TSi 1.4s122bhp DSG

[Bassajay]

Contemplating a Golf SE 1.4 TSi DSG and would like to hear any owners opinions regarding this please.

[CharlesCourtney]

Contemplating a Golf SE 1.4 TSi DSG and would like to hear any owners opinions regarding this please.

I have a Golf Plus SE 1.4 (122) TSi DSG and love it, one of the best and enjoyable engine and gearbox combinations I have driven (possible beaten by a BMW 328 I drove some years ago but I did not have to pay for the fuel on that.)

I went for it without a test drive as I could not find anyone with one and waited 8 months for it worrying I may have made a mistake, but once it arrived, it was a real struggle to run it in.

[Bassajay]

I have a Golf Plus SE 1.4 (122) TSi DSG and love it, one of the best and enjoyable engine and gearbox combinations I have driven (possible beaten by a BMW 328 I drove some years ago but I did not have to pay for the fuel on that.)

I went for it without a test drive as I could not find anyone with one and waited 8 months for it worrying I may have made a mistake, but once it arrived, it was a real struggle to run it in.

Thanks for the reply, I was beginning to think there were no enthusiastic owners of it on this forum!
Since my original posting I have test driven the Mk 6 Golf SE 1.4 (122ps) TSI DSG and found it quite amazing. You never would have believed that 'only' a 1.4 lurked beneath the bonnet, it felt more like a normally aspirated 1.8 or even 2.0 ltr. As the figures suggest, it had diesel like torque, was extremely smooth and refined with no suggestion of any turbo lag. Its low emmisions and great fuel consumption figures adding to its all round strengths - and that 7 speed DSG is a real gem. My only dilemma now is whether to go for the Golf or the roomier, better value and equipped new Skoda Octavia which is now available with this set up ? Good choice either way.

[WeegieBob]

My only dilemma now is whether to go for the Golf or the roomier, better value and equipped new Skoda Octavia which is now available with this set up ? Good choice either way.

Now that's a real between a rock and a hard place!

Only one man's opinion here, however I found the DSG option far too expensive, even though I would have much preferred it, opting for the standard 6-speed manual instead. So, if there's a less expensive DSG type box option on the Skoda then that might swing it for me if I was in your position.

WeegieBob. ;)

[Bassajay]

Now that's a real between a rock and a hard place!

Only one man's opinion here, however I found the DSG option far too expensive, even though I would have much preferred it, opting for the standard 6-speed manual instead. So, if there's a less expensive DSG type box option on the Skoda then that might swing it for me if I was in your position.

WeegieBob. ;)

The Skoda petrol DSGs are all 7 speed, the oil burners having the older 'wet' 6 speeder. Had a look at the new facelifted Octavia and thought it a very nice car indeed. Trouble is the Octavia 1.4 TSi 122ps DSG is so new, don't think there are any available to try at the moment, the manual version having only just made an appearance.
For the record, the 1.8 TSi 160ps Octavia utilises a turbocharger only as with the 1.4TSi. The 1.4 TSi 160ps Golf of course utilises both turbocharger and supercharger. One cause of concern with both of those more powerful engines is that the 7 speed DSG has a 160 ps limit !

Golf or Octavia? - tricky one that.

[slo007]

I was also contemplating the Golf vs the Octavia. I sat inside an Octavia and it felt huge compared to the Golf. I also wasn't impressed with the fit of the cloth on the doors. It felt very poor (it was thin and moved easily). Finally, I noticed every Octavia on the road in Aberdeen was a taxi, and I didn't want to be confused for driving one...

I think the Golf will be more fun to drive (and easy to park). The dealer didn't have a Petrol for me to demo, so I test drove the Diesel and it felt great - strong, smooth, and extremely quiet. If it weren't for the higher fuel costs, I'd have bought one.

[Bassajay]

I was also contemplating the Golf vs the Octavia. I sat inside an Octavia and it felt huge compared to the Golf. I also wasn't impressed with the fit of the cloth on the doors. It felt very poor (it was thin and moved easily). Finally, I noticed every Octavia on the road in Aberdeen was a taxi, and I didn't want to be confused for driving one...

I think the Golf will be more fun to drive (and easy to park). The dealer didn't have a Petrol for me to demo, so I test drove the Diesel and it felt great - strong, smooth, and extremely quiet. If it weren't for the higher fuel costs, I'd have bought one.

Was it the latest facelifted Octavia? In my opinion that is a step up from the previous model and felt at least equal to the Golf's quality. I found, as with the Golf, the trim level makes quite a difference. The S level Golf feeling fairly low rent when compared to the SE or GT. Same with the Octavia, the S & SE again feel fairly low rent when compared to the Elegance or L & K models.
The Octavia does indeed look & feel a fair bit larger than the Golf although they share the same floorpan. You do see several Octavias used as taxis and also by the police but I am not convinced that is such a bad thing. From a taxi point of view, the even larger Superb would better suit in that role and with the older model they are sometimes very difficult to tell apart, especially in a passing glance.
The Golf is more expensive than the Octy but has a better residual value whereas the Octavia is cheaper in the first place but better equipped.
Not an easy choice, both good buys within their own rights.

[Rhigour]

I have found the DSG box needs a bit of running in . From new mine was a bit of an animal at low speeds. With 7 speeds, in "D" 1st does nothing more than move it a few mm before it hops into 2nd and then up through the entire set to hit 7th at about 38mph. The engine seems to like doing everything at about 1200 rpm . (Well it is that flexible that it can)When in a traffic crawl it can sometimes hunt between 1st and 2nd and I tend to slip the box into "S" mode just to negate this. However over the last two months since I have had it everything has got a lot smoother and I think we are going to get on well together. (1.4,122ps engine)

[Bassajay]

I have found the DSG box needs a bit of running in . From new mine was a bit of an animal at low speeds. With 7 speeds, in "D" 1st does nothing more than move it a few mm before it hops into 2nd and then up through the entire set to hit 7th at about 38mph. The engine seems to like doing everything at about 1200 rpm . (Well it is that flexible that it can)When in a traffic crawl it can sometimes hunt between 1st and 2nd and I tend to slip the box into "S" mode just to negate this. However over the last two months since I have had it everything has got a lot smoother and I think we are going to get on well together. (1.4,122ps engine)

That's strange, when I test drove the 7 speed DSG version, one of the points I especially looked out for was gearbox indecisions between 1st & 2nd and I must say I found none. The car I tried was new with only delivery miles on the clock. Most other semi autos I have tried, albeit ones with single electronic clutches, definitely had this unpleasant trait. It was one of the reasons I was so impressed with the DSG especially in its 7 speed form.

[Rhigour]

Perhaps it`s just a peculiarity of my one. You need a very light foot on the pedal, it did it to me today, a tad heavy on the right foot and it is off like a rat up a drainpipe ( or the bloke in fronts chuff.)
One peculiarity of this box, or mine at least is that it will accelerate from a stop uphill on idle if you will let it. It has this anti roll back feature and if you stop on a hill junction, take your foot off the brake and without touching the accelerator wait it will move foreword uphill and even change up. Weird if you dont expect it.

[JoseSpring]

Are you sure that's right? I'd be wanting to get that looked at!

[Bassajay]

Perhaps it`s just a peculiarity of my one. You need a very light foot on the pedal, it did it to me today, a tad heavy on the right foot and it is off like a rat up a drainpipe ( or the bloke in fronts chuff.)
One peculiarity of this box, or mine at least is that it will accelerate from a stop uphill on idle if you will let it. It has this anti roll back feature and if you stop on a hill junction, take your foot off the brake and without touching the accelerator wait it will move foreword uphill and even change up. Weird if you dont expect it.

I never had chance to really check out the hill start function but does it only activate according to gradient via sensors - that is, on a gentle slope it may not actually kick in? Having driven/owned other semi autos, Toyota & Honda to name two, they all required some driving adaption in order to make smooth progress in auto mode - they were fine in sequential mode. The 7 speed DSG I found very well mannered in both modes and in auto it behaved more like a full torque converted auto.
From hearing your experience, perhaps they vary somewhat from car to car unless there has been a potential software update already?

[Rhigour]

Reading the handbook the hill hold will only function for 2 seconds after releasing the handbrake if you use it and the gap in the traffic you are aiming for is more than 2 sec. coming, it will disengage and the car roll back . The handbook advises caution in using it.

Also reading the handbook; Has anyone tried out the DSG Launch Control Programme ? Page 146.

1) Switch off ESP.

2) Press brake with left foot.

3) Move selector into S or Tiptronic

4) Rev to 3,200rpm.

5) Take foot off brake .

6) source change of underwear.

Knowing the torque these engines pump out I would like confirmation that someone else has tried it and survived before I do it at the Hanger Lane Gyratory

[mr pastry]

I am following this thread with interest as I am in the market for an Auto and the DSG was a front runner .
Its quite interesting with the difference in Petrol and diesel prices I was reluctant to change from a diesel because I just love the mid range torque you get with diesels this sounds a very good compromise.

Regarding the Toyota auto if it was the MMT you drove they are horrendous to drive and have had numerous complaints

[Rhigour]

If it is mid range torque you want this engine has got it in spades . The turbocharger is permanently engaged :confused:. Dont know if this means it is not driven by the exhaust gas. But being so there is absolutely no lag it`s instant ooomph.

[Bassajay]

I am following this thread with interest as I am in the market for an Auto and the DSG was a front runner .
Its quite interesting with the difference in Petrol and diesel prices I was reluctant to change from a diesel because I just love the mid range torque you get with diesels this sounds a very good compromise.

Regarding the Toyota auto if it was the MMT you drove they are horrendous to drive and have had numerous complaints

Yes it was and I quite agree, plus Honda's i-Shift is also in that category. The DSG, at least in 7 speed form, is in a different league and far superior when compared.
No contest!

[bilen123]

Strange, I was unware that the DSG was a semi- auto. My wife needs hill starts (alwaysd has which is why we opt for auto). See my neew thread for DSG I opened today
Basically she has 2s to move off a hill from brake to accel before the car rols down..ok if noone is behind OR in front as if you are not too careful with the throttle it will shoot off and potentially hit somebody in front

[Rhigour]

The DSG is a pre selector box with automatic gear selection and clutch operation. In fact it is two gear boxes, one does all the even gear selections one does the odd gears and the clutch switches between them . I agree it does not act as a normal torque converter box ( see my reply to your post in the other thread) . Hill starts are a problem . The bottom gear has a clutch disengagement that is ccoupled to the footbrake somehow. One thing that might help is to do a small test on the car ,

On a quiet road cruise to a stop and then hold the car on the handbrake only . The brake will need a big pull and you can still feel the car pulling against the brake and the engine will be doing about 1200 rpm. Now put your foot on the footbrake, 2sec`s and the engine speed will drop to about 800 rpm and the creep will stop. (the clutch has disengaged). Take your foot off the brake and without touching the accelerator the revs will rise to 1200 and car will start tugging again (clutch has engaged first gear ). If you now take the handbrake off the car will move forward even uphill. This is best way to do hillstarts, wait with the footbrake and handbrake on , just before you want to move off say 2secs lift foot off brake the handbrake will stop rollback, when drive comes in you will feel it and can release handbrake.

[Bassajay]

The DSG is a automated manual (aka semi automatic) and not a full torque converted auto. As such it behaves, at standstill on an upward facing incline, exactly the same as a manual transmission would - ie. it will roll backwards unless you apply the foot/hand brake. The difference is that when you are ready to pull away, upon releasing the brake the hill start assist will hold the car for up to 2 seconds until the accelerator is depressed. That is the hill start assist's purpose, purely to assist - not as a permanent hold awaiting acceleration. All it really requires is to drive it as a manual when on hill starts. There are even several DSG's (6 speed) that come without any hill start assist so it is not even vital to have - it is just there to assist, especially folk only used to full autos. Regular manual transmission drivers would never have a problem with DSG hill starts.
The DSG is a semi automatic automated manual, it will not act the same as a full torque converted automatic. The real advantages over the latter are with enhanced performance, better mpg and lower emissions.

If you are used to a full automatic you must adapt your driving style by treating the DSG as a manual when it comes to hill starts.

[bilen123]

Yes thanks, understand that now - ok for me but not the wife. The whole purpose of buying an auto is to drive as an auto - no thinking required just drive!.
We made a mistake thinking the DSG was a normal auto and VW do not go out of their way to stipulate that it is quite different from their conventional auto. We thought DSG was a new fancy name but I guess you get nothing for nothing the better performance and more importantly the fuel consumption is the trade off.
We may go back to a conventional auto

What about older folk like my mum? she would be lost without the proper hill start capability - after all isn't that why after all people buy autos?

[CharlesCourtney]

Yes thanks, understand that now - ok for me but not the wife. The whole purpose of buying an auto is to drive as an auto - no thinking required just drive!.
We made a mistake thinking the DSG was a normal auto and VW do not go out of their way to stipulate that it is quite different from their conventional auto. We thought DSG was a new fancy name but I guess you get nothing for nothing the better performance and more importantly the fuel consumption is the trade off.
We may go back to a conventional auto

What about older folk like my mum? she would be lost without the proper hill start capability - after all isn't that why after all people buy autos?

The advantages far far far outway the small change in driving that is needed on hill starts - there are a number of ways to help that have been suggested on this and other threads. I am sure that after about 1000 miles you will find it second nature.

Hill starts have never botherd me and has never been a factor in buying a Auto for me or anyone I know - most say it is down to "clutch pumping" or the lack of it.

Given the drive (no pun intended) towards better fuel efficiency and emissions I would not be at all surprised to see most traditional auto boxes being replaced by DSG types in the future - my Golf Plus produces 1g per km CO2 more than my wife's 1.4 206 manual and has better fuel efficiency ! - go figure !

[Rhigour]

What about older folk like my mum? she would be lost without the proper hill start capability - after all isn't that why after all people buy autos?

No one is going to ask how old your Mum is, no gentleman would do that but I can assure you that I am as old as the hills and although I found the DSG a bit of a problem at first I have now got the hang of it and enjoy the way the car goes. The DSG box does seem to be smoother after 3-4K of use, needs running in.
Ps, the reason some people buy the DSG is because it has better fuel consumption and lower emissions than the manual. the reason others buy it is that it will accelerate the nickers off the manual (don`t tell Mum this)

[The Fingers]

I have read this thread with interest.

I have been living with a 6 speed DSG (passat) for 18months now and i love it.

It does sound as though the set up in the passat is better, mine has an electronic hand brake and auto hold, basically with auto hold on i come to a stop on the foot brake let off the brake and auto hold kicks in and holds the car perminantly until you hit the gas pedal (or take off seat belt then it switches hand brake on)

i use this on some quite steep hills (station road, greenfield, Oldham - if you know it you know its quite steep) come to a stop on foot brake and auto hold works a treat, if you put your foot back on the brake pedal with auto hold on you can feel its different as if auto hold is applying the brake. small squeeze on accelerator and away we go - never rolls back - EVER.

Although with mine being an oil burner the creep may be better mine will creep up hills with no gas pedall.

Are your golfs getting 'auto hold button' or are they relying on an auto 2 second system - i can see them changing this soon.

I am smitten with DSG - i dont think i would have another manual now.

[bilen123]

Agree, we were never after a manual in the first place. Looks the the passat works the way we want it to ....but you have an electronic handbrake and 6 speed oil DSG

We have a normal handbrake on the golf with a 7 speed dry clutch. It has hill-start on by default and works on a 2s delay.

The dealer did tell me about the electronic H/B on the passat and I did ask if we can get such a h/B - answer NO! I am hoping they can do something like a software upgrade to at least change the delay in the future - right now they can do nothing.

[The Fingers]

I have notice that dealer will just say no because they cant be bothered to ask the question themselves. there must be a way of getting the same auto hold as on the pasty in the newer golfs - COMPUTER SAYS NO - COUGH

MK5 golfs with DSG could have auto hold - so why cant MK6's

I actually think that the auto hold on the passat has nothing at all to do with the auto hand brake. It holds on the front brakes, its hard to describe be here goes.

Stop on brake pedal and then let off, if you push the brake pedal again with auto hold working there is resistance in the pedal as if it is applied already, turn auto hold off and the brake pedal loses this resistance. It may be linked to the ABS system or the ESP as this will apply brakes if you loose traction to a wheel in cornering.

Auto hold will hold you in 'D' 'S' or manual as long as you like, it will disengage with the slightest of tap (tiny tiny tap) on the accelerator pedal, my car then creeps forward in 1st ('D') with no gas applied, it will do this on a moderate hill, a little gas pedal and away we go. silky smooth and very very easy to get a grip of.

It seems as though they has messed something up on the 2nd Gen set up. There must be something telling the car the 2 second rule i would suspect that if they could find the file it would just be a case of changing a 2 to a 5.

could it be down to cost saving measures

[CharlesCourtney]

I am hoping they can do something like a software upgrade to at least change the delay in the future - right now they can do nothing.

I think that you are looking at the wrong place for a solution - the delay does not need to be changed, the DSG needs a sightly different driving style with hill starts than a old fashioned Auto.

as Rhigour said :


It is a matter of bringing the left foot back into play, keep the left foot on the brake and lift the revs with the right to about 1200 then the car will move forward on releasing the brake and not roll back.

problem solved - don't see what extending the the delay would achieve over this ?

[bilen123]

To avoid using the left foot. (The pedals are so close together anyway)

[CharlesCourtney]

To avoid using the left foot. (The pedals are so close together anyway)

But in which case 2s is more than enough to take your foot off the brake and onto the accelerator.

[bilen123]

I agree with you totally but you explain that to the Mrs....I think her problem is the fear of not switching fast enough and if she does, being careful not to hit the accelerator too hard in an effort to avoid a stall (if that is possible) and hit another vehicle in front or zoom off to quick (could be an issue on icy roads)

Basically she has to think now!!! which for her is NOT ON.... especially when she's not needed to do that ever since she's been drving autos (10yrs+)

[CharlesCourtney]

I know I have to be careful what I say in response to that as to not offend but I cant resist the following observation :


Basically she has to think now!!!

Thinking while driving - what ever next ! :D

[bilen123]

I know I know!!!!but with 2 screaming kids in the back she does not want to concentrate on anything more than she needs to ....hence always opting for an AUTO. Besides there are more things to worry about these days - poeple on the road who can't drive!!

I must admit when I changed BMW from manual auto (full auto) it was wonderul. Also I don't really see the point of a semi-auto...either it's an automatic or it's not!

[CharlesCourtney]

I must admit when I changed BMW from manual auto (full auto) it was wonderul. Also I don't really see the point of a semi-auto...either it's an automatic or it's not!

It is automatic in the scene it handles the changing of gears, in the one small area of hill starts it is different to a traditional auto.

However where it really wins (and is why my wife was over the moon with my choice) is the emissions and fuel economy. On the Golf Plus I have, the 122 with the DSG is better on both emissions and fuel economy than the manual - where a traditional auto is always worse than the comparable manual option.

As I said in a eariler post :
Given the drive (no pun intended) towards better fuel efficiency and emissions I would not be at all surprised to see most traditional auto boxes being replaced by DSG types in the future

[Rhigour]

I know I know!!!!but with 2 screaming kids in the back she does not want to concentrate on anything more than she needs to ....hence always opting for an AUTO. Besides there are more things to worry about these days - poeple on the road who can't drive!!

I must admit when I changed BMW from manual auto (full auto) it was wonderul. Also I don't really see the point of a semi-auto...either it's an automatic or it's not!

Why not persuade the wife that this small extra skill is well worth acquiring as once she has become familiar with this gearbox she will get much pleasure driving the car, trust me.( practice when the brood are zonked out).

When done she could move on to learn the launch control procedure as set out in the drivers manual.
. Switch off ESP
. Gear selector in S
. Left foot hard on brake
. Lift revs to 3500.
. Lift left foot
. Good morning Officer.

Anyone know why this is included in the driving instructions and why it does not come with the usual disclaimer ? :D

[CharlesCourtney]

When done she could move on to learn the launch control procedure as set out in the drivers manual.


Do you know if all 122/DSG have the launch control program - my manual says "if fitted" but don't know if it is. When I try it - the clutch seems to engage and car pull forward before I get near 3000 rpm - so have not tried more than twice ?

[Bassajay]

I really cannot understand what the problem is here regarding hill starts with the DSG. Some DSGs do not even come with hill start control so how do those drivers cope? They simply drive as normal and it makes no difference if the car is a full auto, semi auto or manual - by applying the foot or hand brake when stopping on an upward facing incline. To move off it is coordination between releasing the brake and accelerating to move off smoothly - a natural process first aquired when learning to drive in the first place for goodness sake. Even with a full automatic you still use the brake at standstill whether on a uphill or downhill gradient or on the flat - even more imperative with a full automatic's creep.
The DSG on hill starts, as with any other semi auto, only requires to be driven as if it were a manual but with the bonus that you will not stall. Access to the hill hold control is for 2 secs. from releasing the brake until the accelerator is depressed - in a normal coordinated hill start it would not even be needed.