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AndySil
15-01-2009, 01:47 AM
I've decided to start a new thread as my previous posts were added to someone elses and we've moved away from the original topic of head gaskets.

I have a 1988 Golf Tour with 1.8 GU engine and the original 2E2 carb.
After lots of effort it is actually running pretty good.
I have had numerous problems getting the carb to run stable.
The symptoms ranged from, fast idle/ running on/ stalling/juddering when warming up/high petrol consumption etc. most of which can be caused by the automatic choke body not getting sufficiently hot enough to make the waxstat respond and bring down the revs to the prescribed 800rpm.
Other problems are leaky pipes for various vacuum reliant functions.
For a long time I had a 'dead spot' symptom, in my opinion one of the most annoying and irritating of problems. The one that lets you down when pulling away on a traffic island for e.g.
Also, if you slightly revved the engine repeatedly during ticking over, the engine would stall completely as if flooded .
I couldn't find a way to remedy this fault other than a slight improvement when cleaning the plugs. In my frustration I took the car to a local VW specialist centre and the chap there took me for a drive in it, only to ask me "well what's wrong with that mate, it's going perfectly!"
Problem was, he drove the car so slowly and carefully that the dead spot did not occur and the chap just would not accept that there was a problem.
Being dissatisfied with this outcome I decided to completely strip the carb and replace any necessary parts with a 2E2 service kit.
After taking the top off the carb I revealed the culprit. There is a part called the accelerator pump injection nozzle which squirts fuel down into the primary port. This nozzle is supposed to have a ball bearing in it but it was missing and so fuel would pour out of the hole left by the missing ball bearing when the accelerator was operated. I managed to find another complete nozzle from a carb off a 1.6 engine. I fitted this on and bingo, we were back in business. I don't know if the nozzle jet is the same size as the original or not, but it has certainly stopped the engine from flooding and stalling. For a long time the 'dead spot' went away, but hey, guess what? It's back!
Anyone got any ideas?

adamss24
15-01-2009, 10:02 AM
I would look on ebay for a rebuilt/2nd hand Webber 32/34 carburettor as the Pierburg 2E2 one fitted on the golf was unreliable(read notoriously *****)...

AndySil
15-01-2009, 01:54 PM
I forgot to add that I'm not ready to go down the Webber route yet. But appreciate your input.

I have purchased a used one just in case I submit. But at present I am determined to beat the beast and keep the car original.

It's gotta be made to ave it!

macmillions
16-01-2009, 10:03 PM
You're a persistant man!
I've thrown in the towel with my 2E2. So ordering a Weber after pay day. As the car's only done 95k I feel it could be money well spent to prolong the life of the engine. As I have to rev it hard to start it and I think this must be cripplng for the engine...

AndySil
18-01-2009, 12:55 AM
Thanks for your response.

Sorry to hear your about to pester £200ish on a replacement carburettor.

I reckon the 2E2 is fantastic when working right.
It's not the actual carb that is at fault half the time it's all the supply lines i.e. sufficient vacuum with no perished pipes, reliable 12 volt power supply to all components and constant hot running water to pamper the automatic choke unit.
In fact servicing a 2E2, to quote Charlie Higson, "is like making love to a beautiful woman".

I've been trying to cure the flat spot problem and to make the engine run more stable at tick over.
I've had a good day today. I broke off one of those small plastic tubes on the main non-return valve coming from the brake servo, a long time ago and patched it up by using a screw to blank off the hole.
I managed to find a replacement one from a scrap yard and fitted it on today. Not an easy job because the vacuum pipe fits into the brake servo right behind the brake fluid reservoir and it took an awful lot of pressure to remove it.
Fitting the replacement went a lot easier thanks to a dab of Vaseline.
Also replaced the flange gasket that the carb sits on. The old one seemed to be wet with fuel even after tightening the carb mounting bolts.
Anyway it runs a little slow at tick-over when fully warmed up, but I think a definite improvement all round.
Flat spot is less pronounced and engine generally more stable.
Now I need to work on getting the secondary throttle to work efficiently. I noticed when I lifted the carb off that the port looked quite black and oily where the throttle flap closes.
Any ideas anyone?

towcestervag
18-01-2009, 01:53 AM
ive got workshop manual for 2e2 carb details are for last of the mk1 golf but the bits are the same i can email details if you think they may help

macmillions
18-01-2009, 04:45 PM
I wish I had the know-how of how to strip down a carb. I imagine it would save me a few quid! I've had my girlfriends dad adjust the idle speed and tweak the jetting, but to no avail. I've been trying Redex persistantly since owning the car (Nov 07) to see if it would make a difference over time, but the results are negligeable. So I thought, as I can afford one now, its time to convert.

I know 2nd hand Webers are cheaper, but as my car has only done so few miles, I feel I should splash out on a new one and hope the car lasts another 100k!

RolfTheGolf
18-01-2009, 07:22 PM
towcestervag's offer of the workshop manual will probably be a mighty useful one - Dad has been looking at it and thinks he will tackle Rolf's carb when he (Dad, not Rolf) comes back from Germany. It's really well detailed.

AndySil
18-01-2009, 08:52 PM
I've not really come across the problem you’re having with your car. I appreciate what your doing but just out of interest, when the 2E2 carbs play up, it's usually that they are revving to high on start-up.
Yours seems to have the opposite symptom, that it won't run unless revved.
Is the carb dirty when you remove the air box and look down into the ports?
Sounds like it’s blocked up to me. Is there any mayonnaise in side the air box or oil trickling through the breather pipe?

macmillions
18-01-2009, 08:59 PM
Was that post directed at me?
Because if so, I have checked down the ports and it seems clear enough. The butterfly valve is also free to move.
I have often toyed with the idea of pouring Redex directly into the carb whilst the engine is running as the bottle suggests, but some of my workmates have warned me that I may lose my eyebrows! So I'm too scared to try it lol!:o
All the pipes appear clear too, and all vacuum hoses are intact. I can only assume that my choke is naffed.

kenney
18-01-2009, 09:09 PM
Hi There is a rubber ring between the intake manifold and the head.Through time this ring swells up and stops the coolant circulation,which then makes the waxstat inoperable and this causes quite a few problems

AndySil
18-01-2009, 09:17 PM
When you have the air-box off with the engine warm and running the choke flap should be fully open. Is it?
Or try the same when the engine is cold. Get someone to keep the engine from stalling during tick over. The choke flap should be partially open now. Is it?
Also, is the auto choke housing getting hot as the engine warms up?

P.S.Thanks for the warm-air pipe offer.

macmillions
18-01-2009, 10:16 PM
Urm...
Pass...

I'll have to get someone at work to help me with this, as my girlfriend wont let me have the car until weds :(

I'll let you know how I get on, as I would ideally like to avoid shelling out hundreds on a new carb if its something simple thats wrong with it. Although, I did post on here ages ago about something that used to happen, but hasn't done it in about a year...

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=32790

and this was the advice given by the man himself...

SO... i think its probably not worth me replacing bits left right and centre, as I would have to get a garage to do it, as I know noubt about these thnigs... and therefore the coss would be monumental compared to getting a Weber.

Also, no probs about the hose. :beerchug:

AndySil
18-01-2009, 11:36 PM
I've checked out your old thread and getting a better picture now.
I take onboard everything Crasher says, he's our guru after all.
I'm just trying to help you check a few things that may not cost you much money, more time and patience than anything. It could be that the choke flap is staying closed too long and causing it to flood. I actually disconnected the choke on mine for a while just to eliminate one problem and see what else was happening. Otherwise it's quite difficult to sus out the symptoms.
Let me know how you get on.

AndySil
24-01-2009, 01:06 AM
Well I've come to a cul-de-sac now.
The engine is running really smooth from cold start 1600rpm down to 800rpm when warm. (It used to start at 2000 for a few seconds and then drop to 1600 then slowly down to 800).

The problem I have now is that as soon as the engine gets up to normal temperature it dies everytime I stop at an island or if I take my foot off the accelerator. (heard this somewhere before?)
Also there is a slight flat spot when I start off, which can cause the engine to stall if not enough revs are applied.
This is just pottering around locally and in town traffic, so I really don't think it is icing up. I don't get any 'running on' symptoms.
It's not the waxstat either because I made a tool to replace the waxstat so I could set it up properly at 800rpm tickover when hot.
The engine stalls in exactly the same way with the special tool inplace or the waxstat.

Could it be a vacuum loss somewhere?
Can anyone offer me some ideas. It's so frustrating, it's nearly there almost perfect but not yet!

macmillions
24-01-2009, 10:22 AM
Mine hasn't done it in about a year now. It seemed to stop doing it after i used Redex a few times, and I did also change my air filter and check all my vacuum hoses (some of which were split at the joins.) This seemed to help me. I assume you've done most of this yourself.

kenney
24-01-2009, 12:20 PM
Hi The waxstat is only to keep the engine at a specified rpm on idle, during the warm up period,it has mothing to do with the idle adjustment.First use some easy start, spray around the carb to make sure there is none of the vacuum hoses leaking.Before adjusting the carb,make sure the timing is correct.To adjust the carb properly you really need to be able to analyse the exhaust fumes.Anyway on the RHS of the carb you have a large vacuum box with a rod in the center,this is the idle adjusting.At the rear of the box you will find a screw(14mm spanner)this is the adjusting screw for idle,(screw in for faster) 950rpm.In the center of the carb you will see a 2cm high housing, in the center of this, is the mixture screw, The idea is to syncronize the adjustment with the mixture screw and the idle screw to acheive the right mixture and the right idle speed.The housing for the mixture screw can be removed from the carb and the jet taken out and cleaned ,they tend to get blocked.If the carb mixture is not correct you will never get the engine to idle properly

macmillions
24-01-2009, 02:29 PM
Come to think of it, now you hve mentioned that my workmate and I tightened the throttle cable using that screw and now it idles slightly faster (1100rpm, a bit fast I know, but I'm not bothered). As you have explained to me that all quite simply I shall rummage around and see if I can adjust the mixture as I think its running slightly rich, as you can smell petrol if driving behind me.

Also, it has developed a hole in the exhaust by the backbox! :aargh4:
That probably doesn't help either with the back-pressure being all out of sorts!

AndySil
24-01-2009, 03:03 PM
Hi Kenney

Thanks for your input. These carbs are hellish complicated, so I will try and answer your comments one by one. Here goes….

The waxstat is only to keep the engine at a specified rpm on idle, during the warm up period,it has mothing to do with the idle adjustment.
The waxstat is working fine, I only mentioned that I had made the special tool with a specified spindle length, ie 8.15mm to make the engine run at 800rpm, which it does.

First use some easy start, spray around the carb to make sure there is none of the vacuum hoses leaking.
This sounds interesting, I am not sure what you mean by ‘easy start’, is this a product?

Before adjusting the carb,make sure the timing is correct.To adjust the carb properly you really need to be able to analyse the exhaust fumes.Anyway on the RHS of the carb you have a large vacuum box with a rod in the center,this is the idle adjusting.At the rear of the box you will find a screw(14mm spanner)this is the adjusting screw for idle,(screw in for faster) 950rpm.
I presume you are talking about the throttle plate actuator. As I understand this adjustment you are talking about is only for obtaining 3000rpm with the vacuum line taken off at the T piece just behind it. Once its adjusted for 3000rpm that’s it, you don’t need to go there any more. When the engine is hot, the throttle plate actuator is in the deceleration position (ie push rod totally withdrawn), in fact when in this position it should not actually be touching the throttle stop screw (should be able to get a piece of paper in between).


In the center of the carb you will see a 2cm high housing, in the center of this, is the mixture screw, The idea is to syncronize the adjustment with the mixture screw and the idle screw to acheive the right mixture and the right idle speed.The housing for the mixture screw can be removed from the carb and the jet taken out and cleaned ,they tend to get blocked.If the carb mixture is not correct you will never get the engine to idle properly

I will try and clean these jets that you mentioned. As I only do short journeys, there is quite a lot of condensation created through the air box from the engine breather pipe, and from time to time, there is a fair amount of mayonnaise, so yes these jets probably could do with a clean. I have had trouble with the switch over valve (the square one). I had to repair some wiring by making a new plug for this unit and I thought I had cured the problem. For a while, it would start at 2000rpm at cold and stay there instead of dropping down to about 1600rpm. I would have to touch the wiring and it would drop down to the 1600rpm. Recently its starting from 1600rpm, so not quite sure what’s happened here, but I suspect that the problems I have are generally vacuum related. What say you?!

kenney
24-01-2009, 04:20 PM
Hi Easy start is a spray which is used to detect leaks,The proper procedure is as you stated, when cold,runs around 2000-2500rpm for about 6 secs then stabilizes arond 1600rpm and so gradually to around 900rpm.The throttle plate actuator,i call, the 3 or 4 point vacuum box depending on if the vehicle is auto or manual.You say once the adjustment is adjusted for 3000 rpm then there is no further adjusting,this is not so.As i said the screw to the rear of the vacuum box is the adjusting screw for idle

AndySil
25-01-2009, 02:30 PM
OK Kenney,
Thanks for your help. By the way, my car is manual gear box. What's happening at the moment is this:
When I start the engine up, it runs at about 1600rpm (As I said, it doesnt go to 2000rpm and then drop to 1600rpm any more, as it should). Then the engine speed gradually comes down to 800rpm, so the waxstat is OK.
When I am driving along and the engine temperature is hot (normal), its OK for a while then you can feel the accelerator pedal push back up, which is the '3/4 vacuum box' going into the decleration position (push rod totally withdrawn). I can see whats happening now, this is allowing the throttle to go back too far and stall the engine. I have tried your recommendation of adjusting the nut (13mm) on the back of the 3/4 unit and have tried several turns in both directions and it makes no difference to the idle speed at all. I can just about get the engine ticking over at 850rpm before the throttle closes completely, to see that the push rod is nowhere near the throttle lever.
Can you help me any further please?

kenney
25-01-2009, 05:12 PM
Hi If the rod is nowhere near the throttle lever,when on idle,as you say adjusting the screw will make no difference.I feel you have got the vacuum hoses in the wrong place,or there is a fault with the regulating valve,(the small black box).Have a look at all the hoses and make sure they are in the proper place.There is a way around this problem,which i have done a few times,but involves disconnecting the 3-4point vacuum box.which is only a load of rubbish anyway.

kenney
25-01-2009, 06:49 PM
It is a while since i worked on these carbs,i used to know them like the back of my hand.Anyway,one thing comes to mind,which caused various problems.The wires which run to the regulating valve and the thermo switch valve, tend to be very brittle with age,(a bit like myself)and break.Pull the rubber protectors back and check the wiring,iam almost sure the wire is broken.If not, then you will need to check what kind of signal is coming to the valve.

AndySil
25-01-2009, 08:14 PM
We have success!

This afternoon I got the Pierburg connection schedule plan and armed with my spare 2e2 (complete with all the vacuum pipes), compared the pipe routes with the one on the car.
It's really quite tight around the back of that carb and if I hadn't got the spare carb to compare connections, I would have probably got the carb off altogether to do the job.
You are absolutely spot on with your remedy, it WAS the vacuum pipes that were the wrong way round. In my rush to fit on the new rubber carb flange last week (fighting against the light), I must have put them back on the wrong way.
It was the two pipes at the back of the carb. One goes to the 3/4 point unit and the other goes to the temperature regulator on the air-box.

Regarding the wiring to the thermo time valve and switch etc, I have repaired them twice before but suspect that there may still be a break lower down in the loom, because what’s happening is when I start the engine from cold the revs are 2000. Sometimes the TTV works and takes the revs down to 1600 after about 10 seconds but other times it keeps running at 2000rpm until I touch the wiring or something near to it. (quite difficult to tell whether it goes back to normal by coincidence or by me touching the wiring)
We’ll see what happens tomorrow morning anyway.

I'm so pleased to have fixed it. Engine stalling has got to be one of the worst faults to have to endure.
When I test drove it a little earlier, (dare I say it), there was no sign of the 'flat spot' either but too early to cross that one off yet.

Thanks very much for your help.

AndySil
28-01-2009, 12:20 AM
Hi Kenney,
I have this intermittent problem now with the solenoid change over valve (I think).
Can you recommend the best way to test the switches because although I'm getting 12 volts at the plugs, I'm not sure that there is enough current there to make the solenoid work. i.e. suspect wiring.
When I started up from cold this morning, it started at 2000rpm but instead of dropping down to about 1600 after 10 secs. or so, it continued increasing revs up to 3000 which is a bit cruel on an old engine.
I touched a few cables and the solenoid clicked and engine speed dropped back down to 1400rpm.
Any thoughts?

kenney
28-01-2009, 05:05 PM
Check the earth wire on top of the carb,it runs to the rocker cover Need some info. (1) .Look at position 22 on the fuse carrier and see if there is a relay. (2) What colour are the wires running to the thermo switch?.(3) What colour are the wires running to the solinoid?

AndySil
28-01-2009, 10:21 PM
Earth wire seems OK although will crimp it tighter.
I have no relay in position 22.
The only relays I have in are positions:- 2/8/10/11/12/15/ and 16.
The wire colours are:-

solenoid/switch over valve(square one) =black/white and brown/black.

thermo time switch( round one)=black/yellow/ and brown.
I had to solder in some new wire here. Does it matter about polarity?
Hope info is of some help.
Thanks for your help.

kenney
28-01-2009, 11:06 PM
On the solenoid the polartity matters,if you look on the sides they are marked + and- ,the thermo switch does not matter.The black/brown is the positive wire.

AndySil
28-01-2009, 11:56 PM
That's OK then, I've only rewired the thermo time switch so far.
Perhaps the solenoid / switch over valve needs rewiring too.
Did my info about the relay etc offer you any more clues?

This problem of starting up at 2000+rpm and not dropping to 1600 etc. is worse in the very cold weather.
It happens less in warmer weather.

kenney
29-01-2009, 12:24 AM
It would seen you have a wiring problem since when you touch the wire the fault is rectified,As i said the wires are very brittle and break.One thing you can check is the function of the thermo switch,remove both hoses and attach a hose to the switch,which you can suck through. When cold the switch is open,then apply 12v and after 10 secs the switch should be closed i.e you can't suck through it.

AndySil
29-01-2009, 08:04 PM
Thank you Kenney.
OK I 've run those checks on the thermo switch and it tests good.

I have made a more secure fixing of the earth strap from the carb to the engine cam cover.

I have also fitted a new piece of flexible hose (thanks to macmillions who supplied it)onto a replacement, used Mann & Hummel airbox complete with a good mushroom valve.

It will be interesting to see how the car operates with this cold weather on it's way!

I have tried to check the various carb heaters also today.
The choke heater was working fine from cold and it switched off when hot, as checked with a lamp tester in series with the 12v supply.
I tried the same test with the throttle body heater. The lamp stayed on all the time even when hot. Not sure if this correct.
Is this heater supposed to stay on or should it switch off via another thermo switch?

The manifold heater(hedgehog) seems to draw current but does not feel hot when you touch the manifold body underneath the carb. The 12v supply does go off when warm though.
Again any comments gratefully received.

kenney
29-01-2009, 08:38 PM
The manifold heater element is controlled via a relay,which in turn is controlled by a thermo contact.The throttle body heating element has a permanent,ignition supply,it runs on the same line as the thermo switch.

ron_dave
30-01-2009, 06:05 PM
HTH , found it when I was searching for a carb....



http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.esvj.be/websites/mk2_golf_jetta/images/brands22.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D124945%26page%3D2&usg=__FcTkM_1XWxAiFGXs7GTYImdAayA=&h=477&w=619&sz=12&hl=en&start=21&um=1&tbnid=Rv6vgtotRAp2WM:&tbnh=105&tbnw=136&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpierburg%2Bcarb%26start%3D20%26ndsp%3 D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

AndySil
31-01-2009, 01:34 PM
Thanks for the link ron_dave, very interesting. At least I haven't had to mess with the inlet manifold and replace the O ring this time.
(Not a job I'd try to tackle, with the risk of bolt shearing etc.)
I had similar symptoms though, with the choke housing taking ages to warm up.
I found that in my case, it wasn't the O ring but the long thin bendy water pipe that goes from the right hand side of engine round to the thermostat, in the bottom front of the engine.
It was full of rust particles due to me not using proper coolant and topping up with water instead.
I cleared the pipe out and flushed the whole engine out and now the choke housing gets very, very hot!
It just goes to show that it's not ALWAYS the O ring scenario!

AndySil
31-01-2009, 01:48 PM
Hi kenney,
thanks to you people, I'm getting there!
I've adjusted the idle speed with your instructions and it's running much more stable now.


I tested the hedgehog heater by using the test lamp method. When ignition is switched on, the lamp comes on and then when engine starts to warm up, it goes out.
There's no sign of any heat coming from there though. The only heat is from the exhaust manifold. Not sure why it's drawning current when it's not working, unless it's shorting out. Would have thought supply cable would be getting hot in that case though. (It's drawing about 9amps)

kenney
31-01-2009, 02:11 PM
I don't think you can feel the heat from it.If it is drawing 9amps then it is working.You can check the resistance,when cold it should read 33 -70 ohm

AndySil
31-01-2009, 03:59 PM
Well, at the moment the resistance measures 3.3ohms and with the engine running the current being drawn is 4.8amps.

There used to be another heater(red) on the front of the carb. It was above the normal throttle body heater and it had a screw thread rather than a small screw and bracket sort of fixing.
That one became O/C so I took it off.

AndySil
02-02-2009, 09:15 PM
Well, I braved the weather his morning, a good test for the car.
It started first time (as usual, never lets me down in this respect).
It started at 2000+ and after about 10 secs dropped down to 1600.
Then I got to a traffic island where I had to stop. I pulled away and it stalled (flat spot).
It took a couple of goes to get it going and then seemed to be flooded as it struggled to stabilise, but then it went up to 2000+ again for a 100 yards then dropped back to its decline and eventually to normal idle speed.
I'm going to have to check that push-on connector to the square switchover valve again and just hope it's something as simple as crimping the spade clips a little tighter.
Regarding the flat spot, I thought I'd cured it, but it still catches me out sometimes.
I've replaced the carb rubber mounting flange so it's not that.
I replaced the accelerator pump injection nozzle for the primary port, but the replacement part was for the 1.6 carb version , not the 1.8 ltr.
Does anyone think this would cause the flat spot symptom?
Thanks for any help.

Crasher
02-02-2009, 09:18 PM
This may have been mentioned before but how have you set the ignition timing? What make of distributor is fitted?

kenney
02-02-2009, 09:47 PM
Are you sure you are not having an icing problem? One other thing which can cause a bit of bother is the O ring around the manifold heating element,you can check this by spraying start gas around the element,and see if the rpm changes.

AndySil
02-02-2009, 11:47 PM
I retarded the timing to the point where it doesn't pink. (Hardly hi-tech I know, but I don't have the know how to set it properly).
The distributor has a brown top so I presume its a Bosch. The revs go down quite a lot when I remove the vacuum so I assume the distributor is OK.
I'm pretty sure it's not an icing problem as it starts up OK after stalling. Then no problems.
I was wondering if the earth from the battery could be at fault but surely the starter motor wouldn't crank the engine if it was that.
I've never used the "start gas" you mentioned, perhaps you could give me a brand name or possible stockist.
Thanks to all.

ron_dave
03-02-2009, 05:40 AM
Can someone post a picture of the correct position of the vaccum hose? I suspect mines wrong....

Crasher
03-02-2009, 09:58 AM
I retarded the timing to the point where it doesn't pink. (Hardly hi-tech I know, but I don't have the know how to set it properly).
The distributor has a brown top so I presume its a Bosch. The revs go down quite a lot when I remove the vacuum so I assume the distributor is OK.
I'm pretty sure it's not an icing problem as it starts up OK after stalling. Then no problems.
I was wondering if the earth from the battery could be at fault but surely the starter motor wouldn't crank the engine if it was that.
I've never used the "start gas" you mentioned, perhaps you could give me a brand name or possible stockist.
Thanks to all.

To be able to go any further, you need the ignition timing setting accurately, that is 18° BTDC @ 750 rpm with the vacuum hose connected AND with the knowledge that the vacuum advance capsule is not leaking, which from what you say it doesn’t sound like it is. A lot of these cars have Ducellier distributors which are very prone to vacuum advance capsule failure. If the capsule is faulty, it is impossible to set the ignition timing.


Can someone post a picture of the correct position of the vaccum hose? I suspect mines wrong....

What engine code do you have? Yours will be US spec.

kenney
03-02-2009, 12:42 PM
The battery earth has nothing to do with your problem.You say when it stopped, and then when you started it, the engine was running at 2000 + for about a hundred yards,and then stabalized to idle speed,this indicates the themo switch is loosing power.The fact that it stalls, is another matter.Iam thinking if it could be the float needle, which is causing it to flood.Regarding icing the engine will start again,after a couple of minutes,and you will smell petrol.

AndySil
03-02-2009, 01:10 PM
Thanks Crasher,
I've just booked car in for Friday to have timing set. It is running @800rpm at present but I can adjust to 750rpm if you think necessary.

Another thing that's on my mind is that I had to replace the accelerator pump injection nozzle in the primary port( the old one was dripping fuel when idling because the tiny ball-bearing had come out), but the replacement part was for the 1.6 carb version , not the 1.8 ltr.
Could this be causing the 'flat spot'?

AndySil
03-02-2009, 01:20 PM
The battery earth has nothing to do with your problem.You say when it stopped, and then when you started it, the engine was running at 2000 + for about a hundred yards,and then stabalized to idle speed,this indicates the themo switch is loosing power.The fact that it stalls, is another matter.Iam thinking if it could be the float needle, which is causing it to flood.Regarding icing the engine will start again,after a couple of minutes,and you will smell petrol.



Hi Kenney,
I'm pretty sure It's not an icing issue. There's no faultering when it stalls and no smell of petrol when restarting.
What happens is when I pull up at an island or halt sign, the engine is idling OK, it's when I go to move off agian that the engine will sometimes stall.

I did replace the float needle with a 2E2 service kit and I replaced the throttle injection nozzle and rubber washer with a used one from the 1.6 ltr version. (mine's a 1.8ltr)

Crasher
03-02-2009, 02:21 PM
Holding at 2000 rpm and then suddenly dropping down is normally a problem with the Thermo Time Valve. I have not seen many of these fail, I usually find the wiring is at fault on the plug. Has this been bodged in the time disapproved of manner using speaker terminals or is it original? If it is good, check there is battery live there with the engine running.

kenney
03-02-2009, 03:29 PM
(I replaced the throttle injection nozzle) If this is not working properly you will gat a flat spot.Can you see there is fuel being injected as the throttle opens?

AndySil
03-02-2009, 04:02 PM
Holding at 2000 rpm and then suddenly dropping down is normally a problem with the Thermo Time Valve. I have not seen many of these fail, I usually find the wiring is at fault on the plug. Has this been bodged in the time disapproved of manner using speaker terminals or is it original? If it is good, check there is battery live there with the engine running.

I have replaced the clips on this plug and soldered a new piece of wire in as the old one had fractured and become O/C. But yes, it has to be bodged because there is no replacement as far as I know.
I will do the battery check later on.
Cheers

Crasher
03-02-2009, 04:46 PM
Plug 443 972 992 £1

Cover 447 919 141 £3

Single wire piece 000 979 105 or 106, £1.30 odd each, come as a bag of five.

AndySil
03-02-2009, 06:32 PM
Thanks Crasher,

When I replaced the wires, I bought two new spade clips to replace the ones that were in the plug, then soldered the wire to the clips, then refitted the clips to the original plug.
Good job I thought, but obviously not.

I haven't been able to find these part numbers either with GSF or ETKA
Could you tell me where I could get them please?

Crasher
03-02-2009, 06:48 PM
From any VW dealer, they are on ETKA on the wiring diagram for the late 89 model on page 259-01 and in the electrical connection elements section, page 979-40. They are mentioned on the 88 but not illustrated.

AndySil
04-02-2009, 07:47 PM
[quote=Crasher;307623]

To be able to go any further, you need the ignition timing setting accurately, that is 18° BTDC @ 750 rpm with the vacuum hose connected AND with the knowledge that the vacuum advance capsule is not leaking, which from what you say it doesn’t sound like it is. A lot of these cars have Ducellier distributors which are very prone to vacuum advance capsule failure. If the capsule is faulty, it is impossible to set the ignition timing.

Hi Crasher,

Is this timing setting for leaded or unleaded petrol?
I normally use standard unleaded by the way, not super unleaded.
Thanks again.

Crasher
04-02-2009, 10:00 PM
That setting is for 95RON fuel, lead is not an issue and has not been on ANY VAG car produced since 1976. You can use 97RON or 99RON if you like but it is a waste of money.

AndySil
04-02-2009, 11:34 PM
(I replaced the throttle injection nozzle) If this is not working properly you will gat a flat spot.Can you see there is fuel being injected as the throttle opens?

Kenney, sorry I've not been back to you, but confined to quarters this week with bad head cold and achy body. Will get out and have a look at the carb at the weekend, weather permitting.
The throttle nozzle on it, is off a 1.6 (027 129 015G) 2E2 carb, which is 50(i)size,what ever that means.
It should be 35(i) for my carb, which is a 127 129 015 Carb (for the 1.8)
Will this make any difference do you think?

kenney
05-02-2009, 10:45 AM
I don't think you will notice it,anyway the amount injected can be adjusted.the main thing is that the fuel is being injected as soon as the throttle starts to open,and you need to check this while the engine is running on idle.(certain reason)

AndySil
06-02-2009, 08:51 PM
This may have been mentioned before but how have you set the ignition timing? What make of distributor is fitted?

OK I've had the timing tested this afternoon. I got the engine running at normal temperature @750rpm with the vacuum pipe on. We took out the plastic sealing plug from the top of the gearbox and applied a strobe light to the flywheel gear. It's smack on the mark, (ie 18 deg BTDC). So my guess work was right when I retarded the ignition until pinking ceased.
It was too far advanced before, hence the pinking. So to retard it I unscrewed the bolt to the distributor and turned it clockwise. After a few road tests. Got it right.
It is a Bosch distributor and if I take off the vacuum pipe whilst idling, the speed is reduced to about 650rpm approx.
So yes something is working surely?

AndySil
06-02-2009, 09:06 PM
I don't think you will notice it,anyway the amount injected can be adjusted.the main thing is that the fuel is being injected as soon as the throttle starts to open,and you need to check this while the engine is running on idle.(certain reason)

Thanks for your pointers here Kenney.
I did a check on this today and with the airbox removed and looking down the primary port there was good instant response from the throttle nozzle as soon as accelorator is applied. The harder the throttle was opened , the moe fuel was pumped, so everything is looking good here.
You say that the nozzle is adjustable. Is that the adjuster(phillips screw) near the throttle lever which has + or - on it? If so I have that biased that towards the + at present.

Crasher
06-02-2009, 09:15 PM
So, to prevent myself an Kenny reading back now we know the ignition timing is bang on, what is the running issue now?

AndySil
08-02-2009, 12:48 AM
OK we have the timing right and the throttle nozzle appears to be functioning correctly. When the engine is warm (5-10 mins) the tick over is 750rpm and everything is fine, even the flat spot has disappeared at the moment.
When I started up from cold today the engine fired up @2000rpm.
The revs didn’t drop down to the next stage (ie1600so I drove off .
The next time I pulled up, it had increased to 3000. I continued driving another mile or so, by which time it was doing 3500+. It wasn’t until I had the engine up to normal temperature (about 3 miles) that it dropped to 750rpm. I then did some shopping and started back home and everything was perfect.
Could a faulty wire on the TTV unit cause ALL these symptoms...what do you think Kenney?

kenney
08-02-2009, 01:20 PM
The fact that when the engine is cold you have a 2000 rpm,and not 3000rpm (for 10 secs) means there is something wrong.(quote)(The next time I pulled up, it had increased to 3000)It is the thermo switch valve which controls this function.From the moment the thermo switch valve closes,(10secs) it is the waxstat which governs the engine idle speed.It would seem the thermo switch valve is not functioning as it should,be it a vacuum or electrical fault i don't know.There is only one way to find out,run a new ignition supply to the thermo switch valve(round black valve ) and the regulating valve (square black valve)and or if you have spares,replace them. Have you interfered with the adjusting screw on the throttle,the one which the actuator pushes?

kenney
08-02-2009, 02:21 PM
I mentiond in my first post about a rubber ring which is between the inlet manifold and the head,which swells up,and stops the warm coolant circulating through the waxstat and the choke element.The choke element is ignition fed,after a certain time a thermo switch cuts the power to the choke and it is the varm coolant,circulating through the element,which keeps the choke off.If the varm coolant is not circulating through the element,the choke will come on,and stay on untill the ignition is turned off and then on.This could be one of the reasons the idle speed is high when the engine is warm,as the waxstat will also cool down.I had this in mind, when you said previously,you came to a junction,and the engine stopped and you smelt petrol. If the engine should stall for you again,have a quick look at the choke flap,and see if it is open or closed,i'am thinking you might have to faults which are not related.

Crasher
08-02-2009, 06:04 PM
That is a problem with the TTV, probably a loss of power. Engine heat is the only thing making it turn off.

AndySil
09-02-2009, 11:15 PM
You have given me quite a lot to go on there.
It's been as good as gold today,(weather not so cold at the moment ) although still trying to stall when I pull away when its still cold.
It started up at 2000. 10secs dropped to 1600. then seems to slightly climb up to nearly 2000 before gradually falling to normal idle.
I thought it was odd that, the other day when I told you it started at 2000 and stayed there. Then next time I pulled up it was doing 3000 then 3500. Almost the same effect as if you had taken the vacuum pipe off the back of the 3/4 point unit. It hasn’t done this for a long time.
Regarding the O ring syndrome, I don't think I have a problem with that now as it soon gets bloody hot! That's not to say that there could still be problems with the choke coming off as you say. I found that there was a lot of rusty scale in the water pipe that connects to the heating hoses and down to the water pump. Due to me using fresh water instead of coolant. This is what stopped my waxstat and choke unit from getting hot. So this proves that it’s not always the O ring that needs replacing. I think that one of the main reasons that the O ring fails is when the coolant level is allowed to get too low. This cooks the O ring good and proper.
Thanks again for your pointers. Shall have a go as soon as weather permits

Crasher
09-02-2009, 11:30 PM
Have you checked the choke unit? Mark the body across to maintain alignment and remove the choke unit, if the internals fall on the floor you need a new one. Setting the choke up, especially a new one, can be a trial. There are rich and lean alignment marks on the body and element but these are way out. I set it up so the flap is just about closed but not with any tension applied to the flap. Then I run it up to warm and set up the waxstat, idle speed and CO and then leave it until the next day. I press the accelerator down once and then check the flap position again to make sure it is only just closed.

AndySil
12-02-2009, 10:01 PM
I have adjusted the choke following your instructions today.
I haven't taken the choke right off yet as I 'm pretty sure it is intact but I agree with what you said in last message that the alignment marks are out as I already had the choke adjusted away from the factory marks on the choke body because there was too much choke otherwise.
I have rotated the choke case still further though, to get the desired setting "with the choke flap just about closed".
Question:_
When the engine is cold with choke flap just closed and ignition is switched on, should the flap begin to open slightly, because of the choke heater? If so, mine doesn’t.
Will check your settings again tomorrow and make sure the flap is just closed. There was no sign of the flat spot today. Which is good news.
I have had real intermittent problems today with the engine revs.
It was going really smooth, no flat spots, no bucking etc, as the engine temperature came up to normal. Then I was aware that engine speed was beginning to race. It was doing about 3500-4000rpm then after a minute it would drop back down to normal (750rpm).
This kept happening, but it always happened in an inconvenient place, so that I couldn't stop and take a peek under the bonnet to see what was going on. It was stalling on a couple of occasions too.
During the last 3 miles of my journey today, the engine was racing away and had to drive in 2nd and 3rd gears to use up the revs, but as soon as I got near home, the revs went back to normal so I wasn’t able to get the bonnet up again and have a look at what was going on. It has to be the 3/4 point unit that is effecting it though, I'm pretty sure of that.
Anyway, I collected the wires and plugs from VW today to repair the Thermo Time valve and Solenoid valve. (Thanks for forwarding me the part numbers Crasher).
Tomorrow, I shall have a go at soldering them in place.
I’d be grateful for any of your comments for the above.
Thanks very much.

Crasher
12-02-2009, 10:13 PM
If the choke is getting 12v and the carb body earthed, then the choke should slowly start to come off over the period of a few minuets, I think the internals of the element are shot. Your carb should be an 027 129 015 and so on the list for 1988 is carb number 1 and therefore the choke unit would be 027 129 191 K. From VW these are around £140 but from GSF through Pierburg they are around half that.

The 3-4 point unit is only responding to commands and that sounds like the TTV opening when it shouldn’t. When you solder the new wires in, make sure that the soldered joins are held so they cannot move.

AndySil
12-02-2009, 11:18 PM
Everytime I have taken the airbox off the carb and when engine is hot, the choke flap has always been fully open so I'm happy enough with that. Your fine tuning instructions will have improved the warm up period still more and hopefully solved the dead spot problem during this.
I am getting 12 volts at the choke heater supply and the element is giving a reading too so it should be OK. I have a couple of spares if I find it doesn't work. Even if the heater wasn't working, I thought there was a copper spring coil inside the choke housing that opens the choke flap, affected by the coolant getting hotter. Am I right?
The main worry at the moment is to get this TTV and 3/4 point unit working.
Thanks again for your help.



When you solder the new wires in, make sure that the soldered joins are held so they cannot move.
Not quite sure what you mean here. Are you suggesting that they may fracture or something?

I have got the replacement wire with clips attached, as you suggested.
I shall cut off the old wire and plug and then solder the new to the existing harness, then use some shrink wrap to finish off.
Is this OK?

AndySil
17-02-2009, 07:07 PM
.It would seem the thermo switch valve is not functioning as it should,be it a vacuum or electrical fault i don't know.There is only one way to find out,run a new ignition supply to the thermo switch valve(round black valve ) and the regulating valve (square black valve)and or if you have spares,replace them. Have you interfered with the adjusting screw on the throttle,the one which the actuator pushes?

Hi Kenney,
I have now replaced the wires and clips for the TTV (round black valve)(and thank you Crasher for supplying the part numbers). This has made all the difference and stabilized everything. I had replaced the wiring and clips previously but as I have had the carb on and off so many times I suppose it just deteriorated.
I am totally amazed and baffled that on wire could cause so much havoc .i.e revs up to 2000 when cold, then up to 3500+ then even stalling. I thought the TTV valve caused the revs to drop from 2000 to 1600 by making the regulating valve (square one ) open or close only.
Anyway It works great now.
I have made a waxstat replacement tool as illustrated in the Haynes Carb book. It is a useful tool as on the one side the pin is sticking out 2mm for testing cold fast idle. On the other side the pin is just over 8mm for testing the hot slow idle speed.
Now when I have the engine hot and test the idle speed for 800rpm, I struggle to get the engine to run slower than 1000rpm.
Kenney, you asked above if I had ever "interfered withe the adjusting screw on the throttle, the one which the actuator pushes".
The answer is yes. Now can you tell me if this is the cause of my 1000 idle speed. I have got the timing set spot on, by the way.
Thanks for any help.

Crasher
17-02-2009, 10:08 PM
The choke sounds like it is working OK. The warning over the soldered joints is because they can crack.

Get the engine hot with a wax stat that you know is pushing the throttle quadrant all the way out. Then release the 4-mm hex on the quadrant and the idle should change. Then set the idle speed by altering the 13-mm spanner nut on the back of the 3-4 point unit until the idle is 750-0rpm, then hold the throttle quadrant still with a screwdriver and tighten the 4-mm hex key.

AndySil
01-03-2009, 12:48 AM
At last I seem to be making some headway with this 2E2 and enjoying driving again. Thank you Crasher for your help yet again.
First of all I got the engine really nice and warm and running and then to get the fast idle speed right (3000rpm)I removed the bottom vacuum pipe from the 3/4 point unit which pushes the piston fully out and overides the waxstat.
Mine was running at 3500rpm, so to slow it down I adjusted the throttle stop screw. Unscrewed it (with pliers)until I got the prescribed 3000rpm. The tricky bit is to get the vacuum pipe back on whilst the engine is still running otherwise the engine runs on and it’s difficult to stop it.
Having done that I found that the slow idle was wrong so I've followed Crashers instructions above and now I have the correct idle speed of 750rpm.
The next morning I started it up and it ran at 2000rpm for about 5 secs. then dropped down to 1600 ish which feels just right.
All this with the timing checked has made it run so much smoother now.

On my 2E2 I have what I thought was a second throttle body heater. It is located just above that one. I always thought that it was a heater, and that it didn’t work as it was O/C when tested on a meter.
(The part number is 191919521A)
After cleaning it I discovered that it has 140deg max. 6-24v inscribed on it, so I then thought it could be a switch. After testing it in boiling water I discovered that it has a reading of around 4ohms. Does anyone know what its function is please. I can't imagine why you would need a heater when the temperature is at boiling point already.
I still have some work to do on the secondary throttle yet. There doesn't seem to be any vacuum at the stage II diaphragm. I assume the vacuum supply is the pipe coming from the choke pull down unit. Is this right?
I don't really understand why there is a need for the secondary throttle lever to be engaged via a vacuum driven diaphragm. Could it not work with a simple spring?
Thanks again for any help.

kenney
01-03-2009, 12:43 PM
I have never seen a second throttle body heater.Regarding the secondary throttle,there are two methods by which this functioned.On the first carbs,the secondary throttle diaphragm,is vacuum controlled,without a thermo valve,which means,no matter what the coolant temp is,with the main throttle in full open position,the second throttle opens. Depending on the coolant temp,on the later models there is a thermo valve on the choke element housing,which regulates the vacuum to the secondary throttle diaphragm.The diaphragm has nothing to do with the pull down unit.To check the function of the second stage,(you can not do this with the engine running)open the throttle fully,remove the hose from the diaphragm,and apply vacuum,(suck) and check if the diaphragm works.

Crasher
01-03-2009, 01:48 PM
191 919 521 A is not a heater, it is a thermo switch that triggers at 140°c to bring the cooling fan on speed 1 until the carb cools down or the time limit is exceeded. This is controlled by a relay on the fuse box. You can test this function by turning the ignition on and then off and then putting the wire that goes to the switch to an earth, the fan should run for up to 20 minutes. The 140°c trigger rating of the sensor has always bemused me as it comes on at temperatures much lower than that so I think 140°c Max means what is says and is the highest temp the sensor can take before failing. The function of this system is to prevent the carburettor boiling after shut down.

AndySil
01-03-2009, 06:40 PM
Regarding the secondary throttle,there are two methods by which this functioned.On the first carbs,the secondary throttle diaphragm,is vacuum controlled,without a thermo valve,which means,no matter what the coolant temp is,with the main throttle in full open position,the second throttle opens. To check the function of the second stage,(you can not do this with the engine running)open the throttle fully,remove the hose from the diaphragm,and apply vacuum,(suck) and check if the diaphragm works.


Mine is the former version (without a thermo valve). Yes the diaphragm works if I take the rubber pipe off the carb and suck and it will hold as long as you want so I think no problems with the diaphragm. I don't seem to be getting any vacuum at the stage II pick up. If I pull off the pipe to the unit it is possible to blow through, although it is restricted, but I expect it is a small drilling. It doesn't seem to be a straight drilling anyway, so not easy to clean out.
What I don’t understand is how the vacuum is created in the first place.Where is the vacuum created for the stage II unit?
Is it coming via the non-return valve?
If I start the engine and hold the leg of the stage II diaphram up and then rev it past half throttle it really roars , so I know the second stage throttle is not working as there is no vacuum to hold the diaphragm as I did holding it manually.
Any thoughts?

AndySil
01-03-2009, 06:49 PM
191 919 521 A is not a heater, it is a thermo switch that triggers at 140°c to bring the cooling fan on speed 1 until the carb cools down or the time limit is exceeded. This is controlled by a relay on the fuse box. You can test this function by turning the ignition on and then off and then putting the wire that goes to the switch to an earth, the fan should run for up to 20 minutes. The 140°c trigger rating of the sensor has always bemused me as it comes on at temperatures much lower than that so I think 140°c Max means what is says and is the highest temp the sensor can take before failing. The function of this system is to prevent the carburettor boiling after shut down.

Cheers Crasher- this is really enlightening for me and many others I feel sure. I had removed this thermo switch a couple of years ago, thinking it was a 2nd throttle body heater which had gone O/C. This explains why my cooling fan has only worked on the slow speed. So fan "speed 1" must be the fast speed then?

kenney
01-03-2009, 07:31 PM
As i said the second stage does not work unless the throttle is FULLY open,if you look to the right of the second stage housing (venturia)you will see a very small hole on the wall,which, internally in the carb runs to the pipe where the vacuum hose is connected.It is the down draft of the air which creates the vacuum. You can if you want hold the throttle FULLY open,with the engine running,(although i would not recommend,doing so)only then will you see it functioning.I would say if you can blow through the hose into the carb with a bit of resistance,and the diaphram holds the vacuum when you suck on it,then there is nothing wrong

Crasher
01-03-2009, 08:24 PM
Speed 1 is the slow speed. The fan is controlled by the temperature sensor on the radiator and this has two stages, one feeds to the fan though a resistor inside the fan and the other is direct. The feed from the fan run-on relay goes from the relay directly to the fan on the extra red/white wire to the fan connection. It is very rare for the fan to come onto speed 2, that is normally only required in extreme circumstances or if the first speed fails for any reason other than a totally failed fan.

LaurasG
15-09-2009, 12:17 PM
Hi, i'm having some problems with my carb. I posted it before here: http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=78778

However I'm going to update here, since it is thread for these carbs.
I have learned quite a lot about carbs last few days. So now i know my choke is (probably) working fine, since its closed then engine is cold and opens as engine gets warmer. But as soon as it opens engine stalls. Then, if I start engine agan it runs for 2 sec and then stops agan. If i pump gas pedal for some time it can run for like 10 sec or so (i think until it burns the petrol i pumped into carb) and stops agan. I have checked fulel flow to carb by removing fuel line from carb and starting the engine, it run for 2-3sec and filled 200ml glass, so i think fuel lines that go to carb are ok. I have also removed the jet used to adjust CO and washed it in petrol. Plese help.

Crasher
15-09-2009, 12:47 PM
What is your car?

LaurasG
15-09-2009, 01:32 PM
It is 1985 (maybe 1986) VW Golf 1.6

AndySil
15-09-2009, 01:51 PM
Hello, thanks for your post.

This sounds very familiar to me.
I see that you have some new vacuum hoses fitted. Maybe you have reassembled the two hoses on the back of the carburetor the wrong way round, thus making the throttle compensator non operative.
On the back of the carb there are two hoses very close together. One goes to the thermal sensor and the other to the throttle plate actuator.
Try swapping these two around on the back.
It's easy to connect these on the wrong way I did it myself and had the same stalling problem.

Hope its a fix.
Best wishes,
Andy

LaurasG
15-09-2009, 03:29 PM
That picture is just one i found on google, but i actualy have changed some of vacuum lines, however I did it one by one to not mix things up and i just double checked those lines on back of the carb and it didn't help. I also haven't touched those lines until this problem occoured.

AndySil
15-09-2009, 03:38 PM
When you have the engine running, can you see if the throttle compensator (three/four point unit) is touching the throttle plate. If its working right it should stop the throttle plate coming back and prevent stalling.

Crasher
15-09-2009, 05:45 PM
The Co adjusting bypass only alters the amount of air entering the idle emulsion circuit and cleaning that will not help. It sounds as though the floats inside the carb are stuck but that is a highly unusual fault. To be honest when I get an issue with a 2E2 carb I usually bin them and fit a Weber as the cost of repairing a 2E2 can be higher in parts alone than the price of a Weber direct conversion kit.

LaurasG
15-09-2009, 06:11 PM
three/four unit is extended at ~17mm and i can push it back ~3mm, and it doesn't withdraw as the engine gets hot, however i can push it back more than, ~7mm or so. I guess it is not working properly, but it shouldnt prevent engine from running it should make it run at higher rpm? I also have found out that i have couple of coolant leaks, but it shouldnt be related to carb problem? As for Weber, it is hard to get it here, so i could only go for another 2E2 from scrap. Actualy my coworker has one and i could get it cheap, but it has been sitting in his garage for 3-4 years i think, would it still be working? Maybe i should clean it somehow or something if I go this way?

kenney
15-09-2009, 06:44 PM
There is one thing we are forgetting here,and that is the idle jet.i think you need to take the top of the carb and clean the jets,The basic setting of the mixture adjusting screw,is important to enable the engine to idle properly.

Crasher
15-09-2009, 08:04 PM
Where is "here", South Africa?

kenney
15-09-2009, 08:35 PM
Here,there,anywhere,:dunno:Should have a new titel this post The Never Ending Storey

LaurasG
16-09-2009, 06:23 AM
Where is "here", South Africa?

No, Lithuania, and Weber conversion is just not popular here. I have never heard of anyone doing it, didn't find anything in local forums, also checked part stores catalogs and it wasn't there, they could order it, but this would be realy expensive.
Maybe we should stray on topic, m?
So how about carb that hasn't been used for 3-4 years? Need special attention?

Crasher
16-09-2009, 01:17 PM
The only thing I can suggest is to order a 2E2 full rebuild kit and start from there. I only rebuild 2E2’s on auto transmission cars as these are not suited to the manual choke system on the Weber and the lack of an idle boost system causes trouble.

kenney
16-09-2009, 02:26 PM
No, Lithuania, and Weber conversion is just not popular here. I have never heard of anyone doing it, didn't find anything in local forums, also checked part stores catalogs and it wasn't there, they could order it, but this would be realy expensive.
Maybe we should stray on topic, m?
So how about carb that hasn't been used for 3-4 years? Need special attention?The thing is, there might be more wrong with that carb,compared to the one that is on the engine now,I would strip the carb and clean the jets,worth a try.

AndySil
16-09-2009, 07:18 PM
Hi LaurasG,
I certainly wouldn't bother with a Weber carb. I have the original 2E2 on my 1988 Golf and it's working great. All I have bought is a repair gasket set with seals and float pin/pump diaphragm/part load enrichment valve assembly etc for about £20 and a new rubber/metal mounting plate for about £18 Any other parts can be taken off a used carb.
Theres no point in spending all that money on a Weber when your original carb could out last the body work of the car.
The only other part I had to change was the accelerator pump injection nozzle, which had the tiny ballbearing missing and causing erratic idle and flooding.(I got the part off a spare carb)
The carb probably needs a good soak and clean in petrol.
The 2E2 is a fantastic, economical carb, it just needs a little servicing occasionally.
It's not as hard as you think.
Good luck.
Andy

vwjules125
28-10-2009, 03:53 PM
I also agree that the 2E2 is an excellent carb when set up right - my 81k 1.8GL is running faultlessly but only after ensuring that the electrical/vacuum/fuel/coolant connections were sound and some careful tweaking (with reference to the Haynes manual for 2E2s, ESSENTIAL reading!). Don't waste your dosh on Weber carbs, they're not as well made and less economical than a well set-up 2E2. You've also got to fit a fiddly manual choke with the Weber, and again, the auto-choke on the 2E2 is efficient if set up right. Incidentally, you're OK to drizzle a little Redex down the intake without barbequing your face - it's never happened to me yet!

sati_007
24-11-2009, 02:12 AM
hi just sign up to here as have issue with my carb also.
car is an 1985 1.3 cl with HK engine 113k on it , last serviced about 2months ago. (k&n ,straight pipe, scorpion monza back box)

my auto choke still works kind of , but the flap in the carb and the link to the coil has broke so it dont work...errr:mad:. but thats not the issue iam having, i had the conman issue of high rev's on start up - easy fix , adjust the auto choke and timing and can of carb cleaner - job done 7mths ago still fine.

but its always had an issue of power, first gear foot down its flying , shift in to 2nd foot down slowly pulls to speed , but if i ease up to like half or 1/4 it pulls even better and if i hold it for like 20sec then floor it pulls away very quickly and the same apply for 3rd and 4th gear.

when i got the car MOT a few month back the co2 reading was 0.02% ( i was like damn that low:D!) and the guy said it was ment to be like near 2-3% and as of this it will be lacking power:( which it does. iam changing the clutch as the current one is nearly shot (getting hard to go in to gears unless you rev the engine up/down) so looking for guide for diy (its £150 supply and fit)

Crasher
24-11-2009, 02:29 PM
I think you would be better to start a new thread, your carb is a 2E3, not a 2E2 and they are quite different carbs.

Strutt
27-04-2011, 07:50 PM
I am having all the same problems with my 1988 1300cc 2E3. I have tracked down a 2nd hand 32 DMTR 3 months old with 3000miles on it from a crashed polo.What should i look out for when buying 2nd hand and will i need any gaskets or seals when fitting to mine?Also i take it this will work with the original air filter housing.If anyone has any info on installing one of these id appreciate it as ive never done one before.Cheers.

Crasher
27-04-2011, 11:22 PM
It is years since I did one of those. As for what to look for, if you can’t drive it then physical damage to the unit, other than that there is nothing you can look for. Contact Webcon if you need any parts.

simon hare
10-06-2012, 12:13 AM
Theres so many external influences that can affect the operation of a carburettored system like:- ambient temperature, icing, fuel condensation, starting from semi warm, etc etc, the good old days eh!.... Theyre ALL set up for a good compromise for open loop operation (i.e. no feedback from sensors as in modern fuel injection sytems). Automatic chokes were notoriously poor in any event and i've always changed any car i've owned to manual control, i.e. by changing the top half of the carb to manual control along with some linkages, adjustments/tweaks/+5% main jet changes if a bit lacking in power.
Just to add, i've recently in effect done the same to my fuel injected motor (2.0 bora). I simply took a couple of thin wires from the temperature sensor plug (finding out the two wires that the ecu sees) back to a switch to near where i sit. When the engines cold, i start and drive off with the switch open (normal vw operation). But then when driving along in 3rd/4th the switch is closed, a 500 ohm resistor comes into play and fools the ecu into believing the engine is 60/70c hotter than it is, thus delivering less fuel to the engine. I did this because my oil was becoming diluted with fuel over short journeys (bore wash) and to improve my economy slightly (which it has done by around 2mpg over 1 mile). I Just have to remember to flick the switch back when cold again (as like pulling the good old choke out). The switch being closed cannot cause engine damage due to underfueling as when the car is warm the ecu only sees a 20c temperature increase. To conclude, even modern systems are set up for a compromise, sensors/block water have a reaction/heat up time even. All things that can be overidden with a switch.

Crasher
10-06-2012, 01:41 AM
If you are making it run weaker, the lambda sensor will allow the ECU to correct whatever you do and your modification will probably make the cat shut down.

Stereoflaver
06-04-2013, 08:54 AM
Hi Kenney,
I have now replaced the wires and clips for the TTV (round black valve)(and thank you Crasher for supplying the part numbers). This has made all the difference and stabilized everything. I had replaced the wiring and clips previously but as I have had the carb on and off so many times I suppose it just deteriorated.
I am totally amazed and baffled that on wire could cause so much havoc .i.e revs up to 2000 when cold, then up to 3500+ then even stalling. I thought the TTV valve caused the revs to drop from 2000 to 1600 by making the regulating valve (square one ) open or close only.
Anyway It works great now.

How far back did you replace these cables ?

AndySil
06-04-2013, 01:09 PM
How far back did you replace these cables ?

I replaced these wires and clips about February 2009.
Over a period of time, due to engine/ manifold heat the wires get brittle and break down.

Part numbers recommended by Crasher were:-

Plug 443 972 992 £1

Cover 447 919 141 £3

Single wire piece 000 979 105 or 106, £1.30 odd each, come as a bag of five.

Crasher
06-04-2013, 08:30 PM
By "how far back" I think he meant distance along the cable.

AndySil
06-04-2013, 11:11 PM
By "how far back" I think he meant distance along the cable.

OK if that's what he means then he could try gripping a couple of strands at a time(of the suspect wire) and pull them out gently with some pliers. If they come away, he'll have a good idea how far down the cable he needs to cut to replace onto good sound wire.

The way I read it was he wanted to know how long ago I did it, maybe to see how long it would last. Sorry anyway, hope this clarifies the situation.
Would be interested to know how he gets on.

Crasher
06-04-2013, 11:52 PM
I bet we never hear from him again.

Stereoflaver
08-04-2013, 10:19 AM
By "how far back" I think he meant distance along the cable.

Correct.

There is some black shrouding so far back down the cable on our lasses cabby, I was going to cut it off, replace the cable as far back as possible and tape it back on when finished.
Its also an auto, so when it cuts out in the middle of the road, she has to slip it into neutral but it's hard to find actual neutral so the the starter will engage so sometimes it's into park to get it going. It could be fine all day then come to a busy junction and it seams to know and just cut out in the middle of the road.

Crasher
08-04-2013, 01:37 PM
I bet we never hear from him again.

Wrong again, :(

KeithOT
24-08-2013, 10:44 PM
Interesting thread & I admire the staying power to stick with the Pierberg carb. I have worked with various VW engines with Pierberg carbs over the last 43 years & have always found the carbs overly complex, frequently unreliable & underperforming & Bl**dy expensive. Every time I have replaced them with an equivalent (not uprated) Weber at a fraction of the price the performance difference is amazing. My 1600 Golf Driver is typical the Weber conversion was cheaper the the parts required to repair the 2E2 & has performed faultlessly for the last 5 years. Previously I replaced the 2 1/2 carb set up on a 2L Type 2 camper with a pair of single choke Webers & the change in performance was nothing short of magical. Even back to Beetle days almost any replacement carb would out perform the Pierberg never quite sure why the original carbs are well made but the just seem to underperform compared to equivalent replacements.

Crasher
26-08-2013, 01:17 AM
Is it staying power or the lack of funds with which to do anything else? If you were cold hearted about it I would say a large majority of the people who come on this forum asking for advice are here simply because they have to fix it themselves as they cannot afford an alternative route. I have lost count of the times in the near 27000 posts I have made on here where my suggestion has been rebuffed with the equivalent of "well yeh man but I an't got nah dolla tu get it fixed m8". I tire of it to be honest.

vwcabriolet1971
26-08-2013, 08:39 PM
I rebuilt my old GL 1.8 mk2 2E2 Pierburg (spelling?) a couple of times with a rebuild kit ,new waxstat, vacuum pull down unit etc. It was fine for months then another problem would arise. After the last rebuild I was rear-ended and the car was scrap . I was glad to see the back of it !

KeithOT
26-08-2013, 09:11 PM
I hate it when you think you have posted a reply & it's just not here said it was autosaved but nothing - must have timed out & I didn't realise & I cant remember the words OH Well!