T5 Transporter Glow Plug Light, and not starting?

[Mike_T5]

Hi,

I have a problem with my '04 T5 174. Yesterday morning, I jumped in, started up and moved the van back 6ft, so that I could take the midbass speakers out of the doors to try some alternatives. 11 hours later, I had finished, ad went to start the van, and the glow plug light on the dash didn't work, and the van just cranked over without starting. If you turn the ignition on, and leave it on for more than 5 or 10 seconds, the engine cooling fans start spinning. It seems to me, that the van thinks the engine is hot, and doesn't need the glows, and yet, it's stone cold. Any ideas?

Many thanks,

Mike.

[kenney]

Hi You need a fault code read,the fact that the fan starts is not unusal when there is a fault logged in the ECU.

[Mike_T5]

Thanks for the reply Kenney,

Thing is, it's also got the multi function display/computer, and isn't saying there's any kind of fault. Is this normal?

One thing that has crossed my mind, is to locate the glow plug relay, and put power to the plugs by bridging it, just to get the things started so I can get it to the dealer, so they can fix it. Do you know where they usually hide the relays?

[kenney]

The MFD has nothing to do with engine management,faults.Iam thinking since you have been working on the el system can you have done something to blow a fuse.The temp we have now,the engine should start without the glow plugs.I suggest you check all fuses.

[Mike_T5]

Hi Kenney,

I did check for a glow fuse, but couldn't find one. But, as you suggest, I'll check all of them just in case there is a management one gone, or something else. I'm not sure I'd expect it to start without glow though. Just thought of something else though since you mention 'all fuses'... there is a pump underneath the van that runs up for just a second or so when you turn the ignition. I can't recall this working last night, or this morning. Maybe your on the right lines... thanks mate...

[kenney]

In that case fuse 14 and 30.and your engine will start without glow plugs,with the temp there is now.

[Mike_T5]

Hi Kenney,

Ok, I checked all the fuses, and all are fine, including the ones in the fuse box in the engine bay. As I suspected, the pump underneath the van (I suspect is an electric fuel supply pump) isn't working either. :( I also tried to find some relays, and found a few up behind the dash, but none that I can identify as any kind of controller of sorts?

[kenney]

The fuel pump is in the tank,this only works for a few seconds,when you first switch the ignition on.Even if the pump was not working,the engine would have started, with the fuel in the injectors and the tandem pump,only to stop after a short period.So i think you should be looking for a power supply failure to the ECU.you say all the fuses are ok,can you notice anythink else that is not working?.When you turn the ignition on and off,feel the terminal 30 voltage supply relay,in position 4 in the relay carrier electronics box and see if it is clicking.Sorry but i need to ask you a very stupid question,do you know were the fuse box is?

[Mike_T5]

Hi Kenney,

Thanks for your time on this. There are two fuse boxes in the dash in the centre of the cab, and one in the engine bay, next to the battery. I've checked all of the fuses in all three. I don't know if there is another box hidden away somewhere though? As for relays... the ones I found, are up behind the dash on the drivers side. There seem to be two relays close to the bulkhead, and two hefty fuses there, as well as some kind of control unit, of ECU kind of size. I realise that the actual ECU is under the battery somewhere though. I can't find anything else not working, aside from the pump, and glow plug light.

[kenney]

With the ignition on check the voltage on fuses 32 and 33 in the fuse box in the engine bay

[Mike_T5]

OK mate... will head outside again now... :-)

[Mike_T5]

Hi Kenney,

I have 12 volts across both fuses (with fuses in). One of them (33, I think), showed 12 volts on one side of the fuse socket, and 10 volts the other side (with fuse removed).

I have double checked everything I did yesterday, and I couldn't have dislodged anything whilst changing the speakers. I'm starting to get stressed with it now, darned thang!

BTW... I think the engine thinks it's running when I turn the ignition on, as if I ignore the lack of glow light, and crank the engine regardless, after about 5 or 6 seconds, I get a warning chime, and message on the computer saying, 'STOP!', followed by 'Engine Oil Pressure'.

[kenney]

That means your ignition switch is ok,the next step is to remove the battery and the cover to access the electronics box in engine compartment,here you will find the ECU and the current supply relay j317.You will need jump cables to connect the battery to the battery terminals,while you do the next test.As i said before the relay in position 4 you need to feel this or listen to see if is working when you switch the ignition on and off.You can maybe save yourself a lot of work if you could have a fault code read.

[Mike_T5]

Hi Kenney,

Oh dear, it gets worse then :(

I am not sure if it is a wise idea for me to rip it all apart, only to find that perhaps the job will still require a computer hook-up anyway. My mate has the VAG com software, but he changed his laptop, so he needs to re register it. Trouble is, I am in Portishead, Bristol, and the dealer I use is in Westbury, Wiltshire. They are the only VW dealer that I am comfortable with. I don't know what they will charge to recover the van, but the whole thing sounds like a time & expense nightmare, time being the worst part. I really appreciate your help on this, but just don't know what to do now.

Thanks for trying to help.

Mike.

[kenney]

Then you have nothing to loose,by trying to find out if it is the power supply relay.The worst part is,if it is the relay,it wont make any difference if you have or have not diagnostic equipement,you can not enter the engine management.Sounds a bit drastic (rip it all apart) its only a matter of removing the battery and the battery frame and the plastic cover.I had this problem with a vehicle, the van would be okay for a month and then it would not start,5 mins later it would start,no fault codes logged,however it turned out to be the power supply relay.

[Mike_T5]

Mate, you've talked me into it!!! ;) I must confess, that from what you were saying before, it might be just a wasted exercise, but now I can see where you are coming from! I'm going outside with some spanners!... :) What does the relay look like, and where is it located once the battery and tray are out? (just in case I rip it apart and can't find it).

[kenney]

it is in position 4 on the relay carrier

[Mike_T5]

Hi Kenney,

There doesn't seem to be a relay in position 4, but I think the relay you are talking about, is numbered '109'? Anyway, this relay clicks when you turn the ignition on, but the dash lights etc, are no different whether this relay is in, or removed... the same dash lights still come on.

[Mike_T5]

Oh, and if it makes any difference... there are 4 relays on this carrier in total.

[kenney]

109 is the power supply and yes there are 4 relays.have you an e-mail address

[Mike_T5]

Hi Kenney... you have PM.

BTW... the 109 relay seems ok.

[Mike_T5]

Well, for the sake of anyone else who comes across this problem, I will keep this thread updated until the van is sorted. I have now changed the ECU power control relay '109', and the van still won't go. The glow control relay, fuel pump relay, and coolant pump relays are all fine. I have a guy coming hopefully this afternoon with a laptop, to hook up to the computer. I'll let you know how it goes...

[paul b]

Well, for the sake of anyone else who comes across this problem, I will keep this thread updated until the van is sorted. I have now changed the ECU power control relay '109', and the van still won't go. The glow control relay, fuel pump relay, and coolant pump relays are all fine. I have a guy coming hopefully this afternoon with a laptop, to hook up to the computer. I'll let you know how it goes...
Please do... I'm picking up a T5 of my own tomorrow, I hope it doesn't give this trouble. It did have warning lights ablaze when I viewed it, however the garage say they will sort that out. They better not be pulling the bulbs out... because I will know!

Back to your thread... ;)

Paul

[Mike_T5]

Well, the guy didn't show, as he took the day off to celebrate buying a house. I am hoping he can make it tomorrow. THe guy did say to check the brake lights though, as they are linked to the ECU, and all kinds of strange things happen is the brake lights don't work... but, alas, they work.

Paul, you'll love your T5! I pretty much worship the tarmac that my T5 rolls upon. Had it since new, 56k now, and 4 years old. Remapped to 205bhp from 1500 miles. Raven blue, all the toys, and a lovely SQ sound system... I'm lovin' it... or would if it would start! ;)

[Mike_T5]

Oh, just noticed that under mu username on here, it says 'Engine Idling' instead of 'stalled'! Maybe it's a sign... I'll go and try it!...:D

[Mike_T5]

Nah... still broken!

[paul b]

Oh, just noticed that under mu username on here, it says 'Engine Idling' instead of 'stalled'! Maybe it's a sign... I'll go and try it!...:D
That's to do with your post count and post frequency... but I like your thinking! ;)

Paul

[Mike_T5]

No harm in wishful thinking. The van might not go, but I've not had a 'humour bypass' over it :p

[Mike_T5]

Well, I definitely think the van is broken! Hooked up to computer today, and it firstly wouldn't communicate with the ECU, so he went into ABS instead, which had '04FC Pump short circuit/negative fault/positive fault', and '0522 Communication failure with ECU'. I spoke to the dealer for some time, and they reckoned that it was a power supply problem to the ECU. But, the fuses are ok, and 109 relay is fine. I am currently trying to arrange for it to be recovered to the dealer (£180) so that they can sort it. I've pretty much given up.

Special thanks to Kenney on here, for all your help! I will keep you updated with the outcome.

Thanks,

Mike.

[kenney]

replace the following fuses 20, 19, 32 in fuse box engine comp and fuse 34 in upper, fuse box,inside,its worth a try!sometimes when you use a multimeter you can get a faulty reading

[Mike_T5]

Hi guys,

Time for an update... I have just got the van back... the ECU was dead. All is good now, albeit slow at a standard 174PS again. Gonna have to get mapped again! Or, get the old ECU repaired and remapped.

Kenney... thank you so much for all your time and effort in helping me to try to sort this!!! I greatly appreciate it. :beerchug:

Best regards,

Mike.

[john s smith]

Hi,
I have a 2001 VW T4 2.5TDI rectangular headlights.
The thing refuses to start. It started before the very cold spell just before Christmas then we had some very cold weather down to –10C. I tried to start it but refused the occasional fire and some smoke. I managed to start it by removing the intercooler and removing the valve on top of the rocker cover, then with a hot air gun in the hole started the engine after some time. It ran ok so I started to put the removed items back with the engine running. After about 5 minutes I pressed the pedal to increase engine speed all seemed ok then it stopped and refused to start again. I have replaced the fuel filter and no air leaks or bubbles; cracked open the injector feeds to bleed all ok.
I removed the timing cover for the injection pump to check the timing it looks ok but not sure if the injector pump is on a keyway or a taper fit, so need to know if it is on a keyway or not. I have removed the Air flow meter makes no difference. Putting the heat gun down the square hole leaves the only way I can get a glimmer of life out of it when one removes the intercooler and valve. The valve is ok and the air operated plunger works ok when sucked.

How much of the electronics can be disconnected and still leave the engine to start.

Is it possible that the engine cut off valve is faulty? How does one remove the radiator to get access to the injectors and glow plugs?

Need your help please, cold, damp, wet, cheesed off, fed up, you know the rest.

Yours John S Smith

[Mike_T5]

Hi Mate,

This problem has got 'Glow plugs' written all over it! Your plugs are either worn out, blown, or the control circuit is at fault.

If it starts and runs in the way you said, it is nothing mechanical, or fuel system related.

Aside from that, I'm not familiar with the T4

Good luck

[kenney]

There is a possibiliy you have more than one fault,it might be a good idea to have a fault code read first,The fact that it did start when you removed the intercooler and stopped when you replaced it,suggests the engine is not getting air,have a look at the air filter.A faulty stop valve will show up on a diagnosis.