Touran Cooling Fans and 'Intake manifold flap motor problem?

[Matt B]

Sorry for the long note but please read as I’m a bit baffled!!

I have a 04 Touran 2.0TDI Sport which I have had from new, it has just past 80K miles and it has been a good car. However the week before Christmas when the fog was bad a warning came on the display ‘Emission workshop’ and the orange engine light came on. This was after a long run, stopped for 10 minutes, then the engine started back. The car ran fine (and still is) I booked in to the local VW dealer straight after Christmas for a diagnostic check and the computer displayed two faults:
1) ‘Cooling fans inop’ 2) ‘Intake manifold flap motor faulty’ The VW dealer said it needed the two cooling fans replacing and the intake manifold flap motor (what the hell is this?!) replacing,(part no. 038128063G) the total cost being £742. I have a non VW after market warranty (due to passing the 60K mileage) and they will only cover the cooling fans (there are two of them) which is £340. The VW dealer recommending leaving the car as it was not safe to use (they said it would overheat) I didn’t leave the car, the cooling fans are on back order from Germany and will take 2 weeks+
The car is working as normal and I can not get it to ‘overheat’ I want to test the cooling fans myself. The temp rises steadily to 90 deg.C (as it always has done) but I can not get it to go above this (despite leaving it idling on the drive for 90mins.) therefore the fans have not started. The fans rotate freely and the fuse is OK.

My questions (at last!) are:
1) At what temp should the fans cut in and is it likely that both cooling fans should fail
2) Would the failure of the cooling fans coincide with the failure of the ‘intake manifold flap motor’
3) Would the car run normally if these two items had failed? ( I have driven it for a for nearly two weeks without any noticeable effect)
4) My local non dealer village garage (the traditional type!) finds it highly unlikely that the cooling fans would fail, and also investigated with his VAG parts supplier who advised him that they had supplied 26 ‘intake manifold flap motors’ last year (2006) which was extraordinarily high) He has a A4 had doesn’t always believe stored faults!

I have had the faults cleared but they returned straight away on start up. I am concerned that I am going to have the work done by the VW garage only for the fault to lie elsewhere (maybe a simple fault)

Two things that may have a factor: 1) I had a new timing belt and pulleys fitted by a VW dealer in mid November. 2) The car has always had from day one a minor slightly irritating fault where the idle can be lumpy (small judder) at times (noticeable on an incline) The fault could never be traced or rectified so in the end I just lived with it (it is intermittent and only noticeable to people if you point it out)

Can any one help before I spend money?

Matt B

[Dave Avant]

Diesel due to their nature of running efficiently generate less heat than the petrol counterparts. If was a petrol engine then I'd be more warey.

Anyway Unless its the middle of summer and you are in a jam or slogging up a steep hill, the fans very rarely come on. I've tried when servicing diesels to get the fan on with no luck - just to check them.

Keep an eye on the guage, it should stay in the middle, if it starts to rise (shouldn't do whilst driving) eg in a jam, then switch the heater on full with max heat and turn the aircon to ECON, this should dissapate most of the heat, if not and you can't move, turn the engine off until you can move. The aircon probably won't work anyway if the fans are inop. as the system cuts off if it not being cooled by the rad fans.

[JohnnyBee]

JUst another pointer for you, Matt; those fans in my experience do not wear out or fail electrically; their only probem as Dave says is that they tend to seize through lack of use.
If they rotate OK then you can bet they are OK; however just to check, try warming the motor as far as it goes, then start the aircon system; you should find that the centre fan starts up as soon as the system is energised.
If it doesn't run, remembering that these fans are constant live / switched earth, the odds are that it's the fan switch in the rad tank that's causing the problem, and also showing an open circuit to the ECU self-checking system.
That could make the difference between a £700 bill and a DIY £11.50 job, so it's worth checking out properly before you go scooting off to the VW main dealersip.
As for your 'inlet flap motor' problem, it is a simple actuator that controls the inlet air flap, which in turn stops air from getting into the engine when you turn off - no air, no further combustion.
For safety reasons the flap is biased to the open position - otherwise you'd never start the thing at all - and only closes when the engine is still turning but with the ignition switch feed absent.
I'd normally say 'bin it', but as it's tied into the ECM warning system it would continue to show warnings and be a general PITA.
JB.

[Ben]

I'm 2nd owner to my new golf mk5 gt tdi feb04 53 reg. I got it at the end of November from Listers Stratford. I started it on Thursday 28th Dece to find the emissions fault warning light on. (drive slowly to nearest dealer) Living in coventry, with some stuff to do in Birmingham, I ended up at Birmingham VW, who couldn't and wouldn't do anything till at least the 1st week of Jan 07. So i rang Tamworth VW and spoke to DES BLEWITT service manager. If i could get it to him by 13.00 hrs he may be able to have me on the road b4 new year. I asked about VW assistance and he said to give them a call as they carry selected parts on their vehicles. I spoke to a very helpful lady and she booked me in for an appointment between 11am and 2pm that day at my work address in Lichfield and i would be kept up to date via text msg. On my way to Lichfield from Birmingham I got a text "VW technician will be with you by 10.55AM".
They were spot on time. Diagnosed the fault, lubricated - a temporary fix, get it to a dealer (the fault was a motor that opens an inlet vent to allow air to the turbo when the accelerator is pressed. its ok to drive at slow speeds). Back on the phone to DES BLEWITT, explained the fault, got the car to him by 14.00hrs, he called me later to explain that i'm still under manufacturers warranty(its quicker to 'sort' than with an extended warranty), Milton Keynes factory have the part in stock, it will be overnighted and I should be on the road by the end of Fri 29th Dece. On Fri 29th Dece DES BLEWITT called, my car was ready and it was only 10.30 am. NOT BAD SERVICE 24HRS AFTER CALLING VW ASSISTANCE.

Incidently, the part cost £300ish not including the labour, so i'm glad i bought an extended warranty, I only need one claim and my costs are covered. Never had VW before. This level of service will not go untold.

[Ben]

you have an electronic sensor somewhere to do with you accelerator pedal, this sensor is able to tell when you press the pedal for more power thus it sends a signal to the intake manifold flap motor to open the flap to allow air in to the turbo. the one on my car screwed up and that is what the vw assistance man said.

i got it repaired F O C on the warranty.

[VWTDIMAN]

I own an 04 Mk V Golf GT Tdi Sport. I have noticed since purchasing the vehicle in August 2006, that the idling has never been quite right. Initial diagnosis suggested a software update which improved the problem. However, after speaking to BOB POWNEY at Helston VW here in Cornwall, he suggested that after a thorough diagnostic check, the Intake Manifold Flap was faulty and needed replacement. The part alone is 272.75 + VAT. As the car was only a month or so out of warranty VW paid have the cost and Helston VW paid a quarter. Instead of a £500 bill, I had a £125 bill; much more manageable. Praise to BOB POWNEY for sorting this out and allowing me to avoid a large bill!

I suspect many of the early VW MkV 2.0 Diesel Sport engines have this fault as initially when I test drove the car after purchase, I noticed a significant turbo lag when accelerating. After the new Intake Manifold Flap was fitted, the problem has now gone away. The problem had caused a strange clicking noise coming from the dashboard (not the air con ticking sound) when the air con is off.

Incidentally, the car had done just 27,147 miles.

Despite all the above, the car is a superb one to drive and has exceeded all my expectations.

[Andy Mc]

Similar problem on A5 Octavias, intake flap motor fault, blows the cooling fan fuse.

[TurboBob]

Andy Mc - you're absolutely right. I have just had the same problem with same symptoms.
1) Air Con inefficient when stationary (as cooling fans are off)
2) Replace F24 while engine runs and cooling fans start running and aircon cold
3) Shudder from engine when turn ignition off
4) Fuse 24 blows again
5) P2108 fault code when scanned

Replaced the Throttle Actuator Controller or Intake flapper motor and all is now well

Regards

Rob