Wastegate / VNT actulator

[Marc1]

Just want to check if the actulator rod is shown in the middle of this picture?
http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp108/1-marc/220220092968.jpg

Taken from under the car, I can move the small switch type thing connected to the rod about 1cm or so using my thumb. It's ackward to get to, but it does move. Thanks. Was just checking it as a possible cause for overboost - think I can rule it out if it proves to be the right thing, as free moving.

[Crasher]

Yes, that is it. Which fault code number are you getting?

[Marc1]

Thanks for the confirmation Crasher - it appears I'm learning a little :biglaugh:.

The fault code was 17965 - Charge Pressure Control: Positive Deviation

I can't see any perished or split hoses or pipes, don't have suitable tools to do a proper leak test though. Wastegate / VNT actuator was my main concern though really. Need to check sensors too I suppose. Can you think of anything else at all?

Problems occured since having a remap 900 miles ago - limp mode 3-4 times since. It's back at the tuners on Wednesday, although I wanted to make sure I'd checked as much as I possible prior to the visit.

[Crasher]

With 17965 it is normally a failed N75 valve or sticking turbo vanes, 17964 is normally a split vacuum hose but either can also be a failed AMM but that is quite rare in my experience, I think you have a partially clogged turbo which a remap can show up.

[Marc1]

Thanks again Crasher. So the N75 is replaceable at relatively little cost by comparison. But what can be done about sticking vanes? And I thought a free moving actuator was a good sign they weren't sticking, is this not the case? Do you know how it's best to find out which is causing the problem? The overboost, and limp mode is intermittent at the moment, but becoming more regular.

[Crasher]

The N75 is reasonably inexpensive and easy to fit but does not fail as often as people would have you believe. The vanes can be dealt with using Innotec cleaner, removing the turbo for stripping and cleaning or by fitting a new turbo.

[Marc1]

Cheers Crasher. Do you need to remove the turbo to use the Innotec cleaner? This is new to me.

[Crasher]

No, you do it by removing the downpipe, very effective and has worked in 75% of cases for me so far. I can supply mail order for £65 all in.

[Marc1]

Cheers Crasher - I'll let you know then, I'm back at the tuners tomorrow, so we'll see what happens. Good to know this could work a treat though :biglaugh: How many turbo's have you resurrected?

[Crasher]

Quite a few, can’t remember the number. One very important tool I use doing this is a Mityvac hand vacuum pump. I use this to operate the VNT unit whilst the cleaner is inside the exhaust turbine housing.

[Marc1]

Great advise as always Crasher :beerchug: I'll keep this in mind, should I have to go down this route.

[Mike McKinstry]

Crasher,
At long last am also goin to try the innotec route.Any ideas best place to buy my own mityvac pump or local distributors??
Also do you need to pump up to a pressure and can I do any damage??

Regards,
Mike

[Crasher]

I bought my Mityvac off the Snap On chap. It isn’t pressure you apply but a vacuum and it doesn’t seem to be possible to apply too much vacuum with a Mityvac.

[Marco34]

I've read somewhere that VCDS would perfrom full movement on the VNT if in basic settings. Anyone know if this is correct? I've read a few forums that people have done this to ensure 'exercise' of the mechanism if performing many short journeys.... :confused:

Do the engine output test perform this also?

Thanks

Mark

[Crasher]

Yes that would have been me. It is done with the engine idling, Engine 01, Basic Settings 04, Main Group 011 and click “GO” and the revs will rise to about 1200 rpm and the actuator will cycle on/off about every 15 seconds. The display in Zone 2 will show on/off alternately and the display in Zone 3 will show the boost which will be roughly 1000 mBar during off and rising to as much as 1400Mbar during on but 1200 Mbar is more typical. During this you will be able to see the VNT rod move and if it doesn’t, there is a problem. If it makes very tiny jerking movements it is stuck and will often free off with a little “encouragement” or there may be a vacuum leak if it does not move at all or even a failed N75. Incidentally, the shareware version of VAG-COM will not do this. We perform this test on every PD TDI (and some VEP TDI’s will also do it) that we service.

[Marco34]

Interesting, thanks Crasher. I'll give it a go as I have the full version. I've just been wary of basic settings. One last thing... 'as Columbo said'

Some folks lubricate the actuator rod at the bottom as they say road grime can cause problems? Any mileage in doing this? I would have thought this would attract more grime!!

[Crasher]

I agree, grease may attract dirt but I use aluminium paste when I have them apart for cleaning.

[Marco34]

For basic settings to operate do you have to click Go for all? Cycling through them won't cause any problems will it?

[Crasher]

You have to click “GO” or press any key, scrolling through them won’t operate the few functions there are and you can’t do any harm anyway. I just do a direct 011 entry and click “GO”.

[Marco34]

You have to click “GO” or press any key, scrolling through them won’t operate the few functions there are and you can’t do any harm anyway. I just do a direct 011 entry and click “GO”.

Marvellous, thanks very much.

[Marc1]

Slightly off topic, but I'm thinking I may have to finally stump up for VCDS to help get to the bottom of the overboost issues, so wanting to check the actuator etc. Did you all buy yours from ross-tech and is it the HEX-CAN interface I need for a B6 (54)? Does anyone know if you can redownload it once you've got a licence, i.e. if your laptop decides to fail and you need to reinstall on another machine?

Crasher, does the innotec turbo clean come with instructions so a relative novice can carry out the procedure? This damn car is costing me far too much money that I don't have, so if I can avoid labour costs that's a good thing, besides the garages I've spoken to have not / claim not to have heard about this, so I don't fancy being their guinea pig and getting stung for additional labour / parts.

Cheers for any help guys. :beerchug:

[Crasher]

The Inotec cleaner comes with instructions but a Mityvac hand vacuum pump is necessary to operate the vanes with the cleaner in there.

[Marc1]

Cheers Crasher, is there any other of way of doing it? Rather than buying another item, or if not, do you know what somrt of prices the pumps are?

[randall977]

I've also been having problems with overboost and my conclusion is that the following make up the list of likely faults (assuming that the turbo itself is not the problem);

Vacuum leak
Boost Pressure sensor
DV
N75 Valve
Coil pack
I've 90% cured mine by replacing 2,3 and 5 (5 having most effect). Wondering if I should get 4 replaced...

[Crasher]

Cheers Crasher, is there any other of way of doing it? Rather than buying another item, or if not, do you know what somrt of prices the pumps are?

Depends on how hard you can suck!

[B8 TDI]

Depends on how hard you can suck!
:biglaugh:

[Marc1]

Depends on how hard you can suck!

Fair point, lol! I hear, you can't restart the turbo dry after cleaning and you need to inject oil in, does this sound right?

[Crasher]

You are cleaning the exhaust turbine which is dry anyway, the centre bearing is oil lubricated and air cooled but the exhaust turbine is dry from day one.

[Marc1]

Got you, thanks Crasher.

[Mike McKinstry]

Interestingly,or not,my actuator rod moves s should however still believe VNt is cause of overboost and hence clean.
Crasher-have you any idea hoew long innotec is lasting-i know depends on how long journeys are etc but very roughly-3 months-3 weeks?
Also answer to post above mityvac pumps can be found for around £40 in uk .
Mike

[Crasher]

Crasher-have you any idea hoew long innotec is lasting-i know depends on how long journeys are etc but very roughly-3 months-3 weeks?

All the ones I have done that worked (about 70% success rate) are still OK so at least a year so far in two cases.

[Marco34]

Is there a basic settings test for EGR valve? I'm thinking it may a good idea to have the egr move in it's full range of motion and test it's function. ??

[Mike McKinstry]

Thanks Crasher-good to know.
Mike

[Crasher]

Yes there is a Basic Settings EGR ON/OFF function test, can’t remember the group number though, 9 I think.

[Marco34]

Yes there is a Basic Settings EGR ON/OFF function test, can’t remember the group number though, 9 I think.

Grazie... I will check.:beerchug:

[Marco34]

I ran the basic settings test on the EGR last night. When the EGR operation was off, the turbo began to spool. I noticed this when I changed the EGR settings in vagcom to minimise it's use. It's as though excess gas that would be re-cycled is driving the turbo. I set it back to standard as I found no real games from doing so.

Since the remap the hum of a spool is their upon idle; in normal operation. Is this normal? Some guys who have completely removed the EGR have not experienced this.

As a by, I don't agree with complete EGR removal due to the excess emissions.

[Marc1]

Do you know if this is the hand vacuum I need?

http://www.uktools.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=33&products_id=990

[Crasher]

Yes, thats fine.

[Mike McKinstry]

Also as stated in "overboost £1600"thread Draper and Sealey appear to do similar at comparable prices.Sealey is VS402 and currently £35 with a free tester or can get from N.I. online ,free postage for £30.

Hope Crasher agrees these would do equally well?

Mike

[Marc1]

Cheers for that Mike :beerchug: