cam belt interval

[lucifer]

Hi all,

I have spoken with 2 dealerships and was given conflicting responses.
One said it was due change at 60K the other 80K. Does anyone out there have the definitive answer?

My car is a 53 plate A4 Avant 1.9 tdi (130)

Also is this engine a PD?

Thanks

[Dave Avant]

60,000miles on the TDi, I think 80K is the petrol variants. Says in the service handbook.

Usually changed with the tensioner pulley and is around £400 at Audi, luckily mine was done before I bought mine. Although when I aksed audi they said it hadn't been done!!

Yes it is a PD.

[lucifer]

Thanks,

Spoke to Audi Peterborough service dept this morning, told me my vehicle was definately not a PD. Nice to know £95 per hour gets you quality advice (not!)

[Dave Avant]

What is the engine code? Nowadays they change the engine spec more often than underwear.

If its a 130 PD it will have the engine code AWX, check either on the label in the front of your handbook or on the cambelt cover of the engine, there is a label with the code (barcode) too.

Or let me know what the first 3 letters are and I'll find out.

[lucifer]

Thanks, will check code.

What's best oil to use when I do a change?

[Dave Avant]

I've heard, if it is a PD engine, then it likes good oil as VAG specified a higher spec due to the 'load' on the cam to run the injectors. Plus its a turbo and they also like good oil.

I've just changed my oil, I used Mobil 1, as it has a low oil capacity (less than 4 litres) its OK to buy a fully synthetic as most only come in 4 litre bottles and with my previous cars I've had to buy 2 bottles. Castrol Magnatec is good, this is a semi oil. Castrol Edge is good, this is a fully synthetic.

I also use engine oil flush before putting new oil in, keeps it a bit cleaner, although a diesel blacks the oil quickly.

[lucifer]

Does it need to be a fully synthetic oil to keep it on the variable service?

[Dave Avant]

I think so, or as Audi calls it, long life oil.

Are you doing the service yourself? The reason I ask is when the service indicator is reset, if you want a variable service interval, this has to be done via the Diagnostic computer. You can reset the service via the dash but this is a fixed 10,000mile interval which does actually vary upon how the car is driven.

[lucifer]

The service is getting done by an independant, so not sure if he will have the tools to reset via the diagnostic computer.
He said he uses Q8 Formula G long life 5w-30 oil.

[hoops1961]

I drive an A4 1.9TDi SE (130) on a 53 plate so was interested in your post because mine has done 57000 miles. Went to Audi York and they said interval was 60000 and would cost in region of £300-350. Went back (for another reason a couple of weeks later) and they checked chassis number of my car, looked through pages of data and on a computer and said 80000 miles. Went to an independent VW-Audi garage in Leeds and they said 60000 miles was best because Audi had tinkered with intervals but had had some problems as a result of doing this. The garage said they also replaced tensioners, rollers and water pump at the same time qutoing £340+VAT. This garage certainly seemed to know what they were talking about and were confident in their work. Got back to Audi dealership who again checked chassis number of my car and said it was 60000 miles and would cost £360, but that the tensioners also needed replacing and the total cost would then be £430. If I wanted rollers and water pump doing too they would do that but it would add more to the cost (in the region of £100). Dealership did not fill me with same confidence because mileage kept changing every time I visited. Have booked car in at independent garage. Hope this helps - it seems very confusing!

[jak]

60000 miles or 4years. Audi did mine when i bought it with 43000 miles on it-2 mths short of 4years

[Teutonic_Tamer]

The service is getting done by an independant, so not sure if he will have the tools to reset via the diagnostic computer.
He said he uses Q8 Formula G long life 5w-30 oil.

Noooooooo.

Q8 Formula G LongLife 5w30 has NO VAG approval (it is a Vauxhall longlife oil). Drain the fe%&er out and refil proper PD oil with the VW standard 505.01 for fixed interval or 506.01 for LongLife. If the oil has neither of those VW standards, it will ruin your engine.

PD engines, of which yours definately is, have extremely high demands and requirements of their oil. Use non-PD approved oil, and you will be looking at a top-end only (if you catch it early enough) rebuild.

Read your owners manual (not the service book - it is a generic book for all models) very carefully, and it will tell you the exact VW standard of oil to use.

Rgds

[skymaster]

I Too am very confused by the cambelt interval on my car. It's also a 53 plate TDI 130 BHP PD engine.

When I worked at VW the PD TDIs were always a 60k cambelt change. However I do remember Passats on about an 04 plate changing to 80k. My service book says 80k for all 4 cylider turbo diesels but I am not keen to risk leaving it longer than it should be.

code is AVF according to the data sticker in the book.

Somewhere Audi should have a sheet with all the engine codes and intervals on it. I know form working in a dealers that telephone advice from the booking in staff can vary dramatically. There is a certain amount of making it up as they go along.

[skymaster]

Also one for teutonic, I just changed my oil with Quantum Longlife 0W-30 vw 503.00/506.00/506.01 APPROVED. Friend at dealers said this is exactly the same as the castrol SLX oil but just marketed for the trade as opposed to retail markets.

Did I do right???

[Teutonic_Tamer]

I Too am very confused by the cambelt interval on my car. It's also a 53 plate TDI 130 BHP PD engine.

When I worked at VW the PD TDIs were always a 60k cambelt change. However I do remember Passats on about an 04 plate changing to 80k. My service book says 80k for all 4 cylider turbo diesels but I am not keen to risk leaving it longer than it should be.

code is AVF according to the data sticker in the book.

I can't give a concrete answer to this. On the Vauxhalls I used to work on, the manufacturer stipulated interval was 80k miles or 8 years, whichever came first. Then Vauxhall suddenly started issuing revised "guidance" to dealers and owners, downgrading the interval to 36-40k miles or 4 years, whichever came first. They never went as far as formally changing this though.

There are a number of issues regarding on deciding when to change a timing belt. The first issue is the natural degridation life cycle of rubber - all rubber components, but particularly timing belts, auxillary drive belts (power steering, alternator, air-con), and tyres should be changed at 6 years old. Rubber ages from ozone which is naturally present in the atmosphere, and the 6-year limit has been established for quite a while now. Tyres are easy to check their age, from the 3 or 4 digit code on the sidewall - timing belts are not so easy to check!

Another issue is the degridation of the tensioners, rollers and belt guides. The bearings in the rollers and tensioners can wear, leading to play and therefore fluctuating tension, and also incorrect tracking of the belt. The spring in automatic tensioners can loose their "tension", allowing the belt to flap and flail. Belt guides, and non-metallic rollers can physically wear out, causing damage to the edge of the belt.

So - my personal advice for timing belt (and all associated rollers, tensioners, guides and auxillary drivebelts) changes would be 40k miles or 4 years! Remember, £200-300 on a belt change is much cheaper than £1,500-2,000 for reparing engine damage from belt failure.


Somewhere Audi should have a sheet with all the engine codes and intervals on it. I know form working in a dealers that telephone advice from the booking in staff can vary dramatically. There is a certain amount of making it up as they go along.

Ahh - tell me about it - I have yet to get the same advice twice for the same questions!


Also one for teutonic, I just changed my oil with Quantum Longlife 0W-30 vw 503.00/506.00/506.01 APPROVED. Friend at dealers said this is exactly the same as the castrol SLX oil but just marketed for the trade as opposed to retail markets.

Did I do right???

Quantum is VAG own-brand lubricants, usually for dealership retail or trade sales. The dealers commercial, or bulk supply can come from whoever they have a contract with, and that can be either Castrol, Shell, or Mobil (very worrying, as Mobil 1 is NOT VAG approved!). I have yet to find a definative answer on who makes it, but I don't think it is the same as the relevent Castrol SLX LL2, because the Castrol global company has their "own" brands for certain different markets. In the UK, Castrol EDGE is now the retail range, whereas the trade range is still SLX. Castrol also markets (and owns) Duckhams and BP oils. In Germany and most parts of mainland western europe, the exact same UK Casrtol "brews" are sold under either Veedol or Aral brands.

The Quantum stuff you quoted above is perfectly acceptable for LongLife petrols (except certain high performance petrols), and all diesels (inc PD).

Rgds

[Dave Avant]

That Castrol Edge is bladdy expensive, but did see it my trade supplier and it was a fair bit cheaper, i think it was on offer, but can't remember the price as it was a wee while ago. I used Mobil 1 in my diesel PD.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

I used Mobil 1 in my diesel PD.

Ohh dear, I'd drain the fec&er out - Mobil 1 is NOT VAG approved, and certainly will cause damage to PD engines.


That Castrol Edge is bladdy expensive, but did see it my trade supplier and it was a fair bit cheaper, i think it was on offer, but can't remember the price as it was a wee while ago.

The reason Castrol EDGE (the VAG spec one) is expensive, is because it is a far superior, OEM only spec oil to the generic brew, overtly hyped advertised, that is Mobil 1

Rgds

[Dave Avant]

Ohh dear, I'd drain the fec&er out - Mobil 1 is NOT VAG approved, and certainly will cause damage to PD engines.



The reason Castrol EDGE (the VAG spec one) is expensive, is because it is a far superior, OEM only spec oil to the generic brew, overtly hyped advertised, that is Mobil 1

Rgds


Castrol and Vag will have a contract to suit them both!! Castrol get business from people thinking they can only use Castrol and Vag get discount on Castrol oil for servicing. The castrol stuff is good, but not far superior and others won't damage the engine. Recomendation on oil tubs are marketing by both the manufacturer and oil company. Mobil also have the VW number recomendation for the longlife sevices which correspond to the service handbook.

Companies do this 'recomended' stuff all the time to suit them both and get a good deal out of each other, nothing to do with other oils not being suitable.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Castrol and Vag will have a contract to suit them both!!

Er hello - welcome to the real world of business! :banghead: That is what happens in the commercial world, doncha know!


Castrol get business from people thinking they can only use Castrol

No, Castrol get business from VAG owning Joe Public on the sole grounds that Castrol produce a wide range of lubricants, some of which were soley developed for VAG product requirements. Castrol also get business from the general public on the grounds that Castrol is deemed to be a high quality, highly dependable product, and a product which is regularly tested to extremes, and continuously developed, on a global scale in global and domestic forms of motorsport and aviation (Formua 1, WRC, BTCC, MotoGP, WSB, BSB, RedBull AirRace). And yes, they use marketing to their advantage, just like any organisation would!


and Vag get discount on Castrol oil for servicing.

No - individual franchises are free to choose their suppliers of bulk oils from whoever they like.


The castrol stuff is good, but not far superior

The Castrol "stuff", which has the appropriate VW approvals, is very good, and I would go as far to say superior than others, because Castrol was the sole technical lubricants partner to VAG. If Castrol can't make the perfect oil to meet the VAG standard which was jointly developed between VAG and Castrol, then nobody can!


and others won't damage the engine.

Erm, I'm afraid you are very misguided. Firstly, the VAG PD TDI engines have an extremely strict and demanding requirement from their engine oil. The use of a non-PD approved oil WILL cause engine damage to the camshafts and unit injectors. Secondly, any engine damage or failure from issues relating lubrication during the warranty period, VAG will insist on an oil sample to be submitted for detailed analysis. Any oil found not to meet the required VW oil standard WILL have the warranty claim REJECTED. There is independent documentary evidence to this effect available in the public domain.


Recomendation on oil tubs are marketing by both the manufacturer and oil company.

In most respects, you are very, very wrong. Go and read the sticky thread, in full, on oil labeling http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1482. This was started by "oilman" who is a trader - he refused to answer any of my comments in the last post of the thread. There are basically two types of tests - the "generic" specifications for all makes, such as the API and ACEA standards, which can be carried out in any accredited laboratory (which could even be the oil companies own lab). There are then the manufacturer specific or OEM approvals - in most cases (VAG definately) these tests can ONLY be carried out by the manufactures own lab.


Mobil also have the VW number recomendation for the longlife sevices which correspond to the service handbook.

No - Mobil do NOT have any current VAG LongLife approval (there is a very new Mobil ESP oil which they claim has the latest 504.00, 507.00 standards). The "standard" Mobil 1 you get from ********* or elsewhere has a number of un-proved and un-tested claims. I'll give the full detail of true and fake approvals for you: Mobil 1 does have a viscosity of 0W40 as tested by the SAE, it does have the API performance classification of SL/CF, it does have the performance quality classifications of ACEA A3, B3, B4. These are all generic standards. Then there are the fake, untested and unproven manufacturer OEM standards - it claims to "meet" the VW standards 502.00, 505.00, 503.01 - this is a fake and false claim, because VW (the ONLY people who can grant these standards) have NEVER approved any Mobil oil to these standards. Then there is the General Motors/Vauxhall/Opel longlife standards LL-A-025, LL-B-025 - again, never been tested, approved or certified by GM, the same with the claim of the BMW longlife-01 standard, the Porsche OEM approval and the SAAB oem approval - all fake and NOT certified.

But hey - if you wanna ruin you nice Audi engine, then fine - just don't tell others on this forum to do so! :angryfire :rant:


Companies do this 'recomended' stuff all the time to suit them both and get a good deal out of each other, nothing to do with other oils not being suitable.

Again, you are very wrong and very misguided.

Rgds

[Huweth]

The last I heard it had been reduced to 40k or 4 years.
Some clarity would be nice, but I doubt we'll ever get it as they change their minds so much! I'd rather get it done more often to be safe than push my luck.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

The last I heard it had been reduced to 40k or 4 years.

That doesn't surprise me.


Some clarity would be nice, but I doubt we'll ever get it as they change their minds so much!

Again, that don't surprise me. Clarity from VW service departments seems to be lacking in their vocabulary.


I'd rather get it done more often to be safe than push my luck.

Very wise, and sensible!

Rgds

[Dave Avant]

Er hello - welcome to the real world of business! :banghead: That is what happens in the commercial world, doncha know!



No, Castrol get business from VAG owning Joe Public on the sole grounds that Castrol produce a wide range of lubricants, some of which were soley developed for VAG product requirements. Castrol also get business from the general public on the grounds that Castrol is deemed to be a high quality, highly dependable product, and a product which is regularly tested to extremes, and continuously developed, on a global scale in global and domestic forms of motorsport and aviation (Formua 1, WRC, BTCC, MotoGP, WSB, BSB, RedBull AirRace). And yes, they use marketing to their advantage, just like any organisation would!



No - individual franchises are free to choose their suppliers of bulk oils from whoever they like.



The Castrol "stuff", which has the appropriate VW approvals, is very good, and I would go as far to say superior than others, because Castrol was the sole technical lubricants partner to VAG. If Castrol can't make the perfect oil to meet the VAG standard which was jointly developed between VAG and Castrol, then nobody can!



Erm, I'm afraid you are very misguided. Firstly, the VAG PD TDI engines have an extremely strict and demanding requirement from their engine oil. The use of a non-PD approved oil WILL cause engine damage to the camshafts and unit injectors. Secondly, any engine damage or failure from issues relating lubrication during the warranty period, VAG will insist on an oil sample to be submitted for detailed analysis. Any oil found not to meet the required VW oil standard WILL have the warranty claim REJECTED. There is independent documentary evidence to this effect available in the public domain.



In most respects, you are very, very wrong. Go and read the sticky thread, in full, on oil labeling http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1482. This was started by "oilman" who is a trader - he refused to answer any of my comments in the last post of the thread. There are basically two types of tests - the "generic" specifications for all makes, such as the API and ACEA standards, which can be carried out in any accredited laboratory (which could even be the oil companies own lab). There are then the manufacturer specific or OEM approvals - in most cases (VAG definately) these tests can ONLY be carried out by the manufactures own lab.



No - Mobil do NOT have any current VAG LongLife approval (there is a very new Mobil ESP oil which they claim has the latest 504.00, 507.00 standards). The "standard" Mobil 1 you get from ********* or elsewhere has a number of un-proved and un-tested claims. I'll give the full detail of true and fake approvals for you: Mobil 1 does have a viscosity of 0W40 as tested by the SAE, it does have the API performance classification of SL/CF, it does have the performance quality classifications of ACEA A3, B3, B4. These are all generic standards. Then there are the fake, untested and unproven manufacturer OEM standards - it claims to "meet" the VW standards 502.00, 505.00, 503.01 - this is a fake and false claim, because VW (the ONLY people who can grant these standards) have NEVER approved any Mobil oil to these standards. Then there is the General Motors/Vauxhall/Opel longlife standards LL-A-025, LL-B-025 - again, never been tested, approved or certified by GM, the same with the claim of the BMW longlife-01 standard, the Porsche OEM approval and the SAAB oem approval - all fake and NOT certified.

But hey - if you wanna ruin you nice Audi engine, then fine - just don't tell others on this forum to do so! :angryfire :rant:



Again, you are very wrong and very misguided.

Rgds

So you agree with me that Castrol and VAG calaborated together to make the recomended oil. I'm not saying Mobil 1 is better or Castrol isn't. But if I took your post to the letter and the only oil to put in a Vag engine is Castrol Edge then you would see alot of VAG cars in the scrapper as I can bet you that when a VAG car is serviced away from the dealer that Castrol Edge will not always be used or infact a non VAG approved oil.

But your post has given me food for thought, maybe I'll some some Edge stuff next time as the VAG engine doesn't have a large oil capacity thus only one bottle is needed. :D

One question though, if Castrol is the only approved oil, why does it only state the relevant numbers in the handbook, which you say are fake on other brands, when it should say only use Castrol? Just wondering.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

So you agree with me that Castrol and VAG calaborated together to make the recomended oil.

No - you did NOT state that Castrol and VAG collaborated. That was MY statement. You merely stated "Castrol and Vag will have a contract to suit them both" - there is nothing in your statement about the OEM partnership, which I described!


I'm not saying Mobil 1 is better or Castrol isn't.

And I never stated that either. What I did state was Castrol has a range of oils tested and approved by VW for a wide range of VAG applications. Mobil 1 has no VW approvals. Therefore, as this forum relates directly to VW and Audi products, and indirectly to all marques within the VAG stable, it is perfectly reasonable to state that Castrol are better than Mobil, for that main reason of OEM testing and approval.


But if I took your post to the letter and the only oil to put in a Vag engine is Castrol Edge

Please do not misquote me. I never said the only oil for a VAG engine was Castrol. I stated that Castrol was the sole OEM partner with VAG to develop the required VW standards. There are a whole range of other lubricants manufacturers who have since blended oils to the required standard, and then submitted them to the VW labs for testing and accreditation. Mobil 1 was NOT submitted to VW for testing and approval!


then you would see alot of VAG cars in the scrapper as I can bet you that when a VAG car is serviced away from the dealer that Castrol Edge will not always be used or infact a non VAG approved oil.

Firstly, it is the PD TDIs which have the most demanding requirements of their oil. Secondly, the PD TDIs did have clear guidance in their manuals of the specific oil requirements. Thirdly, I would hazzard a guess that a vast majority of modern VWs still get serviced at a franchised dealer (VW owners tend to be more loyal to their main dealers than say Ford, Vauxhall or Rover). Lastly, as I have previously stated, there are a number of reported PD engine failures from incorrect oils in the public domain - and I would suggest that those failures reported are merely a tiny proportion of the true numbers. Not every VAG PD TDI owner logs onto VWAudiForum.co.uk (though Stuart probably wishes they did ;) ), or similar boards, nor do they read the motoring mags on a regular basis. The simple fact is that those who do suffer engine damage from the wrong oil are told of their mistakes and simply pay-up for the garage to carry out the repair with no more questions being asked!


But your post has given me food for thought, maybe I'll some some Edge stuff next time as the VAG engine doesn't have a large oil capacity thus only one bottle is needed. :D

One question though, if Castrol is the only approved oil, why does it only state the relevant numbers in the handbook, which you say are fake on other brands, when it should say only use Castrol? Just wondering.

Castrol would be my personal recommendation, based on the fact they were the "orginal" OEM brew - they are not the only approved oil. As I mention earlier in this answer, other oil companies have the required VW standard, BP, Elf, Q8, Motul, Total and Fuchs all have legitimate VW approvals. The only "fake" oil is Mobil 1, an oil originating from America, where marketing takes presidence over the truth!

Rgds

[Huweth]

Um, with all due respect gentlemen, this post is about cambelt intervals, not oil. Can we keep to the subject? I'm still interested in the 'history' behind the oils, but perhaps it would be best suited to a 'sticky' somewhere. That way people can find it easily and read it before making their choice of oil...

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Um, with all due respect gentlemen, this post is about cambelt intervals, not oil.

The "title" of the thread may be cam belt interval, but lucifer, the OP, also asked about the proper oil for his motor too ;)


Can we keep to the subject?

We are - sort of. What else about cam belt intervals would you like to know Huw???? ;) :p :D


I'm still interested in the 'history' behind the oils,

Fascinating, innit! ;)


but perhaps it would be best suited to a 'sticky' somewhere. That way people can find it easily and read it before making their choice of oil...

There is a sticky - from the forum start page (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/index.php), > "Technical Section" (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=28), > "Maintenance, Problems & Misc Parts Questions" (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=29), > "Oil labelling explained" (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1482), 5-star rated too! I put the linky in post #19 too.

Rgds

[Huweth]

Yadda yadda yadda...
Forgive me, but I'm of the opinion 'one thread, one question'. I feel it makes it easier when people are searching for stuff. Then again, I'm off topic now!
Must be a bit of a purist at heart...

P.s. with regards 'what else about cambelt intervals' I'd like to know. I'd love to read about factors that ACTUALLY affect the intervals. That is, production techniques, materials, environmental conditions, style of driving, engine mods etc...
Best in another thread though! lol

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Yadda yadda yadda...
Forgive me, but I'm of the opinion 'one thread, one question'. I feel it makes it easier when people are searching for stuff. Then again, I'm off topic now!
Must be a bit of a purist at heart...

P.s. with regards 'what else about cambelt intervals' I'd like to know. I'd love to read about factors that ACTUALLY affect the intervals. That is, production techniques, materials, environmental conditions, style of driving, engine mods etc...
Best in another thread though! lol

My mind wanders, it must be my age :1zhelp: . . . now what were we talking about . . . ;) :p :D