A4 2.5TDi Cam Belt Broken

[duffyb]

Hi,

The belt on my 2001 A4 V6 2.5 TDi broke on Saturday. Car is currently with main dealer in Glasgow who say belt should have been changed at 4 years although it has only done 54K.
Any tips on the following:
1. Suggestions as to good independant in Glagow area to repair.
2. Likely outcome on this engine (V6 2.5 Tdi) (valves, cam etc.)
3. Gossip on anyone who got anything from Audi since mileage low for this fault. (Car dealer who sold me car three months ago asked when belt was due to be changed and was told 80K !!)
4. Any hints on minimising repair costs if it is major repair.

Brian

[Dave Avant]

1. I don't know the area.
2. Probably bent valves and guides, depends on revs etc About £1200+ amount of work, probably more as its a V6 and has 2 heads and gear.
3. Unfortunately you won't get anything from Audi as the mileage AND years are specified so a 25 year old car with a snapped belt at 30,000 miles doesn't come back expecting free repair. The belt has a life and mileage expectancy thus the 4 years or 80K miles which ever occurs first, in your case the 4 years, but it did last about 3 years extra. I'm sure the dealer asked, maybe he is trying to cover himself.
4. It is normally a major repair as half the engine needs to taken apart with a head strip and if you're unluck a bottom end rebuild as its been know for the valves to be strong and bend the conrods.

What warranty did you get with the car? But unfortunately I think you'll be on your own as its a maintenance problem which lies with the owner. :(

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Can't help with 1 and 2.

Dave is spot on with point three - the rubber in the belt deteriorates over time, which is why the 4-year time limit is absolutely crucial.

Dave's answer to q4 is also close, a top-end rebuild would be the norm, but on a diesel, I doubt the rods would be bent - they are usually much stronger than petrol-engined rods.

For minimising repair costs, take it away from the main *******, and find a good VAG independent - try these http://www.a4audi.co.uk/ - I have no connection or experience though!

Rgds

[architectboy]

There has been at least one big court case in the US concerning timing belts failing before the handbook-advised changing mileage:
http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=185&did=1247
http://www.greatbrook.com/Personal/audi_a4_quality_broken_timing_belt.htm

[alfapseud]

Cambelts snappimg occupy a considerable proportion of my intrusive thoughts each day.....

As for servicing I've had my belts done by a small garage where the owner has had 5 cylinders and, more recently tdis for years and one of the staff had a 2.5 tdi quattro

A full belt change inc rollers was under 400 which was done @ 81000 includimg the extra belts and tension rollers..... Audi -£700?

There was also a gaage who claimed to be vw audi specialist and they collected old scrappers for old bits at their premises beside the antiques place at the tall ship in Finnieston. The antique place burnt down and its all raod works there.They were called Donaldson's or Donaldson and moved away but still within glasgow. Worth looking up in book. Or phone Eurocarparts / Gordon's and see where they deliver bits now...

Only used them once as they had a scrap 100 and I needed new window winders to replace jammed electric ones so they did a supply and fit of two manual rear winders for £100 which was a bit high but ok. Seemed a busy garage


I'm facing a similar problem in that I am after an a4 1.8 with 42 miles but 8 years old...change the belts/ Honest John (website ) says so
ss

[avhation]

I looked into the question of cambelt mileage life on the 2.5TDI recently using ELSAWIN and concluded that it was 120000 km (say 75000 miles), and that unlike many other VW models the tensioning roller does not need to be replaced unless it is showing signs of wear when the belt is replaced. Nowhere is a calendar life specified in ELSAWIN (or indeed my vehicle's handbook). It is too easy for a dealer to drum up trade by "recommending" more frequent work than VW specifies.

[lennymfo]

Duffy, have you had it sorted yet? You may want to try using A4 Audi who is considerably cheaper than Glasgow Audi. Look at this thread for price comparisons http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=8343 and his website here http://www.a4audi.co.uk/index.php. FYI Andy who owns told me that if the belt goes on the V6 it will mean a new engine. I too have a 2.5 V6 tdi and had the timing belt replaced for £290. Lenny

[onzarob]

I looked into the question of cambelt mileage life on the 2.5TDI recently using ELSAWIN and concluded that it was 120000 km (say 75000 miles), and that unlike many other VW models the tensioning roller does not need to be replaced unless it is showing signs of wear when the belt is replaced. Nowhere is a calendar life specified in ELSAWIN (or indeed my vehicle's handbook). It is too easy for a dealer to drum up trade by "recommending" more frequent work than VW specifies.

The 4 years is correct and recommendation by VW not the dealers, for the price of a belt and labour would you chance a rebuild!!!

[avhation]

The quote from Kieth Garages Aylesbury (VW) is £881.37. So the running cost of a VW 2.5TDI cambelt, if one accepts the 4 year recommendation, is getting on for £5 per week which is outrageous, especially when it is not mentioned in any sales/maintenance literature available to potential owners when weighing up the pros and cons of purchase. I would be interested to know where the 4 year life is specified by VW and whether this is advertised also for modern equivalent cars. My next car will have a timing chain. I feel a letter to VW is coming on - does anyone know of a sensible person to write to?

[onzarob]

Funny you should mention timming chains, they seem to be making a comeback, including VW.

VW are not the only manufacturer to change there recommendations for timing belt changes, I know Fiat/Alfa have halve all there milage rcomendation and time intervals. some of there car are down to 30k before a change:confused:

I think they just had to many warrantyclaims for broken cambelts, so the obvous thing was to shorten the recommended life. But i agree with the amount the dealers charge to change them are outragous.

[Dozz]

Would I be right in thinking all belts are made from the same stuff? The only reason I ask is because my 3.0 Lt v6 petrol has to do 80,000 miles before needing a cambelt. Now I can understand some engines work there belts harder and so need them replaced earlier but on time scale according to Audi my belt will last 8 years which is twice as long as what your quoting for the oil burners. Just another piece of info I had a passat 130 pd. The cambelt had gone by the service by 8k miles and I started to get nervous so had it done which turned out to be blessing. The belt had started to split not across but around the length of the belt you could put your finger through it at one point. I was also surprised at the width of the belt but I put that down to the work the camshaft has to do with the injectors

[adamss24]

Funny you should mention timming chains, they seem to be making a comeback, including VW.

VW are not the only manufacturer to change there recommendations for timing belt changes, I know Fiat/Alfa have halve all there milage rcomendation and time intervals. some of there car are down to 30k before a change:confused:

I think they just had to many warrantyclaims for broken cambelts, so the obvous thing was to shorten the recommended life. But i agree with the amount the dealers charge to change them are outragous.
Fact is, most of the timing belts break AFTER they are replaced, due to impropper tensioning of the belt tensioners or poor quality materials used. If its done by the factory, its ussualy changed after 80000 miles. Thats what is stated on the sticker under the bonet ! I do my own timing belts on my a4 v6 Tdi quattro and the belt takes only 20 min ! Its untill you get to it that takes another 40min-1.5 hours...

[Quattro25]

Fact is, most of the timing belts break AFTER they are replaced, due to impropper tensioning of the belt tensioners or poor quality materials used. If its done by the factory, its ussualy changed after 80000 miles. Thats what is stated on the sticker under the bonet ! I do my own timing belts on my a4 v6 Tdi quattro and the belt takes only 20 min ! Its untill you get to it that takes another 40min-1.5 hours...

Could you give any tips as to how to do this....I've bought all the VAG Tools for cam locking, pump locking, crank locking etc....

[adamss24]

You have to remove all the front components: bumper, radiator , cross member, headlights, front lock carrier, the AC belt, tha auxiliary belt(make a note as how it is routed, so you dont scratch your head how it goes !), then the viscous fan needs to come off- you will need 2 big adjustable spaners for that, because i forgot the sizes !- remove the fan pulley hold with 3x 10 mm bolts, then the timing belt covers vill have to come off. Now with a small brush and some bright colour paint, mark all the pulleys and the covers by placing dots on both the housing and the camshafts/crankshaft and fuel pump. Please note the pump timing is done in two stages: first you set the belt(remember to mark the position of the bolts by marking them with a felt pen/permanent marker), then dinamically-with the aid of the "tdi timing" plug-in of vag com ! Then the pump belt tensioner have to be undone( You will need a special 22 mm deep socket with a slot on the side or a ring spaner will do just fine, and a 7mm allen key to undo the tensioner. Discard it only if it shows signs of wear, then remove the belt then the tensioner holding braket will have to come off as well. Do not turn the engine while you remove the belts. Now with the 7mm allen key, undo the pressure of the automatic belt tensioner(anticlockwise !) and insert the spring clamp trough the slots to hold it back or you could use a 3mm drill bit as well ! Then move to the other tensioner and undo the holding nut just a bit then release the pressure by turning the tensioner with the allen key anticlockwise. I found that its easyer to remove the left hand side camshaft pulley with a 2/3 jaw bearing press, because the new belt will just not slide past the lip or you could remove the tensioner all toghether, but be carefull not to cross the threads as the bolt will stay at an odd angle. Now remove the water pump and discard it, clean the matting faces then fit the new one and dont overtighten the bolts. Refit all the components in order off removal and use new tensioners/rollers..If the cams move when you fit the belt, do not worry as the paint marks will hellp lining them back but you will need help from a mate to hold the sprockets ! Do not turn any pulley/cam/crank while you fit the belt and then tension the belt tensioners so there is no slack but not over tighten ! Remove the spring clip/drill bit from the automatic belt tensioner and tighten the tensioner as well. Refit the pump belt tensioner braket and fit a new tensioner only if it shows signs of wear or if you really loaded ! Fit the pump making shure all the marks/dots of paint line up then tension the pump tensioner then refit all the components in the order you removed. PLEASE TURN THE ENGINE AT LEAST 5-6 TURNS AND CHECK IF IT TURNS WITHOUT ANY PROBLEM. Refill the cooling system with fresh pink antifreeze and if everything is ok you could start the engine. Bleed the cooling system and check there are no leaks from the new water pump you fitted ! That's it. I advise against drinking while you do a timing belt job because there are things that will get overlooked but as soon as you done and everithing seems ok, crack few beers open and congratulate yourself for a job weell done ! Will post few images and tightening torques as soon as i find some time ! Please, if someone does one of these jobs, have a digital camera and take as many pictures as possible and you could add to my write-up as all i have wrote here is from memory and my english isnt as good as i wished to be ! Hope this helps. Use common sense and use a good quality belt kit like Contitech or Dayco-Pirelly or even one from the dealer if moneys is no problem, as its better safe than sorry ! Good luck to everyone who's going to tackle a job like this !

[Quattro25]

Thanks....

Sorry you had to type so much......I'm going to try in the next few days....