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View Full Version : Hill Hold Assist close shave



digigriffin
23-07-2008, 10:37 AM
I think the Hill Hold Assist is a great option, however this must be manually enabled each time you start the car.

My wife forgot to do this and on a short drive stopped, turned the ignition off and got out of the car.

With the kids in the back, the car did not have the parking brake engaged as it would if the hill hold assist was active, and it started to roll backwards into the road.

Yikes...

Fortunately she managed to stop the car.

So why can we not have the hill hold assist as an option to be always on via the MMI?
Or a warning that the parking brake is not active when you turn off the ignition?

mkc
23-07-2008, 10:51 AM
But wouldnt you put the electric handbrake on and then get out of the car. I thought the hill assist only stopped you rolling backwards until you went forwards, it was not a replacement for not switching on the electric handbrake?

digigriffin
23-07-2008, 10:55 AM
If the hill hold assist is active when you stop it engages the parking brake automatically.

If you turn the ignition off with the hill hold assit on the parking brake is activated automatically.

So as long as you remember to activate hill hold assist you never have to touch the parking brake.

alexcf
23-07-2008, 11:30 AM
Yeah, I had that when I parked the car in the Brighton Majestic car park... Reverse parked it in, then it started rolling backwards into a brick wall... LUCKILY my friend who was with me noticed so we both were holding the car, so one of us had to dive in an flick the switch up...

I'm now COMPLETELY paranoid about it... :p Also, if you have HH on, and you take your seat belt off, it puts the parking break on.

AUDI-NUT
23-07-2008, 01:30 PM
I think the Hill Hold Assist is a great option, however this must be manually enabled each time you start the car.

My wife forgot to do this and on a short drive stopped, turned the ignition off and got out of the car.

With the kids in the back, the car did not have the parking brake engaged as it would if the hill hold assist was active, and it started to roll backwards into the road.

Yikes...

Fortunately she managed to stop the car.

So why can we not have the hill hold assist as an option to be always on via the MMI?
Or a warning that the parking brake is not active when you turn off the ignition?

Hill hold is just that - hill hold and should not be used as a replacement for the parking brake - it does say that somewhere in the manual.

digigriffin
23-07-2008, 01:35 PM
I know there is a warning in the manual about this type of thing.

However the original point was why does hill hold assist have to be manually enabled each time?

If you do it all the time and then forget it can make for an accident.

If it could be set in the MMI and you have to the option to manually turn it off or release the parking break then wouldn't that be better?

2.7 S-line
23-07-2008, 01:35 PM
have to admit i've nearly forgotten the hand brake a few times - using a button does kind of take getting used to

but then i may not be the brightest bunny as i drove it for a week before i realised the handbrake disengaged automatically - hill starts had been a bit of a problem up to then :Blush2: so maybe the problems more with me than the design

didn't realise the hill hold would put the hand brake on - very handy , though i have to agree whoever decided it should default to off every time you start the car was an idiot

kodkod.84
23-07-2008, 02:14 PM
What's wrong with a normal handbrake and using the clutch? These modern Audi's hey? :D

I used the electric hand brake in an A6 took me ages to stop reaching for the handbrake lever when stopping at traffic lights lol

browellm
23-07-2008, 06:56 PM
It's is pretty odd. In the Renault Scenic which has the same sort of electronic brake, it engages automatically when you switch off the ignition. This would seem to be much more sensible behaviour and would be quite trivial for Audi to implement.

two_paracetamol
24-07-2008, 09:44 AM
Sorry mate I'm with Audi-Nut.

Yes it is ridiculous that you have to switch Hill hold on every time you turn the car on and there must be some stupid people that design this stuff...

UNLESS of course they hope that by having to enable it every time you start the car you might just be less likely to come a cropper by assuming it is on when it isn't.

They say always pack your own parachute. Maybe we should always check our own Hill Hold Assist for a reason?

2.7 S-line
24-07-2008, 11:32 AM
maybe they should extend the same logic to auto headlights and other features to really keep us on our toes...........

two_paracetamol
24-07-2008, 12:00 PM
:banghead:

digigriffin
24-07-2008, 12:35 PM
steady on, you'll give yourself a headache ;)

browellm
24-07-2008, 01:24 PM
Although the title of the post mentions HHA, I'm not really sure it's solely hill-hold issue, more a function of how you would expect the electro-mechanical handbrake to function any time you switch off the engine.

stewartt997
24-07-2008, 03:15 PM
Ever since I read about hill hold I have wondered what the benefit was over the standard handbrake. From what I now read this re-affrims my position.

Surely it is just as easy to press the button for handbrake as it is to turn on hill-hold and at least you know you need to do that when you park up too?

digigriffin
24-07-2008, 03:43 PM
Hill Hold assist activates the hand brake any time you come to a stop with the foot brake.

So its not just hill starts, traffic lights, road junctions...

After a couple of seconds when the HHA is braking the green symbol for the HHA changes to the red of the standard hand brake.

So it can be viewed as a auto handbrake as long as you remember to turn it on each time you start the car.

I actually think it is a slight mis nomer for it to be call 'Hill Start Assist'.

I think it is well worth the cost to have this option, even with the potential shortfalls mentioned.

john-mandy
05-04-2012, 06:29 PM
I know this is a very old topic,

But my elderly parents have just purchased an audi a5 tdi, (yes i am serious), anyway there's lots of confusion over the electronic handbrake... and hill assist.
My mothers who's probably not the best driver i know, she is 72, but a very competant driver, worries continuously about the hill assist button, apparently it needs to be activated everytime you start the car, but is concerned she'll forget to turn it on, with a chance she causes a bump.
Now my question, can the default setting for the hill assist be changed via vag com, i have the full version.

legendamongus
05-04-2012, 06:57 PM
There isn't a VCDS option to constantly enable it as far as I'm aware. I find its a good idea to just incorporate it into your normal routine before moving off (ie: engine on, check you can see in all the mirrors, seatbelt on, hill hold, into first/D, drive away). Once you get into the routine of doing it it becomes second nature, like putting the key in on the left instead of the right side of the steering column.

With regards to all of this rolling away when stopped because it doesn't automatically engage the parking brake when the ignition is off, I agree that it would be great if this feature was included. However, it is not. Even if it was, I'd certainly check that it was engaged, using the two red lights that indicate that it's engaged, before even opening the door, let alone getting out. Just common sense to me, like how I wouldn't squint through the windscreen during a rainstorm and wonder why the auto wipers weren't working. I'd put them on manual. If I didn't want to apply my brain to the process of driving at all, I'd work harder and hire a chauffeur...

john-mandy
05-04-2012, 07:34 PM
There isn't a VCDS option to constantly enable it as far as I'm aware. I find its a good idea to just incorporate it into your normal routine before moving off (ie: engine on, check you can see in all the mirrors, seatbelt on, hill hold, into first/D, drive away). Once you get into the routine of doing it it becomes second nature, like putting the key in on the left instead of the right side of the steering column.

With regards to all of this rolling away when stopped because it doesn't automatically engage the parking brake when the ignition is off, I agree that it would be great if this feature was included. However, it is not. Even if it was, I'd certainly check that it was engaged, using the two red lights that indicate that it's engaged, before even opening the door, let alone getting out. Just common sense to me, like how I wouldn't squint through the windscreen during a rainstorm and wonder why the auto wipers weren't working. I'd put them on manual. If I didn't want to apply my brain to the process of driving at all, I'd work harder and hire a chauffeur...

Thanks,
I'm pretty much like yourself, but my parents are over 70, although very good drivers... and sometimes you just forget them little things.
I think audi should have had the feature set to always on, no mistakes can happen then, and i don't see a reason for switching it off, otherwise leave the feature off altogether.

legendamongus
06-04-2012, 01:12 AM
Thanks,
I'm pretty much like yourself, but my parents are over 70, although very good drivers... and sometimes you just forget them little things.
I think audi should have had the feature set to always on, no mistakes can happen then, and i don't see a reason for switching it off, otherwise leave the feature off altogether.

Yeah, it would be good if it was always on, or at least engaged the parking brake when the ignition was off. That said, I'd be interested to know how many people leave their handbrakes off when they have the old fashioned lever. It's the same principle, just with a different action and a warning lamp IMO.

Maybe suggest leaving it parked in gear so that it doesn't roll off even if the parking brake isn't engaged? Never hurts to have two options securing the car...

SC03OTT
06-04-2012, 06:59 AM
Maybe suggest leaving it parked in gear so that it doesn't roll off even if the parking brake isn't engaged? Never hurts to have two options securing the car...

I was thinking this myself. I leave the car in gear all the time when parked. It doesn't cost anything or take any more time to do so. Prevents incidents like the one the OP made (a long time ago).

John140
06-04-2012, 02:44 PM
I'm totally confused by all of this as I have a MY 10 A4 and my car has no separate hill-hold functionality. However it will pull away perfectly forwards or backwards on steep slopes, on the normal electronic handbrake. Does this mean they combined the function on later cars ?

ru55
06-04-2012, 03:33 PM
Hill hold is an extra on top of the standard electronic handbrake. I was meant to have this on my car but it was left off the order accidentally. Anyway what it does is to hold the car on a hill without you having to apply the handbrake and so prevent you rolling back. As has been pointed out above it will only function when switched on!

For any newbies reading this it is tough to retro fit as you need the right ABS controller. I investigated this a few times and gave up.

moptisam2
07-04-2012, 07:51 AM
John 140
I had a B8 08 plate and hill hold was an option that I bought. I am waiting for delivery of my new 2012 model and, once again, have chosen the hill hold assist option. I would not be without it.

You are right that the car will pull away on a hill with just the electronic brake but when I was loaned a car from a dealer without hill hold, I had a good opportunity to appreciate it.

What happened which made me decide that I would not have an A4 without hill hold is that I realised what a pain it is (when on a hill and in a queue of traffic approaching a give-way) to have to apply the brake manually every time I stopped – rather than have hill hold apply it automatically.

I consider it such an essential feature that I held off replacing the 08 car until now, because before this new model Audi decided that the engine configuration (start-stop being cited to me as the reason) of a 2.0 TDi could not accommodate hill-hold.

If, when my car arrives, it has been left off (as in the case of ru55) I will simply be refusing to accept the car – as I consider it to be a condition of the contract.

John140
07-04-2012, 01:22 PM
So really then the difference is that it prevents you needing to constantly re-apply the handbrake when in traffic on a steep hill. In that case I haven't missed it because I have never been in that position much, and dont ride the clutch either, but I guess there may be some congested hilly towns where this may be useful but not really around my area. Thanks for the explanation anyway.

moptisam2
08-04-2012, 08:18 AM
John 140

Yes, it is most useful on hills - something I appreciate as I live in West Yorkshire. But I just like the convenience of not having to put on the brake myself when I come to a stop.

GolferPete
09-04-2012, 08:59 AM
I find it great (and a cheap option as well!). It is very useful, not only on hills, but every time you come to a stop with the multitronic box. It means you don't get the creep from the auto box when left in D (or S!).

HHGTTG
26-08-2012, 03:22 PM
I find it great (and a cheap option as well!). It is very useful, not only on hills, but every time you come to a stop with the multitronic box. It means you don't get the creep from the auto box when left in D (or S!).

Please God protect us from these nonsenses. I will be avoiding any new car, like the plague should it try and force upon me electronic handbrakes and Hiil Hold assists that have to be activated it time you start the car.

rizo9
26-08-2012, 05:54 PM
on my MY10 passat cc i can set it to be on all the time pretty handy, although didn't spec it on my new a4 coming next month

GolferPete
03-09-2012, 04:44 PM
Please God protect us from these nonsenses. I will be avoiding any new car, like the plague should it try and force upon me electronic handbrakes and Hiil Hold assists that have to be activated it time you start the car.

There speaks someone who has probably not tried it, me thinks!

BTW, the hill hold doesn't force you to do anything, you opt in not out. Even luddites can be happy:biglaugh:

MFGF
05-09-2012, 11:20 AM
I have to admit, I didn't initially see the point of Hill Hold before I had it, but it came as standard on my car, and now I find I use it every journey. I never trust it to apply the parking brake though - I always do that manually.

Duncan Clarke
05-09-2012, 10:35 PM
I can see how it could be a convenience, but in all honesty I'm finding that all of these "conveniences" are demoting the driver down to a "primary passenger" and people are forgetting how to drive.

I would much prefer a manual hand brake. I learned to apply the brake whenever it was appropriate, and to release it as well. Now I have to ask the car nicely if it wouldn't mind applying/releasing the brake, waiting for a second or two, checking, asking again if necessary etc. How is that progress?

Now I read that people don't check the handbrake before exiting? Seriously? It seems to me that these conveniences are making people dangerously unaware of what they should be doing. Scary.

HHGTTG
06-09-2012, 08:54 AM
I can see how it could be a convenience, but in all honesty I'm finding that all of these "conveniences" are demoting the driver down to a "primary passenger" and people are forgetting how to drive.

I would much prefer a manual hand brake. I learned to apply the brake whenever it was appropriate, and to release it as well. Now I have to ask the car nicely if it wouldn't mind applying/releasing the brake, waiting for a second or two, checking, asking again if necessary etc. How is that progress?

Now I read that people don't check the handbrake before exiting? Seriously? It seems to me that these conveniences are making people dangerously unaware of what they should be doing. Scary.

The trouble is that people who think like you and me are accused of being Luddites and are against progress or things like that but from my own personal thoughts that could not be further from the truth. We are, however, perspicacious enough to see when enough should enough and that e-brakes don't enhance the driving experience in a manual car, at least. Hill hold, well that's another matter, I suppose.

YawnGumbo
06-09-2012, 01:28 PM
Whilst all of these conveniences might be demoting your driving experience, the fact is that you can't buy a new A4 without an electronic parking brake, and in fact more and more new cars are going this way (the new Golf has one, for example) to create more centre-console space. Therefore if there is a way of making the move to e-brake's easier then I'm all for it. I was not looking forward to the e-brake on my new A4 at all after having experienced a similar device on a Renault Laguna hire car once, and hence specced the auto-hold to try and make the transition easier. I have to say I am so glad I have as it takes away all the potential issues about hill starts and thinking about the e-brake taking a while to engage. Now when I drive my wife's car which has a manual handbrake, it almost feels old fashioned and clunky! ;)

legendamongus
06-09-2012, 03:07 PM
Whilst all of these conveniences might be demoting your driving experience, the fact is that you can't buy a new A4 without an electronic parking brake, and in fact more and more new cars are going this way (the new Golf has one, for example) to create more centre-console space. Therefore if there is a way of making the move to e-brake's easier then I'm all for it. I was not looking forward to the e-brake on my new A4 at all after having experienced a similar device on a Renault Laguna hire car once, and hence specced the auto-hold to try and make the transition easier. I have to say I am so glad I have as it takes away all the potential issues about hill starts and thinking about the e-brake taking a while to engage. Now when I drive my wife's car which has a manual handbrake, it almost feels old fashioned and clunky! ;)
Exactly. Once you actually get used to having a button instead of a lever, it becomes pretty much exactly the same to use as a lever. The whole forgetting to check it argument just makes no sense to me, leave the car in gear when you stop if it's such an issue.

There are several things on the A4's option list that I'd criticise with regards to safety/'driving experience'/being a 'Luddite' before the hill hold. Stuff like high beam assist, lane departure warnings, blind spot checker, adaptive cruise control, etc.

HHGTTG: I notice you have a Golf. Just out of interest, have you actually tried an electronic handbrake?

HHGTTG
06-09-2012, 04:39 PM
Exactly. Once you actually get used to having a button instead of a lever, it becomes pretty much exactly the same to use as a lever. The whole forgetting to check it argument just makes no sense to me, leave the car in gear when you stop if it's such an issue.

There are several things on the A4's option list that I'd criticise with regards to safety/'driving experience'/being a 'Luddite' before the hill hold. Stuff like high beam assist, lane departure warnings, blind spot checker, adaptive cruise control, etc.

HHGTTG: I notice you have a Golf. Just out of interest, have you actually tried an electronic handbrake?

No, I haven't but I can intrinsically sense what is good and bad. In fact I possibly don't have anything against a button but it's what's behind it that troubles me i.e. the actuating electric motors that presumably operate the drum/disc clamping mechanism. Where are these motors and can they corrode easily in what may be a vulnerable position? I don't accept this need for more console space. My Golf's handbrake sits nicely in a recess, towards the passenger's side, admittedly but it's quite powerful in action and is instantaneous in its 'off' action and won't be affected by electrical failures.
I am not a luddite and have got used to my auto sensing wipers although they're not perfect and I often have to do a manual wipe as they just won't wipe and leave me blind, which variable fix intervals ones didn't.