Max power out of 130TDi

[craig.scoobsvil]

Can anyone advise me on the most effective way of gaining power from a 130 TDi Bora? It is chipped to approx 160 by Turbopacs in the north east but this was done before I bought the car. I am thinking of a Golf GT TDi FMIC and perhaps in the future a bigger Turbo. Would this work? I know little about the current breed of high power Turbo Diesel engines and previosly owned a Subaru for 5 years which I knew inside out. Is there an Injector upgrade that fits this car? I am basically going down a similar route to what I did with the Scooby but have no idea if I'm totally off track. Please advise. Ta very mucho!

[gbrad2x]

Sell it and buy a 1.8 t?

[craig.scoobsvil]

No chance. The mileage I do I can't afford to run a petrol and without trying to sound smart the TDi pulls like a freight train as it is now and I am more than happy with my choice of Diesel car but I am on the hunt for more from it, I doubt the 1.8t would pull like a 160 bhp Turbo Diesel. The torque is incredible!

[gbrad2x]

Being a diesel owner I know how you feel. I think if you were to go any higher you would be spending big bucks with turbos injectors stronger clutches etc and also reducing the reliability of your car.

If it aint broken............. good luck with it

[adamss24]

Can anyone advise me on the most effective way of gaining power from a 130 TDi Bora? It is chipped to approx 160 by Turbopacs in the north east but this was done before I bought the car. I am thinking of a Golf GT TDi FMIC and perhaps in the future a bigger Turbo. Would this work? I know little about the current breed of high power Turbo Diesel engines and previosly owned a Subaru for 5 years which I knew inside out. Is there an Injector upgrade that fits this car? I am basically going down a similar route to what I did with the Scooby but have no idea if I'm totally off track. Please advise. Ta very mucho!
How much you wanna spend? www.kermatdi.com sells special cast or tubular manifolds wich will let you fit a Garrett VNT 20 to any vag 8 valves Tdi engine. That has the potential to flow over 250 Bhp with no mods. Then higher flow injectors and lift pump, front mounted intercooler, uprated clutch and a quality custom remap should push the horsepower to over 250 and 450-500Nm of torque. A quaife or peloquin diff will let you put the power on the road nicely, without spinning the wheels ! After that, NOS or propane injection will up the stakes even further....
In Europe, Dahlbach racing has a few Tdi with over 500 Bhp at the crank, also there is a crazy guy in Chech Republik wich custom builts high power Tdi as well in his workshop ! See www.allardmotorcompany.com as well for more tunning options. I own a 98 a4 quattro, on wich i have transplanted a new 3.0L block mated to 2.5 Tdi Ake 180 Bhp cylinder heads. For the moment i am happy as it is (about 250 Bhp at the wheels and 450Nm torque!) as the clutch wont take more abuse and i average 27Mpg if i drive like a coffin dodger ! I like to pray on sports cars as well...you should see their faces when they see a black cloud of smoke and see the diesel badge o the boot !

[craig.scoobsvil]

The cost not being too much of an issue compared to what I spent on the Scooby didn't really put me off but you have touched on something that I have already given a lot of thought to, RELIABILITY! Thats the key factor and I think apart from something simple like a FMIC the rest will possibly stay 'as is'. Like I said, it does go better than I could have ever imagined any Diesel could ever go so I'm just being picky and if I'm honest probably trying to match what the Sub was doing but I know deep down that will never happen.

[craig.scoobsvil]

Cheers Adam. Your advice sounds something like what I am searchin for and will obviously compromise the reliability. Decisions decisions. I don't know now whether you've helped or made thing more complicated. I suppose I can't have my cake and eat it! Watch this space........................

[adamss24]

Actually, when upgrading parts on a standard car and the power increase, you need to find and fix the next weak link in the chain. The stock clutch is fine to 350 Nm of torque. Most custom remaps just ups the horsepower and limit the torque to conserve the clutch and even then, the clutch starts to slip and will take the duall mass flywheel with....The solution its a stronger pressure plate and/or an uprated clutch plate. This will give you tigh aches every time you take it for a spin ! Diesel engines are far stronger than petrol ones and the 1.8T is known to go over 350 Bhp without upgrading the internals. To reliably tune a Tdi, you need to lower compression slightly, then fit high flow injectors, help it breathe better and keep it cool, then to put the power on the road and its allways a compromise between reliability and performance ! Basically, if you put more dense cold air in the system and the ECU can keep up with fuel delivery, you will have a very quick motor. Remember that its not horsepower wich bends conrods its the torque. As some famous jurnalist said years ag: horsepower sells cars, torque wins races !

[craig.scoobsvil]

I have a basic understanding of the science involved in cold air being denser than warm air thus burning better, hence my desire to fit the FMIC. The clutch has been recently replaced due to slipping when the 160bhp remap was done in February this year but I suspect it is a stock clutch that was re fitted. Not sure what it will take power wise but it is quick to lose traction in 2nd/3rd when the turbo starts blowing now, no clutch slip at all. I have no idea what the torque figures are but being a diesel I imagine they are way above the BHP figure as Diesels produce good torque by design. I can't praise this car enough as it is my first Diesel, I've had a MKII Escort RS2000, A Cav SRi, and the Sub and this car impresses me greatly, much to my surprise if I'm honest. I didn't realise these had the dual mass flywheel which in my opinion is a bad idea as I used to service/repair hire vehicles and replaced many flywheels after very low mileage and never liked them as they are prone to failure (Transits mainly). I know nothing about VW's at this point but am keen to learn as much as I can to help me decide the right way to move forward with what I have now. All this advice is very useful but just adds to the confusion until I am educated more on tuning the already very good VW TDi engine. Thank you all so far.

[adamss24]

If you can get the front mounted intercooler from a golf pd150, then by all means, do it. A cat back system or a cat delete will free another few poneys and it wont fail the mot + wont be much noisier than standard, as the turbo does a good job to quieten the engine. Pd injectors from a pd 150 and a new map will see you close to 180-200 Bhp. That should do it for the time being as it will still return 45-50 Mpg ! The turbocharger will hold you back from making more power, easy to sort with a hybrid one ! Why dont you get in touch with devonutopia - a forum member, who's skoda fabia pd130 pushes well over 250 Bhp and is aiming for 300 Bhp...Hes done some impresive mods to his pocket rocket !Hope this helps.

[John@DNA]

You can safely get 180bhp out of these, the problem people see with clutches is with the torque being brought in too low and harshly. You don't need PD150 injectors till you go past 230bhp though before they're maxed out. You can get more than 180 on the standard turbo but it'll smoke :)

[craig.scoobsvil]

I'd say as a base point to start from I now think I have a direction to head off in. As it is already a reported 160 though I'm not prepared to spend £400 on a remap for just 20 BHP so I will look into finding the FMIC, which is the one from the 150 BHP PD Golf I had in mind, then the decat seems to be the easiest thing to do next. That done I'll probably be back to get further advice on what can be done but I want to save the mapping til the last thing I do rather than map, change something then map again then change something else e.t.c. e.t.c. Thanks guys.

[John@DNA]

I'd say as a base point to start from I now think I have a direction to head off in. As it is already a reported 160 though I'm not prepared to spend £400 on a remap for just 20 BHP so I will look into finding the FMIC, which is the one from the 150 BHP PD Golf I had in mind, then the decat seems to be the easiest thing to do next. That done I'll probably be back to get further advice on what can be done but I want to save the mapping til the last thing I do rather than map, change something then map again then change something else e.t.c. e.t.c. Thanks guys.

Why would you need to spend £400 on a remap?! ;)

[craig.scoobsvil]

That's the figure I have been given to map to around 180bhp. I have only had the car since March and at this point don't know where to go for certain things to get them done not only as cheap as possible but by someone who comes reccommended by the likes of yourself and other Forum users. The invoice from the 160 map is for £499.00. I get the impression you can point me in the right direction on this one.

[blue monday]

Strangely enough i got rid of a Scooby and bought a pD130 too! Revo and Panel filter gave me 168.1 BHP on a rolling road, i remaped as i was missing the subaru too, but after 18 Months went back to 2.0 T Petrols!!

[craig.scoobsvil]

For outright power yes if I'm honest I miss the Scooby but I enjoy driving the Bora in a different way as the power delivery is completely different and I can feel the torque in every gear without needing to hit 130mph! I think if I could squeeze 200bhp from this then it should be a decent match for most of the muppets round here if not it will at lease raise a few eyebrows. I want something different from the Sub but without giving too much of the power I'm used to away. The first time I drove a 150pd was a golf hire vehicle where I used to work and when I took it out for a test drive I realised if I did get rid of my Sub I had probably found the replacement in a VW 130/150 TDi. As it is I ended up with the Bora, 160bhp (reported) 6 speed, Air con cruise control heated seats etc. The Scooby was just quick and handled well but thats about it sadly. I have no regrets about the Bora and don't see myself going back to petrol engines if I can get good power from diesels.......................perhaps!

[John@DNA]

That's the figure I have been given to map to around 180bhp. I have only had the car since March and at this point don't know where to go for certain things to get them done not only as cheap as possible but by someone who comes reccommended by the likes of yourself and other Forum users. The invoice from the 160 map is for £499.00. I get the impression you can point me in the right direction on this one.

Drop me an email at j.robins@dnatuning.com ;)

[Sisson]

Get yourself to Allards. VT5 turbo, Propane & Nos, 260bhp

[craig.scoobsvil]

Get yourself to Allards. VT5 turbo, Propane & Nos, 260bhp

doesn't sound reliable that. cheers

[Sisson]

ive had 2 pd130's running 180bhp now

you could go for a allard VT2 turbo, remap, fmic, clutch for a reliable 225bhp 350 lb.ft plenty of pd130's running round like this

or even a hybrid Turbodynamics turbo, which i think is a pd150 with a modified exhaust housing, but not 100% sure.

anything over 180bhp and you'll need a new clutch as it will slip.

You will also need a FMIC, (front mount Intercooler) as intake temps will be sky high. My Ibiza used to hit 90degrees+ in 3rd gear. with the FMIC it doesnt go above 40.

Then you'll want a freer flowing exhaust, then some 312mm TT brakes to help you stop and some uprated suspension/arb's/strutbraces to help you handle.

What sort of money are you willing to spend?

[craig.scoobsvil]

ive had 2 pd130's running 180bhp now

you could go for a allard VT2 turbo, remap, fmic, clutch for a reliable 225bhp 350 lb.ft plenty of pd130's running round like this

or even a hybrid Turbodynamics turbo, which i think is a pd150 with a modified exhaust housing, but not 100% sure.

anything over 180bhp and you'll need a new clutch as it will slip.

You will also need a FMIC, (front mount Intercooler) as intake temps will be sky high. My Ibiza used to hit 90degrees+ in 3rd gear. with the FMIC it doesnt go above 40.

Then you'll want a freer flowing exhaust, then some 312mm TT brakes to help you stop and some uprated suspension/arb's/strutbraces to help you handle.

What sort of money are you willing to spend?

Well I spent 6G on the Sub so anything less is a bonus!!!! With a list like this I can figure out cost and decide from there, I can do all the mechanical work on the car except the mapping which I now have sorted. How much should it cost?

[Sisson]

Tbh im not 100% sure. but i think for the VT2 turbo, mapping, FMIC, Exhaust, Clutch

Your looking at 3 grand

Thats on an exchange basis for your old turbo

[danpike123]

hello im getting a audi a3 2.0 tdi 140 bhp and can i get a performance remap that will get it just passed 200 bhp cheers dan

[Sisson]

Just a remap?

I'd say yes and no.

Ive got a 2.0 TDI Touran with an Upsolute map, have seen the same map on an Altea hit 185bhp on a RR.

You could get a map that spikes at 200hp but tails off like mad after 3k, its whats under the line that matters, you want the smoothest map possible with the biggest area under the map...

[John@DNA]

You might get someone claim to get you that with just a remap but it will be either a fudged rolling road plot or a remap running a bit too close to the edge. You need to change the downpipe really if you want to push it that bit farther as this lets you keep EGT's to a safer level with the increase needed.

[Stephen B]

OK this seems the place to ask :D

budget of £1k, what should I get without destroying the clutch and maintaining the 60mpg [on same journey at 70 mph] ?

car is a 130 TDi with 24k on the clock and totally std engine wise atm, and I've been thinking remap [wide power band], large bore downpipe and milltek discreet resonated system

[John@DNA]

You can destroy a clutch with just the remap if you bring the torque limits in fierce! To bring the power in smoother is easier on the clutch but alot depends on the driver, I could destroy a clutch on a standard car! Power band is easy to make wider also but I can't say how in public, it's not something all tuning software can do either ;)

Downpipe, exhaust and a DNA remap specifying to me what you want and I can tailor it to suit what you want 100%

[danpike123]

cheers for the reply thanks i live in sussex where is it best to get a remap with a rolling road

[John@DNA]

Well you don't really need a rolling road as most rolling road owners use them solely as a marketing tool, most of them don't know how to tune and those that state they custom tune on the rolling road are full of ****, it's long been plainly a marketing tool of the tuning industry. A well developed remap on the road is far better than an hour spent on a rolling road in the hands of the local computer salesman, once you've spent years tuning these things you know how they respond very well, I can direct you to a tuner I supply via pm that I know with a rolling road that can fit a remap tailored to your requirements

[danpike123]

cheers mate thanks for that