Golf Ser.3 TD Odd Engine Problem

[JVOB]

hi All,

I posted a few weeks ago and didn't get any answers, so I thought I would just try again with a fuller explanation. I am an OAP and much retired motor engineer who is trying to avoid the expensive and bottomless pit of the "let's just pull it to bits and have a look inside" senario. All I get from my local VW Main Dealer is a furrowed brow and a gallic shrug..a bad sign!

The 1993 1.9 TD has just under 100k on the clock and otherwise runs very well, no smoke and doesn't use oil, and starts well. however 10,000 mls ago a deep (single) knocking sound started, not an end but a main bearing like sound. This has continued and now is more of a multi mainbearing noise. BUT, only when operating the clutch, even slightly. If flicked out of gear and the throttle blipped to listen for end or main noises??..Nothing, a sweet as a nut.
nb. Since the noise started I have had a complete new clutch and a complete new head and valves (due to an early cam belt failure). When mentioning the noise all I got was... hmmm...Dunno!

Is it possible that excessive crankshaft end float is allowing the crank web to touch the inside of the block when the clutch is used? I don't know what controls the float setting, is it the main bearings? or is there a separate thrust bearing? And if so can these bearings be changed with the engine in situe? Or is it something else?

Any suggestions gratefully received.

JVOB

[stuart]

Hi JVOB

Looking at the VAG picture, they do have trust shims on the crank, as well as the normal bearings.

Stuart

[JVOB]

Hi Stuart,
Thanks for that, does the VAG picture show by any chance if the crank webs have much clearance and would touch anything if the shims have gone?

I suppose as they are presumably just like thin packing washers? ( how thin are theyby the way?), then the crank has to come out to change them?.. which if so is a real pain, as I suspect the cost of that amount of work will be certainly more that the car is worth.

I really appreciate your looking this up for me Stuart, it's more than VW UK Customer Services would do... "Sorry, The Technical Advice Dept don't have a customer facing roll".

JVOB

[stuart]

Hi Stuart,
Thanks for that, does the VAG picture show by any chance if the crank webs have much clearance and would touch anything if the shims have gone?

I suppose as they are presumably just like thin packing washers? ( how thin are theyby the way?), then the crank has to come out to change them?.. which if so is a real pain, as I suspect the cost of that amount of work will be certainly more that the car is worth.

I really appreciate your looking this up for me Stuart, it's more than VW UK Customer Services would do... "Sorry, The Technical Advice Dept don't have a customer facing roll".

JVOB

Hi JVOB

The picture I looked at does not show much really, it was just an exploded view of the crank and bearings.

If I remeber correct, from my dealer days, the thrust are about 4-5mm thick at the most, and cost around £10.00 for a set! YES just £10.00!!! but I would also imagine it is a fairly copmplicated job if you are unsure what you are doing.

If the crank has to come out, it may be worth changing the main and big end bearings whilst it is in bits.

Just a thought, if you only get a noise when you engage the clutch,and pull away, what are the engine mounts like? if one of these is worn, it would cause the engine to "kick" when you engage drive...may be worth a look, if you have'nt already.

I do know a Volkswagen specialist in Leeds, who could give some advise, may even tell you what could be the problem;) I can email is number if you want it.

Stuart

[JVOB]

Stuart. Thank you for your your help. I can sort the problem now.

Isn't a shame that we now don't seem to get that level of close attention to problems that we used to. Indeed,when I followed the telephone instructions from VW 's own Customer Care Dept. (to get the info you kindly have now given), instead of getting the "on line technical engine specialist" as promised I finished up with a web site page where I was able to purchase a workshop manual and put "it in my cart"...That is not exactly where I wanted to put it!!

Good luck with the forum I suspect that you are going to be a VERY popular boy..you are already in this house.

Best wishes
JVOB

[Alun]

Hi there,

I have stumbled upon this forum and was reading your part about the problem you had/have with the knocking noise coming from the clutch?

I have a '94 Golf 1.9TD with 106,000 miles on the clock, it has a full service history and I have exactly the same problem with the tappety/knocking noise coming from the clutch when the clutch is in use, even, as you said, when slightly in use. You described it exactly as it happens in my car. It's thoroughly annoying and I was wondering if you managed to solve the problem? It's due for a service so I'm hoping it won't cost the earth to fix the fault.

Any advice would be like gold dust

Many thanks

[JVOB]

Hi Alun,

Since I last posted I have had a long discussion with a technical chap a Murreys our new local VW Agent. who said that the crank thrust bearing can only be replaced with the crank removed. which is too expensive to think about. BUT.. the symptoms I describe sound more like a gearbox layshaft bearing on the way out I. nb. I don't see how it can be!). However, I do hope so 'cos a second hand gearbox bears thinking about). The other thing was that he a "NEVER EVER" heard of a problem with crankshaft thrust bearings on that engine which he thought "bullet proof" in that regard. I'm going over to let him have a listen

I will let you know if I find an answer,

Regards, JVOB

[Alun]

Hi JOVB,

I have been reading the "Fault Finding" section in a newly aquired Haynes Manual, and under the heading "noise when depressing or releasing clutch pedal" it has the following symptoms,

1. Worn clutch release bearing (not likely)
2. Worn or dry clutch pedal bushes (not likely)
3. Faulty pressure plate assembly (possibly)
4. Pressure plate diaphragm spring broken (possibly)
5. Broken clutch disc cushioning springs (possibly)

I don't know if these are the symptoms for the problem in our cars, but it's a suggestion. I'm going to see a trusted local mechanic sometime this week to book it in for a service and cambelt change, and I will see if he can diagnose the problem. I'm thinking of having a new clutch fitted to see if that will solve it? Also while I think on, the clutch is unusually heavy, any ideas?

Regards

Alun

P.S. I think we can narrow it down to an "Odd Transmision Problem"!

[JVOB]

Dear Alun,

Tried a new clutch assembly and it didn't stop the noise. The outfit who changed it also thought it was the transmission, they had the car on their rolling road and also were trying with one wheel stopped to see if it was from the diff. assembly, but it wasn't...my noise has been banging away for over 10.000 miles now and is only now getting REALLY bad, to the point where I think something may go bang very soon.

JVOB

[Alun]

You say your's has been banging away for over 10,000 miles. I bought mine in November and it's been doing it since then. I took the risk of buying from an auction and got a serious bargain, but with this one fault. The noise isn't really bad and is non-existant under about 2500rpm, it's only when it gets into the higher revs and I have to change gear that it's really noticable. Just out of curiosity, how much would it cost roughly to take the engine out and get it overhauled?

regards

[JVOB]

Alun.
Very serious money, that's if it's thrust bearings..if it's gearbox, a second hand one inc.fitting might prove a good escape, otherwise it's best to stick it back into he auctions and buy another, but next time drive ride the clutch before you bid eh! Anyway first wait a bit 'till weve sorted out what's wrong for sure.
Regards
JVOB

[Alun]

I imagine it's something really simple that is so small it's been overlooked. Best of luck in sourcing the fault. If I come up with an answer I will let you know asap.

regards

Alun