Towing with an A-frame legal question

[Golf tdi Hal]

Hi, can anybody help with the legal position regarding towing with an A-frame?
I have a Golf mk3 estate 1145 kg and have towed all sorts even up to my cars own weight.
My handbook says 500kg unbraked max and 1200kg braked max, my A-frame is unbraked. I guess the braking is the problem??
Also what is the legal position of towing cars damaged/no tax, mot etc?
Any genuine answers welcome, (please no guessing !) :confused:

[adamss24]

It would be ok if the car was on a trailer as any dolly or A frame will still be classified as the car on the road and you will get a ticket for it if cought ! It did happen to me, bought a car last year, got it recovered home on a hevy duty spec lift trailer dolly, and 15 days later i got a ticket from DVLA that i was driving the said car on a public road whilst unlicenced ! Needless to say, i have challenged the ticket and went in court over it as the car had a broken cambelt at the time ! I had won as they said i was DRIVING the car on a public road and not that the car was KEPT on a public(!) road while unlicensed ! They came with their ANRP vans and seen the car parked in front of me garage on a Private road and filled the ticket on a different postcode with withneses and all ! Showed the jury the receipts for the parts, mot/tax all purchased 3 months later and the insurance details as we transferred the details onto the new car prior MOT to be able to get the tax disc...Thats a flawed system I tell you ! The car was even SORN-ed and they still tried to get me money bastids ... The funny thing was the prosecution witness claimed to have seen the car having an expired tax disc(even though the lady i bought the car from cashed the tax 9 days AFTER i bought the car) and He had 1" thick glasses ! When questioned who dove the car-woman or man-he said he could not see ! I asked: how on earth you can see an expired tax disc if you could not see the driver while the car drove by ?!!

[martin1810]

A general rule of thumb is the unbraked weight. Just about every car on the road is heavier than the unbraked weight requirement. This means that an A- frame and unbraked towing dolly are effectively illegal. Some police forces will stop and prosecute you. Some will even weigh a horse box or caravan and then prosecute for towing an over weight braked vehicle.
The real killer is your insurance. Try asking them if its ok to tow another vehicle. They will probably say NO.

[Golf tdi Hal]

Thanks for that, I never thought about insurance but I guess it would be void whilst towing ! Ouch, that is scary seeing as when I tow near my own weight my golf feels like it is being 'pushed' round roundabouts !
Acceleration is never a problem even when i towed a diesel astra estate thanks to the grunt in the VW diesel and a nice ECU reprogram....

I always cover the plates on the car I am towing to protect the seller of the duff vehicle, I have a numbered trailerboard and orange beacon on the roof. Plod has never troubled me yet but it would be very embarrasing to get done as I am about to finish a law degree !

[Ben]

the father in law has a motor home and tows with an a frame,

your a frame is unbraked, therefore you can only pull up to 500kg
how many cars weigh less than that?

you are towing a car on your a frame, the car is therefore a trailer, if it has brakes, they MUST be used.

simple.

[wacky77]

actually the unbraked limit is 750kg not 500kg.
I have an A-frame and have used it without a problem or attention from the police a few times, I also hire it out on ebay and no one I've hired it to has had any issues, these include-
A peugeot 306 towing a vecta from durham to barnsley.
A golf with no bonnet/wings/engine towed from sheffield to southampton.

Its a big grey area as there are no specific laws for an A frame, for instance one person I hired it to rang the local police about using it before hiring it and they said it was fine as long as it was correctly fitted, yet a different person did the same with police from a different area and they said he'd be pulled and prosecuted???

I hire it out under condition it is soley the users responsibilty and it has been all over the country and not once has anyone using it had any attention from the police.

[Eshrules]

I don't see how there's any grey areas.

If the towing frame is unbraked, you can only weight equivalent to the unbraked towing capacity of the towing vehicle.

In regards to the vehicle being towed, as long as there are wheels on the road, it needs to have valid Tax, MOT and Insurance.

Simplest way to deal with this would be to invest in a proper car trailer, a trailer license (if applicable) and ensure your insurance covers you for towing such equipment.

I don't care much for these statements of 'my brothers dog did XYZ without issue'. Countless chavs run around in their modmobiles without issue, doesn't mean it's legal.

[wacky77]

simple isnt it? yet not.
IF the car is regarded as a trailer by the attachment of an A frame it need not have MOT tax or insurance. I have a twin axle 1600kg caravan, yet I've never had to tax/insure/MOT it. It weighs the equivelent as a lot of cars, has the same amount of wheels yet it isn't classed as a car.
When towing the whole outfit is classed as 1 'rig' which is covered by the towcar's insurance, hence the requirement to display the reg mark of the car doing the towing.
If the car being towed has to have its own tax/mot/insurance then it isn't regarded as a trailer and trailer weight limits can't apply, as it isn't regarded as a trailer..

So, you see, whatever your brothers dog did or how many mods your local chavs have the use of an A frame has no specific rules, does it make a car a trailer? if so its overweight BUT needs no MOT/tax/insurance.
If it needs tax/insurance/MOT then it can't be overweight because it can't be classed as a trailer.

If you don't want to use one then don't, I'm not saying its ok (or not)to use them. I am saying the police in general don't seem to be bothered by the use of them.

The 'unbraked capacity' of the towing vehicle has no relevance in the uk, max unbraked limit is 750kg end of.

I have access to a transporter trailer but if its a distance its a hastle towing it empty there and more strain on the car towing a vehicle back on it due to the extra weight of the trailer over an A frame.

[wacky77]

by the way if anyone is thinking of towing a proper Audi with an A frame then forget it, the multilink front suspension doesn't allow easy fitment of the A frame to the wishbones. Same goes for Audi based Passats and Skoda Superbs.

Golf-based Audi's such as the A3 or TT should be ok as they have McPherson strut front suspension....

this is what I use-

http://intertradeuk.co.uk/catalogue_php/product_info.php?cPath=21_26&products_id=36

[Ben]

the father-in-law has one of these fitted to his panda.

http://www.towtal.co.uk/motorhome-a-frames/

granted, it is not easily removed.

[Ben]

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Usingmotorwaysandroads/Roadsafetyadvice/DG_192285


Towing a caravan or trailer - the safety regulations

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_4020341.jpg
Before you set off on a trip with a trailer or caravan, make sure you meet the legal requirements for towing. Check your driving licence and your vehicle and be sure you have the right equipment to be safe on the road.
Check you have the right driving licence

If you passed your driving test after 1996 and have an ordinary Category B licence, you can drive either of the following:

a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes (3,500 kilograms) maximum gross weight towing a trailer of up to 750 kilograms maximum gross weight (up to 4,250 kilograms in total)
a trailer over 750 kilograms maximum gross weight as long as it is no more than the unladen or 'kerb' weight of the towing vehicle (up to 3,500 kilograms in total)
For anything heavier you need to take a Category B + E driving test.

The rules are different for drivers who passed their test before 1997 and have not been banned since. You can find full details by following the link below.

The driving licence you need to tow a caravan or trailer (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_4022564)



Know your towing weight and width limits

Most standard cars have a maximum recommended towing weight. It's usually listed in the handbook or specification sheet. You can also find it on the vehicle identification number (VIN) plate on the car.

The VIN plate is usually under the bonnet or inside the driver's door. It will list a maximum vehicle weight and a maximum train weight. The maximum vehicle weight is what the fully loaded car weighs and the train weight is the maximum weight for the car plus a trailer. If your VIN plate doesn't list a train weight, you should not use your vehicle for towing.


Width and length

The width limit for any towing vehicle is 2.55 metres. The length limit is 7 metres for a trailer towed by a vehicle weighing up to 3.5 tonnes (3,500 kilograms).

Check your equipment meets safety standards

The equipment you use with your trailer or caravan must meet certain safety standards.

Use a type-approved tow bar

If you get a tow bar for your car, make sure it is type-approved. This means it meets EU regulations and is designed for your car. A type-approved tow bar will have a label with an approval number and details of the vehicles for which it is approved.
If your car was registered before 30 July 1998, your tow bar doesn't need to be type-approved.
Fit towing mirrors if you need them


If your caravan or trailer is wider than the narrowest part of the rear of the towing vehicle, you must by law fit suitable towing mirrors. These mirrors are usually 'E-marked' (mirrors with this mark meet EU requirements).
If you're towing blind (without towing mirrors) or using unsuitable mirrors, you can be:

prosecuted by the police
given three points on your licence
fined up to £1,000


Check your trailer brakes

Any trailer weighing over 750 kilograms must have a working brake system. Some smaller trailers also have brakes, although these are optional. Any brakes on a trailer or caravan must be in good working order. If you haven't used the trailer for while, you may need to get the brakes checked and serviced.

Towing a car using an A-frame or dolly

If you attach an A-frame to a car in order to tow it with a larger vehicle, the car plus A-frame counts as a trailer.
If you use a dolly to tow a broken-down vehicle, the dolly counts as a trailer.
In both cases the usual safety regulations for trailers apply.

Using your motorcycle to tow a trailer

You can use your motorcycle to tow a trailer if the:

motorcycle has an engine size over 125cc and is clearly and permanently marked with its kerbside weight
trailer is no more than 1 metre wide and clearly and permanently marked with the unladen weight
When the trailer is loaded it must weigh no more than 150 kilograms or two-thirds of the kerbside weight of the motorcycle - whichever is lighter.
When the trailer is hitched to the motorcycle, it must be no more than 2.5 metres from the motorcycle's rear axle to the back of the trailer.

Towing an American caravan or trailer

American trailers and caravans don't always meet European safety regulations. For example, there are often differences in the braking systems and the size of the ball hitch used for coupling.
If you're considering using an American caravan or trailer in Britain or elsewhere in the European Union, you must first check that it is legal. Follow the link below to download the factsheet below about using one of these caravans or trailers in Britain.

[wacky77]

thanks Ben.

So, a car fiited with a recovery A frame IS an overweight unbraked trailer, tax/MOT/insurance isn't needed but a braking system is....

Modern motorhome A frames I've seen are dedicated to the car they're towing i.e. the car is permenantly fitted with brackets that the A frame easily attaches to, this also incorporates a braking system that I would assume works the handbrake cable via an extra cable attachement at the front. This appears to work in the same principle as any braked trailer.
The majority of these also have a plug fitted so the rear lights of the car being towed become the 'trailer lights'.

[antony.w]

The AA use A-frames to tow vehicles a lot. When I looked into the legality of this method of towing I seem to remember that the un-braked weight limit is waived if you are recovering a broken down vehicle.

I got stopped towing a Honda Accord with a Nissan 200SX by an Officer who, unfortunately for me, claimed to be an expert in towing law. I told him I was taking the car from my home in Worcestershire to Scotland. He said if I was simply recovering the car I was legal. I had to pay for a recovery truck then hire a trailer and borrow a Land Rover.

[philz55]

A friend of mine who has towed with an A frame behind the motorhome was advised by VOSA that the A frame is only acceptable as a towing device for recovery purpose and a totally different set of regulations apply when towing.

He has looked into the legality of this and stopped towing. Wether police stop you or not is random. They will not stop everyone for every offence they see therefore just because you have not been stopped does not make you legal.