Cambelt - 152 or 153 teeth?

[Last Triumph]

Whilst enquiring about the price of parts, I was advised that it depends on whether my car has a 152 or 153 tooth set up. (152 parts are no longr available).

If this is the case, I will assume that my new continental cambelt will have 153 teeth....

....Does this mean I cannot fit it to my car as it stands?

I bought a new tensioner pulley and will re-use the original hydraulic tensioner and mini roller.

How will I know if the original hyd tension and mini roller are okay for my new belt?

Or doesn't it matter?

I guess that the hydraulic tensioner will automatically set the correct tension and shouldn't matter?

I could do with a little reassurance.

The belt I took off was installed in 2003. Womnder if it is 152 or 153?

Can someone fill me in on whether this is important?

[calum]

Change the whole lot , don't do a job by halves . It could cost you much more than you could save by not replacing these items .
152 toothed belt was the kit with the old style tensioner the 153 toothed belt is the kit with the new style tensioner .They cannot be mix and matched , they work in a different way .

Ultimately it's your choice , Calum .

[Last Triumph]

Change the whole lot , don't do a job by halves . It could cost you much more than you could save by not replacing these items .
152 toothed belt was the kit with the old style tensioner the 153 toothed belt is the kit with the new style tensioner .They cannot be mix and matched , they work in a different way .

Ultimately it's your choice , Calum .


But how do I know what was already on there, or will I just need to count teeth?

[adamss24]

Second that, the 152 teeth cambelt kit had a hydraulic tensioner wich was prone to failures(the little ball like piston wore out the socket/housing and it would work loose thus damaging the engine as the belt/camshaft would strip or jump theets!) I had rebuilt a few 1.8 Na 20V engines with the old style tensioner wich bent valves because of that. Replace the complete kit(including the hydraulic damper and relay roller), dont be a cheapskate as it would cost you a new engine/write off the car ! Also replace the cams oil seals while you are at it ! Just fit the new style cambelt kit, the old 152 Cambelt kit is OBSOLETE NOW ! Someone elses done the maths for you allready !

[Last Triumph]

Okay, os if 152 parts are obsolete, I must have a 153 tooth belt and a 153 typr tensioner pulley - yes?

How did the tensioner pullys differ?

Hence I only now need to buy a hydraulic tensioner IF the one I have isn't already a 153 type ( i need to count the teeth on my old belt to be sure)

Does anyone have a picture of the old style and new style so I can see the difference to be sure of what I have?

Did the cam oil seal today.... bugger to get on without dislodging the spring!

[calum]

New style . http://www.passat-parts.com/images/ATWTimingBeltKit.JPG

old style .


http://www.passatworld.com/forum_infobase/daddymatt/DSC00121.jpg


Calum .

[Last Triumph]

Hooray!

Something had to go right eventually.

Looks like the last cam belt change saw the upgrade to 153 system!

Counted the teeth on the old belt - 153, and the tensioner is the same as the new one in your link pic.

Phew, what a relief.

Anyway, new cam seal belt and tensioner all fitted now - eventually. Took 3 goes to get the cam sprocket on the right belt tooth so they all lined up!

My only concern now is why the tensioner bolts don;t seem to want to torque up very tight?

The threads are fine and it is going into a cast iron block so they can't chew.

Is it just because the heads are compressing the soft ally body of the tensioner?
How tight should I go - really don't want to strip them, but they don't seem to be getting any tighter...

[adamss24]

They will come off because of the vibrations so they use a fairly soft compound and the threads locks into place. Its symilar to the head bolts but on a reduced scale. If it makes you happy, you can get normal bolts and smear thread lock compound on them and fit... It might be ok for the lifetime of the belt but the germans overengineer things sometimes(aka they think too much and complicate things !)...

[Last Triumph]

They will come off because of the vibrations so they use a fairly soft compound and the threads locks into place. Its symilar to the head bolts but on a reduced scale. If it makes you happy, you can get normal bolts and smear thread lock compound on them and fit... It might be ok for the lifetime of the belt but the germans overengineer things sometimes(aka they think too much and complicate things !)...

'Nuff said... I'll order a couple of bolts from VW in the morning for a sat am delivery.

Do I need thread lock, as the original ones had green gunk on them when I took them out.

Also, what torque do they require?

[adamss24]

They will need 10-15 Newtons. I wont use a decalibrated torque wrench as i rather trust me hand ! Get a small 1/3" ratchet and just give it a 20-30 degrees nip when the bolt seems to lock. Do not overdue it as they stretch and will shear off. Hope this helps.

[Last Triumph]

Thanks - I ordered 4 bolts just in case the cam seal leaks and I need to take it all off again for a second attempt.... fingers crossed the cam seal went in okay.

I've got some thread lock as a belt and braces measure and I'll give them 15Nm which in layman terms is a "firm squeeze on the ratchet"

Thanks.

With any luck, I'll get the motor running naked tommorrow to tst for leaks at the cam seal, and if all seams well, I'll put it all back together.

What an episode!

[Panzerdriver]

Thread lock would be advisable and if you have a calibrated torque wrench then use it as it is all too easy to strip fine threads or shear the bolt (easyout time)

Better to be safe than sorry torque settings are there for a reason (every bolt we use on civil aircraft has a torque setting from the monster bolts to the smallest) and yes we do sometimes nip up a little more when and where required. :D Like adamss24 its down to experience and confidence.

[Last Triumph]

Thread lock would be advisable and if you have a calibrated torque wrench then use it as it is all too easy to strip fine threads or shear the bolt (easyout time)

Better to be safe than sorry torque settings are there for a reason (every bolt we use on civil aircraft has a torque setting from the monster bolts to the smallest) and yes we do sometimes nip up a little more when and where required. :D Like adamss24 its down to experience and confidence.

Cheers.

Do you concur that 15Nm is sufficient?

[Panzerdriver]

15nm's is approx 11 lbs foot which in the grand scheme of things is not a huge force, what size is the bolt/s?

With thread lock this figure should be fine, but is there a figure given for these particular bolts?

There should be a range for example 11-15nm quoted in the manual either Haynes or another generic type but certainly in my industry all our torque wrenches are calibrated plus we do check them ourselves prior to use on a torque meter.

This may sound over the top but the last thing you want either on aircraft or critical items on a car coming loose.

[Last Triumph]

15nm's is approx 11 lbs foot which in the grand scheme of things is not a huge force, what size is the bolt/s?

With thread lock this figure should be fine, but is there a figure given for these particular bolts?

There should be a range for example 11-15nm quoted in the manual either Haynes or another generic type but certainly in my industry all our torque wrenches are calibrated plus we do check them ourselves prior to use on a torque meter.

This may sound over the top but the last thing you want either on aircraft or critical items on a car coming loose.

I bought the new bolts from VW this morning and the chap asked one of the techs who came out to speak to me. He said that 15Nm is fine with a dab of thread lock. They are M6x22 so not very big.

Job was completed today and all is well.... except all the f***ing oil leaks!

[Panzerdriver]

Nice one with the bolts for that size 15nm's would be cool, sorry to hear about the oil leaks had a similar problem on a calibra turbo for years only to find it was the sump gasket (sandwich type) :aargh4:

[Last Triumph]

Nice one with the bolts for that size 15nm's would be cool, sorry to hear about the oil leaks had a similar problem on a calibra turbo for years only to find it was the sump gasket (sandwich type) :aargh4:

I'm slowly investigating the oil leaks, but I fear a sump gasket replacement job is on the cards.... which as we know on a Passat is about as pleasent as eating a blue-tac sandwhich!