort out the 1 second glowplug light?

[tdigolf]

have you had a cambelt done recantly?

[imortalmonkey]

Hi thanks for the relplies

What I found is that I have a few things going on,The lazy starting is the starter motor and whats happening is the ecu is looking for the starter to be cranking quite fast and until it is it wont let the engine start,on cold start the ecu doesnt look for the rpm of the starter hence the quick start.

Hope that made sense?!! glow plug light still goes out quick...hmmm. starts loads better now tho!!

I think my power issues may be maf related as when i tap it with a spanner the idle speed changes!!! lol,it tops out at 103 mph and it used to do 119 mph.

No cambelt change recently!!

[tdigolf]

have you got a new starter motor or? i notied some times mine spins over quicker than other and when it does it starts quicker, i was wondering if it was the battery

[imortalmonkey]

have you got a new starter motor or? i notied some times mine spins over quicker than other and when it does it starts quicker, i was wondering if it was the battery

with mine i stripped it and lubricated it, just gave it a bit of an overhaul and its loads better,may buy a new one if it goes back the way it was!!

[STEWY L]

[QUOTE=imortalmonkey;352733]Hi thanks for the relplies

What I found is that I have a few things going on,The lazy starting is the starter motor and whats happening is the ecu is looking for the starter to be cranking quite fast and until it is it wont let the engine start,on cold start the ecu doesnt look for the rpm of the starter hence the quick start.

Hope that made sense?!!
not at all:confused:
why would it look for crank speed?
crank direction i can understand,but it can't control crank speed.
if the battery's good,and the starter is good it will start faster because it cranks faster and the heat required under compression is generated faster.
unless i have missed something,why does it look for crank speed when hot,
but not when cold?
regasrds,
stewy.

[imortalmonkey]

[QUOTE=imortalmonkey;352733]Hi thanks for the relplies

What I found is that I have a few things going on,The lazy starting is the starter motor and whats happening is the ecu is looking for the starter to be cranking quite fast and until it is it wont let the engine start,on cold start the ecu doesnt look for the rpm of the starter hence the quick start.

Hope that made sense?!!
not at all:confused:
why would it look for crank speed?
crank direction i can understand,but it can't control crank speed.
if the battery's good,and the starter is good it will start faster because it cranks faster and the heat required under compression is generated faster.
unless i have missed something,why does it look for crank speed when hot,
but not when cold?
regasrds,
stewy.

The ecu doesnt look at the starters crank speed when cold. However it does when warm.
its looking for 2300 rpm from the starter if Iirc befor it allows fuel to be injected. Simples.!! Lol

[STEWY L]

[QUOTE=STEWY L;353050]

The ecu doesnt look at the starters crank speed when cold. However it does when warm.
its looking for 2300 rpm from the starter if Iirc befor it allows fuel to be injected. Simples.!! Lol
2300rpm from the starter motor:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:
some starter that is
you will be lucky to see 500 rpm with a very very good battery and starter.
don't know who told you 2300rpm,but he is a very dangerous mechanic to use if he believes that.
i'm gob smacked:confused::confused::confused:
regards,
stewy.

[imortalmonkey]

Posted on here in many many posts. ok so i may be wrong on the speed but Im sure your arogance isnt required.

[imortalmonkey]

On the 1.9tdi 110 engines i know there is a known fault with the starter motor.

When the engine is hot the ECU demands 250 revolutions of the crank until it injects fuel , thus starting !!

When cold this feature is disabled , thus fast starts !!

The starter cannot quite get to the required 250rpm straight away when hot , therefore takes a few seconds to start up.

[tdigolf]

what did you to do the startermotor?

[STEWY L]

Hi all

My golf 1.9 110 tdi has a few issues and Im thinking they could be related.

When starting from cold it starts great but even if its been turned off for a few mins its a pig to start takes a good few seconds.

Also the glow plug light is only on for a second??? hot or cold.

Im a little down on power too with some ugly flat spots around the mid range.

Ive recently replaced the gearbox,I replaced the glowplugs two months ago.

Have i disturbed the starter and caused it a problem as it wasnt lazy starting when warm before i replaced the gearbox??

Thanks Aaron


Hi thanks for the relplies

What I found is that I have a few things going on,The lazy starting is the starter motor and whats happening is the ecu is looking for the starter to be cranking quite fast and until it is it wont let the engine start,on cold start the ecu doesnt look for the rpm of the starter hence the quick start.

Hope that made sense?!! glow plug light still goes out quick...hmmm. starts loads better now tho!!

I think my power issues may be maf related as when i tap it with a spanner the idle speed changes!!! lol,it tops out at 103 mph and it used to do 119 mph.

No cambelt change recently!!


[QUOTE=imortalmonkey;352733]Hi thanks for the relplies

What I found is that I have a few things going on,The lazy starting is the starter motor and whats happening is the ecu is looking for the starter to be cranking quite fast and until it is it wont let the engine start,on cold start the ecu doesnt look for the rpm of the starter hence the quick start.

Hope that made sense?!!
not at all:confused:
why would it look for crank speed?
crank direction i can understand,but it can't control crank speed.
if the battery's good,and the starter is good it will start faster because it cranks faster and the heat required under compression is generated faster.
unless i have missed something,why does it look for crank speed when hot,
but not when cold?
regasrds,
stewy.


[QUOTE=imortalmonkey;353356]
2300rpm from the starter motor:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:
some starter that is
you will be lucky to see 500 rpm with a very very good battery and starter.
don't know who told you 2300rpm,but he is a very dangerous mechanic to use if he believes that.
i'm gob smacked:confused::confused::confused:
regards,
stewy.


Posted on here in many many posts. ok so i may be wrong on the speed but Im sure your arogance isnt required.
imortal,
i'm sorry if i have offended you,----"simples"
but who quoted "simples"?
who was arogant enough to quote "simples"
are you sure you don't mean,---"simpols"
230rpm perhaps.
we won't fall out over that,
regards,
stewy.

[tdigolf]

what was done with the starter motor then?

[golf tdi 02]

er have you gave a service in the last 6 months ???;);)

[imortalmonkey]

[QUOTE=STEWY L;353050]

[QUOTE=STEWY L;353373]


imortal,
i'm sorry if i have offended you,----"simples"
but who quoted "simples"?
who was arogant enough to quote "simples"
are you sure you don't mean,---"simpols"
230rpm perhaps.
we won't fall out over that,
regards,
stewy.

Simples? you read alot into that didnt you?! at the end of the day I got the rpm wrong,Im sure its not a hanging offence! Look lets not fall out:beerchug:

[imortalmonkey]

er have you gave a service in the last 6 months ???;);)

Hi thanks for the reply,yes it had a full service 3 months ago..thinking I had better get a diagnostics tool

[STEWY L]

[QUOTE=STEWY L;356086][QUOTE=STEWY L;353050]



Simples? you read alot into that didnt you?! at the end of the day I got the rpm wrong,Im sure its not a hanging offence! Look lets not fall out:beerchug:
yes, i did.
i read far too much into it.
my fault entirely,it's been a rough week(not your fault),
and an even rougher week coming up(again not your fault).
i was wrong to jump in on your mistake about the revs,
i see that now.
couldn't blame you if we never spoke again, but i hope we do imortal,
please accept my sorryness :Blush2::Blush2::Blush2:,
regards,
stewy.

[imortalmonkey]

[QUOTE=imortalmonkey;356300][QUOTE=STEWY L;356086]
yes, i did.
i read far too much into it.
my fault entirely,it's been a rough week(not your fault),
and an even rougher week coming up(again not your fault).
i was wrong to jump in on your mistake about the revs,
i see that now.
couldn't blame you if we never spoke again, but i hope we do imortal,
please accept my sorryness :Blush2::Blush2::Blush2:,
regards,
stewy.

No worries at all Stewy Im sorry if I came accross smarmy I didnt mean to,We all have a cross to bere,I hope next week isnt as bad as you think,If you were closer Id buy you a beer:beerchug:

[tdigolf]

soo starter motor?

[imortalmonkey]

soo starter motor?

Yeah basicly I found after removing the starter and lubricating..Upon refiting the problem had gone.
But I think I had a poor connection on the wiring rather than the starter being at fault itself.Starts perfect now:biglaugh:

[tdigolf]

what did you lubricate on the starter motor?

[tdigolf]

could it be the battery? on mine it turns over fast them dips down then pics up and fires..

[imortalmonkey]

Hi have your battery drop tested this is usualy free at most garages thats where I would start,I lubricated all bearings. think it was wiring tho tbh

[VAGMAN54]

where is the speed sensor located on the starter motor ? engine speed is taken from the crank sensor not the starter motor it looks for a cranking signal whether your engines hot or cold it looks at coolant temp,fuel temp and many more things but one of them is not the starter motor speed !

[tdigolf]

yeh i think i will have to, bearings? gawd think if i started taking the starter motor apart i would be ending up with a new one anyway.. also my glow plug lights only stays on for same amount of time hot and cold is this normal? thanks tom

[imortalmonkey]

where is the speed sensor located on the starter motor ? engine speed is taken from the crank sensor not the starter motor it looks for a cranking signal whether your engines hot or cold it looks at coolant temp,fuel temp and many more things but one of them is not the starter motor speed !

Hi I think your missing what Im saying,Im saying the starter motor was slow meaning it couldnt crank the engine at the desired speed that the ecu was looking for.

[imortalmonkey]

yeh i think i will have to, bearings? gawd think if i started taking the starter motor apart i would be ending up with a new one anyway.. also my glow plug lights only stays on for same amount of time hot and cold is this normal? thanks tom

I honestly think its down to the wiring on the starter. My glow plug light only stays on for a seccond hot or cold,to be honest Im new to the vw scene,Ive worked on alot of cars but have only just started venturing into these,Ive purchased vag com so look forward to seeing what fault codes my ecu has stored!!!:D

[VAGMAN54]

is this a pd engine ? and what was the desired speed ?

[imortalmonkey]

is this a pd engine ? and what was the desired speed ?

250 rpm iirc and its 1.9 tdi:Blush:

[tdigolf]

mine isnt just a 1.9tdi think engine code is agh?

[VAGMAN54]

1.9tdi pd ? or just a tdi ? has it got an injection pump or 4 separate injectors under the cam cover do you know your engine code ?

[VAGMAN54]

agh !! thats a 4.2 fitted to an audi .....umh maybe you need to recheck your code unless you got a beast under that there bonnet

[tdigolf]

lmao i wish i did its got a fuel pump its just 90bhp diesel, (s tdi)

[tdigolf]

believe engine code may be agr?

[VAGMAN54]

yes 66kw of power,does your car start ok from cold ?

[tdigolf]

yeh straight away half a turn, i used the car then it was warm been off for about 2-3min i turned the key and it didnt fire but i held it for about 3-4 seconds and it virtually stopped i thought the battery had gone flat but then i turned the ignition off then back on tried again and it flew over and went straight away?

[Crasher]

So what do you want to know??

[imortalmonkey]

So what do you want to know??

Whats this 4 seccond delay in starting when warm all about? mine still does it from time to time and I thought id cured it!!! Vag come flags a code on my car and its to do with the air mass meter,(I have lumpy idle and flat spots so a new air mass meter is my next job!):beerchug:

[tdigolf]

i dont have a flat spot, when the cars warm it takes a bit of turning over to get it started it doesnt turn over very quick as if the battery was down on power, then on the second turn of the key when it wouldnt fire the first time it spins over a bit quicker and starts straight away, like today it has been starting straight away when its hot going first time, then every now and again it will slow down and sound like the batterys down, i had the battery checked today and they said its ok, could the starter have anything to do with it?

[Crasher]

With a VEP (non PD ) TDI I diagnose this by recoding the ECU for an automatic, if it then starts OK I change the starter motor and before you your mind goes “ohh that sounds like a cheap fix”, no you can’t leave it like that as it stores a fault code and makes the engine behave oddly.

[imortalmonkey]

With a VEP (non PD ) TDI I diagnose this by recoding the ECU for an automatic, if it then starts OK I change the starter motor and before you your mind goes “ohh that sounds like a cheap fix”, no you can’t leave it like that as it stores a fault code and makes the engine behave oddly.

Im confused..are we saying the starter motor is at fault but the ecu needs to be played with too? after doing the above have we cured it?
Thanks Crasher

[Crasher]

It is common for a VEP TDI to have starting issues due to a slow cranking starter. The start RPM threshold for an auto is lower than on a manual so I use the ability to recode the ECU to automatic transmission for diagnostic purposes and when I have confirmed my suspicions, I recode it back to manual transmission.

[tdigolf]

right i have access to a computer so if i tell it, it has auto box try and start it if that works then new starter motor and tell it it has a manual box again, i am pretty certain its the starter as the battery has been tested, today it has been turning over a bit quicker and starting as it should do

[imortalmonkey]

It is common for a VEP TDI to have starting issues due to a slow cranking starter. The start RPM threshold for an auto is lower than on a manual so I use the ability to recode the ECU to automatic transmission for diagnostic purposes and when I have confirmed my suspicions, I recode it back to manual transmission.

Gotcha!! thanks thats brilliant:beerchug:

[Crasher]

You have a computer but do you have a registered copy of VAG-COM and a cable or is it another diagnostic computer?

[tdigolf]

my uncal have a audi/vw garage they have a green bosche computer and a laptop so i presume the laptop is vag.com

[Crasher]

No, it will be a KTS 650 or similar but the Bosch software should guide him through the process.

[tdigolf]

is there a way i can get vag.com or some thing simular on my laptop at home? i have read before that some one done it on here i think and didnt pay that much for it, got any ideas?

[imortalmonkey]

is there a way i can get vag.com or some thing simular on my laptop at home? i have read before that some one done it on here i think and didnt pay that much for it, got any ideas?

Ross-tech is a good website you can download the software there and purchase the full version of the software for a reasonable price (considering what you get) Then you just need a llead of and a laptop obviously!!!

[tdigolf]

what type of lead do i need?

[imortalmonkey]

what type of lead do i need?

16 pin to usb vag com lead. They sell them on ebay but i couldnt vouch for there quality.

[tdigolf]

cant you buy them any where local from shops or anything?

[imortalmonkey]

cant you buy them any where local from shops or anything?

Many places online but im unsure with regards to local shops, theres a cheap cheap option which i know is frowned upon a little here ebay item:380073484763 only good to read and clear faults tho.

[tdigolf]

could you send me a link to the website on ross tech on which one i would need for my golf to down load? there are that many different ones.. i will be installing it on a laptop with windows xp on thanks tom