RESOLVED: A6 Rear light cluster ( 07)

[JimC64]

Hi all, sorry, but I need to revive an old topic... Does anyone have any problems with condensation or their rear light clusters???

My A6 is 2 years old now and I'm on my 3 rd replacement set ( all under warranty from Audi )...the set on now, replaced in January is also showing very noticeable signs of condensation......NOT GOOD! My car is kept clean n loved and generally looks great most of the time so this is really annoying the hell outa me... Lookin for feedback guys....I'm sure this is a known issue

UPDATE 31/03/09 - Called into the dealer today re this and other issues. This is the 3rd replacement set as previously stated changed late January and they are now full of condensation. according to the tech, this is "normal" and once lights are activated the heat will disperse the moisture....RUBBISH !! told him I've had Jags, Fords, Vauxhalls, VW's and Saabs none of which showed these issues and it is NOT normal and I want them replaced under warranty AGAIN! I've spoken with AUDI direct on this and it WILL be replaced one way or another. The only way it seems to stop this is to only drive the car on dry days and never under any circumstances wash it:confused:

For your info....I happen to know that this dealer hass replaced 15 sets of A6 rear lights this year alone??? Stock at Audi to date for these lights sit at 250+.....Can you imagine how many sets that is? Can you imagine the costs related to these parts alone??? Not normal in any way shape or fashion IMO I want this thread to be made sticky, or better still take a poll to try and get an idea of how many may have been replaced to date or how many people have these issues but have not yet complained or asked the question only to be told NO by Audi! In the event that these are not replaced my intention, if necessary is to raise the matter with the BBC's Watchdog programme.

Comments please? Jim

Moderator edit - Resolved.

Solution is in post #114 click here (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?65817-A6-Rear-light-cluster-(-07)&p=756882#post756882)

[HBA4345]

I've got this on my '55 A6 saloon. Didn't really notice it till after it was delivered and I was giving it a good wash.

Didn't have time to get into a dealer to enquire about it but good to know that they are most likely going to be aware of the problem and wil replace under warranty. Will have to wait till I am back in the UK though.

It's most likely a design issue with the sealed unit letting moisture in.

[Flying Scot]

I too have had mine replaced on my Avant, though only once a couple of years ago and they have been fine since. I did have a good laugh when they told me it was due to using a pressure washer to clean the car. It’s never been near a pressure wash!

[JimC64]

HBA - you're right I think it is a poor design. I looked at it with the parts guy. When washing the car you can see a fine trickle of water running at the bottom of the lights, almost as if its between the light itself and the bodywork.....it isn't though - its actually in the light.
Having looked at a new one out of the box you can see how poor the finish is. Even worse still the " seal" between the light and the bulb housing is soo cheap n nasty it'd struggle to seal against anything, let alone water!!

Flying Scot - rofl, they told me that too:confused::confused:
Funny thing is.....what do you think the valeters at Audi dealership clean the cars with??? You guessed it, a pressure washer.

See images below taken of rear lamps clearly showing condensation that Audi consider to be " normal " and will dissipate once the lights are turned on:mad::mad:

[HBA4345]

What makes me smirk is that the condensation I noticed on mine was on the reverse light.

Looks like I'll have to go everywhere backwards until it's gone..... ;)

[JimC64]

HBA - Lol....mine too come to think of it.

UPDATE - Spoke with Audi today re the rear light problem. They don't seem to ever have had this problem with the newer style LED lights, only the older style ones as I have. The consensus seems to be that they will replace them with the new LED lights as they seem to have a better finish / quality and this should resolve the problem......This will be my 4th set:mad:
But if it works, I've won a watch and all under warranty, so fair play to Audi in my book:approve::approve:

Jim

[paul b]

HBA - Lol....mine too come to think of it.

UPDATE - Spoke with Audi today re the rear light problem. They don't seem to ever have had this problem with the newer style LED lights, only the older style ones as I have. The consensus seems to be that they will replace them with the new LED lights as they seem to have a better finish / quality and this should resolve the problem......This will be my 4th set:mad:
But if it works, I've won a watch and all under warranty, so fair play to Audi in my book:approve::approve:

Jim
Free LED lights! I wouldn't complain... ;)

[JimC64]

Does anyone else have these problems? From the feedback I've been given there's lots more out there....anyone?

Jim

[JimC64]

UPDATE>>>>>

Success - Whilst talking to the dealer earlier today re other issues " see - losing coolant thread and chrome trims thread " I mentioned about my rear light problem.
They WILL replace them for the 4th time now under goodwill with the New LED style rear lights which to date they have not had a problem with.
They may try running a silicone bead where the plastic flap meets the inner side of the boot area....Not ideal maybe but if it solves the problem I'll be happy.
Its been a lot of hassle n grief to get here mind you, but if it solves the problem and means I don't have to visit the dealer every 5 minutes I'll be happy...or at least happier, lets say.

It just goes to show that with perseverance and not being fobbed off what you can achieve......too many people can't be bothered to fight for what is right IMO

Jim

[nobbyuk]

I presume you are referring to the highline rear cluster that came with the Xenon headlight upgrade and not the new 2009 rear light cluster?

If it's the '09 rear cluster, I'd REALLY like to know how they fit.

My '05 A6 never had condensation in the rear lights for the 18 months I had it. My 2007 A6 does have it though. Was considering swapping them for the highline rears, the ones with the LED brake lights.
But if the 09 rears fit, I'll have me some of them instead


Dave

[JimC64]

Hey Nobby, unsure really, don't think it'll be the 09's though as they won't fit I don't think. They'll be the latest LED style lights for that year though I believe.
The reason is that they come from a different manufacturer, possibly the reason they have not had any comeback with these - obviously a manufacturing fault with the std type.
On a side note - If you have an 07 A6 why would you consider swapping them? Get yourself into the dealer and complain about it.....you want them replaced under warranty. This is a known issue which is why they have 225 sets in stock cos they have had so many problems.
Go for it buddy

Jim

[nobbyuk]

hmm. I didn't think the 09's would fit. boot lid is a different shape. Shame.

I've spoken to the dealer about it but they'll only replace them with the same type. I want the LED brake light version.

Cheers

[JimC64]

Well its your ride and up to you nobby, but I reckon I'd rather have the same style free of condensation that the ones full of condensation. As stated they've replaced mine with the same style 3 times now before they've decided to go down this route.
It should be under warranty anyway so why not do it?
If they do decide to do it or you decide to go ahead make sure you make your feelings known as you probably will have to return with the same issue at some point.

Keep us informed of what you decide nobby

Good luck

Jim

[kjn2]

My 54 plate A6 has the condensation in the rear cluster (reversing light part) went in a few weeks ago to a main dealer for a check over to extend the warranty and was told "thats normal will go when driven a decent way" well I had a nice long drive this weekend gone and guess what yep its still there, I have to admit (tongue in cheek) that most of the journey was going forward and not in reverse though?:biglaugh:

[JimC64]

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/car01.jpg


Hey kjn2.....funnily enough I also was told " thats NORMAL" and will disappear with driving the vehicle as the heat from the bulbs will essentially dry it out"
Dunno bout you, but I initially laughed then got angry and said..do not insult my intelligence with a statement like that.
I've had Fords, Vauxhalls, Sabbs, Jags as well as others new and used and NEVER, EVER had that problem and it certainly wasn't normal in anyway shape or form. I expected More from Audi NOT less and wanted it rectified immediately. They did offer to remove the lights and dry them out and replace.....I refused saying, that obviously if they've had this issue before it'll happen again and they should replace....That is whats happening for the 4th time now.
Anyway, good luck with whatever action you decide to take.

Jim

[MFGF]

I have just swapped my 55 plate A6 saloon (standard non-LED rear lights) for a new 09 model. During the three and a half years I owned the 55 car, I got through a total of 5 sets of rear lights because of the condensation problem. The first set was replaced when the car was just 4 months old. The condensation actually began when the car was a few days old, but I lived with it until the water got into the electrics and the car started reporting multiple rear bulb failures. This pattern was repeated several times over the period I had the car. When I swapped it a couple of weeks ago, the latest set of lights were soaking wet inside (always starting with the reversing and indicator lenses, then spreading from there), so I guess the next owner will soon be seeking a new replacement pair of lights...

Whenever I asked my local dealer about whether it was a common problem, they always indicated it was "very unusual", so I assumed it was just a fault with my particular car. Looks like I should have signed up to this forum earlier!

Regards,

MF.

[JimC64]

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/car01.jpg


UPDATE

Picked up my car today which has the new style rear lights fitted (4th set ) foc under goodwill due to extreme condensation problems and they look great.....so far.
Very pleased but I'll be keeping an eye on them to see if ay problems develop with them and let you know

Jim

[psyho]

Hi all, sorry, but I need to revive an old topic...

Does anyone have any problems with condensation or their rear light clusters???

My A6 is 2 years old now and I'm on my 3 rd replacement set ( all under warranty from Audi )...the set on now, replaced in January is also showing very noticeable signs of condensation......NOT GOOD!
My car is kept clean n loved and generally looks great most of the time so this is really annoying the hell outa me...
Lookin for feedback guys....I'm sure this is a known issue

UPDATE 31/03/09 - Called into the dealer today re this and other issues. This is the 3rd replacement set as previously stated changed late January and they are now full of condensation. according to the tech, this is "normal" and once lights are activated the heat will disperse the moisture....BULLS**T !!
told him I've had Jags, Fords, Vauxhalls, VW's and Saabs none of which showed these issues and it is NOT normal and I want them replaced under warranty AGAIN!
I've spoken with AUDI direct on this and it WILL be replaced one way or another. The only way it seems to stop this is to only drive the car on dry days and never under any circumstances wash it:confused:
For your info....I happen to know that this dealer hass replaced 15 sets of A6 rear lights this year alone???
Stock at Audi to date for these lights sit at 250+.....Can you imagine how many sets that is? Can you imagine the costs related to these parts alone??? Not normal in any way shape or fashion IMO
I want this thread to be made sticky, or better still take a poll to try and get an idea of how many may have been replaced to date or how many people have these issues but have not yet complained or asked the question only to be told NO by Audi!
In the event that these are not replaced my intention, if necessary is to raise the matter with the BBC's Watchdog programme.
Comments please?


Jim

Hi, my A6 is 2.5 year and it has the same problem, my friend has the same car and as well the same problem. I'm going tomorrow to my Audi dealer to replace them under warranty. it isn't big deal but it should happening in my opinion.

[psyho]

any one has got answer ?? Is it LED lights will fit to 2006 salon Audi A6 ? Dealer said me that now you hear stated that yes. (???)
Thanks

[nobbyuk]

If you mean the '09 LED tail lights, the answer is no, unless you also fit an '09 boot lid. It may also require new rear panels as the boot lid appears to be a different shape.

There where two versions of rear cluster for the 05-09 car. In the UK, if you had halogen headlights, then you had normal bulb tail lights. However, if you had Xenon headlights, then you had "highline" tail lights, which had LED brake lights. All other bulbs are the same, but there is an LED strip across the top of the unit for the brake lights.
This can be retro fitted to the car and is a straight swap for the existing rear cluster. Simply requires a vagcode to enable the LED brake lights.

Hope that helsp
Dave

[psyho]

Thnak you very much, thIs is now clear for me.
Kind Regards

[JimC64]

If you mean the '09 LED tail lights, the answer is no, unless you also fit an '09 boot lid. It may also require new rear panels as the boot lid appears to be a different shape.

There where two versions of rear cluster for the 05-09 car. In the UK, if you had halogen headlights, then you had normal bulb tail lights. However, if you had Xenon headlights, then you had "highline" tail lights, which had LED brake lights. All other bulbs are the same, but there is an LED strip across the top of the unit for the brake lights.
This can be retro fitted to the car and is a straight swap for the existing rear cluster. Simply requires a vagcode to enable the LED brake lights.

Hope that helsp
Dave


Great explanation Nobby and thats exactly what they did to my A6;)

[nobbyuk]

Hi Jim,

Have you checked the fog and reversing lights are the right way round ?

I was looking at the coding of the central convenience module on my car the other day and tried to work out how the code was derived. When I added up all my options, it came to a number higher than the coding. If I took out the code for "Right hand steering" I got the right code.

Just wandering if they added the code for Right hand steering to yours. I think that may control which side the fog light is. Could be wrong though, I'm certainly no VAG COM expert.

Cheers
Dave

[JimC64]

Hey Nobby, sorry I haven't had time to check but I'm sure they're fine - havin said that you know I'll check the next time I'm out n about in her....lol

Too busy tryin to get the rear number plate leds to stop throwin codes....they look the absolute mutts nutts but only stay on for around 30 secs and then the bulb out light comes on......looks like I need to get a resistor put in......any ideas who could help with this for me?
Already done the dome interior lights and just waiting for the map reading lights to arrive to do them too.


Jim

[SpinneyA6]

Only had my 2007 A6 a few weeks and after washing it at the weekend have noticed fogging of the rear light cluster and also side indicator lenses.

I'm taking it in on friday to have it looked at and hopefully replaced. I've already got the highline tail lights so I'm guessing they will just swap them.

Has there been a fix for this problem or is it that some of the seals were just dodgy?

[JimC64]

Hey there Spinney.....If you have the later versions, chances are they'll just swap them out for you. They have at least 2 different suppliers I believe.
I found that the later ones I received were from a different supplier and once fitted had no problems since.
Just remember - take no nonsense and stand your ground, especially as you're still under warranty.
This is a known issue

[SpinneyA6]

Cheers Jim,

I might print off this thread and take it along just in case!

[JimC64]

Jeeesh - the drivers side rear light has serious condensation AGAIN.....well, more like water droplets accumulating and it looks nasty:mad:
Called the dealership to complain yesterday - to be absolutely fair to them. They've arranged not only to replace the light and re-seal it, but also to send out a mobile tech to carrry out the work to my home address.
This'll be the 6th light replaced to date though - not good!

Jim

[MFGF]

Darn! Was this with your new Highline LED rear lights? We were all hoping your problem was fixed by having these fitted.

Sorry to hear you're still struggling with the problem. Keep smiling!

MF.

[JimC64]

Hey MFGF, unbelievable I know. What gets to me more is the fact that there are hundreds of Audi drivers out there all suffering the same problem and not shouting about it:mad:
Sheer weight of numbers seems to be the only way they are gonna rectify the problem.

I did hear, that they were designed to "breathe" to allow for this condition, which I find strange. I woulda thought they would have been sealed which is what the dealership were told to do by Audi on my last set. The passenger side is still ok, just the drivers side gone, so maybe they just didn't manage to seal that side as well?

[Guest 2]

Sorry for bringing this topic back uup the board,
Got my rear lights replaced last Saturday (31st Oct), all was fine when I collected the car, clear lights and no fogging/condensation and two days later (2nd Nov) theyve started again in the exact same place!

I know this is a bad thought but my wife thinks they actually never replaced them and just wiped the condensation away :S What does she know!

Car is booked in tomorrow (7th Nov) and hopefully this new set will last longer than two days!

Chris

[MFGF]

Two weeks? Wow! That must be a record! Mine usually stayed clear for a month or two before the first signs of condensation reappeared. Might be worth asking them to seal the breather holes on the next set to see if it makes a difference?

MF.

[Guest 2]

Two weeks? Wow! That must be a record! Mine usually stayed clear for a month or two before the first signs of condensation reappeared. Might be worth asking them to seal the breather holes on the next set to see if it makes a difference?

MF.

2 days actually :biglaugh:

Got them replaced again at weekend (7th Nov) and all is still good, had a lot of heavy rain this afternoon so the car is still wet. If they go again i'll be straight on the phone again for another set!

Chris

[jUsT2eXy]

Just checked mine and they too have condensation on the reverse light section..and the red area. You can see the water dripping and the condensation clearly.

What is wrong with these lights?

I have the LED ones (2006). The car isn't under warranty..what can I do?

Will my complaining get me anywhere? From what I have heard replacing them with new ones will get rid of the problem for a while and then the condensation will return?

Is it a design fault? Can't believe there hadn't been any recalls..

[Guest 2]

Its a design fault.

No warranty? You'll have to pay unfortunately. I still have the luxury of the original warranty so i'm getting them done as many times as I can before its up.

My new ones (Non-LED) lasted 2 days before the condensation returned. Im going to get the car booked in on Saturday for them o get replaced again.

Chris

[JimC64]

Well guys, just picked my car up after the non start issue was " resolved ".......we'll see!
I had my 7th or 8th set I think it is of rear lights replaced as previously posted due to severe condensation.
The dealer Again stressed that this is NOT covered by Audi but they have replaced them themselves for me, and will essentially put it in as something else......basically hiding the problem.
I wonder how many hundreds / thousands of times this is done up n down the country? No wonder Audi do not know the severity of the problem:(

anyhow..we'll see how long these last???

[JimC64]

I can't believe I'm posting back into this thread probably around 2 years or more from when I first started it and 7or 8 replacements sets later!!!!

My condensation is back with a vengeance, its there on both sides but much more noticeable on the drivers side. I'm hoping to get them off at some point soon, get them thoroughly dried out and re attached with copious amounts of silicone to try and solve the problem.

I just find it hard to believe that a marque like Audi won't stand behind their issues such as this.......Thats a big FAIL for Audi from me I have to say.

[gupsterg]

.

[coolraj003]

I also have this issue on mine which is a 07 2.0 with normal. Im not too fussed about the LED ones or anything just want this thing sorted. I do have their AUdi Comprehensive warranty so I suppose it should be covered under that.

Raj

[Guest 2]

It's the norm now everytime my car goes in for service, the clusters are always replaced.

You think within 6 years of the C6 model they would've cracked the design and stopped the problem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MFGF]

They have fixed the issue on the facelift C6s, but I guess the design of the pre-facelift lights is such that it's difficult to prevent.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Guest 2]

Mine are fogged up again, will mention this when it's in for it's service in 1700 miles.

All going good for once though! ;)

[JimC64]

Snap Chris..............damn PITA!!

I hope to have my car back in a few days and this is one job I'm thinking of tackling myself........perhaps get them off, dry them out properly and then look at using some clear silicone sealant as and where required to see how that goes!
If I do I may perhaps try and do some sort of write up with a view to dropping back into the post on a week by week, month by month basis to report how its holding up............someone should I think!
Lets be honest - It can't be any worse than what we've suffered with for the past few years!!

[kerbdog]

Might anti moisture packets (http://www.silicagelpackets.com/silica-gel-packets) be a hack solution for those outside of warranty?

[joshA6]

Might anti moisture packets (http://www.silicagelpackets.com/silica-gel-packets) be a hack solution for those outside of warranty?

I would dry them out and go the silicon route. there are only 3 places water can get in - the seal between the lens and plastic, the back bulb cover or the wiring loom itself. I would suspect it is the first, so a bead of silicon should help.

[Romio]

Had a same problem. Take the rubber seal between the lens and plastic out, spray it with silicon spray(so the rubber doesnt get old, keeps it flexible) and put it back but differently (upside down), so the rubber will seal the two parts better. And dont forget to dry them. Or just get a new rubber seal from audi....

[r2sma]

Having a 2007 model, im out of warranty and assume im wasting my time visiting a dealership to complain, however, i emptied a handful of silica gel crystals into the rear light casing itself them re-assembled the back bulb cover. This almost dried out the lights over night and touch wood, have remained dry since! I bought a fair sized tin of the crystals, so i will empty and replace on a regular basis maybe every two or three months if it means error free light warnings.
My condensation re-appeared with avengance when i went through a mobile car wash when they used the power washers, so maybe one to avoid!!

[JimC64]

Ok, so what with one thing or another I still haven't got round to my hubs / calipers and the rear light condensation issue, but I've been keeping an eye on this thread with interest for sure.

I'm really keen to try the silicone method and get everything sealed up tight as a drum in the first instance, but I'm reading the silica gel scenario with interest too.

Questions are though......
1. packets or crystals?
2. Are the crystals visible in any shape or form when the lights are on?

[smithgrant11]

Had the same issues with my rear light cluster as everyone else seems to have had. Had them replaced by the dealer and problem came back within a few months. Decided to apply a fix myself after reading this thread and the steps below worked for me (so far):

1) Took both light units out and dried them off carefully with a hairdryer (takes ages and need to be careful not to overheat and damage the units).
2) Applied a thin bead of translucent silicon to the outer perimeter of the light unit to ensure there were no holes between the lens and the unit itself.
3) Removed the black seal between the bulb holder and the lens unit and turned it around to ensure a better seal - maybe best to completely replace the seal with a new one and / or run some silicon around the "valley" that holds the black seal, letting it dry before replacing the seal.
4) Bought some 1g dessicant silicon pouches from eBay (for a couple of pounds). Added 6 to each light cluster at the bottom (through the indicator and reverse light bulb holes).

Seems to have resolved the issue and much more useful than listening to Audi tell me "they are not sealed units", and "the heat of the bulbs will dry them out"!

You can only see the silicon pouches up close and looking down into the reflective mirror through the reverse light window. For me, this is a better situation than the horrible look of the condensation in the reverse light window. Hope this helps.

Grant

A6 3.0TDI saloon Quattro Le Mans 57 plate.

[JimC64]

Hey Grant, thanks for the info.....

this is something I'm still trying o get around to doing, hopefully soon, and I intend to go about it in the same way myself. I'm not really sure about the dessicant pouches though as even seeing them close up would really bug me I think. I'm hoping that the other options properly done will resolve the issue once and for all...................I will of course come back and post here once done with any follow ups as necessary.

[JimC64]

Hey guys,
today, after spending about 4 hours repainting my hubs n calipers and cleaning my alloys for the summer season ( write up / pics in additional thread ) I decided I HAD to try and do something about my rear light clusters.:zx11::zx11:

As posted here many times previously mine were terrible with bad condensation, in all areas but pretty bad and clearly visible especially in the clear reverse light section and with "fogging" in the brake light area.
I've included some old pics for reference below but they were pretty much as you see in the pics attached.



16509
16510

So, with help from the write ups on here / detailed diagrams on how to remove the clusters, I proceeded to remove them both.
My son and I both sat with a hairdryer each for around 20 - 30 mins and managed to dry off all water/ condensation droplets.
I then examined the seal around the bulb holder and removed to reinstall it to provide more of a "seal" and do the job it was designed to do.
Then, I applied a bead of clear silicone sealant all around the leading edges of the lights before reinstalling.............

I don't have any pictures I'm ashamed to say but will add them shortly, I assure you.

Suffice to say I now have nice as new looking lights with NO condensation and a much smarter appearance from the rear, which I hope will stay that way.
I hope I don't have to, but will return here and repost should the problem return.

Thanks for reading...........:beerchug:

[JimC64]

1653216531

Here's a few pics of my rear lights after the work I have done..............not the best pictures so I do apologise but trust me, what a difference!!

I'll keep an eye on them and come back and update as necessary...
http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/images/styles/GamerRed/misc/pencil.png

[gupsterg]

.

[JimC64]

Well, my condensation issue has returned with a vengeance I'm sorry to say, obviously I didn't do as good a job as I thought I had:o

So, I'm thinking I'm going to remove them again and dry them out again and redo the silicone seal around the edges. I did this before though, in all honesty I think the issue may be at the ( side) of the lights where the plastic "seal" gets attached and is in the boot inner area, if that makes sense?

Anyhow, I'm hoping to get another good look at it andalso intend to buy some of these "silica gel packets" and insert a few..........There's quite a few have done this over various forums and various marques with similar issues, all posting good results.

Time will tell and I'll repost my progress.............hopefully being able to write about a fix this time.

Thanks :beerchug:

[Brycie]

I know exactly where you mean Jim, I've looked at those little plastic bits myself & thought they looked like they could be the problem. They kind of look like an after-thought & aren't really secured on very snugly/securely.

I may give the silica gel packets a go too since it's been suggested recently, but I must admit I've been considering Gup's method since getting the car.It was my Father-In-Law's suggestion originally & I thought it waould make sense, but wasn't brave enough to do it. If Gup's is working though, I'm a little more confident now. Stands to reason though that air circulating will prevent condensation, but may just try silica gel first as it'll be easier & less permanent.

[JimC64]

I am just sharing what I've done, what you do with this info your choice/responsibility...
[/B]When do guide for Chris on Avant tail light removal will post photos as yesterday sporadic rain happening so just wanted to do and fit...
**** UPDATE ****
Still working, no condensation no water ingress from general rain fall,etc :)


Hey Gup, where's the pics buddy?
Being the helpful and thorough guy you are I'm shocked ......lol

If you do get the chance I'd love to see pics of what you did.............sometimes a pic is worth a thousand words as you know, but, only if you have them already in your posession.

Thanks Gup

[JimC64]

I know exactly where you mean Jim, I've looked at those little plastic bits myself & thought they looked like they could be the problem. They kind of look like an after-thought & aren't really secured on very snugly/securely.

I may give the silica gel packets a go too since it's been suggested recently, but I must admit I've been considering Gup's method since getting the car.It was my Father-In-Law's suggestion originally & I thought it waould make sense, but wasn't brave enough to do it. If Gup's is working though, I'm a little more confident now. Stands to reason though that air circulating will prevent condensation, but may just try silica gel first as it'll be easier & less permanent.


Brycie - nice to know we're on the same page my friend.
my thinking is that as the plastic covers don't really form a "seal" as such rain water, and water from wasging the car runs down the shut lines and can enter at that point!

I have the silica gel packs now and really want to give that a go, I just need to check my clear silicone is still good to go or buy more, then I can tackle this again.

As per your post though, if this doesn't do the trick I'll be looking for Gup's pics and giving that a go as an additional mod to see if that cures it for me too....................The race is on for lights WITHOUT condensation :biglaugh:

[JimC64]

Ok guys, here's what I've managed to do today......

Its kinda wet here at the moment to say the least but I was detemined, so removed the light clusters and wrapped the bulb
holders in bin bags to keep them dry.
The removal process as most of you know is fairly simple and well documented here iirc.

With the lights off the car I took them inside to examine them a little closer, the passenger side was the worst by far with
lots of water droplets forming inside as well as the hazing in the upper left area. The drivers, not so bad but still clearly issues there too.


http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightcondensation2.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightcondensation1.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightcondebsation.jpg

As you can see, pretty bad, enough to really get on my nerves, especially after she's just been washed and is shining looking great,
as long as you don't look at the rear :zx11:


So I looked out the hairdryer, readied the silicone ( clear and waterproof of course!! ) and had the silica gel packs to hand
as well as you can see below........

The wife's away on business so its ok to work on the dining room table as long as she doesn't
find out....SHHHHHH!!!!

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lights.jpg


So I started by going at them with the hairdryer full bung, moving it around though and from hole to hole so as not to cause
any issues due to the heat and possible warping etc. It was going well, but I soon added the silicone gel packs in an affort to
speed up the process.
About 45 mins later I ended up with this.........

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightdried.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightdried1.jpg

Lookin good so far :approve:

Well, I got the silicone sealant gun going and made a bead all the way around the lights where the lens meets the bulb holder
section ( clearly these are two parts fused together after other work is carried out - and not very well IMO either )
Just a thin bead all the way around,then smoothed any excess off with a wet cloth or similar.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightsclearsiliconebead1.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightsclearsiliconebead.jpg

I then put them into the drying room with the tumble dryer on full blast to try and speed up the curing process of the silicone.
This really helped and after 30 minutes or so they're all but dry!

Once thats sorted I'll be adding around 3 or 4 of the silica gel packs to the bottom of the light assy, where they'll be hidden
and will re attach and see how it turns out.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/silicagelpacks.jpg


The plastic insert covers at the side of the light housing - I'm considering once these are attached and in place running a thin
bead underneath the leading edge all round then using masking tape to hold that tightly to the body until it cures, thus hopefully
creating a better seal in that area..............I don't believe that these covers do what they're supposed to do and most of my moisture
seems to start in those areas, which I don't think is coincidence.

Once its all done I'm going to try and give it a day or so to settle and then get the hose out ( unless its still bucketing down
as it is now, in which case that won't be necessary ) and really put it to the test.

Good or bad, fixed or not, I'll come back and post to let you know the results

Cheers
Jim

[Guest 2]

Good job Jim ... Looks great!

Just a quick question, would you mind me putting this in the buyers guide? Of course you will be credited in the finished article :D

[JimC64]

Good job Jim ... Looks great!

Just a quick question, would you mind me putting this in the buyers guide? Of course you will be credited in the finished article :D

Many thanks Chris and of course not, do as you see fit buddy.
Whats mine is yours an all that

I'm just about to edit it though to include close up pics of the silica gel packs and also of the silicone bead around the edge, so if you give it 10 minutes that should be done

[Brycie]

Wow, you weren't kidding when you said 'the race is on' :D. You didn't hang around.

Looks so good when they're dry, doesn't it. Strangely though, I've never needed to use a hairdrier as the fact that I take them off & the air gets to them, the condensation normally all but cures itself. (Maybe it's something to do with the humidity in the air when I've done it as I've chosen nice days :confused:).

I'm sure I've heard somewhere that putting a couple of packs of silica gel in your tool box keeps rust & corrosion away, so hopefully them being in there may stop the black spots forming on the contact points as well as stopping the condensation that causes the black spots.

Fingers crossed for you though Jim!

[JimC64]

Edited - to include further pics and correct spelling mistakes, my bad!

Ok guys, here's what I've managed to do today......

Its kinda wet here at the moment to say the least but I was detemined, so removed the light clusters and wrapped the bulb
holders in bin bags to keep them dry.
The removal process as most of you know is fairly simple and well documented here iirc.

With the lights off the car I took them inside to examine them a little closer, the passenger side was the worst by far with
lots of water droplets forming inside as well as the hazing in the upper left area. The drivers, not so bad but still clearly issues there too.


http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightcondensation2.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightcondensation1.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightcondebsation.jpg

As you can see, pretty bad, enough to really get on my nerves, especially after she's just been washed and is shining looking great,
as long as you don't look at the rear :zx11:


So I looked out the hairdryer, readied the silicone ( clear and waterproof of course!! ) and had the silica gel packs to hand
as well as you can see below........

The wife's away on business so its ok to work on the dining room table as long as she doesn't
find out....SHHHHHH!!!!

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lights.jpg


So I started by going at them with the hairdryer full bung, moving it around though and from hole to hole so as not to cause
any issues due to the heat and possible warping etc. It was going well, but I soon added the silicone gel packs in an affort to
speed up the process.
About 45 mins later I ended up with this.........

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightdried.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightdried1.jpg

Lookin good so far :approve:

Well, I got the silicone sealant gun going and made a bead all the way around the lights where the lens meets the bulb holder
section ( clearly these are two parts fused together after other work is carried out - and not very well IMO either )
Just a thin bead all the way around,then smoothed any excess off with a wet cloth or similar.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightsclearsiliconebead1.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightsclearsiliconebead.jpg

I then put them into the drying room with the tumble dryer on full blast to try and speed up the curing process of the silicone.
This really helped and after 30 minutes or so they're all but dry!

Once thats sorted I'll be adding around 3 or 4 of the silica gel packs to the bottom of the light assy, where they'll be hidden
and will re attach and see how it turns out.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/silicagelpacks.jpg


The plastic insert covers at the side of the light housing - I'm considering once these are attached and in place running a thin
bead underneath the leading edge all round then using masking tape to hold that tightly to the body until it cures, thus hopefully
creating a better seal in that area..............I don't believe that these covers do what they're supposed to do and most of my moisture
seems to start in those areas, which I don't think is coincidence.


Lights are now back on the car and lookin good. Even though I was very careful with the silicone to make sure I just got enough on and around the edges only, I still had a little clean up to do here n there, but it was well worth it.
See pics below of the worst light now good as new.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightoncar.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightoncar1.jpg

Now its all done I'm going to try and give it a day or so to settle and then get the hose out ( unless its still bucketing down
as it is now, in which case that won't be necessary ) and really put it to the test.

Good or bad, fixed or not, I'll come back and post to let you know the results

Cheers
Jim

[gupsterg]

.

[JimC64]

Nice one Gup, thanks for sharing and lovin the car too.

Depending on how my lights react I may have to look out my drill too!

[MFGF]

Currently car away :( so once she back will post photos... :)

Link:- My Chain Stuff pictures by gupsterg - Photobucket (http://s1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/My%20Chain%20Stuff/)

Sorry for not replying to your email Jim :Blush: been busy as you can see in album...

:yikes: That looks like a serious job, Gup! Good luck!!

[MFGF]

Nice one Gup, thanks for sharing and lovin the car too.

Depending on how my lights react I may have to look out my drill too!

Nice job Jim! Let us know how the repair holds!

[gupsterg]

.

[JimC64]

Nice job Jim! Let us know how the repair holds!

Thanks Mark, appreciate the comments.

It rained all day and night last night prety hard and usually I'd see something there, even if only a hazing / misting but nothing so far.
I'm going to hold off though until I've washed the car a few times, running loads of excess water over the roof and down the channels into the shut lines of the boot ( thats where I think the issue is to be honest - the plastic boot seal covers ) and also use a pressure washer direct on the lights and general area to give it a good test.

I'm not sure how hopeful I am but I will post the results in an ongoing basis so that others can see if this could be classed as a fix or not!

Gup - thats a big job mate and from what you say, really indepth so you can forget about it probably for the lifetime of the car other than routine maintenance of course. Hope all goes well and look forward to your posting.

Jim

[JimC64]

Re Edited - to include videos of water over the lights and after vid to show results

Ok guys, here's what I've managed to do today......

Its kinda wet here at the moment to say the least but I was detemined, so removed the light clusters and wrapped the bulb
holders in bin bags to keep them dry.
The removal process as most of you know is fairly simple and well documented here iirc.

With the lights off the car I took them inside to examine them a little closer, the passenger side was the worst by far with
lots of water droplets forming inside as well as the hazing in the upper left area. The drivers, not so bad but still clearly issues there too.


http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightcondensation2.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightcondensation1.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightcondebsation.jpg

As you can see, pretty bad, enough to really get on my nerves, especially after she's just been washed and is shining looking great,
as long as you don't look at the rear :zx11:


So I looked out the hairdryer, readied the silicone ( clear and waterproof of course!! ) and had the silica gel packs to hand
as well as you can see below........

The wife's away on business so its ok to work on the dining room table as long as she doesn't
find out....SHHHHHH!!!!

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lights.jpg


So I started by going at them with the hairdryer full bung, moving it around though and from hole to hole so as not to cause
any issues due to the heat and possible warping etc. It was going well, but I soon added the silicone gel packs in an affort to
speed up the process.
About 45 mins later I ended up with this.........

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightdried.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightdried1.jpg

Lookin good so far :approve:

Well, I got the silicone sealant gun going and made a bead all the way around the lights where the lens meets the bulb holder
section ( clearly these are two parts fused together after other work is carried out - and not very well IMO either )
Just a thin bead all the way around,then smoothed any excess off with a wet cloth or similar.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightsclearsiliconebead1.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightsclearsiliconebead.jpg

I then put them into the drying room with the tumble dryer on full blast to try and speed up the curing process of the silicone.
This really helped and after 30 minutes or so they're all but dry!

Once thats sorted I'll be adding around 3 or 4 of the silica gel packs to the bottom of the light assy, where they'll be hidden
and will re attach and see how it turns out.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/silicagelpacks.jpg


The plastic insert covers at the side of the light housing - I'm considering once these are attached and in place running a thin
bead underneath the leading edge all round then using masking tape to hold that tightly to the body until it cures, thus hopefully
creating a better seal in that area..............I don't believe that these covers do what they're supposed to do and most of my moisture
seems to start in those areas, which I don't think is coincidence.


Lights are now back on the car and lookin good. Even though I was very careful with the silicone to make sure I just got enough on and around the edges only, I still had a little clean up to do here n there, but it was well worth it.
See pics below of the worst light now good as new.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightoncar.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/lightoncar1.jpg

Now its all done I'm going to try and give it a day or so to settle and then get the hose out ( unless its still bucketing down
as it is now, in which case that won't be necessary ) and really put it to the test.

Good or bad, fixed or not, I'll come back and post to let you know the results


Update - I spent some time today and got the garden hose out and drenched both rear lights in a serious flow of water. This was enough IMO to simulate a lengthy car wash and or a day or two of heavy rain.
Please see video below

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/th_rearlightsdrenchedinwater.jpg (http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/?action=view&current=rearlightsdrenchedinwater.mp4)



Below is another short video showing the lights dried off afterwards and are still dry on the inside!
Normally for me, after a car wash, or a time of heavy rain etc I get some droplets forming inside the lens,
at the very least there is usually some form of hazing / misting, but none here so at present, so far so good.


http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/th_lightsdried.jpg (http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/?action=view&current=lightsdried.mp4)


I realise its still early days and will monitor them over the coming days and weeks when
getting the car washed and or during any heavy rain and keep you updated one way or another.

Please accept my apologies on the dirty car, tailpipes need a clean etc, quite embarrasing so no
comments please!..........lol

Cheers
Jim

[Brycie]

Excellent, that's a promising sign then.

And, erm, what dirt on the tailpipes? You call that dirty? I hope you never see the state of mine then as it'd probably give you a coronary.

[JimC64]

Excellent, that's a promising sign then.
And, erm, what dirt on the tailpipes? You call that dirty? I hope you never see the state of mine then as it'd probably give you a coronary.

Lol, Thanks Brycie...........yes, definitely promising buddy. I still swear blind that the issue is where the two pieces are fused together and at the side of the boot, where the plastic covers are!
If you look at the 2 joins all the way around there is a "groove of sorts" I used to watch as I washed the car, and if you lok at the top of the lights and also around the lights, there is water trapped in that area that seems to circulate ( presumably as more water drips in forming a flow effect )
That water, I'm convinced flows down the groove on the side where the plastic seal covers are and leaks through very small holes there.

As I've sealed all around that with clear waterproof silicone, my belief is thats stopped the problem. The plastic seal covers are very difficult to replace and I've probably not replaced them quite as good as the Audi techs would and the lights are still dry at the moment.............I've just checked again, around a few hours after posting my vids as its been raining quite heavily here. I've dried off the lights and had another look and they're still nice n dry inside.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed and will report back over the coming days and weeks as promised.

Lol @ dirty tailpipes comment - they're dirty enough although just a bit of loose sooty covering I guess. That'll just wipe away when its cleaned properly.

[JimC64]

Update - After my wash down with the garden hose yesterday, per videos in post( #69 ) they were still dry.
I checked late again last night after a fair bit of rain and still ok. Finally I checked again this mornng on the basis that there may have been some leakage and it could have taken some time to show as in a misting effect, but still all good so far!!

Looks like I may have won a watch :beerchug:

As previously I''ll still check over the coming days n weeks and advise, good or bad

Thanks

Jim

[MFGF]

Yay! Great news Jim!! I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you!

Oh, and get those exhaust pipes cleaned up at once! Shocking!! ;)

MF.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[coolraj003]

Jim, are you sure the water was going in through the grooves where the lens and the rest of the back meets or could it have been the seal in the bulb housing. Today was a fairly decent day so first I had changed the sidelights to LEDs in the front and changed to Osrams Nightbreakers. Then after washing it a bit I saw the misty tail lights and got them out as well. Now looking at the groove that you are talking about I didn't find anything wrong in particular tbh. Although the rubber that seals the bulb housing to the cluster looked a bit dodgy. So I took that out and applied a bit of silicone in the groove before re-seating the rubber in it again. I didnt bother with the seal where the lens meets the rest of the body. I am not holding my breath but if anything does come up i shall post it up.

Good luck to us all.

Raj

[JimC64]

Hey Raj / all............UPDATE>>>>>

Well, its been 3-4 days now since I had a look at the lights trying to resolve the condensation issue.

As stated initially and for the first day or so, even after heavily soaking the area with a garden hose as well as experiencing heavy rain all was well. Its now day 4 or 5 I guess and I have to sadly report I have a little light misting now.

Don't get me wrong its a lot better than it was, but there's still enough there to annoy me and is visible in the ( clear section only ) but it is there.

When I get the chance I'm thinking about taking them apart and having another look at the rubber seal that connects the bulb housing to the cluster ( I'm not convinced thats the issue ) but perhaps by trial and error we'll get there.

I may try checking out the rubber seal and buying another section of similar type material and cutting it to suit ( perhaps leaving it a little longer so it protrudes and even overlaps ) and go from there.

The next step after that may be the drilling holes at the rear of the housing as per Gup, but we'll see and take it one step at a time.

Car's going in to the dealer on Wednesday just for the ful filter and cabin pollen filter so I may ask the tech what / if any steps they've taken to resolve this issue.

So sorry I've had to come back with negative news on this guys, I really am, but we all need to know where we are with this.
Thanks :beerchug:

Jim

[gupsterg]

.

[JimC64]

Mine been AOK since "Driller Killer" :) gonna do outer right side as well as only get minor mist in that :)

Only my opinion you have to think of it like if condensation/mist happen in car cabin windows we clear via either demister fans or dropping window...

I finally get car on Monday fingers cross will post photos ASAP then Jim :)


Thanks Gup..................happy you're getting your car back mate and look forward to the pics.
Hope all is 100% for you mate :beerchug:

[Brycie]

Thanks for the update Jim, though I am gutted for you - looked so promising for a while there. Like you said though it's a trial & error process.

Would be great to see the location of the drill holes Gup, I think I'm gonna follow your lead & solve it using airflow - I'll stick a couple of packs of silica inthere too to help prevent corrosion. Pics will be much appreciated.

Cheers,
Paul.

[JimC64]

Well, found an hour or so tonight and removed the lights and got the hair dryer out :aargh4::aargh4:...........its becoming a regular thing now.....lol

I keep telling myself ( I WILL WIN this fight, I WILL WIN this fight ) over and over but don't know if I really believe it :zx11:

Dried the lights out all over again, there was only very light misting so it didn't take long. I decided to remove the silica gel packs once the lights were thoroughly dried.
I then rechecked the rubber seal in the bulb connector, there's a little channel with some round seal in there that expands when the two surfaces are pushed together tightly, or at least thats the idea I think.

Anyhow, I removed this and re inserted very lightly all round ensuring the ends met tightly together and offered the two parts together and snapped shut tighly with a click, ensuring all 4 locking pieces ahd clicked tightly together.

Once the lights were re isntalled I ran a light beading of the clear waterptoof silicone where the plastic seal covers meet the boot area. There's a bit of a gap there and I wanted to ensure as much of that as possible was sealed nice n tight. So a nice bead then pressure to form a tight seal and mastic tape over it onto the body to hold it in place for a few hours.


I'll post back over the coming days n weeks telling you how it goes, good or bad :beerchug:

[Brycie]

You'd think that at some point you're going to hit on the problem area/areas with the silicone that you're applying & strike jackpot eventually, by process of elimination. Good work fella, keep up the good fight & I'll await the next verdict. Your patience & determination deserves a victory.

[coolraj003]

Well I have been keeping any eye on mine since i applied a lil silicone in the inside groove under the black seal. The dreaded mist is back again. So next time I will try something different.

Raj

[as400]

Have to respect your determination to get to the bottom of this problem Jim! Just been out to my 07 plate and yes I have internal condensation on the off side light cluster, seems to be most easily seen in the clear reversing section.

[JimC64]

Thanks As400 :beerchug:

Raj - similar story here mate unfortunately. I've been keeping an eye on mine and its back, as per As though, most clearly visible in the clear reversing section.

To be fair what I've done to date has helped, I did have misting in the end sections, now not so.

So to summarise, yes a definite improvement, but not 100% yet!

Gup - details of where you're at and if you're still clear?
If so I may have to get the drill out and try that I think.

[gupsterg]

.

[coolraj003]

If it worked on yours Gup then i wont mind giving it the same treatment too. I have been advised by my local mechanic to drill a couple of holes but at that time I thought it was a bit of a crude advise for a prestige motor as mine. Should have done that in the first place.

Raj

[gupsterg]

.

[Brycie]

Thanks very much for going to that trouble Gup, much appreciated mate.

[coolraj003]

Holy Cow!!!:aargh4:

Thats a lot of drilling, looks like I gotta change my rear tail lights into sieves as well. Am I correct in thinking that the 2007/57 onwards Merc C class has some sorta air vents in the rear tail lights. Anyone noticed em? Could it be something Audi should have considered too? Or are the Merc vents for something completely different reasons?

Raj

[Guest 2]

Think they're for aesthetics!

[gupsterg]

.

[gupsterg]

.

[coolraj003]

Having gotten around to doing the holes yet but to be fair I havent seen any mist in the lens since I put a clear silicone bead under the black seal on the bulb holders and rest of the cluster body. I have had it washed using jet wash a few times and its seen plenty of rain as well but no condensation to be reported. So it might be worth trying to remove the black rubber seal and put a clear silicone bead and reseat the seal in to see if that works before going to the drilling route. I will be going for the same drilling option if i do see any more misting but so far nothing seen...touching wood. Hope this helps.

Raj

[gazza57]

On my second set of rear lights, the rears were full of moisture and yes I had the old chestnut about switching the lights on would clear the moisture.... yeah right

Once the lights start leaking then they need replacement, the moisture never ever clears and all of your copper contacts are immersed in a moisture laden atmosphere which will cause corrosion and eventual failure.

The main problem is when you open the boot and then close it during a rainy day you trap moisture laden air inside the boot, condensation will by it's nature form where there is a temperature gradient and warm moist air reaches a cold surface.

The seals on the rear light clusters fail to keep out the moisture laden air which condenses in the warm atmosphere inside the light cluster.
LED lights run much cooler, therefore no significant temperature gradient occurs and hence no condensation QED



Have approached my local dealer with a view to changing them for LED lights they accept that they have to be changed but their service manager was due to call me to discuss changing them out for LED's I did say I'd be happy to pay the difference but as yet despite promising to call yesterday, I 've yet to hear from him.

Gazza57

[coolraj003]

This is something i can concur but after taking the clusters out last time i found the rubber seals not being seated properly in the groove there by allowing weak spots for the moisture to enter the unit. After drying the lights out last time, I added a bead of clear silicone and seated the black rubber seals properly without any creases and I have to admit the moisture has not shown yet. I have had it washed with pressure washers and have been driving through rain and been through all sorts but so far I have not seen any condensation in the lights. Its a bit of a tedious job to get this all done but so far it is paying dividends to me at least. Not sure if anyone else tried it and what their success rate was...if any? Might be worth trying.

Regards
Raj

[gupsterg]

.

[JimC64]

Please see my responses below...........


This is something i can concur but after taking the clusters out last time i found the rubber seals not being seated properly in the groove there by allowing weak spots for the moisture to enter the unit. After drying the lights out last time, I added a bead of clear silicone and seated the black rubber seals properly without any creases and I have to admit the moisture has not shown yet. I have had it washed with pressure washers and have been driving through rain and been through all sorts but so far I have not seen any condensation in the lights. Its a bit of a tedious job to get this all done but so far it is paying dividends to me at least. Not sure if anyone else tried it and what their success rate was...if any? Might be worth trying.

Regards
Raj

Thanks for the heads up Raj, much appreciated.

I've had other things to be getting on with and time is at a premium recently. My efforts have failed and the moisture is back with a vengeance I'm afraid.
I may decide to try your route and or the drilling holes method as well............In for a penny in for a pound...lol

Cheers



I've used sealant, so has JimC64 and possibly others... as to success rate I know mine failed on sealant after few month if IIRC....

I used sealant roughly 17/03/12, sealant method failed earlier than post for drilling on 24/06/12...

I think Jim's failed quicker Post 79 (17/07/12), Post 83 (21/07/12), he applied on 10/07/12 post 62...

With drilling holes on unit mine still all working AOK... no condensation, no failed units so far :)

Thanks Gup, and you're bang on with your analysis too!

As above given time I think I may try Raj's fix in conjunction with yours, or try this way first, then add holes later if required and see how I get on.

Thanks for updating your findings, much appreciated as always

[Brycie]

On my second set of rear lights, the rears were full of moisture and yes I had the old chestnut about switching the lights on would clear the moisture.... yeah right

Once the lights start leaking then they need replacement, the moisture never ever clears and all of your copper contacts are immersed in a moisture laden atmosphere which will cause corrosion and eventual failure.

The main problem is when you open the boot and then close it during a rainy day you trap moisture laden air inside the boot, condensation will by it's nature form where there is a temperature gradient and warm moist air reaches a cold surface.

The seals on the rear light clusters fail to keep out the moisture laden air which condenses in the warm atmosphere inside the light cluster.
LED lights run much cooler, therefore no significant temperature gradient occurs and hence no condensation QED



Have approached my local dealer with a view to changing them for LED lights they accept that they have to be changed but their service manager was due to call me to discuss changing them out for LED's I did say I'd be happy to pay the difference but as yet despite promising to call yesterday, I 've yet to hear from him.

Gazza57

Ah, a new line of enquiry. Let us know what response you get Gazza if you don't mind. If you end up switching to LED's, it would be great to see some pictures too.

[gupsterg]

.

[MFGF]

I don't know what the facelift saloon LED tail lights are like...

They are all-LED affairs, Gup. Not a single incandescent bulb anywhere. They don't have the condensation problems either :)

MF.

[gupsterg]

.

[gazza57]

Update on the rear light issue with regard to condensation, the dealer has agreed to change the lights for LED ones but they are only willing to cover the original cost of £99.82 per side, the LED ones are £146.35 per side which means I have to pay £130 (the difference between the normal reflector and it's LED counterpart) , in addition I have to have the software amended to LED lights which is a further £70 (30 mins labour) making a total of £200 inc VAT but they will only carry this out once I can show them pictures of the condensation in the reflector, I did have this last week but it has since cleared.

I am waiting for it to appear again and when it does I shall take the photos and the modification will be carried out.


Gazza57:Blush:

[gazza57]

JimC64 & all,

An update on the rear light cluster condensation debacle, it now transpires that only Avants were fitted with LED lights and as mine is a saloon there is no alternative.
That I can accept but now despite changing the lights last march we again have the old chestnut that lights swimming in condensation is normal.

I have to say I am astonished that anyone would feel that to have a rear light fitting which has 3mm of water slooshing around inside is normal???

By what engineering standard is it normal to have a light fitting full of water?

"They advise this level of condensation is acceptable and does not need any kind of countermeasure"
So it would appear that 3mm of water slooshing around in the rear reflectors like some sort auto water feature is acceptable...... I think not.
It would appear that they have rewritten the laws of physics or found some special conducting material which is not affected by the exposure of same to a moisture laden atmosphere, can you see how ridiculous such a statement is and the disrepute to which such a statement will inevitably bring upon those who expound such utter nonsense?

"They also advise the fitting of LED lights would not cure the condensation"
Again the laws of physics appear to have been ignored, the basic premise by which condensation forms is a gradient of temperature between two surfaces, the greater the gradient of temperature the more condensation will occur once moist air at the higher temperature meets a cooler surface. A good example is your car windscreen, switch on demist, the temp gradient between the warm air and the cold surface is replaced by the application of a warm layer of air and hence the condensation disappears.
Now the rear lights in standard form consist of several 21Watt/5 Watt Stop Tail lights which typically draw 1.75A each at 12V the equivalent LED lights are of typically between 10-15mA which is 117 times lower power, lower power emits less heat less heat results in a shallower temperature gradient which itself precludes the forming of condensation.
What is suggested is that a cold light source such as that found inside LED lights either produces as much heat as a filament lamp despite using less than 0.0008 of the power (clearly not possible) or that by some magical physical phenomenon known only to a select few that this condensation will magically appear inside the LED lamps also despite the laws of physics suggesting otherwise.

I have decided I've had enough and I have walked away, I have been offered yet another replacement set but what's the point? there is an inherent design flaw here which allows the moist atmosphere to condense on a hot surface and replacing them with another badly designed set merely repeats the problem.
Needless to say after more than 20 years I fear this will be my last Audi

Gazza57

[Akash]

Not read the whole thread but in my own experience, I've had 2 A6 C6 personally and several as a loan car when mine has been in for repair/service etc
Every single one of them had the condensation issue.

In terms of LED vs normal bulb, the A6 c6 Saloon DOES have the LED option - mine was factory in my Le mans spec. It's possible it's part of the lighting/visibility pack or maybe just the le mans pack?
Either way, it is a factory option on the saloons however, only the brake light in the cluster is LED...the rest are normal bulbs.

My first A6, I had normal clusters which were replaced 4-5 times under warranty before they gave me the usual excuse that it will keep happening.
This one has had 2 replacements from memory and the most recent ones have the same issue.

To be honest, it's not causing me any issues apart from looking badly and that reflects on Audi, not me so I'll leave it. What I have had an issue with is the right cluster bulb holder went a month ago with random bulb failures every few minutes from cold start. Whether this was indirectly caused by the condensation - who knows.

If I feel like it, I may drill the holes as suggested and see if that remedies it but for now, a bulb holder fixed the issue and condensation can come and go as it pleases.

[JimC64]

Gazza - thanks for posting this up mate.

I feel your pain, I really do.........Its the only point that lets my car down and I feel I can do almost nothing about it!!

Like you I've had, I dunno, around 7 sets replaced under warranty and all have went the same........really annoying!!!

After several attempts in recent times not only is the condensation issue back, it's probably worse......have to laugh or I'll cry.

I'm hoping to get them out again, look out the hairdryer etc and dry them once more.............perhaps I'll try Gup's suggestion and drill a few holes to see where that gets me?
I don't really have much to lose.
Never ever had to do this on my Vauxhall / Ford / VW / Renault / Saab / Jaguar???

I love my Audi, love the brand and the experience in general but this really leaves a sour taste in the mouth for sure.
Perhaps instead of complaining we should look to group together and try to bring it to the attention of someone who could make things happen, such as a consumer programme that highlights poor products / services etc.

I really can't believe that Audi have got away with this for so long and continually tell people "Its NORMAL" and expect that to be the end of it.

Rant over....

[gazza57]

Trouble is Jim,
This is always the way out chosen, you can present the strongest case and quote the physics of condensation but the stock answer is always what THEY think and often it has nothing to do with the reality just the notion that to deny it is a problem makes it go away.

I have had my fill of Audi, enough to last me a lifetime, nothing on this planet can convince me that having a tail light full of water is normal ...end of story.

I had a similar situation a couple of years ago with my earlier A6, it had the concert radio which had a volume problem, the problem as with this one was being reported all over the place, the response was always that you were the first person they'd had, yeah right ok.

Later I managed to prove that the fault lay with faulty software flashed into the sets at the factory, the response I got? it's not covered sir, £250 for a new one??
Found a russian website which had investigated and identified the fault, I asked them to look at the site.. the response we don't recognise any other websites sir, well you wouldn't when they know more about your product than you do.

Upshot was I ended up paying £80 to a third party to get the faulty software removed and new modified software flashed into the set and hey presto problem gone never to return , their response was to tell me that as an unauthorised person had tampered with the radio then any warranty if in force would be invalidated, I politely told them it was well out of warranty and that I was happy that I had managed to prove the fault had been there the entire life of the radio and anyway I consider the fact that they haven't touched it as a bonus!!!!!

If I could sum up Audis I would do so thus:

The cars are magnificent... look wonderful drive equally as good...after sales service cheap and half baked , even the approved used Audis have guarantees which in my opinion are not worth toilet roll.

Gazza57

[toofunkyhouse]

I have found Audi's after sales great. They paid for a new P Zero Rosso on my spare wheel when I found the one in the boot was damaged. Then they replaced the clutch and slave cylinder on the warranty. I guess you get good and bad dealers with all brands.


Sent from my dog and bone using Tapatalk

[toofunkyhouse]

You can buy aftermarket led rears for the Pre facelift saloon.


Sent from my dog and bone using Tapatalk

[toofunkyhouse]

Back Rear Tail Lights for Audi A6 (saloon, 04-08), in red-black, with LED pair | eBay (http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem;PdsSession=991cf09113a0a5aa66725d32fff49f 38?itemId=300724420542&index=2&nav=SEARCH&nid=80876619781)


Sent from my dog and bone using Tapatalk

[Guest 2]

You can buy aftermarket led rears for the Pre facelift saloon.


Sent from my dog and bone using Tapatalk

Audi also do LED rears for the pre facelift saloon :)

[gazza57]

I agree too funky,
This is not a broad criticism of all Audi dealers, I don't particularly like Audi Uk much, but I have had really good service from Camberley Audi, however my experience is from somewhere else which I see no point in mentioning specifically.

Gazza57

[johnnyone]

i have drilled 2 holes per lamp, one top, one bottom, and the quite frankly ridiculous amount of condensation in my rear lamps is nearly gone. not an ideal solution but at least it is working. wonder if any other lamps on the rear of any make of car does the same thing as badly? i know the headlamp reflectors on the volvo trucks i work on used to go black through a similar problem. lamp was redesigned, but the older ones still do it!!

[gupsterg]

.

[Guest 2]

Having another set fitted in January for its second MOT ... I've lost count how many times I've had them replaced.

[JimC64]

Driller is killer on condensation... rear lights still... working for me... ;)

Link:- Driller Killer post (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?65817-A6-Rear-light-cluster-%28-07%29&p=728010#post728010) Link:- My photos (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?65817-A6-Rear-light-cluster-%28-07%29&p=733856#post733856) Link:- Next set of photos (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?65817-A6-Rear-light-cluster-%28-07%29&p=733875#post733875) Link:- The holes I did (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?65817-A6-Rear-light-cluster-%28-07%29&p=744019#post744019)

Hey Gup......well, as you know I've pretty much tried the lot with the condensation in the lights issue!

I've had them off around 4 or 5 times now, dried them off, re seated the seal, applied sealant etc etc and the problem remains.

At the weekend I decided with nothing to lose to try your route. Took the lights off and dried them all thoroughly ( 30 mins with a hairdryer ) and then proceeded to drill holes on the underside. I driled around 8 holes or so on each on and re fitted them onto the car.

You don't want to drill in to the reflcetor part, just enough to get the drill through and create an air flow.

Here's your pic edited below to show roughly where / how I did mine

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/1-8.jpg

As the car was recently detailed and the sun was out, it made a nice change to see the rear with clean dry lights, shining and the 2 tail pipes all shiny too......looking good if I say so myself....lol

I haven't washed the car again as yet, but had plenty of rain on Saturday evening and all day today.
As far as I can see the lights still seem clear!

I'm hoping this is a long term fix, but we'll see.
I'll wait for lots more rain and several washes and see if we are still clear and report back of course, for the benefit of all :beerchug:

[JimC64]

More rain today and also with the cold weather there's been a lot of condensation running from the roof down the channels etc...............normally I'd expect to see water droplets inside the lens.

I've cleared the moisture on the outside repeatedly during the day / night and the lens is still showing as clear......could this be fixed??

Hope so......

I'll report back in the days & weeks as stated

[Brycie]

Well done Jim, glad to hear it's positive news so far. Definitely seems mad to take a drill to your motor that you look after so well, but you can't argue with science & hopefully the airflow will sort the problem for good. Plus you'll never see the drill holes except when changing bulbs - which hopefully you won't have to do too often now that condensation won't collect in the cluster.

Bet it took some determination to do it, but hopefully it'll have paid off. I'll bite the bullet & do mine next week probably.

[gazza57]

Further update on the light cluster, got a phone call suddenly to say that they have agreed to replace them with LED lights and the programming all at no charge, I was quick to criticise them when I felt that they weren't taking the issue seriously.
The dealer has stepped up to the plate and it is being replaced soon.

So hats off to both Audi and the dealer

Gazza57:D

[JimC64]

Good for you Gaz.....nice one:approve:

[Brycie]

Well done Gazza, glad you got a fair outcome. Don't forget to put some pics up of your led light units.

Did you buy from new in 2007 & stick with the dealer for servicing etc?

[EssexGonzo]

Good outcome mate.

But....the pre-facelift LED clusters mist up too. :-(

[gupsterg]

.

[JimC64]

Hi guys, day 4 of my update on the rear lights.

As you know, I went down the route that Gupsterg first pioneered by drilling holes into the bottom of the rear lights. In my case I drilled approx 8 in each side on the underside and as close to the edge as was safe.

I haven't as yet washed the car, which will be a big tell sign as the lights usually always misted up, then condensed water would gather from there, so I'll report back afterwards on that.

However, when it would rain and the temperature would fall, the same scenario would be there........The lights would always mist up and start to fill up with condensed water on the inside of the lens. Since I completed the job on Saturday we've experienced freezing temps and its more or less rained everyday so I would expect to see the lights at least misted up......NOTHING......All clear to date! :approve:

Please see beofre and after pics below......

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/LHreverselightsshowingextremecondensation1.jpg

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/rearlightsdrilled.jpg


I'll update again over the days n weeks as the rainy season gets into full flow and the car is washed etc, but I'm really hopeful this time that this fix will work.

[gazza57]

Good for you Gaz.....nice one:approve:

Thanks Jim,
Nobody could be more surprised than me, I had all but given up hope but jim if you've had five sets replaced irrespective of whether you've drilled holes in them, this will show audi that despite what they claim, this is a problem and a big one too.
Often when they have a big problem across a wide range of units, getting them to admit there's a problem at all is the most difficult part.
Keep pestering them Jim, after all you've nothing to lose.

Good luck

Gazza57:Blush2:

[Brycie]

Gazza,

I was going to go into the dealer myself & ask about this. Are you the original owner with Audi service history?

The reason I ask is that I've bought 2nd hand & my car's been looked after by an indy ever since, so I figured I'd be laughed out of the showroom if I asked for a goodwill change to led units.

[gupsterg]

.

[Brycie]

Yeah I think I'll save the embarrassment & just get the drill to them. Maybe if I'd had FASH, I would have tried, but as I haven't, I'll just sort it myself. Thanks for your input though Gup, if they've said no to you with a FASH, then it gives me a clue that I have no chance.

[Jaggy74]

I have this problem, I have to take them off once in a while and let them dry on a radiator. put some PTFE tape on the foam seal and it makes it last a little longer.

If you leave it you will get an earth bond fault in the grid, which will cost about £220 at Audi to repair (a small spade end wire repair). trouble is, when the fault comes on, the computer switches all the back lights off! not good when it happens at night (crossing exmoor at 10pm the time when mine went). The Audi repar lasted about 3 months, in the end I soldered a new earth onto the plate grid and all good now....


Hope it helps, but replacng them wont make it go away, its a design fault

[JimC64]

I and others here have tried everything.

The drilling of holes to allow them to breathe seems to work...................you might consider it strange as it sounds.

[Brycie]

Or ventilate the cluster by drilling some holes in the housing (not visible from outside) and solve the problem permanently.

P.s, I'd query that amount of £200 by the way. I got quoted by Preston Audi £33 for new part & £50 fitting (each side obviously). I didn't take them up on this as it's easier to remove the cluster & file the eroded contact with a file & some contact cleaner for £2 a time. Generally lasts me a year after doing this.

However the drilling is the only permanent fix any of us has found so far.

[gazza57]

Gazza,

I was going to go into the dealer myself & ask about this. Are you the original owner with Audi service history?

The reason I ask is that I've bought 2nd hand & my car's been looked after by an indy ever since, so I figured I'd be laughed out of the showroom if I asked for a goodwill change to led units.

I did not have FASH, and I am the 2nd owner of my car all my servicing is done by an indy too, but I did rattle their cages big time, my main gripe is not with the dealer, after all they are a franchise and are constrained about what they can do, I e mailed them and copied it to their general manager and said that I had selected the car on their forecourt and identified this issue prior to purchase and had been assured it would be cured, it hasn't and as far as I'm concerned this is AUDI UK's problem not the dealer.

I further stated that I did not expect to be told by Audi UK that condensation is normal, it isn't and anyone with even the most basic engineering experience will tell you water + electricity at any voltage even 12 volts ultimately ends in failure.
I had actually walked away and told them that if Audi UK can haggle and prevaricate over £200 worth of rear lights, then how on earth could I have confidence in buying another Audi if I had a more serious problem such as a valve or a camshaft?

It has since transpired that the later lamps LED type I assume post facelift as I'm told prefacelift are now no longer available will just require recoding and they are looking into achieving this.

TBH all I want are lights that don't leak or sweat condensation, give me that and I'm satisfied, if it ultimately turns out LED lamps can't be fitted I really don't care as long as the ones on the car stay dry, who knows I may end up drilling them just like Jim.

Gazza57

[Brycie]

Thanks for the info Gazza, of course I overlooked one important factor - I didn't buy from Audi.

I've got a week off this week so the drill's coming out & I'm just gonna get it done.

[gazza57]

Don't worry Brycie

Buying from Audi hasn't made the slightest difference, the car went in yesterday to have the rear lights replaced, they had the car the entire day but were unable to code the new rears so that they would work properly, apparently they plugged them in and tried many different memory block settings but they did not work properly at all.

The rears were flashing too fast or sometimes even lights like the front fogs were flashing when they shouldn't and ultimately they have refitted my original set and put the codes back to where they were and everything is OK again. They have since stated that Audi UK were correct in their statement that recoding my vehicle to accept LED lights is not technically possible.

I have since decided that I am going to go down the route that Jim and several others have selected and drill holes in the lights, it may transpire later that someone out there does get the right codes and successfully fit them but it appears my dealer has tried and cannot so I have decided I've nothing to lose in drilling the lights, they certainly mist up now so I've lost nothing.

Gazza57

[gupsterg]

.

[gazza57]

Sadly no Gup

I too am a bit sceptical, I didn't even see the lights, makes me wonder......

I did however get someone in the Audi organisation to enter my vehicle chassis number and the EKTA database says the correct ones are 4F5 945 095M (Left ) / 4F5 945 096 M ( Right ) except they tell me that these are not available now and the only others are are 4F5 945 095P (Left ) / 4F5 945 096 P ( Right ) which of course they claim did not work.
Gazza57

[Guest 2]

AUDI A6 4F2 04-08 SALOON REAR LED TYPE TAIL LIGHT LAMP DRIVERS SIDE RIGHT O/S | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDI-A6-4F2-04-08-SALOON-REAR-LED-TYPE-TAIL-LIGHT-LAMP-DRIVERS-SIDE-RIGHT-O-S-/330690590375?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3 D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D3206920227388635671%26pid%3 D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D330690590375% 26)

im sure you'll find the ns somewhere on ebay too

[gupsterg]

.

[gazza57]

Thanks Gup,
I have passed this coding info plus the other bits on to them in an e mail, lets hope they step up to the plate.

Thanks again

Gazza57

[apole]

Quick Q,

My offside cluster steams up so now the rain has eased off I plan to remove, dry out and drill some holes. Question is does the cluster get swarf in it from drilling and is it easy to get out?

[Brycie]

Dead easy to get out, I did a guide recentlybthat Chris posted up for someone else in the last couple of weeks. I'll try to find it for you. I can't imagine a few plastic shavings will make any difference whatsoever. Once you get the cluster out, you'll be able to make your own call obviously though.

Edit: Here's the guide apole.

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18267&d=1350384315

[gupsterg]

.

[gazza57]

Thanks Gup,
I have passed this coding info plus the other bits on to them in an e mail, lets hope they step up to the plate.

Thanks again

Gazza57

Further to that, the silence has been deafening, they have had the e mail for over a day now, do you know I've a sneaking suspicion that they've not touched them at all.. perhaps i'm doing them an injustice.
it just seemed rather strange that from doing absolutely nothing they suddenly decided to do it all yet they appear to be unable to code their own products where outsiders have little difficulty. Doesn't inspire much confidence.

Gazza57

[Brycie]

Watching with interest Gazza, keep us posted. Don't let the blighters get away with what looks to be empty promises & blatant blagging, make them make good on their promise. Not EVERYBODY gets the benefit of the doubt with me as you can see, car dealers are exempt from my positive outlook lol.

Good luck chap.

[gupsterg]

.

[JimC64]

Hi all, well its been a little over a week now since I drilled my lights and all seems well so far.

We've had plenty of rain and its also getting fairly cold with some temps running at around or slightly below zero.

A few days ago I noticed the slightest of mists in the clear sections of the lights ( this is where the worst of the condensation was ).....It was a tiny amount and has since cleared again totally, probably due to the ventilation I guess.

To put this into perspective, the pics I show in post #4 of this thread show the problem probably at its worst and this would therefore be a 10
The very slight misting I experienced briefly a day or so ago could be classed as a 1

It seems that even if it does mist slightly it will clear as the air can circulate now.

Although its not a major deal I just thought you guys should know. It still the best fix out there as far as I can see and I'm glad I got around to doing it.


Any updates / changes etc I'll chime back in of course :beerchug:

[JimC64]

Well it was a nice dry, if a little cold day today and I had some time, the car was filthy.......I'm sure you can see whats coming here ;)


It was an ideal opportunity to both clean the car and test the lights a little further too......

I decided to give her a mini detail inside n out, alloys de tarred etc and part of this obviously included a thorough wash n dry.

Checking thoroughly afterwards my lights are as dry as can be......WELL CHUFFED:approve:

Just as an edit though and as previously stated - I have had the slightest of misting ( almost unnoticeable to be fair ) but the once or twice I've seen this in rainy weather and on a cold day its cleared right up very quickly.

Hopefully anyone else that does this or has any other fixes continues to post updates for the benefit of other users who are either experiencing this issue currently or will be looking for a fix sometime soon

Thanks :beerchug:

[apole]

Thanks Jim,

As you know I did mine yesterday, little fiddly putting it back but all went well and no shouting needed either. Drilled a few holes, dried it all out, made sure the rubber gasket between the lens housing and light plate was in properly.

On mine, I found putting the unit back with the black side plastic flap a challenge. First I put the unit back without it and found getting all the lugs on the plastic cover back on hard. Then I removed the unit again, fitted the plastic cover on the side, replace then clicked the top peg holder into the bodywork of the black cover. This worked best for me, all back in properly.

Too soon to say but recently had same issue on my mini and drilling holes fixed that a treat so I have high hopes.

[gupsterg]

.

[gazza57]

Watching with interest Gazza, keep us posted. Don't let the blighters get away with what looks to be empty promises & blatant blagging, make them make good on their promise. Not EVERYBODY gets the benefit of the doubt with me as you can see, car dealers are exempt from my positive outlook lol.

Good luck chap.

The plot has since taken more turns, after telling me they couldn't find the codes and therefore could not fit the lights they had promised so to do, the car was returned with the original lights still with condensation inside.
I have passed on the coding information that gup got for me and told them here are the codes which they can't seem to find in their documentation.
I had no response for more than a week and finally asked them to comment again by e mail.
They replied that the codes I gave them have been passed on to their master technician for further review, so we still wait.
Since then I decided to go to another dealer and ask them to quote for the supply and fit of both rear LEDS and front S6 bi xenons to see what sort of price they came back with.
I get a call a day later in which this dealer states that Audi UK do not allow franchised garages to modify cars from anything other than the specification that they left the factory, if this were the case why did it take them a full day to tell me, secondly I feel that most of these franchisees are just not interested in anything that is even remotely challenging technically.
People like gup and others have a far greater in depth knowledge of these products than any of the dealer garages, it appears to me that they just aren't interested in doing anything other than charging people who don't touch their own cars £16 a litre for oil and over £100 an hour labour for simple mundane servicing, that's where their money is!
I am now 100% convinced that they never touched my car and left it there for a day and fed me this **** and bull story about the codes, then when I returned with gup's codes they found themselves in a pickle, the codes they claimed weren't there, I supplied to them, so first I get the waiting game and finally no doubt they'll tell me that because the info comes from VCDS that it is "unauthorised" whatever that means.

It is clear even to the most optimistic that they've no intention of doing anything other than offering me the option of replacing lights which leak with another set which leak as well, a complete waste of both my time and theirs.
I really have had quite enough of it all to be honest, I got a quote on the phone from another retrofit outfit who have quoted me £695+VAT for the rears and £1395+VAT for the S6 Front BiXenons all coded and upgraded MMI software loaded. The whole job taking just two hours.

It is expensive £2500 but it would be nice to drive up to these dealers and show them that there are people unconnected with their organisation who know far far more about their own products than they do, it is further vindication of my decision to have all my servicing done by an independent, quite simply apart from being cheaper in terms of labour charges, they are more knowledgeable , more thorough and more focused on the paying customer , put quite simply it is a matter of TRUST, irrespective of the dealers shiny showrooms with your tea and biscuit welcome, they offer precious little else.
I've had it with dealers they aren't worth the bother.

Gazza57

[Brycie]

Can't say I blame you either. That whole fiasco is ridiculous and would leave a nasty taste in anyone's mouth.

[slabber]

Absolutely not my intention to hijack this thread, but I've found that the RHS black plastic trim on my saloon that should make a seal between the boot gutter and the rear light cluster leaks water under it (See my thread here (http://Absolutely not my intention to hijack this thread, but I've found that the RHS black plastic trim on my saloon that should make a seal between the boot gutter and the rear light cluster leaks water behind it.).) In my case it's causing the spare tyre well to fill with water, but might also be contributing to condensation in the rear light cluster (which I also have) as mentioned in a previous thread by JimC64. Just posting here as my thread subject doesn't make the link with the rear light cluster area.

[gupsterg]

.

[gazza57]

Thanks for the offer Gup

I'm not really sure what I'd like to do, its been a further 10 days since they were consulting their master tech, I 've a feeling that they are letting it die a natural death, to be perfectly blunt Gup, I'm tired of chasing them, the way in which they've dealt with this just merely confirms my decision not to have them service my cars but to use an independent is entirely justified.
The service they purport to give is just window dressing, behind the facade of the tea & biscuit welcome is a cold hard revenue driven organisation bent on maximum profits for minimal cost. BTW I shall make a donation to Help for Heroes in any case, many thanks to everyone in particular you Gup for your input on this

Kind Regards

Gazza57

[gupsterg]

.

[gazza57]

Hi Gup

Just an update for everyone concerning this rear light cluster fiasco. I have decided I've had enough, we have the dealer saying one thing , Audi UK saying another, Audi UK saying the dealer should have done this and the dealer saying Audi UK should have done that...I'm sick of the sight of them.
The dealer says Audi will not give them the codes, Audi UK say they don't have them. TBH I don't think either of them know whats what and I think theres no desire to get to the bottom of this and sort it out.
My indy is going to remove the rear lights and do a proper job of drilling them and also sealing them around the outside edge where moisture may penetrate.
I'm completely done with dealers and Audi UK they are a complete joke, I wonder if they know or even care the disrepute to which such actions bring them, I think not.
Gazza57

[JimC64]

Hey all, just an update after a few weeks into the drilling process!

I've had the car washed several times now, experienced some really really poor wet and extremely cold weather ( at -3 as I type )
All the above conditions are absolutely ideal for condensation in the rear light clusters, as I'm sure you all know.

Well, I can report that mine are absolutely fine and I'm well pleased.

Thanks to Gup for the original idea :beerchug:

[joker3001]

Hey all, just an update after a few weeks into the drilling process!

I've had the car washed several times now, experienced some really really poor wet and extremely cold weather ( at -3 as I type )
All the above conditions are absolutely ideal for condensation in the rear light clusters, as I'm sure you all know.

Well, I can report that mine are absolutely fine and I'm well pleased.

Thanks to Gup for the original idea :beerchug:

Hi,

Going to try this, this weekend. Can you let us know where the holes were drilled? Size of holes, number of holes and how deep?

Cheers
J

[Brycie]

Hi,

Going to try this, this weekend. Can you let us know where the holes were drilled? Size of holes, number of holes and how deep?

Cheers
J

I'm sure Gupsterg put some pictures of the drill holes earlier in the thread. Have you read through? I doubt personally yhat you need too many & too wide, just enough to get some air reaching the inside of the lens.

[JimC64]

Hi,

Going to try this, this weekend. Can you let us know where the holes were drilled? Size of holes, number of holes and how deep?

Cheers
J

Hey there, Brycie is spot on......please check Gup's post for an idea of what to do, although his is an Avant and the lights are obviously different, the same principle applies.

I drilled approx 10 holes the length of the bottom of the light lens just using around a 5mm drill.........as long as you drill though that should be enough.

Sorry I didn't take any pics as I thought Gup's post was clear enough.

Hope it helps

[joker3001]

So between the outer edge and the reflector.
On my car only the driver side seems affected, pretty badly as I ended up pouring the water out at the weekend :(
I did not dry it out and hence still malfunctioning .. no brake lights, indicator erratic, terrible design!

Thanks for the replies.

J

[Brycie]

I've not heard of anyone suffering on one side only. Does the other side not get any condensation at all? That would be a good opportunity if that is the case, to compare what's different from one side to the other to identify which part/seal is the culprit.

[joker3001]

I've not heard of anyone suffering on one side only. Does the other side not get any condensation at all? That would be a good opportunity if that is the case, to compare what's different from one side to the other to identify which part/seal is the culprit.

Only had the car a couple of weeks so not really checked. Only noticed on the driver side because of all the beeps going off when I start the car. Will take a closer look at the weekend.

J

[Brycie]

Oh right, it probably is condensated too. You know you'll need to file away the corroded black spots on the contact points in order to repair the current cluster? Both the contact points where the bulbs go in AND the contact points on the other side where the cluster plugs in.

[joker3001]

Oh right, it probably is condensated too. You know you'll need to file away the corroded black spots on the contact points in order to repair the current cluster? Both the contact points where the bulbs go in AND the contact points on the other side where the cluster plugs in.

I'll take a look into that. I took them out at the weekend and put it on a radiator because I thought it was an isolated incident. After drying put it back and it worked for about 10 mins. I then gave up and said next weekend. Obviously bigger job than I expected :(

1. Thorough Drying out of all parts
2. Sanding/Filing the contact points on the connector and where the bulbs sit.
3. Drilling of about 10 5mm holes at the base of the light between front and reflector.

Wife will be pleased :)

J

[Brycie]

Spot on. You may only have one 'black spot', say on the earth contact for instance? I don't know, I'm no auto electrician, but last time for me, it was only 1 spot that was throwing all the bulbs. Having said that, on another occasion I just did all the points too, to be thorough. Bit of contact cleaner too, but not sure if that helped.

Won't it be nice though when the car's not beeping that horrible beep that goes straight through you 5 or 6 times. Used to get right on my nerves.

[gupsterg]

.

[grobinson73]

I've just spent about 30 minutes reading this thread, is fantastic! I will be attempting drilling/sealing lights. I also however have the issue of starting the car up and all the lights on the rear drivers side dropping out one by one, and actually flickering if I get out and look at them.

I've read about the earth spade and also black spots on contacts. Again as mentioned by someone else I'm no auto electrician so what contacts do I need to fix/clean

again guys...great thread

Thanks

Graeme

[javsta]

Guys ive been reading this post and im beginning to wonder if I should have my front and rears swapped under warranty.

Im currently getting condensation in my front headlamp just along the LED strip...I thought this is normal I have had it on previous cars all of which were brand new too...just thought nothing of it.

[Brycie]

Last time I did mine, the problem was the contacts which the black plug goes into when reattaching to the car. Try scrubbing the bottom of the bulbs, the contact points that the bulbs go into & touch and finally, on the other side of the bulb holder (as described above) where yhe plug goes in -then you should get them all I'd have thought. A bit of contact cleaner & a file/scrubbing brush and you should solve it.

[Brycie]

Guys ive been reading this post and im beginning to wonder if I should have my front and rears swapped under warranty.

Im currently getting condensation in my front headlamp just along the LED strip...I thought this is normal I have had it on previous cars all of which were brand new too...just thought nothing of it.

With regard to the rears Javsta, you can get these swapped under warranty on pre-facelift models as it's a known fault on them, but I've not heard much about it on facelift models. As it's under warranty, I'd be asking for/demanding replacement & for the units to be re-sealed, worth a shot. If you get a new set & they also start to mist up, get the drill out before the moisture has a chance to corrode the contacts. Either that, or do as some others do & just keep getting replacements under warranty until it's about to expire & then drill holes. But as I say, I'm only guessing here that you'll have the same options as a pre-facelift owner.

The fronts, I can't help with but I'd definitely take it up with the Dealer and ask them to replace & fix the seals.

[gupsterg]

.

[JimC64]

My god.....the saga continues with mew members dropping in with more & more cars having the same issues!

Its almost unbelievable that a brand such as Audi would let these minor issues ( tail light lenses / chrome window surrounds going milky ) carry on and continue to produce cars with the same fault all the way down the line.

Surely the scenario should be the MKI has issues, the MKII is better, the MKIII better again all the way down to the MKV or beyond that is the best of the lot with issues resolved as the car stays in production?

For me, its the little issues like these that sour the taste of what has been an otherwise pretty good car ownership experience.

Javsta - If you're still under warrany my friend get in there and get them sorted / replaced ASAP and make note of age / mileage / dates etc as you may be back again at some point in the future. There's nothing that strikes fear into the service personnel like "detailed info" with dates / times / names etc.

Good luck and hth

[MFGF]

Its almost unbelievable that a brand such as Audi would let these minor issues ( tail light lenses / chrome window surrounds going milky ) carry on and continue to produce cars with the same fault all the way down the line.

Surely the scenario should be the MKI has issues, the MKII is better, the MKIII better again all the way down to the MKV or beyond that is the best of the lot with issues resolved as the car stays in production?

For me, its the little issues like these that sour the taste of what has been an otherwise pretty good car ownership experience.

To be fair to Audi, they did finally get around to resolving the issue when the C6 was facelifted. Admittedly, it took them a long time, though :) Of course, that is of no comfort to all you good folks with pre-facelift cars, as the rear lights are a totally different shape, so the facelift lights cannot be retrofitted without a new rear bumper and bootlid from the facelift model. Gup's "patented perforation plan" seems to be a good way to sort the issue - perhaps Audi should adopt it when cars are brought in to them with condensation issues in the rear lights?

Cheers!

MF.

[gupsterg]

.

[joker3001]

Hi all,

Just a quick question. Am I targeting the area marked with my drill (obviously from underneath). From the inside (last pic) there seems to be a join/block. I want to drill into that?

187761877718778

-J

[gupsterg]

.

[JimC64]

Hey there,
firstly Gup is bang on as always.

You don't want to drill in to the reflcetor part, just enough to get the drill through and create an air flow.

Here's your pic edited below to show roughly where / how I did mine

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/1-8.jpg

[joker3001]

Ok, job done, let see how we get along.

Holes are slightly visible from out side if you really really picky, I think I hit the reflector a couple of times, d'oh.

One thing I noticed is that the plastic trim bit on the side had a opening at the top which would let water in, it was flush on the other side. Any suggestions, silicon I guess.

18783


Asked before was my passenger not malfunctioning, I fear it is a matter of time, just looked now and it had a small amount of condensation inside :( Grrr ...

Thanks all

-J

[gupsterg]

.

[grobinson73]

Well my car went back to where I bought it from and they apparently applied contact cleaner to the rear lights and all is now working again at last!!

so now I can start looking at the drill and dry technique over the next couple of weeks....

the joys of driving without multiple error bleeps...

G

[gupsterg]

.

[kenmurray]

Moisture in rear light also causes this issue ,
this is more a safety issue than cosmetic issue,

2008 a6 2.0 tdi saloon bulb monitor intermittent warning , happens after 5 to 10 minutes of driving , single or multi bulb failure warning at r/h rear , brake light , tail light, indicator , new bulbs fitted , contacts cleaned , connection to rear light panel ok, only happens on o/s/r

More than likely condensation build up inside rear lens caused by heat generated on inside surface against outside cold surface , causing multiple bulb failure or breakdown of internal supply voltage to bulbs at bulb holder , will try drilling off inside of lens and moisture removal within next week , re clean contacts etc , repost ASAP

[Brycie]

Hi Ken, not sure how long you've owned your motor, but in my experience the condensation problem may only affect one cluster at a time, but eventually both sides will suffer the problem. May as well put air holes in both while you're at it anyway. It'll be a preventative measure on the near side cluster.

Just a thought.

Cheers,
Paul.

[JimC64]

Moisture in rear light also causes this issue ,
this is more a safety issue than cosmetic issue,
2008 a6 2.0 tdi saloon bulb monitor intermittent warning , happens after 5 to 10 minutes of driving , single or multi bulb failure warning at r/h rear , brake light , tail light, indicator , new bulbs fitted , contacts cleaned , connection to rear light panel ok, only happens on o/s/r

More than likely condensation build up inside rear lens caused by heat generated on inside surface against outside cold surface , causing multiple bulb failure or breakdown of internal supply voltage to bulbs at bulb holder , will try drilling off inside of lens and moisture removal within next week , re clean contacts etc , repost ASAP

Hey Ken,
how did you get on, any joy, any further forward?
I've read a few posts if memory serves of issues with bulb failure problems etc where people have checked and cleaned the pins, possibly even bent them slightly to ensure a better contact and also applied dielectric grease ( please double check this!! )

Presumably if you've managed to do this, dried out the lights and drilled the holes etc + refitted they are better?

Hope so & hope to hear

Cheers
Jim

[EssexGonzo]

Hi all,

Having had to call the RAC out a couple of years ago due to sudden cluster failure on a long journey and having watched him immediately clean the contacts, I've decided I'll do the drilling.

However, a basic ham-fisted question.....how do you stop the plastic screw/hex bolt that you undo from inside the boot dropping down into the bowels of the boot? I recall this being a significant challenge last time I looked.....

[gupsterg]

.

[EssexGonzo]

Simple and obvious. But still not simple and obvious enough for me.

Thanks Gup.

[JimC64]

Hi all,

Having had to call the RAC out a couple of years ago due to sudden cluster failure on a long journey and having watched him immediately clean the contacts, I've decided I'll do the drilling.

However, a basic ham-fisted question.....how do you stop the plastic screw/hex bolt that you undo from inside the boot dropping down into the bowels of the boot? I recall this being a significant challenge last time I looked.....



Blu-tack in socket...

Good question and a good call from Gup as usual ( not something I would have thought of either...lol )

For me, I found as you do, that unscrewing the plastic hex nut off there was an iminent danger of it falling down into the deep dark recesses of the boot somewhere that it may be lost for all time.....lol

I found that the boot interior card / carpet although stiff is also very flexible if it needs to be.
Rather, I found that the carpet could be pulled backwards enough to allow my hand to fully hold the nut as I unscrewed it using the screwdriver through the hole provided.

It sounds as if its difficult or you need to be a contortionist to use this method when in fact its very simple and easy to do. I've used this method several times now recently as I've had the lights on / off the car previously to get to where I am with them now.

Hope it helps.....

[Igloo]

I've got this on my new A6 C6 too....

I also have slight misting in the front light units.

I'm going to take some photo's, Doubt i'm going to do anything about it until a few months down the line. Doesn't majorly inconvience me and I have 4 years Audi warranty.

[Brycie]

I can see what you guys are worried about re: losing the nut down the gap, but as I use a socket set to remove & the nut gets enclosed in the end of the socket, it's always felt pretty safe to pull out. See wgat you're saying on the blutac front, but would that just mean the nut is pushed further out of the socket? Not sure.

[gupsterg]

.

[kenmurray]

Yes Jimc found another thread A6 bulb monitor , did the following ,
Rear light cluster male pin found with discoloured surface , cleaned up with nail file and applied contact cleanser , female side supplies negative earth to indicator , tail lights ect , through brown wire , it is a wire contact issue at back of the rear light cluster , this other thread has a permanent repair , it looks like a design issue as single contact wire (brown) supplies negative earth to indicator , parking light and other bulbs , so it's single contact is overheating , causing a breakdown of current , open circuit , aka bulb blown signal to bulb monitor , visual symptoms are faster indicator , as rear indicator stops working , dim or no side lights , ect

[halfbee]

I've had intermittent nsr bulb faults on 07 Avant for a while now and I finally think I've got to the bottom of it.
Firstly, I don't have any plug/pin corrosion issues but I did apply solder to the bulb holder pins just incase.

I'm too tight to replace the bulb holder- by my reasoning its just wires and plastic so I should be able to find and fix the fault rather than just buy a new one.

The issue I have found is the contact for the centre pin of the bulbs, its made in 2 bits and rather than making a solid welded joint the good people at Audi just cut a slot in the main 'harness' than then pushed the centre pin into it. It's a terrible engineering solution and is bound to corrode and increase its resistance.

my solution is to clean the area of crappy galvanising with a needle file and then apply a blob of solder to join the 2 halves, its a bit of a git to do but hey, I've saved myself 30 odd quid.

[JimC64]

Firstly, its a shame to see that so many of us have / had the same issues with the rear light clusters & condensation.

Secondly, its great to see so many owners checking into this thread, finding the answer and resolving the problem......Hope to see many more checking in and doing the same.

Dunno about you guys, but every time I see an A6 or similar with their lights full of water I want to stop them, pull them over and tell them about the fix.....lol
Although I guess most of them either have given up or don't care, but even if I can help just one more, I'll feel it was a good day.....saddo I know.

Just for the record, mine are still as clear as a bell with NO issues

[kerbdog]

Firstly, its a shame to see that so many of us have / had the same issues with the rear light clusters & condensation.

Secondly, its great to see so many owners checking into this thread, finding the answer and resolving the problem......Hope to see many more checking in and doing the same.

Dunno about you guys, but every time I see an A6 or similar with their lights full of water I want to stop them, pull them over and tell them about the fix.....lol
Although I guess most of them either have given up or don't care, but even if I can help just one more, I'll feel it was a good day.....saddo I know.

Just for the record, mine are still as clear as a bell with NO issues

This might be a silly question - but - what is the solution to removing the condensation build up?

If there is a solution, would be great if the first post in this thread could be updated to let folks know who stumble onto the thread :)

[apole]

Hi,

In a nutshell, removing the cluster and carefully drilling a number of small holes in the underside to allow ventilation. That way any dampness doesn't get trapped or allowed to build up. Simple, but it works. Had same issue on a BMW mini, same solution.

[JimC64]

This might be a silly question - but - what is the solution to removing the condensation build up?

If there is a solution, would be great if the first post in this thread could be updated to let folks know who stumble onto the thread :)

I see your point Kerbdog, but most members as far as I'm aware, myself included like to read through the posts to the end.....There could be several variations on the fix etc and other things people have tried.

It may just be me, but as I say I like to read through and get a better understanding of the problem and the solution.

Andy has kindly added the fix in the post above, hope it helps for you too

Cheers

[AlyM]

Well after seeing Jim's crystal clear lights the other day I had to oblige and do this also! :o
Also noticed that the passenger side one had a sticker build date of 2007 and the drivers side was late 2005! :confused:
So has definitely been changed probably because of the same issue!
Cheers Jim

Resident Curry Muncher

[JimC64]

Nice one Aly......

Your car looks great for age / mileage and the rear lights condensation was about the only thing letting the car down, so I'm sure it'll look
even better now :approve:

Didn't take you long to get that one sorted!

Between the removal, drying, drilling and refitting process, about a couple of hours I'm guessing?

Thanks for sharing :beerchug:

[AlyM]

Not even.. Washed the car first as it was dirty as! Dried it... Tyre gel, scrubbed my exhaust (pardon the pun) and rain x on all glass! Then tackled the lights... only an 1h 30mins! Including all of the above :thumbup:

Resident Curry Muncher

[Guest 2]

Another thing to note when my A6 goes in for its service in 700 miles :(

Thankfully they're still covered under warranty ;)

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz90/57_audi/iPhone%20Uploads/null_zpsa2f3e4b0.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz90/57_audi/iPhone%20Uploads/null_zpsbbc792e4.jpg

[Darius R]

Hi, I have the same problem on my Audi, which is 2006 and it has those rear light with LED for brake lights.. When I removed both lights, found that one clip on each light, located on the top of the light unit are broken. In my case, that's why water is getting inside the lamp. I have ElsaWin and it says that for those particular lights there's a common fault, which is caused by wrong chemical being used while washing a car. It states that chemicals gets into a plastic and that's why those plastic clips brakes and water gets into.. for the moment, the only solution I found, is to seal the unit, but then how am I going to change light bulbs :D

[Akash]

Or don't use car wash chemicals that can't eat through it :- )

Not had that issue myself - although my bulb holder did go on both sides, it was after 4 odd years and a lot of driving. I put it down to the condensation issue I used to have but since cleaning it out, replacing the bulb holders, it's been fine with no condensation nor bulb holders going out. I was my car weekly if not twice a week but I do it myself

[gazza57]

That just shows you how seriously Audi take (or rather don't) this issue.
there are 21 pages of people reporting leaking rear lights, all the dealers offer is more of the same.
I have a car in which the rear lights fill up with water,
Oh quite normal sir
Part of your water feature range for rear lights eh?
No sir it's just part of the normal temperature differences and will subside with time....yeah right.
had the car 2 years now, full of water on the forecourt, promised to fix it, shook hands on the deal, didn't fix it
All they offered was to replace a light that leaked with another light that leaked.
Will now not buy ANYTHING from dealers unless I can't get it anywhere else

Customer Service = non existent

Gazza57

[Igloo]

Warranty gaz?

Mine replaced them without fuss.... Same with a brand new clutch that was slipping....

[JimC64]

Igloo - The point is even if they do get replaced under warranty ( I had around 8 sets iirc ) they all still leak / have the same issue, so its only a
delaying tactic I'm afraid.

I've given up on this as have many others, removed them, dried them and drileld them and now have no issues, just crystal clear lights.
A total PITA I know but its been the only resolution unfortunately

[AlyM]

Well it's been almost a week of sun, cold, muggy, rain, and torrential rain! Basically typical Scottish elements... And I'm pleased to report I still have crystal clear lights! :D :cool:

Resident Curry Muncher

[gazza57]

Warranty gaz?

Mine replaced them without fuss.... Same with a brand new clutch that was slipping....

Yes,
They replaced them under warranty, but the fact is their answer to the problem was to replace one defectively designed rear light with an identical rear light equally ineffective at staying moisture free.
Didn't have any fuss,the usual spiel about no one else reporting issues of this type, I knew otherwise.
But the fact is they are wasting my time, the light leaks and fills up with water, I go in they replace them and after a couple of months the problem returns.
I don't need a replacement light that also leaks, I need a solution to a design problem, that's their job is it not?
I have washed my hands of them, they promised to deal with it on the sales forecourt, I shook hands with the salesman on it, proves their handshakes are like their rear light clusters, not up to the job.
Fact is this is only a minor problem, but they have shown themselves to be completely unable to deal with the issue other than to replace one defective light with another.

God knows where we would be had I had a more major problem like a valve or camshaft problem.

I am going to drill them out as Jim C64 has done, I asked them to do that, they refused point blank, they said it wouldn't be an approved repair, what in god's name is an approved repair, it's either repaired or it isn't, who approves it? what on earth do they know anyway? not very much it would appear.
I added it may not be an approved repair but by god it would be an effective one, but no they prefer just to give me another faulty light cluster and walk away.

The delicious irony here is that they have always cited my use of an independent as some sort of device that undermines the residual value of the car, my experience always has been the opposite, based on my own experiences I consider an independent service history as far better credentials of the true nature in which the car has been looked after.
I base my opinions on my own experiences and I reserve the right to choose who looks after my vehicle.


Gazza57

[AlyM]

Gazza I'd be inclined to get new light clusters from Audi and then drill the new ones! Will save you drying them out etc...

Resident Curry Muncher

[JimC64]

.

I am going to drill them out as Jim C64 has done,
Gazza57



Hey Gaz, the drilled technique as originated by Gup has now been completed by more than a few members here and all have reported a huge difference.

AlyM who I met with a week or so ago had the same condensation issue and has since drilled them out and now has clear lights that don't leak.

Please, do yourself a favour mate and if they fit new lights, take them out as soon as you get home and get them drilled.....You will save yourself so much hassle / grief and heartache......really sounds like your blood pressure's up on this too, not good.
Do it and forget about it and get your blood pressure down.....lol

All my best :beerchug:

[MarkTM]

My car's had perfectly clear/dry lights from purchase last August...am assuming previous owner has modded...dunno if I can check without removal...but if it's not broke...:confused:

[gazza57]

It's OK Jim C64

I'm not really wound up about it, I have accepted that firstly, the dealers will promise plenty but deliver only rhetoric.
I bought a car, an Audi, synonymous with quality you would think.....any car you buy there should be a reasonable expectation that the rear light cluster on the car will be capable of preventing the ingress of moisture be it condensation or otherwise, I don't believe that is an unreasonable expectation?
Secondly, I don't want to be fobbed off with stories of this condensation being normal and dissipating with time, on both counts that is not the case.
It is neither normal nor does it dissipate with time.
I have had a 2008 Audi A6 which had moisture in the rear lights on the forecourt, prior to my purchasing it, they promised to deal with it, they broke that promise.
Two years on and two sets of lights later, it is still there ever present in the clusters, but put candidly this is unacceptable.
Nobody at Audi has any interest in dealing with it, I have now got my independent garage to remove the clusters, dry them out, drill the holes and refit them as soon as we can dry them out.
The supreme irony here is that I am unable to get the job done under warranty, it would appear the dealer is much more efficient at telling me that this unapproved repair will invalidate the parts warranty, but seemingly only able to offer me a set of lights with exactly the same problem.
If they expended as much gusto on solving the rear light problem than telling me some bovine excrement about it being normal or reminding me that the warranty (which incidentally only replaces a defective rear light with another deflective rear light) we would have had this problem solved months ago.

Gazza57

[Guest 2]

To see what all the hype is about I decided, this evening, to remove my clusters and see the build date using the guide Paul provided me for the Owners Thread (cough cough).

I wasn't going to do any drilling as they're still under warranty but removed the bulb holder and used the Mrs' hairdryer to make them a bit more presentable looking.

The A6 is due a major service in 400 miles (:() and I may push for a set of nifty Highline LED Clusters ;)

The norm:

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz90/57_audi/iPhone%20Uploads/null_zpsa2f3e4b0.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz90/57_audi/iPhone%20Uploads/null_zpsbbc792e4.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz90/57_audi/A6/IMG_3978_zpsb048a548.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz90/57_audi/A6/IMG_3973_zps9c9e21f1.jpg

March 2011 for both of them, had them replaced so many times I can't remember when these were fitted :o

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz90/57_audi/A6/cd744e29-fa92-436f-98c7-8ef1dbece33c_zpse01e8745.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz90/57_audi/A6/33445ce4-36b2-43bf-bb7d-99bb1c6e2f1a_zpsb76e9956.jpg

[Carboncobra]

Hey guess what! I have condensation in both my rear lenses too! Just been scanning through this post. Guess I'll have to get the drill out!

[Akash]

I think I'm hitting 3 months now? No sign of any moisture inside
No drilling, just took them out, dried them properly, cleaned the seals, and refitted..tightly

Oh, both with new bulb holders.
It was the bulb holder seals in my case that was causing it from what I can gather - reason is that I changed them a month apart and within that month, you could tell that the old one that had been dried out steamed up again, the new one didnt. When I dried out the one that steamed up again and stuck the new holder in, it stayed dry...to this date.

[AlyM]

Whats peoples thoughts on these?

Back Rear Tail Lights for Audi A6 (saloon, 04-08), in red-clear, with LED pair | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Back-Rear-Tail-Lights-for-Audi-A6-saloon-04-08-in-red-clear-with-LED-pair-/280936889810?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Car+Make%3AAudi|Model%3AA6&hash=item416924bdd2)

[Guest 2]

I'd have to see the layout of the LEDs before I make judgement on that.

But I do like the OEM Highline clusters :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AlyM]

2059720598

Unsure myself!

[Brycie]

I've seen a pair of these on a prefacelift in Blackburn before & I wasn't that taken with them tbh. Where they meet the bootlid, it looks like they should continue onto the boot, but they just finish & imo they don't look quite right because of it.

[gupsterg]

How about these ones ....

In the daylight Link:- My Audi A6 rear LED lights - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biiQCzNYfjE)

In the nightlight Link:- my Audi A6 tail led light.wmv - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM_o1EOJlF4)

The VWAF thread Link:- LED rear light upgrade. (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?141159-LED-rear-light-upgrade)

[JimC64]

Gazza - Do you now have dry clear lights?

Presumably this has now been done?

[EssexGonzo]

I'd have to see the layout of the LEDs before I make judgement on that.

But I do like the OEM Highline clusters :)


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Yep, they look good. But don't get too carried away with the notion that they won't mist........I know from experience that they will!! :zx11:

However, 2 or 3 months since drilling, and I've not seen the condensation return.

[Guest 2]

My car is going into Audi for its 82k service on the 28th so will enquire about the LED ones when I go in as I still have a valid Audi warranty.

I may end up drilling them if they do supply the LED ones though.

[gupsterg]

Yep, they look good. But don't get too carried away with the notion that they won't mist........I know from experience that they will!! :zx11:

However, 2 or 3 months since drilling, and I've not seen the condensation return.

So which units you have? OEM/aftermarket? STD Bulb/LED?

[JimC64]

So which units you have? OEM/aftermarket? STD Bulb/LED?

Hey Gonzo, can you confirm please?

[royclark]

Hey Gonzo, can you confirm please?

He's gone to bed, 2-50am.
Are you on the night shift Jim ?

[JimC64]

He's gone to bed, 2-50am.
Are you on the night shift Jim ?

Lol.....no night shift Roy, Night Owl

[EssexGonzo]

Hey Gonzo, can you confirm please?

Definitely in bed.... :D

Mine are the saloon OEM LED clusters that came with the factory xenon option. LED brake lights built into the lens cluster, 3 x P5W each side for tails, bog standard indicator, fog and reverse lamps. Albeit only one of the latter on the nearside. :mad:

They steam up in the same way as the standards and I've had the RAC out when a whole cluster failed on the M-way and also recently a new bulb holder on one side.

However, what has really banished the moisture has been DRILLING! It's lashing down here today so I'll be keen to see what they look like when I get home tonight. :D

[JimC64]

However, what has really banished the moisture has been DRILLING! It's lashing down here today so I'll be keen to see what they look like when I get home tonight. :D


Nice one Gonzo, thanks for sharing & look forward to confirmation all is well.

If it helps any, when its been raining very hard & heavy for a long time I do still sometimes get a very light hazing in the upper corners, but this subsides very quickly to leave clear moisture free lights.

[MarkTM]

Definitely in bed.... :D 3 x P5W each side for tails

Never opened my rears since they are moisture free...do you mean 3 x P21 5w as would like to keep some spares?

[Akash]

While I managed to fix my clusters by a simply dry and replace bulb holders (which come with fresh seals), I noticed yesterday that my side markers are steaming up!
Strange as if I remember correctly, the "hole" it plugs into is quite big so it has plenty of air to clear it out

I'll have to grab them out and dry them I think before checking if it is an issue or not

[gupsterg]

Mine are the saloon OEM LED clusters that came with the factory xenon option. LED brake lights built into the lens cluster, 3 x P5W each side for tails, bog standard indicator, fog and reverse lamps. Albeit only one of the latter on the nearside. :mad:

They steam up in the same way as the standards and I've had the RAC out when a whole cluster failed on the M-way and also recently a new bulb holder on one side.

However, what has really banished the moisture has been DRILLING! It's lashing down here today so I'll be keen to see what they look like when I get home tonight. :D

So all the pre facelift tail lights may that be saloon/avant, LED or not, have an issue :( ...

Mine are still working with no faults, no repeat work, no removal and IIRC that's over 10 mths ago :) ... I tried other methods but only drilling was the solution :) ...

[ruggedscot]

Lights out drilled the holes and then put in oven at a low temp for twenty mins - brought out let cool and then refitted.

No more condensation lighs have remained clear - noted that the drivers side one needs replaced so on look for new one as it has a crack - was before playing with it !

Can recommend the drilling out to solve your condensation issues.

[Guest 2]

Lights out drilled the holes and then put in oven at a low temp for twenty mins

I could imagine my Mrs' face if I done that!

[JimC64]

Lights out drilled the holes and then put in oven at a low temp for twenty mins - brought out let cool and then refitted.

No more condensation lighs have remained clear - noted that the drivers side one needs replaced so on look for new one as it has a crack - was before playing with it !

Can recommend the drilling out to solve your condensation issues.


I found that the hairdryer did just as good a job to be honest, but whatever works

Driller is Killer though

[techfreak]

I did the driller killer although i kept mine raw (no oven roasting for me) and the condensation went after a day or so and has never returned.

All good.

Maybe Audi will read this and just have them made with air flow holes.

[JimC64]

I did the driller killer although i kept mine raw (no oven roasting for me) and the condensation went after a day or so and has never returned.

All good.

Maybe Audi will read this and just have them made with air flow holes.

Lol....Nice thought but I wouldn't bank on it

[A6-MO]

Hi all,

I have an 08 Le Mans and the reverse cluster has condensation, does that mean it would pass for warranty change? is there a procedure to this or just call Audi?

[Guest 2]

Is your car still under warranty?


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[JimC64]

Unless you have an extended warranty, then no I'm afraid, but you could always ask the question anyway?

However, its not the end of the world, simply remove them, dry them out, then drill holes in the undersaide as directed and re fit......Job done!

[A6-MO]

Nice one. I no longer have Audi warranty, but I have AA warranty .. guess that they wont do it...l it wasn't bothering me really it was more of a case if it can be sorted then let them do it.

I thought it could have been like my previous audi where the warranty had run out and it was over by I think 2-3 years but they still replaced the plenum chamber fault and the whole brake master cylinder as water seeped into it.

[A6-MO]

Thanks Chris.. i owe you a picture from the other day.. I thought my picture came up next to my name?


Is your car still under warranty?


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[Guest 2]

It's there on your profile, just need it set as your avatar ;)

Click - VW AUDI Forum - VWAF (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/profile.php?do=editavatar)

[JimC64]

A6 Chris - I see you got your new lights the other Day Chris, they look great too.

I know you're still under warranty, so as stated won't be drilling them for obvious reasons.............perhaps though you will come back here and advise how that turns out?

If they start to suffer with condensation issues yet again or remain clear, if you run out of warranty will you try going down that route etc etc??

Hope to hear as it will help others I'm sure.

[techfreak]

I think just changing the lights under warranty is only going to result in the same problem again, no?

Save time and hassle just drill the holes.
I didn't even dry them out. They dried themselves after. Takes literally all of 5-10 mins.

[JimC64]

I understand your point of view Techfreak and probably agree...........If it was me I'd just drill them and have clear usable lights as they were intended.

Swapping them out for a "new set" thats going to go excatly the same way is nuts, although to be fair....I had around 8 sets under warranty / goodwill iirc and didn't drill those.
In all honesty I don't think the process was around then, so I may have, we'll never know I guess.

The only thing I really regret is driving around in such a lovely car for 3-4 years with water logged light clusters really pulling down the overall look..........Just wish I'd known about it earlier :approve:

[techfreak]

Yes I wish I knew too. Ridiculous that a company like Audi fail on things like this.

Not as bad as failing dash pods from the ttforum though!

This definitely needs to go in the buyers guide.

[JimC64]

This definitely needs to go in the buyers guide.

Good call there Techfreak.........I haven't checked and just assumed that it was done?

I'm guessing that Chris has already added it.........he's pretty good that way usually.

[MarkTM]

If my car was still in warranty I'd not drill them....but if it was a substantial drive I'd certainly have Audi paying for the fuel I used.

[Guest 2]

Not drilling them yet for obvious reasons but I will keep an eye on them. They're both dated 11.04.13 so maybe, just maybe they've changed the design?

This is due to be in the buyers guide, still need a couple more sets of pictures then I can bring everything together, just a shame as I've been asking for well over a year now and with 5000 views on the thread I thought I would've had everything gathered up within a couple of days .. ho hum suppose things take time!

I think I've had 5 or 6 new sets now, this latest set being the Highline LED yokes.

Distance isn't a problem for me as I work in Belfast and Audi is only 10mins away from work so no real hassle.

[Ronnie W]

I was drying my one out using a hot air gun and managed to melt a bit of the lens so I bought a replacement off EBay for 42 quid that was a month ago so far no sign of condensation and this is with washing the car at least twice a week but I still get the centre bulb stopping working the car beeps the warning switching off the ignition and re starting clears the fault and the bulb works this happens about every third day as I said there is no sign of any condensation and when I fitted the new lights I cleaned up the contacts put in the silica bags and filled the contact gaps with petroleum jelly so what else could be causing the problem?