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View Full Version : Nearly new Sciroccos on the VW website



Hogwarty
25-01-2009, 05:23 PM
First post - be gentle with me!

Just seen some 08 plate 2.0TSI GTs with loads of kit (metallic, leather, sunroof, parking sensors, nav, and winter pack) on the 'Used' bit of the VW site. One had 3200 miles and they had it listed at £24049; now the list price of a brand new car with those options would be £24668, so would anyone like to say what a reasonable bid would be? 10% off? More because of falling sales?

Greatful for your thoughts. :confused:

danbailey77
26-01-2009, 11:19 PM
There are specced up 58 plates on autotrader which would be 25k going for around 21k. I reckon that is the offer price at the mo as no-one is buying cars. There are over 150 on there - take your choice!

mister.c.
27-01-2009, 12:49 AM
From brokers like broadspeed (and VW garages) you should be able to get 10% off a new Roc - MY09 and 09 plates.

So 2008 58 plate vehicles of which there are loads, then I would expect a pretty darn good deal to be tempted. 20% off the list price off list would be a minimum to get I would say - of course they will play hardball but its a buyers market. Screw them!

maisbitt
27-01-2009, 01:01 PM
You should be looking for at least 8% on a new car to order in, on a pre registered packed with all the bells and whistles that you wouldn't have ordered for yourself, you should be looking at 12% off.

My local VW dealer is selling a pre registered 2.0TSI GT with 3 grands worth of extras for a measly £200 off the new list (by that I mean new list plus the cost of the extras) - You'd think it had an 8 month waiting list for people to be prepared to be paying that out for what is essentially a second-hand car now.

Hogwarty
27-01-2009, 10:21 PM
:approve: Thanks for the advice .. I'll let you know what I end up buying.

Thing is, now I've thought it over, I'm not sure I can cope with the idea of picking up a second hand one, when I have an overwhelming (childish? maybe) desire to see a brand new one sitting on my drive proudly displaying its 09 plate. The ones listed may have heated leather upholstery, but someone else's bum has been plonked on it for several thousand miles before mine. Guess I'm talking myself into ordering one! Off to the dealer tomorrow with your comments on discounts in mind - let battle commence...

maisbitt
28-01-2009, 09:40 AM
During the negotiations, get them to give you a part ex price for your car before you ask about the discounts, otherwise they'll give you the discount you want and then knock down your part ex price.

I got my 57 reg Golf GT sport 170 TDI (when new) for a proper £1600 discount and a normal part ex price with this tactic. Do your homework also on what you can get off on the net, they'll want you to justify the discount you're after - you'll have to prove to them that there's a better deal elsewhere.

I asked them to match the £2100 discount and £500 less on the part ex deal I was quoted at UKNEWCARS.CO.UK. They had to juggle the figures to bump up the part ex price and reduce the discount accordingly, but the price to change was the same.

As VW dealers currently think they are immune to the crunch, they're not giving away their nearly new cars with great discounts, and so they shouldn't be shafting you on the part ex value - look at the parkers value for your car and stick to it.

Current web offers off new cars to order are generally £1600-1700 off list. I would expect that and the proper part ex price for your car - it is a buyers market after all! If you're getting a private loan elsewhere and are a "cash buyer" as such, you might be able to get more. Depends how desperate your dealer is.

I certainly wouldn't buy an almost new car with options on that I wouldn't have bought myself, unless the underlying discounted price is such that those extras are free. If you bought a car and took it back to the dealer a month or so later, they'd give you about 25% less than you paid for it, so why aren't demonstrators priced the same at VW?

Theres nothing like the smell of a new car and knowing that you're the only one who's driven it (unlike a demonstrator that's probably had 500 people give it a quick thrash on a test drive).

maisbitt
29-01-2009, 09:44 AM
Hogwarty - so how was the dealership? Any whiffs of desperation on their part to do a deal?

kanec
29-01-2009, 10:29 AM
Hi,

(long time reader/first time poster)

My 2c might be worth something.

I went to a showroom about 2 weeks ago and was checking out a 58 plate GT (2.0 TSI DSG). The indication that I got is that they're certainly not desperate.

There wasn't much flex in the price what-so-ever and they quickly jumped down the finance route. It was even a hard press to get a tank of fuel.

I don't think they 'need' to sell the high spec right now, yet they only had 3 people testing the car that saturday.

Others having similiar experiences at the moment?

maisbitt
29-01-2009, 02:27 PM
When you go to the dealership and want to negotiate a price, you need to have done your homework. Instead of just asking for £1600 off a Scirocco (or Golf), you need to let them know that you can buy that car £1600 cheaper elsewhere.

I got my last Golf (previous to my current one) through UKNEWCARS.com. They work with certain dealerships across the country that will be willing to sell you the car for the discount they advertise, and for that the dealership pays them a fee (like a finders fee?). I'm from Newcastle, and the closest VW dealer they could do me a deal through was Lookers in Burnley. When I got the car, the Lookers bloke said to ring him directly the next time (presumably to cut out UKNEWCARS as the middle man).

When I was looking to buy my current car I rang the Lookers bloke - Fleet sales manager, can't remember his name.

I told him about my part ex - how many mile I had on the clock, the condition, emailed him photos etc, and he told me he'd give the £2100 discount on the current Golf, but £750 under book for my part ex. I suppose it's fair enough, you cant expect top dollar for your part ex and then a whopping discount on the new one.

I then went to my local dealership as a normal customer, got their part ex price before asking for a discount. I told the sales person that I could get the £2100 discount plus £500 less than their part ex, so if they could match that offer to save me the trouble of going to Burnley then i'd buy it.

Then the sales person has to speak to their manager, then make out that their kids won't eat for a month as you've got all his commision on the sale before agreeing to the deal. A sale is a sale. Don't let them kid you, at full retail, they'll make around £4500 on a 20 grand Scirocco or Golf, so they've still made almost 3 grand for the company by giving you that discount.

kanec
30-01-2009, 10:35 AM
Thanks for the pointers and numbers maisbitt. Very appreciated.

I agree wholeheartedly. Preparation is definitely key.

I went in with a fair idea of what I wanted. I made sure i knew what it costs off list and what you can get on some of the websites with a good reputation such as the site you listed - which works out at around 12-14% off list.

The best that the dealer would do for an ex-demo, with meagre options (that I'm not interested in) was around 12.5% off list price.

So no whiff of desperation from this particular dealer at this stage. I could get everything I want for an extra £500 spec'ing for new.

I'll work on my technique at the next dealer I visit - as that's obviously needed - but my thinking at this stage to give it a bit more time to strengthen my position and allow a few more ex-demos to appear on the market.

maisbitt
30-01-2009, 02:29 PM
If there is only £500 in it between demo and new - i'd go for new every time.

Hogwarty
30-01-2009, 06:31 PM
Well - went along and did the deed. Now I'm proudly expecting the arrival of a 2.0TSI GT in Rising Blue metallic. Like so many folk recommended, I did really thorough homeowrk before I even lifted the phone to speak to the dealer. I presented the salesman with a printout of the stats: best online deal, and a valuation of my PX from Glass' Guide and from Parkers Online. what happened surprised me as I was expecting a 'vigorous discussion' at least! I was almost immediately offered a matching discount of about 8% on list price with a fair bid for my PX (same as online valuation - not inflated) And that's for a new car.

So the lessons I've learned seem to be:

Research discounts available and rehearse negotiation in your head.
Provide hard evidence of the deal you could get elsewhere.
Make it clear you are only shopping around - other dealers, even other models.
Remember that any discount can appear as an inflated bid for your trade in - or as money off the new car - but not as both.

Finally:
Stay polite, calm but firmly in control of the proceedings!

So ends Hogwarty's theory of motor trade negotation...

Thanks for all the advice. Looking forward to telling everyone about the new baby when it arrives! :beerchug:

kanec
30-01-2009, 08:09 PM
Yeah absolutely maisbitt.

Congratulations Hogwarty!

maisbitt
02-02-2009, 10:22 AM
Hogwarty - Enjoy it!

I'll have to hold out until Sept - can't afford to run a 2.0TSI for the fuel economy i'd get, and i'd rather have a 170TDI than a 140TDI, so i'm hoping they announce the 170 soon.

Another issue is my current car - it will be 18 months old in March, so i'll be clobbered on the part ex value unless I keep it for 2 years.

I'd have the 1.4TSI Scirocco if theres no 170TDI coming, but only if it came in GT trim.

I can't see why VW do a 140TDI in GT trim, but exclude the slightly more powerful 1.4TSI from GT trim.

After having an old 140TDI and now having a 170, it would be quite a compromise to go back down to a 140.

macmillions
02-02-2009, 07:46 PM
How about buying a 140 and getting it remapped in-house to around 170-180? It wont affect warranty then...

maisbitt
03-02-2009, 09:07 AM
I need to wait until Sept anyway, so my Golf part ex price is more than i'll owe on it. The part ex price for March and Sept differ by only £500.

Not keen on remaps - more for the insurance implications than anything else. I expect the 170TDI Scirocco to have a group 14 or 15 insurance rating (160TSI 1.4 = 14, 2.0TSI = 16) if and when it is released, the insurance company probably wouldn't be so sensible to grade a remap as a group 15.

Not sure whether the 140 common rail in the Scirocco has the same piezo-electric crystal injectors as the 170 pd in the mk5 Golf.

Hogwarty
03-02-2009, 02:21 PM
Thanks maisbitt and kanec

I think you're right to wait for the higher power TDI - even if there are no immediate plans, I should think it will materialise as more and more people query it and word spreads through the dealer network back to VAG UK. For me the 140ps diesel doesn't seem to make sense, bearing in mind, for example, that the Leon FR uses the 170 TDI.

Having said that, the 1.4TSI is getting some cracking reviews, with some 'experts' sayng that the lighter engine suits the chassis better. Why then, as you say maisbitt, isn't it available as a GT? I wonder what it would cost to upspec a 1.4? (Bigger alloys, climate and fog lights? Or would you need to tick more items from the options list?) Maybe some enterprising dealer will put together a bargain package deal of 1.4 engine with GT spec options, all for a tempting price!)

Anyhow, I hope you have a great time with yours in the Autumn. I suspect that while used prices will stabilise quite quickly, new cars still won't be flying off the forecourts (whatever the engine) for a while yet. Enjoy all the browsing, choosing, bargaining and anticipation!

I'll let you know what I think of mine - sometime in very early March.

maisbitt
03-02-2009, 02:37 PM
You can spec the 1.4 TSI up to GT spec, but the list price of all the options is £1300 odd pounds vs £905 difference in price between standard 140 TDI and GT 140 TDI.

You would need to order the multifunction steering wheel with highline computer, the dual zone AC, the GT alloys, the tinted glass, the front fogs (i might have forgotten another item or so).

You'd never get anything back for the money spent when you trade in - the dealers give very little back in recognition of the optional extras when you part ex for your next car.

The only reason I would think that they might not put a 170 TDI in a Scirocco is if they think it will take sales away from the TT - I still think that they will end making the 170 TDI available.

Hogwarty
03-02-2009, 03:05 PM
I agree - I think the 170TDI is definitely coming. At the moment, it's just too conspicuous by its absence.

And while they're at it, they can make Firespark metallic red available in the UK!

mister.c.
03-02-2009, 06:01 PM
Thanks maisbitt and kanec

For me the 140ps diesel doesn't seem to make sense, bearing in mind, for example, that the Leon FR uses the 170 TDI.

Leon FR uses the old 170 engine - i.e. not the one in the A3 (from 58 plates or so onwards) or the Audi TT or the A5 or the Skoda Octavia. . The old engine (as well as sounding like a tractor and not being particular wonderful on mpg) is not compliant with the 2010 EU regs, so in the last couple of years the new engine has been rolled out and is in most VAG cars now - it will end up in the facelift Leon later on in the year.

So the 170 (when it comes) will be the new 170 common rail diesel - I'm guessing towards the mid / end of this year. Much quieter and improved CO2 emissions.

The 140 diesel will sell, plain and simple - tempting to the company car market with the economy and relatively low CO2 emissions for example.

maisbitt
09-02-2009, 05:17 PM
There's approx £2600 off new GT 2.0TSI's on drivethedeal.com

The biggest downside with this company is that they don't entertain P/X's. If you can sell your P/X privately then it's a hell of a deal. I'd be tempted if I could get my Golf sold privately.

They're nowhere near as generous on the other Scirocco variants, the usual £1600 to £1700 discounts are on the TDI's and 1.4TSI's.