Overheating Alhambra

[concretebudgie]

I have a 2001 1.9tdi which has a tendency to overheat. My immediate thoughts are that it could be a faulty thermostat or water pump, but the symptoms are a bit odd (to me anyway).
The warning light and alarm came on whilst I was running the car at about 80mph, having driven approx 15 miles / 25 minutes.
The RAC attended, and found the system, though it had stood for about 45 minutes was pressurised when he loosened off the cap to the expansion vessel. The engine was run on tick over and then revved up, but the temperature remained normal (90 degrees according to the dial). I took a chance and drove it 20 miles home keeping revs and speed down (max 60mph). Occaisionally the temp needle strayed up a bit, but then dropped down.
The rad and some of the hoses remained cool, indicating a lack of water circulating around the system, but the pressure in the system / expansion vessel is puzzling me. Also, the heater / blower remains cool
From asking around and from experience , I feel it could be the Thermostat or water pump.

Anyone any ideas or anything similar?
Thanks

[kenney]

Hi Sounds like you have a head gasket problem.Overheating,when driven hard,no circulation,high pressure in the system and both radiator hoses cold

[concretebudgie]

Thanks for the reply. I presume you mean a blown head gasket. I did think of a head gasket problem, but discounted it as 1) a test was done to see if the coolant had been contaminated by combustion / exhaust gases, and it proved negative (or not positive) and secondly, there was no 'pull' noted on the coolant in the expansion vessel when the engine was revved up. Also, no loss of coolant or steam was noted. Having read this, do you still feel this is so?

[kenney]

Hi What do you mean by pull,as regards gas in the expansion, tank from a TDI it is very seldom you will see that.I think the gasket is in the first stage of blowing .But of course you must try changing the thermostat first that is the usual rutine.

[smokey0123]

If there no circulation I would change the waterpump, if it was the thermostat the heating would still work ok.

[freers]

Hi

New here, just having the same problem as ConcreteBudgie (same car), so wondering how you got on. Problems as follows:

1. Temp gauge goes up after a run 60-70mph for 45 mins, sometimes to warning level
2. Apparent loss of water after most trips (e.g. 2.5 pints after 50 miles@60mph in two trips or half a pint after a local trip)
3. No significant smoke/steam from exhaust
4. No mayo on oil filler cap.
5. No apparent leaks in radiator or hoses
6. System appears to relieve lots of pressure (sound of water draining to bottom of system) when header tank cap is released.
7. Fan seems to kick in as it should.
8. Heater works, but have a feeling it may only work when turned to max

I'm inclined to think it's a head gasket problem but nothing seems to stack up and don't want to take it to a garage and get roped into replacing radiator, water pump, thermostat and hoses before realising what the real problem is. In addition, have just realised the head gasket was replaced in April last year - could this have failed already?

If anyone can shed some light on this (along with some potential costs) it would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Neil

[Marmalizer]

VAG for some reason or another decided to stop using Brass Impellers on the water pumps in their cars and moved to cheap plastic ones.

Now if your car overheats whilst the engine is at 2k+ revs but then soon settles when at tick over it is 90% of the time your water pump.

The plastic impeller becomes brittle and cracks on the spindle, and only shifts water at around idle.

The price for a brass impeller is not too bad only £24 it the 1hour and a half labour thats a stinger.

If you are losing water then you must have a leak somewhere. If you have no mayo and no white smoke then I would suggest that you park it somewhere dry and run the engine at 2.5k revs for about 10 mins and if after all that the floor is dry.
Then i would guess that you might have a leak in your heater matrix and check your carpets for damp, try turning your heater up to full and see if the windows steam up.

[freers]

Thanks very much Marmalizer, I have also asked around several local 'experts' who all seem to agree that the water pump is the problem, so have it booked in tomorrow for replacement water pump and cambelt.

I think the water is coming out of the overflow of the header tank - it sounds like one of the catch 22 situations, the car overheats due to the water pump failure, the water boils and forces it's way out of the overflow and makes the problem worse due to lack of coolant!

[Angarak]

Hello all,

I also have a 2001 tdi that has developed this of late.

Originally it overheated when on motorway journeys (usually when I was going uphill), however of late it can overheat on short urban runs.

When the car initially overheated, I put the heating on HIGH with the fans at MAX and this did help to lower the oil/water temps. However lately the heater system blows cold regardless of heat setting. I had to drive to Leeds a couple weeks back and I noticed that when going uphill on the M62 (towards pennine way) the oil/water temps would rise and the heater would go cold (when set to high temp), but when going downhill or on a flat section the oil/water temp would lower and the heater would start producing heat again!?!

I've noticed the car is losing coolant through the overflow on the header tank.

To date I have:

1> Replaced Thermostat (and tested new thermostat in boiling water to ensure it opened at temp)
2> Replaced the OEM water pump (with plastic impeller), the new pump has the brass impeller (and I've just taken it out to ensure its fine).
3> Checked all hoses for splits - none found
4> Checked radiator for leaks - none found
5> Checked oil for signs of water contamination (ie: headgasket failure) - none found
6> Taken it to SEAT and had it diagnosed - no faults logged, and more annoyingly they couldnt get it to overheat on their rolling road. They also believe the head gasket to be 'bullet proof' on these engines and the garage I took it to (Warrington) has never known one to fail.
7> Checked carpets for dampness to indicate heater matrix leak - carpets where bone dry.


I've heard that it could be a failed header tank cap. If its not sealing then it will boil the coolant at a lower temperature than it should, and it would also 'gas out' into the header tank. I've ordered one from SEAT but wont get it for a couple days.

I have also noticed something behind the header tank that is attached to the top heater hose (the one that runs over the top of the engine behind the oil filler neck). If I waggle the wire to this 'device' once I've just turned the engine off, it makes a whinning noise (as if an electrical fan/pump is working) and it releases pressure out of the coolant system (you can hear gurgling)....any ideas what this 'device' is?

Mystery Device:
:: http://mooch.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/alhambra_mystery_device_1.jpg
:: http://mooch.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/alhambra_mystery_device_2.jpg

One other thing regarding the head gasket, if it does fail wouldnt you notice a reduction in power? (something I have not noticed).

Any other possible ideas on the overheating that hasnt yet been covered in this thread?

Cheers
Simon

[freers]

Hi Angarak

Not sure I can help too much as i'm not a mechanic, but I assume you have checked top and bottom hoses are both getting hot, if not this could mean a problem with circulation, blockage in radiator perhaps?

otherwise I would suggest a pressure test and/or emissions test to check for cracks in cylinder/head gasket.

What about fans - are they both kicking in as they should as this could be a reason for the overheating around town?

Any white smoke from exhaust or mayo in oil filler cap?

Otherwise I have since replaced my Alhambra with a newer galaxy - and will keep all fingers and toes crossed for as long as I own it!!!

Freers

[Marmalizer]

What your mystery device appears to be is an additional water pump

The Part No. is 1J0 965 561 A

Could this have failed and not circulating the water in that section of the pipe causing overheating?

[Angarak]

Thanks Freers :)

After further investigation today I believe I have found the source of the problem, however, to aid any fellow sufferers of this problem reading this thread in the future I can answer your questions as follows:

:: both the top/bottom radiator hoses get hot once upto temp and the thermostat has opened.
:: both radiator fans are working as expected.
:: There appears to be no contamination in the oil (ie: coolant) and have not noticed any smoke.

I believe the source of my leak is the front heater matrix *gulp*. Whilst the carpets are bone dry inside the cabin, I noticed what appears to be an overflow/drain pipe in the bulkhead down towards the passenger footwell.

Here is a picture of said pipe:
http://mooch.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/alhambra_leak_pipe.jpg

I'm assuming (unless someone can correct me) that the matrix must be leaking and the water is being drained through this pipe into the engine bay. It has left coolant stain so Im pretty sure it is the culprit.

Will now look into the cost of a new matrix and how much hassle is involved (presumably quite a bit!).

Cheers :)
Simon

[Angarak]

What your mystery device appears to be is an additional water pump

The Part No. is 1J0 965 561 A

Could this have failed and not circulating the water in that section of the pipe causing overheating?

Thank you for clearing that up Marmalizer. If it wasnt for the fact I discovered a pipe leaking coolant earlier today after my initial post in this thread, then it was my suspicion that there may be a fault with this part...however Im now leaning towards the front matrix.

May I ask how did you get the part number? ....EPC? ...I've seen some EPC software for sale on ebay but not sure how good they are.

Cheers
Simon

[micheal balbrig]

Hello all,

I also have a 2001 tdi that has developed this of late.

Originally it overheated when on motorway journeys (usually when I was going uphill), however of late it can overheat on short urban runs.

When the car initially overheated, I put the heating on HIGH with the fans at MAX and this did help to lower the oil/water temps. However lately the heater system blows cold regardless of heat setting. I had to drive to Leeds a couple weeks back and I noticed that when going uphill on the M62 (towards pennine way) the oil/water temps would rise and the heater would go cold (when set to high temp), but when going downhill or on a flat section the oil/water temp would lower and the heater would start producing heat again!?!

I've noticed the car is losing coolant through the overflow on the header tank.

To date I have:

1> Replaced Thermostat (and tested new thermostat in boiling water to ensure it opened at temp)
2> Replaced the OEM water pump (with plastic impeller), the new pump has the brass impeller (and I've just taken it out to ensure its fine).
3> Checked all hoses for splits - none found
4> Checked radiator for leaks - none found
5> Checked oil for signs of water contamination (ie: headgasket failure) - none found
6> Taken it to SEAT and had it diagnosed - no faults logged, and more annoyingly they couldnt get it to overheat on their rolling road. They also believe the head gasket to be 'bullet proof' on these engines and the garage I took it to (Warrington) has never known one to fail.
7> Checked carpets for dampness to indicate heater matrix leak - carpets where bone dry.


I've heard that it could be a failed header tank cap. If its not sealing then it will boil the coolant at a lower temperature than it should, and it would also 'gas out' into the header tank. I've ordered one from SEAT but wont get it for a couple days.

I have also noticed something behind the header tank that is attached to the top heater hose (the one that runs over the top of the engine behind the oil filler neck). If I waggle the wire to this 'device' once I've just turned the engine off, it makes a whinning noise (as if an electrical fan/pump is working) and it releases pressure out of the coolant system (you can hear gurgling)....any ideas what this 'device' is?

Mystery Device:
:: http://mooch.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/alhambra_mystery_device_1.jpg
:: http://mooch.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/alhambra_mystery_device_2.jpg

One other thing regarding the head gasket, if it does fail wouldnt you notice a reduction in power? (something I have not noticed).

Any other possible ideas on the overheating that hasnt yet been covered in this thread?

Cheers
Simon

Hello Simon This may not be relevant but may be worth a look.
if the small bore pipe from exp tank to radiator blocks up or is
restricted it can lead to overheating
This happened an old Volks diesel Jetta that I had and was
difficult to find but remedy was simple

[Angarak]

Hello Simon This may not be relevant but may be worth a look.
if the small bore pipe from exp tank to radiator blocks up or is
restricted it can lead to overheating
This happened an old Volks diesel Jetta that I had and was
difficult to find but remedy was simple

Thanks Michael,

I will certainly check it out.

Having spent the day stripping the dash out to get to the front heater matrix, I can confirm it isnt the heater matrix and I now know why garages charge so much labour for replacing one. It's a complete pain in the backside to get to it, its as if they built the car around the heater unit lol.

Anyway, I look forward tomorrow to putting it all back together :(

I'll have to resort to taking it to a VW specialist as its their engine, hopefully if I point out the 'drain' pipe leaking coolant in the bulkhead they can work from that and fix it.

Considering SEAT had the car for 2 hours and didnt even find the 'drain' pipe leaking coolant, plus other past experiences with them, I think I'll give them a miss.

Cheers
Simon

[topanhodgson]

Not sure if this is the same problem or not. I have a 2001 Alhambra that used to overheat on long journeys and the heating would go cold. If I dropped to 60mph then the temperature guage would stabalise (having shot up and spilled the coolant when over 60) and I could continue (slowly) on my journey.

I took it to a mechanic friend who sent the head off for pressure testing which found no leaks. This meant it could either be the head gasket (which looked fine apparently) or that the head warped when really hot and so both would need replacing. I ended up having the head and gasket replaced - a real pig of a job on these cars - and 2000 miles and several long journeys later all is back to normal again.

Just to let you know, the total cost was around £1900!!!!

[Angarak]

Thanks,

Im now leaning towards the head gasket being the problem (hopefully it is just that!).

Its booked into be pressure tested next week.

[Angarak]

Update:

Had the engine pressure tested and it looks to be HGF around Cylinder #1, so its going in this week to have a new HG fitted.

[Angarak]

Update:

I had the head gasket replaced.

Oil/Water temps seems fine, the heating system is blowing warm air when it should and the the coolant system doesnt have any excessive pressure.

Cost approx £670 for parts and labour (inc vat) to have the HG done by a local company (not a SEAT dealer).

[laurencem]

[quote=concretebudgie;180890]I have a 2001 1.9tdi which has a tendency to overheat. My immediate thoughts are that it could be a faulty thermostat or water pump, but the symptoms are a bit odd (to me anyway).
The warning light and alarm came on whilst I was running the car at about 80mph, having driven approx 15 miles / 25 minutes.
The RAC attended, and found the system, though it had stood for about 45 minutes was pressurised when he loosened off the cap to the expansion vessel. The engine was run on tick over and then revved up, but the temperature remained normal (90 degrees according to the dial). I took a chance and drove it 20 miles home keeping revs and speed down (max 60mph). Occaisionally the temp needle strayed up a bit, but then dropped down.
The rad and some of the hoses remained cool, indicating a lack of water circulating around the system, but the pressure in the system / expansion vessel is puzzling me. Also, the heater / blower remains cool
From asking around and from experience , I feel it could be the Thermostat or water pump.

Anyone any ideas or anything similar?
Thanks[/quote

I had this very problem and sorted it myself. The water pump is at fault, the impeller becomes detached from shaft. Pump not that expensive an exchange item.
Regards Laurencem.

[twindecks]

i have a 1.9tdi and it was doing the same problam we change every thing from thermerstat to the water pump tested the radiator and got a water cap then pressure tested yep there it was the head gasget to cut a long story the mechanic took the head of and found out that the head had been done before and there were no washers on thee head bolts and they are 5mil thick as the bolt was not tighing up as the thread does not go through that my story hope your is not similar

[russman4]

hello angarak ..


just wondering what the final cure was to your car overheat prob .. mine is doing exactly the same ..

cheers
russ m

[Angarak]

In my case it turned out to be the head gasket had gone...it cost £670 to get it sorted.

[topanhodgson]

Same problem. Mine was the head itself. Gasket was fine. £2000!!!!

[Angarak]

...Gasket was fine. £2000!!!!

Yikes - surely a new engine wouldnt be that much?

[topanhodgson]

Yikes - surely a new engine wouldnt be that much?

A new engine, I would have thought, would cost a lot more. A reconditioned one maybe not. Did I want the car off the road for that amount of time...no! ;-) Thing is you buy the engine and then it could cost the same again to install it. And these cars aren't easy to work in. The engine space is so cramped.

[jiimym]

been having similar problems but less so since removing thermostat, has anyone got a diagram / description of the system, mechanic can't understand

[gb02dcb]

Had similar problems - tried the list.

A local (non dealer) put a CO2 tester (shaped like a battery testing hydrometer) device into the header tank, ran the engine for a couple of minutes, watched the crystals in the tester change colour and diagnosed:
DIAGNOSIS: CO2 in coolant suggesting HEAD GASKET FAILURE.

ACTION: Had it done (changed water pump & toothed belt - not neccesary but good opportunity whilst there).

RESULT: perfect and heater now works, no overheating or loss of fluid.

Cost: East German countryside 600 euros.

[holtie]

Angarak, I know its a while ago but did you ever discover what the pipe in the photo is for ( http://mooch.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/alhambra_leak_pipe.jpg )- mine had water coming out of it the other day and the sound insulation around it was soaked and eaten away - mine loses water but has never overheated (1.9 tdi asz engine) and I have just started to look into it. Thanks

[gb02dcb]

Had similar problems - tried the list.

A local (non dealer) put a CO2 tester (shaped like a battery testing hydrometer) device into the header tank, ran the engine for a couple of minutes, watched the crystals in the tester change colour and diagnosed:
DIAGNOSIS: CO2 in coolant suggesting HEAD GASKET FAILURE.

ACTION: Had Head Gasket done (& changed water pump & toothed belt - not neccesary but good opportunity whilst there).

RESULT: perfect and heater now works, no overheating or loss of fluid.

Cost: 600 euros . from a little old guy in a small town garage in East Germany .


UPDATE : After a winter including -25degrees Celsius (yes that is minus twenty five!) and 9 months and 20k the beast is working fine - apart from needing a new a new glowplug in the auxiliary heater.

[gb02dcb]

GB02DCB Should have mentioned my engine is an AUY 1.9TDI.

[Angarak]

Angarak, I know its a while ago but did you ever discover what the pipe in the photo is for ( http://mooch.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/alhambra_leak_pipe.jpg )- mine had water coming out of it the other day and the sound insulation around it was soaked and eaten away - mine loses water but has never overheated (1.9 tdi asz engine) and I have just started to look into it. Thanks I've never had it confirmed by a SEAT mechanic (or any other for that matter), but I believe it is a drain for the aircon matrix behind the bulkhead. I remember driving the car with the heater/aircon system off and the pipe was not leaking, when I went for a drive with the aircon on their was some water coming from the pipe...hence my assumption about it being a drain to stop the inside of the car getting wet from the condensation of aircon pipework/matrix. FYI, if your losing water and it isnt a split hose, leaking radiator, dodgy header tank cap - it could be the oil cooler leaking internally - though over time this should show some form of oil contamination.

[holtie]

I thought it may be something to do with the air con - it seems to be clean water coming out of there. I found a split hose leading from the back of the engine to the top of the expansion chamber. I saw water on the gear change cables and had a feel around and found it - a bit awkward to get to but managed it - it had split near the end so just cut the pipe off as there was enough. Just waiting to see if I still lose water - fingers crossed!!

[Gaz501]

Hey guys,

i know these posts are pretty old, but i have no where else to turn :( i recently bought a Seat Alhambra 1.9tdi 1998 manual (7v8 7v9) i know the car is pretty old and beat up but, still i like it.
I have the same issue as most on here with my car over heating. same symptoms. i have drained the rad to check for blockages, but thats all good, fans work with aircon on, but dont kick in when temp rises over half way on gauge. i havent got round to the water pump as of yet, but on investigation on the thermostat housing(flange), i pulled off all the pipes and had a look inside, i can see staight through, i thought that the thermostat would be in place, but its not, now im now mechanic, but shouldnt it be there? or is it some where else? this is what i see...

27937

someone please help lol

[gb02dcb]

GB02DCB Should have mentioned my engine is an AUY 1.9TDI.

re gaz51 overheating Alhambra

(mine still going strong 3 years 100k after changing head gasket)

engine type - I will assume it's AUY unless you say otherwise.

"missing" thermostat - possibly done by a "mechanic"! They suggested this as a cheap "fix".
Have you had the car for long and is this a new problem?
My dealer suggested /did ( in sequence):

a) change thermostat (in manifold body)
b) change pump
c) change radiator fan sender thermoswitch ( in pipes)
d) change headgasket
only d worked! see item about gas testing where they put a pellet into the coolant water.

I have a EKTA cd which is really useful for finding parts drawings / numbers - this was about a tenner from e-bay and has saved me hundreds and more than a few nervous breakdowns.
this is the EKTA page 1998 8 19 819-22 thermostat

[glowplug]

You say the fans don't kick in, take a look at the fan controller relays, the fan fuses and the thermal switch. All three control the FAN. Get the fan working first and then worry about the rest.