Power Loss / Turbo loss on VW Passat 1.9TDI

[mubsy812001]

I am pulling my hair out here with my problem!

I have a VW Passat 2001 1.9 TDI SE 130BHP. My car simply does not have any power. The turbo simply does not kick in and when going up a hill the car drags! when on the motorway even the slight steep hill then even micra's are overtaking me.

In any gear my car just simply picks up very very slowly.

The Turbo kicks in once in a while (like once every 20/30 drives!) for about 2 seconds and then back to normal power loss again!

Reading some of the forums on here I changed the MAF and has still not made any difference.

I am a total novice with cars, I can do the small jobs but I can't get too technical and to be totally honest I need to do this job myself as I am struggling with money (Credit Crunch!).

Can someone tell me what is wrong with my car? also give me a step by step problem resolution, not just simply your x pipe is blocked, I need to know where the pipe is located (Pictures will be good) and show me how i can rectify the problem.

I need to sort this out and do it on my own so please please please can someone help me out on this one.

Thanks

[Crasher]

You need to get the car fault code read before you waste any more money replacing parts that are not faulty. Where did the Air Mass Meter (AMM) come from? Presumably because you are short of money you did not buy one genuine, how much did it cost?

[martin1810]

If you say where you are in the country someone might offer to give you a code read for a few beers. Then you will have somewhere to start looking.

[mubsy812001]

I got it from local parts shop, cost me £35 and the parts shop chap showed me how to replace it.

[Crasher]

It could well be faulty; there are huge numbers of Chinese replicas about that simply don’t work. If you paid £35 then he will have paid £15 and that means the unit is utter crap. Have a fault code read done, if that fails to bring up a code, fit a new genuine VW AMM bought only from a VW dealer and see how that goes. If that cures the problem you need to go back and ask for your money back AND for the £15 odd you will have had to pay extra as a genuine AMM is exchange.

[mubsy812001]

Surely cant be the MAF as it works (once in a blue moon) for a few seconds and then kicks out again? but who am I to suggest that! will change MAF again and see what happens - or shall I get the VAG com done first?

[Crasher]

Yes, get a fault code read done first.

[cazyp]

I doubt it was the MAF - IME more likely to be the MAP or the N75 if any.

As said get a fault code read. Check all the small 3mm vaccum pipes or just replace them for the sake of £5 with silicone pipes.

Check the black plastic actuator arm is working on the side of the EGR valve - should move back then forward as soon as the engine is turned off. If not the diaphragm is split which will leak vacuum.

If all eles fails it might be coked up turbo vane springs. Can be cleaned either turbo off or using invotec cleaner.

HTH

[neilp]

Had the same problem in January, i had no access to a code reader, replaced maf 1st no change then changed the sensor on the induction pipe towards the back of the engine near the fuel filter, goes like the wind now, would recommend a diagnostic test if you can afford it. mine was pot luck.

[cazyp]

Had the same problem in January, i had no access to a code reader, replaced maf 1st no change then changed the sensor on the induction pipe towards the back of the engine near the fuel filter, goes like the wind now, would recommend a diagnostic test if you can afford it. mine was pot luck.

That was the MAP sensor you replaced. They seem to cause more problems than the MAF sensors.

[dreadnoughts]

Having a similar problem with my 2000 reg 1.9TDI. Putting the boot down produces nearly nothing with frequent clouds of black smoke. Car chuggs when taking off in 1st and 2nd gear also. Had 2 faults from scan - camshaft position sensor (g40): signal out of range and also Charge Pressure Control: negative deviation. I have cleared the codes and it the problem seems less apparent.
will be taking a look at the pipes from the intercooler as per other instructions here as well as checking out the MAP sensor.

This is a really good forum everyone! Learning lots and hopefully will be spending a little less time and $$$ dealing with the garages!

[cazyp]

Take a look at the small 3mm vacuum pipes & braided hoses as well. Blow/suck them to see if they are leaking.

[mubsy812001]

CrazyP/Crasher,

Sorry guys been down south for few weeks as my grandma was ill.

Didn't take my car and cars just been stood there on my drive since.

Now that I've come back I will try and get a diagnostic done (if I can pulll the money out!)

Following your post carzyP regarding all the techy terms ( as I am a complete novice with cars) can anyone show me a diagram (haynes manual diagram ) of where exactly the N75, MAP, turbo vane springs are so at least I can have a look at this myself? and where all the 3mm vacuum pipes you mentioned in your post are? you've also mentioned the black plastic actuator arm and the diaphragm, where is this - diagrams would be excellent! or else everything is going over my head as i don't know where anything is in my car.

PLEASE PLEASE SORT THIS OUT FOR ME PEOPLE, AS I NEED SOME MONEY AND AM LOOKING TO GET RID OF MY CAR TO FINANCE MYSELF AS THE CREDIT CRUNCH HAS SERIOUSLY HURT ME REAL BAD!!!

[Crasher]

Mubsy, without doing a fault code read you do not know in which way you car is going into limp, i.e. code 17964 or 17965. Without this information you are chasing your tail around and could waste money trying to repair the wrong things.

[ChillOut]

I would say think hard before putting good money after bad - I have started down this route and perhaps its time to bail out and get the pro's to diagnose. I had two faulty AMM's (MAF) from GSF - luckily the faults were blindingly clear on the first two, but I am advised that even now I have one that seems to work, it could still be dodgy.

I have heard that Bosch service centres only charge £40 to diagnose and won't charge you for parts unless they cure the fault - if that's true, it will be well worth taking that route. VW typically charge £80 for a diagnosis - you can insist they don't change anything until they get your agreement. eg they will rob you for a new turbo, so you'd want to stop them doing that and take stock if they recommend that.

[Crasher]

A VW dealer will not “rob you for a new turbo”, if the car needed a new turbo (which is a significant possibility) they would advise and quote, saying that VW dealers are thieves really winds me up…

[scotty33]

Hi

If this car is rarely boosting, it seems likely the problem is underboost?

Even if not, it costs nothing to check a few things out.

Check this link out, it shows the insides of the type of turbo used. Also how to strip it down and clean it if necessary..

http://www.technologie-entwicklung.de/Gasturbines/VNT15-Turbo/vnt15-turbo.html

You can see the vacuum actuator attached to the side of the turbo. It needs vacuum applied to the actuator to make the VNT mechanism move into 'boost' mode. On the car, you should be able to see/feel the actuator rod move upwards approx 1/2" when the engine runs. After the engine stops, you should see the rod drop back down.
If this is not happening pull the small hose off the vacuum actuator, see if there is any vacuum when the engine is running?
See if you can get another pipe onto the actuator, suck the pipe, see if the rod moves.
The vacuum capsule could have a torn diaphragm which would mean a new actuator is required, or the mechanism could be coked up and stuck. If you unbolt the actuator from it's bracket (2 x 10mm nuts) you will be able to see if the vnt mechanism moves freely..

There is a vacuum pump on the back of the cylinder head, it has a large (approx 1/2") pipe running off it which goes to the brake servo. Branched off this pipe is a smaller 3mm vacuum line which is the 'source' of the vacuum in the boost control system. Try sucking or blowing through the small pipe, this will give an idea of whether there is a vacuum leak. This pipework runs forward to the airbox area, some pipes go under/behind the airbox and connect to a solenoid valve at the front of the engine in the area in front of the turbo - this is the N75 (boost control valve). This valve is also connected to the turbo 's vacuum actuator.
The vacuum lines also run across the back of the engine bay to another solenoid valve which is mounted below the hard plastic intake piping (on the coolant expansion tank side of the engine) - This controls the Exhaust gas recirc.
There may be another vac feed to a device on the coolant hose nearby?
All of these small vacuum hoses need to be airtight, the vac hoses are mostly covered with braided cloth, but some by the airbox are plastic, these often wear until holed.
The N75 solenoid could be dead, you could check it's continuity with a multimeter, i dont know what the value should be but guess it would be approx 40 ohms? Over say 200 would be trouble I think..
The Map sensor is mounted directly into the hard platic intake pipe - just above the egr control valve. Somebody good with Vag com could check it's function and your maf's function before you replace them.
Have a look in the Vag com section, see if there is a user near you?

Good luck with it!

[GRAHAM.C]

A very good post scotty33,very informative and well presented so that even a novice could understand.Good on you mate.

[Crasher]

Yes but I do think that it is easier to have a £30 fault code read done first rather than removing and stripping the turbo and finding you have a rubbed through vacuum hose.

[ChillOut]

A VW dealer will not “rob you for a new turbo”, if the car needed a new turbo (which is a significant possibility) they would advise and quote, saying that VW dealers are thieves really winds me up…

Apologies to you and most probably to VW dealers in general because you/they can't set the prices of the parts. However, I will explain. I am not suggesting they will mis-diagnose the fault, but you can get an exchange turbo, full warranty, for well under £500 + fitting, VW set the price, also for an exchange at around £1250 + fitting. If you want to get your own re-furbished if its not too badly failed (no damage to blades I think mostly), you can get that for £250, again with a full warranty, but your car off the road for a week. Yes, this is much more hassle for you, but you are saving between £700 & £1000 so its really worth a thought isn't it? Clearly anyone can call into question the quality of those exchange units and any refurb, but there again, my OE one appears not to have lasted too long either.

I will put my hands up, I am pretty hacked off with VW right now - car fully VW serviced and owned by me from new and just 4 years 66K. It is now facing (at VW main dealer prices) up to £4,000 worth of work if I want to get it fully back to spec. Its the most I have ever had to spend on any car even if I added the entire life service bill for those previous cars; and I have taken cars to well over £100K/10 years with nothing more than a waterpump and wheel bearing fail.

Crasher offers a lot of help on here, so this is not directed at him, but I hope this explains where I am coming from.

And VAG speciliast indpendent mech I have spoken to confirms that VW are very good for his business these days - not the cars they used to be. He does still recommend and use OE parts though.

[mubsy812001]

All,

I truely appreciate the fact that you guys are helping me out on this. I have now eventually found a mechanics guy in bolton who does a diagnostic check, car is due to go in tomorrow.

Now there appears to be another problem!:( As soon as I switch the car on the orange coil light goes on and flashes and it says "engine Workshop" on the dash!

Is this something serious? I am really worried now as I have the turbo problem and now this engine worksop thingy with the coil light flashing. I am worried this is going to cost some money now!

Please can someone shed some light on this pls

Regards

[martin1810]

It's just telling you that it has logged fault codes that need reading. It doesn't mean they are serious, just that you should get them investigated.

[martin1810]

Mubsy... Once you have a code read, You will get advice that is more relevant. Too much guessing is pointless as Crasher says. People often spend lots of money replacing parts to avoid paying for a code read. This is usually false economy.

[Crasher]

Mubsy, I would not be surprised if all your problems were just due to a cheap and easy to replace brake light switch fault.

[boidy]

how could a brake light switch cause this problem crasher ?

[mubsy812001]

The drivers side brake light was not working (I didn't realise) so bulb was replaced and the Coil light no longer flashing and the "engine Workshop" message no longer coming.

The problem of turbo not kicking in still there, will go and do the diagnostic today and let you guys know what happens. Is there something specific the diagnostic chap needs to do whilst he doing the diagnostic check, as I have read somewhere that you get a rod and poke an area of the car whilst doing the diagnostic and it will solve some problem??

[Crasher]

If you use the sites search facility you can read about 10,000 posts regarding brake light switches. The switch is a dual purpose unit. There are two contacts; one feeds the brake lights and the engine ECU and the other only the engine ECU as a double check. The system is known as Electronic Performance Control (EPC) and the brake light switch is part of the safety system and the code is likely to be “00741 Brake pedal monitoring Implausible signal” or “16955 Brake light switch F Implausible signal” and these will make the glow plug light flash and can cause the engine to lose power. Maybe the new bulb will have cured it, it can cause the same code. The part that is “poked” as you put it is the turbo vane actuator but this should only be encouraged to move whilst in Basic Settings 04, Main group 011 with the status in Block 2 showing “ON”.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd20/Crasher1964/AVF-AWXtuborod.jpg

[mubsy812001]

Hi Crasher,

Just done a diagnostic on the car the following codes showed up:

17965 - P1557 Turbo/super charger overboost, Condition: control limit exceeded

16955 - P0571 Brake switch (a) Sporadic:Circuit Malfunction

He didn't understand how to do the poking and he didn't understand how to change the diagnostic machine in different modes.

I need to know pictorially what to do now as I plan on doing the work myself and am a complete novice with cars in order to save money! can you show me with pictures (as done in your previous post) what I need to do to solve my rpoblem.

Help much appreciated.

Regards

[Crasher]

Do you have a registered copy of VAG-COM at your disposal?

[mubsy812001]

Nope - y?

[Crasher]

Without it you can’t do this test. Do you own a hand operated vacuum pump such as a Mity Vac?

[mubsy812001]

No Sorry I don't, and I don't know anyone who will have one.

where can I get hold of the vag com from? I belive Ross-tech do one??

[Crasher]

It is BY Ross Tech, not just available from them. I buy mine from www.ilexa.co.uk (http://www.ilexa.co.uk/). You may feel inclined to go for a £30 fleaBay cable but these still have to be registered with Ross Tech and that costs $99 and only allows you to use the very old version 409 level when the proper cable allows Beta 90 whatever now.

[Bodferret]

Crasher ive put up a thread and would be very interseted in you looking at it...thanks mate...its about turbos and not sure whether to put here in case of being thought of as hijacking...lol

[Crasher]

Which one!

[Bodferret]

This one Crasher!

Turbo whooshing noise!!!

Thanks mate

[mubsy812001]

Crasher and all others!

I think I may have solved the problem! well not me but the garage who did the diagnostic!

Went back tot he gareage who did the diagnostic and asked him if he had a proper VAG Com, the reply was "no", but what he did have was someone else's passat in the garage, same reg and spec as mine.

So he said I'll do you a favour and try and get to the bootom of my problem, so he took my MAP sensor out and replaced it with the MAP sensor of the Passat he had in garage, and guess what! The turbo kicked back in! so it looks like a faulty MAP.

I will go to dealers today and get a MAP and replace it with my faulty one. Are these expensive?

Thanks for all your help in this forum! much appreciated!

but I have another problem now which I will post in a new thread - "central locking only works when I am really (1/2 metres) close to the car"

[cazyp]

£22 + vat from VW trade centre.
As said on pg 1 its a common cause.

[Crasher]

The part number on yours should be 038 906 051 C and they are around £44.

[hongkongstuey]

just goes to show that vag com is the oracle and no amount of guessed parts will fix it for less than 100 or so quid, i wouldnt be without mine, any worry i have, i just plug it in and its diagnosed, have made my money back by buying the right parts a few times over. i have faith in you crasher :beerchug: you know what your talking about. thats not a knock at anyone else, i just know that if i have a prob i know who to turn to if something cannot be sorted with my pea sized brain.

sings *for he's a jolly good fellow* :biglaugh:

[Crasher]

Aww stop it :o

[mubsy812001]

is there a reason why the MAP fails? is it simply wear and tear or does something else cause its failure?

[cazyp]

is there a reason why the MAP fails? is it simply wear and tear or does something else cause its failure?

All the oily air flying past it is my guess.

[mubsy812001]

I totally agree with "Honkkongstuey!!"

The hats should go off to the "CRASHER" - he's like the "stig" (from top gear) of the VW/Audi forums!:beerchug:

:biglaugh:

Thanks crasher!

[Crasher]

Bit late but oil contamination.

[mubsy812001]

Is it normal for this to happen? and how does it get contaminated as i think the pipe that it sits on only carries air?? or am I wrong?

and if you clean the MAP sensor from the oil it should start working again??

[hongkongstuey]

i think most diesels carry a small amount of oil around the pipes, even after the uphill from the intercooler, mine does, has doen since i had it, not a great amount, just something diesel owners get used to i guess.

[Crasher]

Some is drawn from the cam cover breather and some from the turbo, it is quite normal. VAG even brought out some thicker pipe connection “O” rings to stop the oil bleeding out as people whittling over it was driving them mad.

[definitivemale]

I am pulling my hair out here with my problem!

I have a VW Passat 2001 1.9 TDI SE 130BHP. My car simply does not have any power. The turbo simply does not kick in and when going up a hill the car drags! when on the motorway even the slight steep hill then even micra's are overtaking me.

In any gear my car just simply picks up very very slowly.

The Turbo kicks in once in a while (like once every 20/30 drives!) for about 2 seconds and then back to normal power loss again!

Reading some of the forums on here I changed the MAF and has still not made any difference.

I am a total novice with cars, I can do the small jobs but I can't get too technical and to be totally honest I need to do this job myself as I am struggling with money (Credit Crunch!).

Can someone tell me what is wrong with my car? also give me a step by step problem resolution, not just simply your x pipe is blocked, I need to know where the pipe is located (Pictures will be good) and show me how i can rectify the problem.

I need to sort this out and do it on my own so please please please can someone help me out on this one.

Thanks




I know this may sound completely stupid but, this is the problem I had with mine. In the end it turned out to be the rear light that was causing the problem.

Believe it or not the wiring for the AMM and the reversing light are on the same loom.

My car was hit from behind and the garage out a none genuine rear cluster on which was earthing out the reversing light. This inturn was causing the AMM to not work.

I would suggest that you check the fuses and wiring for the rear cluster and reversing light.

I hope this is of some help to you

[malcatt]

See my post "loss of power after towing" and check if your reverse lights are working, same fuse supplies power to the air mass meter. Agree though that if you only paid £35 for an AMM it won't be much good