Advice sought, T4 or T5?

[bdmcengineering]

Hi guys, firstly a "hello" as Im new to this forum. I need to replace my LDV (no not an engine sensor thingy or obscure relay, a Leyland Daf), with a long legged quiet motorway cruiser. I am looking at Transporters because I have an Audi A6 and it is simply astounding on economy and comort, and (MAF aside) very reliable. Mercs seem to rust like 70's Datsuns as well, which is disappointing. Quite simply whats the opinion on T4 v's T5's, I have looked at several, and the price achieved by some old T4's is quite frankly astounding for a van of that year and mileage. I'm also seeing the lower spec T5's selling for similar money (and sometimes less!) than equivalent T4's! Normal thinking would dictate that you buy the best balance of newest / condition / spec you can find, but all the T5 owners I've spoken to who've upgraded from T4 say that the build quality and reliability have gone backwards on the newer models. Have I just been unlucky and spoken to a collection of miserable gits, or is the T5 really inferior to the T4? Thanks in advance for any responses and advice for what to check / avoid! I'm only interested in durabilty / reliability and couldn't give a monkeys about styling.

[Brian Considine]

I have noticed the same with prices for late T4's/early T5's too.

I too have spoken to quite a few people who reckon the T4 is more bullet proof than the T5.

Although you have not said where abouts you are the more important thing may be "which engine ?" - if you intend to drive within the M25 you will have to have a euroIII engine from October 2010 & a little later (2012 I think) a euro IV. All to do with the Low Emission Zone & probably coming to a city near you soon in Europe.

Personally, I prefer the T4 but will reluctantly have to change to a T5 (& probably when the facelift comes out with the euroV engine) in a couple of years.

[bdmcengineering]

Thanks for the reply Brian. I'm in (currently rainy) Scotland and often do work in the North of England, so London isn't going to be an issue, but if Manchester / Newcastle eventually follow suit with the emissions caper then that might affect me. Really this is a stopgap vehicle I need for my one man business, by the time the emissions zones roll out to the other UK cities, I'll hopefully be big enough to afford a new T5, or will be bust and doing something else. With just starting up and doing 300 mile commutes, I need to make the right choice on a van for economy and reliability, and I've heard a lot of bad things about T5's, particularly regarding the 1900 gear box and fuel economy, and on the other t5 variants paint quality and numerous electrical / sensor management issues. Has anyone else experienced issues?

[Brian Considine]

My money for the next major city to have a LEZ would be Manchester, although road unfriendly places like Oxford will probably jump in first.

I would go for a late well maintained T4 in your case - the only weak spot I've found with them is that the rear springs tend to break (I've had two go, one each side but always replaced them in pairs). The van is always loaded but not excessibly, although I do quite a lot of towing.

In respect to the T5 regarding sensors I think they do have more of them to go wrong with than the T4. A friend of mine has a T5 & is really pleased with it.

ps - I really must spend some time in Scotland again - been about 10 years.

[paul b]

Like you, bdmcengineering, I am an A6 owner... I'm also a T5 owner...

In the past I've had 2 Fiat Scudos, and a 2003 Renault Trafic. Compared to them, the T5 is so much more comfortable for motorway cruising. There is a well placed rest that I can rest my foot, and the cabin feels very roomy. I'm well impressed.

Mine is a 54 reg 1.9 TDI SWB with almost 104k on the clock. It's had a fair bit of work in the past, including a clutch and flywheel, probably a DMF if thats what they're fitted with.

My friend is a carpet fitter, and he has a T4. He has had so many problems with the glow plug timing, he now has a button he switches on the dash to manually turn them on. Apart from that he loves it, but he says he would only buy another Transporter, in future a T5. So he's expecting the T5 to be an improvement anyway.

Paul

[bdmcengineering]

Thanks for the replies Brian and Paul. I'm going to look at a Modest mileage FSH 88bhp T4 and a 85Bhp T5 on a 54 plate on Monday, hopefully seeing them in the flesh will give me a clue as to what to do. My common sense is telling me to go for the tried and tested T4 as it is a long running model spares are easy and they seem to be bombproof, but I'm not ruling out a T5, good for the business image (as long as it gets where its meant to be going!), I may yet go for one and keep my fingers crossed its a good one. Paul, do you have a 85 or a 104? I'd be interested to know if the 85 has acceptable power, I'm not a speed merchant, but I don't want to be going over Shap at 40 miloes an hour in 3rd gear! The Traffic /Vivaro was originaly on the wish list, I've driven them several times before and reckon them to be quite a pokey van with decent quietness and comfort, so if the T5 is better it must be good indeed. I was put off them because I used to be friendly with a guy who was a gearbox specialist, and he damn near made a living off them alone!
Thanks for your replies, I'll have to choose soon, but any real world advice is greatfuly recieved.

PS Your welcome up here any time brian, its a beatifull place when the suns shining, you get free education and free prescriptions too. But half the population is on drugs, can't read or write and we've got a bunch of communist retards running the place in a building that looks like the kids designed it. Sometimes, I'm happier to be heading south..........

[paul b]

Thanks for the replies Brian and Paul. I'm going to look at a Modest mileage FSH 88bhp T4 and a 85Bhp T5 on a 54 plate on Monday, hopefully seeing them in the flesh will give me a clue as to what to do. My common sense is telling me to go for the tried and tested T4 as it is a long running model spares are easy and they seem to be bombproof, but I'm not ruling out a T5, good for the business image (as long as it gets where its meant to be going!), I may yet go for one and keep my fingers crossed its a good one. Paul, do you have a 85 or a 104? I'd be interested to know if the 85 has acceptable power, I'm not a speed merchant, but I don't want to be going over Shap at 40 miloes an hour in 3rd gear! The Traffic /Vivaro was originaly on the wish list, I've driven them several times before and reckon them to be quite a pokey van with decent quietness and comfort, so if the T5 is better it must be good indeed. I was put off them because I used to be friendly with a guy who was a gearbox specialist, and he damn near made a living off them alone!
Thanks for your replies, I'll have to choose soon, but any real world advice is greatfuly recieved.

PS Your welcome up here any time brian, its a beatifull place when the suns shining, you get free education and free prescriptions too. But half the population is on drugs, can't read or write and we've got a bunch of communist retards running the place in a building that looks like the kids designed it. Sometimes, I'm happier to be heading south..........
Yes, mine is a 85bhp 1.9 TDI. It is also a 54 plate like the one you say you will be viewing. I can only compare mine to the Trafic I had before, and I will say that it feels faster than the Trafic, despite them being pretty much equal on horsepower.

One thing I did notice was, just how much of a difference the right oil makes to the T5s. It came with just some standard oil probably from some mickey mouse garage. However, I used the online Shell LubeMatch tool and put the recommended Shell Helix Ultra 5W-30 into it. What a difference! Now I can fully feel the turbo, and the van is far quieter.

I'd go for a T5, but obviously I'm biased. :p

Paul