Newbie - first post- looking to buy!

[woza]

Hey guys, have been looking at getting one of these for a while now. (golf gt tdi) Fathers friend at work has one, havent seen pics yet and the only thing i have been told is that it is silver, x reg, sports heated seats, 6 cd changer, alloys and the usual stuff.

Is there any way of telling what bhp this will be, im not too sharp on the model information. Is it a 1.9 and will it def be a gt tdi and not just a tdi or is that impossible to tell.

Has 108,000 miles and apparently is in great nic, what do you think is a fair price for this and from experience how do they run???

Thanks in advance

Woza.

[NicholasP]

quick

[woza]

what?

[dessimpson]

Have a look at the badges on the back where it says TDI

TDI = 90HP and 100 HP pd
TDI = GT TDI 110hp and 115hp PD and some 100hp pd engines eg final edition golf.
TDI = 130hp pd
TDI = 150 hp pd
also be ware of fakes its easy to buy a badge on ebay ..so theres plenty of 100 hp pd's with red stickers on them ..lolhttp://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/../images/smilies/redface.gif
http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/../images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/../images/buttons/reputation.gif (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/../reputation.php?p=15330)
p.s Info copied from a previous post by redmax90 :D:D http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/../images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/../report.php?p=15330) http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/../images/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/../newreply.php?do=newreply&p=15330)

[NicholasP]

Sorry I was replying to your message..how do they run?

If its the 130bhp or 150bhp model, dam quick..

Are you familiar with the whole diesel torque business? Or are you a petrol head?

[devonutopia]

I thought the GT TDI golfs (in MkIV shape) were all PD150 powered? 150bhp = bloody quick. :D

[sugs04]

I don't mean to hijack this thread but it's almost exactly what I'm after too.

I'm looking for a new motor now my 306 TD has died and I like to look of the Golf TDI range.

I'm probably looking around the £10k mark and I have seen both 130 and 150bhp cars appear in searches. The 150bhp appear to stop after 2004?

So given the choice is the slightly older 150 bhp better than the more common and recent 130bhp?

GT trim looks good to me.

If I'm talking rubbish please let me know:Blush2:

Thanks in advance

Sugs

[Eshrules]

I thought the GT TDI golfs (in MkIV shape) were all PD150 powered? 150bhp = bloody quick. :D

nope, i thought that too.... (long explanation below)

old(er) gt tdis were on the 110 ve engines (i think)

newer were 115,130 & 150 PD engines

however do not assume that because it has certain badges on the back or the dealer says it is a Gt tdi, that it is the truth.

please take a look at the following thread:

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=5068&highlight=engine+size

i think youll find all the answers and other relative threads there....

key to buying a golf, as with most cars, do your homework which you seem to be doing :beerchug: good lad

in regards to the pricing.... private sale i assume, so be careful, check for turbo/MAF issues, as well as all the bushes, check for the clutch wearing, check your air con/climate control works etc etc.

if all found with no fault, id expect to pay IRO £4500/5000 no more. also check on the service history and when the timing belt/tensioner was last done, any more than 4 years and your looking at paying for that.

[NicholasP]

i was in PD the other day and i was suprised how far diesel engines have come actually..mines the original TDI and it sounds like a taxi...even when it goes quick and despite the torque, turbo and all that..there's nothing elegant about the sound

However was really impressed with the PD engine one again..a much deeper and more sporty sound to it...

[woza]

cheers guys, am hopefully finding out some more information on tuesday.

the car has 108,000 miles on it and as i said its an x reg, how many miles are these cars good for?

and one final question....are all the gt tdi's 6 speed?

Woza.

[woza]

just went on to autotrader to get an online quote for how much the car should be worth. when you choose all the options the only gt tdi which is available in an x reg according to the site was the 110bhp, is that correct?

also the car was a company car alternative so it has been fully maintained every step of the way for all the miles which i guess is a good thing!

thanks again for your comments guys

any more greatly apprecaited

Woza.

[Eshrules]

cheers guys, am hopefully finding out some more information on tuesday.

the car has 108,000 miles on it and as i said its an x reg, how many miles are these cars good for?

and one final question....are all the gt tdi's 6 speed?

Woza.

mileage wise, dependant on the service history, theres no reason why a typical tdi shouldnt see at least 250k, with proper servicing and prompt oil changes (with the correct grade of oil of course).

not all gt tdis are 6 spd, no, it is an option i believe, although not sure about the later ones. i know that the early ones could either be a 5 or a 6 spd.... id always go for 6 spd, but make sure you check for clutch issues.
:beerchug:

[woza]

thanks again guys,

can anyone shed any light on the bhp situation?

Woza.

[woza]

what do you guys mean by pd aswell? :confused:

[Eshrules]

what do you guys mean by pd aswell? :confused:

pd stands for pump deuce .

there are two main 'pump' types if im right in my thinking... the VE rotary pump system and the PD system. its to do with the way the fuel is put into the engine.... may need a techies help for more techincal explanation...

the PD engines are the newer ones, the VE tend to be more economical but not as powerful from what i understand, and nowhere near as easy to chip.

what you actually need (because youll be guessing for ever more otherwise) is the engine code, eg mine is AJM = 115 bhp. if you can get that 3 figure engine code (as per my linky above in my last reply) , you can find out your bhp for sure and know if you're on a PD or a VE engine :beerchug:

[woza]

found out the reg today for the car! its an x reg as stated and upon entering it into confused.com it came up as being a 115bhp model.

so can anyone give me some tips before i buy. It is a very clean car throughout and has a full service history.

still not sure whether it is a 6 spd but it has added extras such as a 6 cd changer and heated sport seats. its silver and has no modifications.

108,000 miles, what do you think guys?

Woza.

[Eshrules]

found out the reg today for the car! its an x reg as stated and upon entering it into confused.com it came up as being a 115bhp model.

so can anyone give me some tips before i buy. It is a very clean car throughout and has a full service history.

still not sure whether it is a 6 spd but it has added extras such as a 6 cd changer and heated sport seats. its silver and has no modifications.

108,000 miles, what do you think guys?

Woza.

:aargh4: did you get the engine code to double check?

[woza]

no i didnt ask for the engine code. im doing everything through my father so its rather complicated! is there another way of checking online the model of a car with its reg plate, eg through the dvla?

Woza.

[Eshrules]

no i didnt ask for the engine code. im doing everything through my father so its rather complicated! is there another way of checking online the model of a car with its reg plate, eg through the dvla?

Woza.

yes but the database can be incorrect, thats what i mean, just on the off chance. you could do with getting that engine code, its definitive then :beerchug:

[dessimpson]

yes but the database can be incorrect, thats what i mean, just on the off chance. you could do with getting that engine code, its definitive then :beerchug:

The database was wrong for mine. It said 130 bhp but logbook and VW said it was 150. It did add another £70 to my insurance but i'd rather not give them an excuse to not pay out if i had an accident :(

[skymaster]

Hi

I used to own 3 Golf mark 4s. Lovely cars. I also worked for VW for a whiel so know a bit about them.

The GT TDI started life on an R reg with a 110 BHP engine. It was different from the SE, and S models in that it had fully colour coded door strips and bumper strips, also a leather steering wheel in the sportier 3 spoke design. Also nicer seats. TDI

In 1999 on a V plate they changed the engine to the all new PD technology with 115 BHP. The difference was a lot more than simply 5bhp. It was an amazing engine and took many petrol heads by surprise. I loved it. 6 speed box as well. TDI

Around 2000 on an X or Y they upped the BHP to 130 and made some improvements to the engine in general. Still TDI

Worth noting that the 110 version was still available during the release times of the 115 and 130. So to see one on anything up to a Y plate is not impossible

The TDI 130 then became one of most popular model choices for the Mk4. They later put the PD technology in the SE golfs with a 100 BHP version that still went really well! Also badged TDI but easily seperated from the GT by it's less sporty look

At higher milages you need to check Rear Axle beam bushes, front wishbones, anti roll bar bushes as unless changed already will certainly be shot by 100k. The early PD engines at 115 BHP required a cambelt change at every 40k where as the 130 was every 60k. At VW we saw quite a few 115s come in with busted turbos as well. Proper servicing with the exact spec of oil is essential for this car.

I used to own a V5 that was chipped. In all honesty I prefered the 130 TDIs when I drove them at work. They are great cars and I would say you will be delighted with it. VAG use that engine to power Golfs, Passats, Sharans, A3's A4's and A6's. It's easily powerful enough to get a heavier car from 0-60 in a respectable time (for a deisel) so in the small and light (ish ) golf it goes like a rocket!

[woza]

Hi

I used to own 3 Golf mark 4s. Lovely cars. I also worked for VW for a whiel so know a bit about them.

The GT TDI started life on an R reg with a 110 BHP engine. It was different from the SE, and S models in that it had fully colour coded door strips and bumper strips, also a leather steering wheel in the sportier 3 spoke design. Also nicer seats. TDI

In 1999 on a V plate they changed the engine to the all new PD technology with 115 BHP. The difference was a lot more than simply 5bhp. It was an amazing engine and took many petrol heads by surprise. I loved it. 6 speed box as well. TDI

Around 2000 on an X or Y they upped the BHP to 130 and made some improvements to the engine in general. Still TDI

Worth noting that the 110 version was still available during the release times of the 115 and 130. So to see one on anything up to a Y plate is not impossible


so an x reg with 115bhp? this doesnt seem to fit in there!! :confused:

[Eshrules]

so an x reg with 115bhp? this doesnt seem to fit in there!! :confused:

it is dependant on the engine code, mate, i cant stress enough, without it, thers no definitive way to tell the true power of the engine, the above info is slightly incorrect. mines a w plate and i've got the 115 pd engine. engine code AJM, which yours should be if its what you think it is.:beerchug:

[skymaster]

Dont forget that engine codes relating to Reg plates is always going to be a blurred way to try and find out. My guide was just an estimate. The way they order, register and sell new cars means you could end up with a W reg car that came off the production line after an X reg car. So engine code is the only sure way to know. The year of registration and badge can be very decieving indeed.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

pd stands for pump deuce .

there are two main 'pump' types if im right in my thinking... the VE rotary pump system and the PD system. its to do with the way the fuel is put into the engine.... may need a techies help for more techincal explanation...

T_T to the rescue ;) :D

Just to clarify diesel engine technology, you need to consider 3 separate issues; the actual placement of the injector, AND the method of supply of fuel, AND the acutal operation of the injection process.

INJECTORS - Siteing
The placement of injectors is easy - in the old, old days, you had indirect injection; where the injector outlet fed fuel into a small remote combustion chamber, away from the main combustion chamber on top of the piston/cylinder. These are obsolete, due to a vast number of reasons.

The newer alternative is direct injection; where the injector outlet squirts the fuel directly on to the piston and into the combustion chamber.

FUEL SUPPLY
There are two separate and distinct processes of fuel supply. The first part is the method of getting a low pressure supply of fuel from the tank up to the high pressure system. The second part is the generation of the high pressure system, delivering fuel to the injectors.

FUEL SUPPLY - Low pressure side
The low pressure supply remains basically simple, using either an old fashioned mechanical lift pump, or an in-tank electrical lift pump (these can be controled by ECUs).

FUEL SUPPLY - High pressure side
The high pressure side is where it gets really diverse. Traditionally, the old-skool methods used mechanical injection pumps to generate high pressure on individual circuits, which then overcame the pre-determined "release" pressure in each of the injectors. There were two distinct types of injector pump; the first was an in-line pump, which actually looked like a really dinky engine sitting on the side of the main engine block. These were used on early truck engines, and are still used on huge commercial (for standby electricity generators) and marine engines. Later designs were the rotary pump, sometimes called the distributor pump (because it looked similar to ignition distributors). In both types, the high pressure fuel was then delivered to the injectors along separate external rigid fuel pipes. The actual timing of injection cycle was rigidly controlled, and allowed no scope for adaptive or dynamic conditions. Neither of these systems have any use in modern cars, due to the stringent emissions regulations, which they are unable to meet.


In modern high pressure side systems, the high pressure is generated "en mass", by a single high pressure pump, and the fuel is fed directly into a single high pressure fuel resevoir, or "common rail", which serves all injectors (this basic principle is for in-line engines, "V" engines usually have two sets of pumps and fuel rails, one per cylinder bank). The pressure of the fuel generated by the high pressure pump has no direct effect on the release, or "opening" of the actual fuel injectors. Because of this, the actual pressures developed are considerably higher than the old fashioned mechanical systems. The actual injection process is controlled by two separate and distinct methods (one or the other, but not both). One method has been used on an industry wide process; and is commonly and simply called "common rail injection". The other method is used exclusively by VAG engines (although a similar system was used by Cummins commercials!), and, as eshrules states, is termed "Pumpe Düse", (to be pedantic about the Germanic spelling! ;) ), or PD, or more simply, "unit injector".

INJECTION - Modern Technology: COMMON RAIL
The fuel injectors are electronically controlled "Piezo" types. They are controlled by the engine ECU, and both the actual timing, and pulse duration is variable, according to engine load, throttle position, throttle change, external air temperature, oil temperature, coolant temperature, and many other variables.

Advantages: improved emissions and economy from better injection control. Injectors can be "multi-pulsed" for different conditions. Injector operation can be tuned by re-mapping the engine ECU.
Disadvantages: lower fuel injection pressures compared to PD systems. Less efficient fuel atomisation compared to PD.

INJECTION - Modern Technology: VAG PUMPE DÜSE
The fuel injectors are mechanically controlled by a separate lobe on the engine camshaft. This develops a considerably higher injection pressure, over the already high pressures in common rail, thus achieving even better fuel atomisation, for cleaner burning. The pulse duration, or volume of fuel injected is static. The timing of the injection is variably controlled, in the same way that the cylinder valves are, through variable camshaft timing.

Advantages: improved emissions and economy from considerably higher injection pressures compared to convenional common rail.
Disadvantages: less scope to modify injector timing and duration than common rail. Less scope of achieving future more stringent emissions standards. Requires the use of a specific high performance fully synthetic engine oil.


DONT WORRY, I'LL BE BACK TO ADD SOME MORE !!!


the PD engines are the newer ones, the VE tend to be more economical but not as powerful from what i understand, and nowhere near as easy to chip.

Actually - for PD and VE engines developing identical power, the PD engine will be more economical. This is down to the greater atomisation of the fuel spray from the ultra high pressure PD system, leading to a more complete combustion. When the PD engines are tuned (either by the manufacturer or aftermarket tuners) to develop more power, then naturally the fuel consumption worsens - but it would still be better than a VE engine with an equivalent power output.

Regarding aftermarket chip tuning, the PD engine uses a highly complex engine management system, whereas the earlier VE engines used a very basic form of engine control. Turbo chargers are also extensively used on PD engines, and can support variable vane technology.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Dont forget that engine codes relating to Reg plates is always going to be a blurred way to try and find out. My guide was just an estimate. The way they order, register and sell new cars means you could end up with a W reg car that came off the production line after an X reg car. So engine code is the only sure way to know. The year of registration and badge can be very decieving indeed.

That is why I always tell people to ignore the registration letter and/or registration year; and only rely on the manufacturer "model year" which can simply be determined from the 10th digit of the VIN. A 10th digit number is self-explanatory, but if the 10th digit is a letter, then you need to look up a VIN decoder. A word of caution: only use European VIN decoders, because the north american (USA and Canada) used a completely diverent convention for their 17 digit VINs.

Rgds

[sugs04]

Thanks for the info in this thread. I found what I was looking for yesteerday and picked up a 150. :D

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=5950

Good luck woza!

cheers

Sugs

[ditech50]

Have a look at the badges on the back where it says TDI

TDI = 90HP and 100 HP pd
TDI = GT TDI 110hp and 115hp PD and some 100hp pd engines eg final edition golf.
TDI = 130hp pd
TDI = 150 hp pd
also be ware of fakes its easy to buy a badge on ebay ..so theres plenty of 100 hp pd's with red stickers on them ..lolhttp://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/../images/smilies/redface.gif
http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/../images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/../images/buttons/reputation.gif (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/../reputation.php?p=15330)
p.s Info copied from a previous post by redmax90 :D:D http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/../images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/../report.php?p=15330) http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/../images/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/../newreply.php?do=newreply&p=15330)
RED I is 100bhp
RED DI IS 115
RED TDI is 130
GT RED TDI IS 150

[dessimpson]

RED I is 100bhp
RED DI IS 115
RED TDI is 130
GT RED TDI IS 150

Are you sure?? :confused::confused::confused::confused:

Thought the guy i quoted was correct (i checked a few other places too)

[Eshrules]

Lol either way, it doesnt really matter, as has been advised, badges are a waste of time, only way to tell the BHp of the engine is with the engine code, the respective info is above.

those who choose to read the badges and draw their BHp from that are simply asking for trouble :beerchug: