Kwikfit... huge problem !

[thewiderview]

Hope this isn't too long winded

I left my VW T4 diesel van for an oil change... fine when it went in, when I went to pick it up it wouldn't start & in my opinion it wasn't ever likely too again !
They are trying to dodge out of the situation..... I feel, having taken 2 days for an area manager to return my call. Now they are saying that it was smoking & rattling before they undertook the job but as they had 'promised me to do it' .... proceeded, that wasn't the truth, in fact when I turned up in the first place they couldn't find the filter but said it was showing on their computer as 'being there' ! I told them if there was a problem let me know they after all had my mobile. (if its of any relevence I left it at 10am Sun & went to pick it up at 11 am Mon but apparently the work was carried within the first couple of hours). When I went to pick it up I said to my g/f that it was a bit 'ominous' that it was still on the ramp. I paid for the oil change thats when they tried to start it. My arguement is that must have known that there was a problem with it & yet thet still didn't phone me & that was
why it was still on the ramp because they couldn't move it

If anybody can steer me in the right direction?, would you undertake an oil change on a quote 'smoking, rattling engine' the area manager / foreman told me that it might even improve it ! or any other advice.

Regards
Tony

[davecoz]

I don't really understand your posting, was it smoking before it went in for the oil change?

If it has got problems now only after they have done the work I would suggest contacting your local Citizens advice beaureu, thay will probably suggest that you have the van checked by another garage to find out what is wrong and get get quotes for any repairs. You can then present this to Kwik fit and see what they say.

Hope this is of some help.

Dave

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Hope this isn't too long winded

I left my VW T4 diesel van for an oil change... fine when it went in, when I went to pick it up it wouldn't start & in my opinion it wasn't ever likely too again !

Firstly - rant mode on: why oh f*$king why do people insist on using Crap-Fit? They are well known for screwing up with tyres (their core business) - so they'll have no hope of any competence for the oily bits, the stoppy bits, the going round corners bits, & the bouncing along roads bits. Rant mode off. . . . .

Now I've got that off my chest - you'll need to be very clear on your actions (to protect yourself should you wish to take legal action). You obviously drove your T4 to Kwik-Fit under its' own steam (well diesel power - obviously), and in good working order - so a Kwik-Fit member of staff would have seen/heard you arrive. Had there been anything wrong with your van - the monkeys at Kwik-Fit should have hold you - and should have declined to do the oil change until any other existing problem was either rectified, or was found to have no effect/affect/change of outcome on the work they agreed to do for you. They have therefore accepted a legally binding contract - the first and most obvious part of the contract would be to carry out the oil change, and no other work, with reasonable comeptance, and you paying the agreed fee on satisfactory completion of the said work. The second, and less obvious part of the contract, is that Kwik-Fit take good care of your van whilst it is their posession, and return you van to you at the completion of the works, in exactly the same condition as of the time they started works. Any change in condition whilst in their posession would be entirely their responsibility.


They are trying to dodge out of the situation..... I feel, having taken 2 days for an area manager to return my call.

I think enough has been said before (in this forum, many many other forum, and on consumer progs like BBC Watchdog) about the $hit service and customer support from Kwik-Fit!


Now they are saying that it was smoking & rattling before they undertook the job but as they had 'promised me to do it'

Did they actually tell you so when you drove your van to them???? See my comments above.


.... proceeded, that wasn't the truth, in fact when I turned up in the first place they couldn't find the filter but said it was showing on their computer as 'being there' !

Did they physically examine your van, including actually looking for the oil filter on your van engine? If so - they heard you drive up in it and they didn't notice any problems, and the subsequent visual inspection by them also confirmed no problems. Kwik-Fit then accepted your van was in a satisfactory condition!


I told them if there was a problem let me know they after all had my mobile. (if its of any relevence I left it at 10am Sun & went to pick it up at 11 am Mon but apparently the work was carried within the first couple of hours).

That basically tells me that they - Kwik-Fit - knew that they had seriously f*$ked something up, and were trying to cover-up, or sort out their problem.


When I went to pick it up I said to my g/f that it was a bit 'ominous' that it was still on the ramp.

And were still trying to sort out their f*$k up 24hours later!


I paid for the oil change thats when they tried to start it. My arguement is that must have known that there was a problem with it & yet thet still didn't phone me & that was
why it was still on the ramp because they couldn't move it

They already admitted to you they carried out the oil change 24 hours ago.


If anybody can steer me in the right direction?

If they persist in trying to deny any wrong-doing:
1/ categorically inform them to STOP any further work on your van.
2/ get your van recovered away from Kwik-Fit, on a flat bed, to an independent, ideally VW specialist (trusted reputation independent, or main dealer).
3/ get an official examination of your van, specifically asking for condition of engine as well as van overall, indicating pre-oil change condition, and also confirming reason for smoking and rattling.
4/ send written report to Kwik-Fit HEAD OFFICE (don't bother with the muppets who did the oil change, but do send them a CC), claiming cost of all work required to rectify the damage they caused, the cost of providing the expert report, and the cost of alternative transport, along with any other incidental costs, including the oil change.
5/ get the work rectified by a trusted independent and send them the bill.
6/ issue a Small Claims in the County Court.


would you undertake an oil change on a quote 'smoking, rattling engine'

Absolutely not - as I said above, you need to sort out any existing significant problems before doing any further work.


the area manager / foreman told me that it might even improve it ! or any other advice.

What a load of ********. That is the kind of "advice" you used to get from the absolute worst of the utterly dodgy back-street/under the railway arches, so called garages. They would usually change the thin, black, very old engine oil, and replace it with very thick hypoid gear oil, to quieten down rattly engines, just before they sell them on.

My guess is that Kwik-Fit either started the engine with no oil in it, or seriously overfilled it with oil. Ask Kwik-Fit how they drained the old oil (was it through the sump plug, or by one of those awful vacuum devices down the dip-stick tube). Look at the sump plug for signs of clean fresh oil - if you see any, and the sump plug is tight with a new sealing washer, that is absolute evidence they overfilled the oil and tried to then drain some off. If they used the vacuum device to suck out the old oil, these can get blocked by sludge and prevent the complete emptying of the sump - the Kwik-Fit muppet then thought he had fully drained the sump, re-filled with what was the correct amount, but actually overfilled it!


Regards
Tony

The very best of luck, rgds

[thewiderview]

I had parked the van on their premises but they had to drive it too the ramp... then 2 days later they claim that it was smoking & ratttling when they got it to the ramp! thats when the 'promised' came in!

We were then left in a 'comprimising position' 45 miles from home with our overnight luggage, xmas shopping etc... (we don't have a 2nd car) they suggested WE get it lifted to a garage of our choice/ & have an independant specialist look at it which we thought bearing in mind this week was a bit keen. The van is our only transport so we had to get a taxi to the nearest vw dealer (Robinsons Norwich highly recco' although we were somewhat over a barrel!) arrange to provisionally buy another van.. & they let us have a van while it was being prepared.

I have spoken to head office they were crap & am now in the process of producing your advised letter to the same place.

I'm not looking for them to fund my purchase!, but just to let me have the van back 'as was'.

Happy Xmas

Tony

[auiron]

I did write to Kwik-Fit about 9 years ago when a new tyre they fitted deflated soon after picking it up. I sent a letter and received a telephone call, a Scottish accent, and they sent £60-00 worth of vouchers.

My mother had a problem with Halfords ( became AA and now not operating for servicing ) and oil leaked from the oil filter leaving her stranded on the M20. They arranged for the car to be picked up, replaced with a new engine and supplied a new replacement car for two weeks and included a full tank of petrol. This was all done on a no quibble basis.
This is what you should expect from Kwik-Fit.

[thewiderview]

Further to your help, if we get anywhere with this
What position should I be left in roughly?
The van is on an M plate so I would imagine any major repair would exceed the value & I have now had to replace it anyway

Tony

[auiron]

Further to your help, if we get anywhere with this
What position should I be left in roughly?
The van is on an M plate so I would imagine any major repair would exceed the value & I have now had to replace it anyway

Tony

Send a registered or recorded delivery letter to Kwik-Fit HEAD OFFICE right away explaining what has happened. The staff are told not to admit to anything, much like a motorist who runs into the back of another car, so the balls in your court. Stop talking about it and get the letter off forthwith. Good Luck.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

I had parked the van on their premises but they had to drive it too the ramp...

Righty - you've got the ba$tards. They drove it on to their own ramp. They should have refused to do any work on it, until any "apparent" problems which they claim were there, were sorted out (basically they should have foned you, stating something like "ey up mate, your vans a rattlin' and a smokin' - we ain't gonna do the oil change, because we think your engine is *******"). The fact that they didn't fone you before hand, telling you so, and that they carried out the work - is an implied admission that the van was OK.


then 2 days later they claim that it was smoking & ratttling when they got it to the ramp! thats when the 'promised' came in!

Forget the "promised" bit (unless it was some kind of free of charge oil change or somthing similar). They had agreed to undertake a legally binding contract, you then accepted that they could carry out work to comply with the terms of that legally binding contract (oil and filter change). The law is very, very clear, particularly with the protection of consumers. A contract does not have to be written down, a telephone call, a text message, a fax message, an e-mail, a face to face oral communication, even communication through British Sign Language (for the deaf/hard of hearing), are completely acceptable forms of a "contract". If you asked them to do something, they understood what you asked for, quoted you a price, you then agreed the price and told them to go ahead - that is a legally binding contract. They are in breach of contract, for f*$king up your van.


We were then left in a 'comprimising position' 45 miles from home with our overnight luggage, xmas shopping etc... (we don't have a 2nd car) they suggested WE get it lifted to a garage of our choice/ & have an independant specialist look at it which we thought bearing in mind this week was a bit keen.

These are all things you can claim from $hit-Fit. You can't claim for general "inconvenience", but you can claim for buses, taxis, trains, even planes, if that is what it would reasonably take for you to carry on with your life. Be careful about over-egging the pudding, for example, you won't be able to claim for a private Lear jet, when say an EasyJet service were available, nor could you claim for a streched limo, when a Skoda Octavia or similar private hire taxi will do. You can claim for meals and child care, if their delay or inconvenience meant that you needed these (you need to look at along the lines: if I had my van back when they said it would be finished, then I wouldn't have needed the Burger King, the taxi ride, the emergency child care, the numerous telephone calls, the mid afternoon tea at Starbucks, etc). You also don't have to have receipts for everything you claim - you don't get receipts from payfones, or McDonalds, sometimes even cabbies don't give receipts, but make a note of everything you pay for, even tipping the cabbie, (because he was helpful/knew a short cut/got you there early/told you where the best chippie was etc).


The van is our only transport so we had to get a taxi to the nearest vw dealer (Robinsons Norwich highly recco' although we were somewhat over a barrel!) arrange to provisionally buy another van.. & they let us have a van while it was being prepared.

It doesn't matter weather you only have the one van, or a whole fleet of arctics, curtainsiders, tippers & mini-busses - they still have to compensate you for the (reasonable) loss of use of your van.



I have spoken to head office they were crap & am now in the process of producing your advised letter to the same place.

Get the letter of ASAP - send it Recorded Delivery, First Class (yes, First Class is important) to the Head Office (which should be the same as their Registered Office - if not, then send to both). CC the letter to the Manager at the Branch who did the work, and get a Certificate of Posting (free). Get a printed till receipt from the Post Office for all the postage fees, and add this to your claim.


I'm not looking for them to fund my purchase!, but just to let me have the van back 'as was'.

You're exactly right: you are not after a new "56" plate van - you just want your existing van returned to you in exactly the same condition as when you took it in. If that means they have to fit a recon engine, then so be it. If they can't get a recon engine, then a brand new engine will have to be supplied and fitted at their expense. A word of caution, if an official VW recon engine costs, for example, £1800, and the VW labour to fit it was say £1500, and your van was only worth say £1200, they cannot force you into having a cheapo, no warranty recon from some dodgy back street garage, or some lump that's been sitting in the local scrap yard for the last 18months. You should not, and are legally protected, accept anything less than the standard your van was in before. If you have to have a brand new engine, that is just tough on Kwik-Fit.


Happy Xmas

Tony

Seasons best wishes to you also.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Further to your help, if we get anywhere with this
What position should I be left in roughly?

Like I said in post #8, exactly as it was before you took it in. If, because a brand new engine is the only option, so be it. If they try to repair it, and it is still worse, then it aint good enough, and you are completely within your rights to refuse it.


The van is on an M plate so I would imagine any major repair would exceed the value & I have now had to replace it anyway

It does not matter - this is not some "insurance" job following a Road Traffic Accident, where they try to mitigate losses, based on blame of any 3rd party.

This is very simply a Breach of Contract, for which they must recompense you fully. If they offer you a newer van, and it is suitable for your (same as before) needs, and is free from defects, then go for it. If, however, you are very attached to your exisiting van (for example, your first child was conceived in it/you used it for that epic road trip to southern Italy etc etc), then you are perfectly within your legal rights to have your existing van repaired.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

The staff are told not to admit to anything, much like a motorist who runs into the back of another car, so the balls in your court.

You are sort of right, sort of wrong. Don't get confused between issues arising from an RTA insurance claim, and the psudo Criminal & Civil requirements.

This is simply a Breach of Contract, under Civil Consumer Law. The full onus would be on Kwik-Fit to be able to prove, by way of Experts, that they did not damage the van. If they were able prove the van was $hagged before they did any work, they would not be liable for costs, nor any Breach of Contract. However, if this were the case (that they could prove the van was $hagged before they did any work), two issues still remain outstanding. Firstly, why did they agree to do the work, if the van was in such a bad state of repair. Secondly, Kwik-Fit claim that their oil & filter change would quieten down and stop it smoking, and they havn't done so - it still smokes like a laboratory beagle, and still rattles like a skeleton in a biscuit tin. So they still have to prove the issues.

[thewiderview]

Sorry for the delay to this thread
Many many thanks for all your detailed help, still no contact from them but I've got the letter off & will update as soon as poss.

All the best for 2007

Tony

[amw5]

What a response to your post,,,,,,, Crap fit it is then!
I am a time served motor mechanic and I served my time back in the days when you actually had to serve your time properly and pass exams, not just complete NVQ based training days which to be quite honest aren’t worth the paper they are written on.

Anyway ,,,To be quite honest it sounds very much like they forgot to fill it back up with oil again before starting it, if they had trouble finding the filter!!! (my God) by the time they did find it and replace it they probably forgot they hadn’t put any oil in!
Who locates filters from a computer!! Diagnostic plug yes but filter!!! time to go some-ware else.

At the end of the day if you are quite sure your van wasn’t rattling and smoking when you took it in, and they state it was rattling and smoking before they started work on it, well they are blatantly lying
and trying to cover up there mistake.

I don’t know what your resources are but if I were in your position I would ask to see the qualifications of the guy who undertook the work. Next I would take out the engine and with an independent mechanic carry out a detailed examination, I would also offer crap fit to send a representative to witness this, but I would ask that the rep is not from there branch. I would be tempted to suggest you are about to do this anyway, even your not.

Contact trading standards and see what they have to say.

Hope some of this helps,,, and good luck.
Allan

[auiron]

What a response to your post,,,,,,, Crap fit it is then!
I am a time served motor mechanic and I served my time back in the days when you actually had to serve your time properly and pass exams, not just complete NVQ based training days which to be quite honest aren’t worth the paper they are written on.

Anyway ,,,To be quite honest it sounds very much like they forgot to fill it back up with oil again before starting it, if they had trouble finding the filter!!! (my God) by the time they did find it and replace it they probably forgot they hadn’t put any oil in!
Who locates filters from a computer!! Diagnostic plug yes but filter!!! time to go some-ware else.

At the end of the day if you are quite sure your van wasn’t rattling and smoking when you took it in, and they state it was rattling and smoking before they started work on it, well they are blatantly lying
and trying to cover up there mistake.

I don’t know what your resources are but if I were in your position I would ask to see the qualifications of the guy who undertook the work. Next I would take out the engine and with an independent mechanic carry out a detailed examination, I would also offer crap fit to send a representative to witness this, but I would ask that the rep is not from there branch. I would be tempted to suggest you are about to do this anyway, even your not.

Contact trading standards and see what they have to say.

Hope some of this helps,,, and good luck.
Allan

Kwik-Fit usually put the name of the person who did the work on the bill and who checked it. They also put certificates on the wall showing the courses passed by each fitter.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

What a response to your post,,,,,,, Crap fit it is then!

Ain't that the same as what I said up there in post #3?


I am a time served motor mechanic and I served my time back in the days when you actually had to serve your time properly and pass exams, not just complete NVQ based training days which to be quite honest aren’t worth the paper they are written on.

Actually - you could train a Chimpanzee to do an oil and filter change, afterall, it is basically just following a set procedure. But I know exactly where you are coming from! ;)


Anyway ,,,To be quite honest it sounds very much like they forgot to fill it back up with oil again before starting it,

Again, ain't that the same as what I said up there in post #3?


if they had trouble finding the filter!!! (my God) by the time they did find it and replace it they probably forgot they hadn’t put any oil in!
Who locates filters from a computer!! Diagnostic plug yes but filter!!! time to go some-ware else.

Hang on a mo, they may have been looking for the part no for the filter, and the other issue is that a T4 is not exactly very common now. It's not like your bread'n'butter daily stuff like Astras, Vectra, Golf, Moandeo, Focus, Fiesta, etc - the poor monkey had probably never seen a T4 before. But it still don't excuse them from f*$king it up, and I would also be inclined to go elsewhere, with better product knowledge. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, you know, but it doesn't really help the OP in this issue.


At the end of the day if you are quite sure your van wasn’t rattling and smoking when you took it in, and they state it was rattling and smoking before they started work on it, well they are blatantly lying
and trying to cover up there mistake.

Again, on the same lines as what I said up there in post #3?


I don’t know what your resources are but if I were in your position I would ask to see the qualifications of the guy who undertook the work.

I don't really see how that would be any help - it doesn't really matter weather Kwik-Fit employed a 12 year old Philippino refugee, or the most qualified master technician and chief VW engine designer. The simple issue is that a Kwik-Fit employee was attempting to carry out the terms of a legally binding contract!


Next I would take out the engine and with an independent mechanic carry out a detailed examination,

As per my suggestion!


I would also offer crap fit to send a representative to witness this,

Yeah, that is a good idea, but only if the examining expert agrees. Alternatively, just write to Kwik-Fit, stating the independent examination will be being carried out by XYZ, and they will be able to view the report. A good expert should actually photograph the whole process of dismantling and examination, and submit them along with the written report.


but I would ask that the rep is not from there branch.

Interesting, though I may think that could be a potential flash point, along the lines of secrecy!?!?


I would be tempted to suggest you are about to do this anyway, even your not.

It could be potentially risky, to call their bluff, and they then ask you to reveal!


Contact trading standards and see what they have to say.

Good advice, but my own personal experience with my local Trading Standards - well, a number of adjectives come to mind, and they are the complete opposite to words like: helpful, informative, useful, enforcing, swift, prompt - I think you might get the picture ;)


Hope some of this helps,,, and good luck.
Allan

Yeah, seems like the poor chap needs lots of luck!

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Kwik-Fit usually put the name of the person who did the work on the bill and who checked it. They also put certificates on the wall showing the courses passed by each fitter.

That'll be handy, when you need to work out who gets the lash, and how many ;) :p

[thewiderview]

It goes on !!
On the subject of who did the work, during our original altercation
I was told that although 'X' was down as carrying out the work on the timesheet it was actually carried out by 'Y'. Oh what a tangled web!

[Teutonic_Tamer]

It goes on !!
On the subject of who did the work, during our original altercation
I was told that although 'X' was down as carrying out the work on the timesheet it was actually carried out by 'Y'. Oh what a tangled web!

I don't think that will really matter too much. Like I said up there in post #15 to amw5, your contract was with Anytown branch of Kwik-Fit, you paid your money to Kwik-Fit, and you got a receipt for your payment from Kwik-Fit. (Unless it was some kind of backhander with one of the monkeys directly, which you arn't letting on;) ).

Incedentally, are you going to name and shame which branch of Kwik-Fit who screwed up, and what neck of the woods are you from, as Robinsons Norwich is my <hic> "local". Private Mail me (from the Avatar) if you don't wanna post it here.

Rgds

[auiron]

The following link may help slightly: http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3851

[VW Techniker]

'Kwick-Fit' can't even spell their own flipping name. Im sure the last time I looked in a dictionary it was spelt 'QUICK'...

I Would'nt let the sacks of S*?T oil my door hinge...

[Teutonic_Tamer]

'Kwick-Fit' can't even spell their own flipping name. Im sure the last time I looked in a dictionary it was spelt 'QUICK'...

I Would'nt let the sacks of S*?T oil my door hinge...

Hi VW T - whilst I'm sure many, many others on these and other similar boards fully share and agree with your sentiments regarding the competancy of Kwik-Fit, this particular post has'nt really helped the original poster - we all know about horses and their stable doors don't we ;) - maybe you were just having a senior moment, 'cause I usually find your posts very constructive :beerchug: .

Now if you wanna start sommat bout speeleng - hav a reet go at them over the pond!!! FFS, who puts an "i" in tyre, and what about loosing the "u" from colour, and don't even get me started on their pronunciation of objects of motorised road transport - "veee-hick-ul", what the heck is that all about, have they never heard the Queens' English??? :D ;)

Rgds

[Tanuki]

"
The first settled English colony was in Jamestown, Virginia in 1607 – contemporaries of William Shakespeare (1564-1616), Francis Bacon (1561-1626), Christopher Marlowe (1564-1593) and John Donne (1572-1631). By the 18th century, American was recognized as distinct from British English. The earliest sign is perhaps the absorption of Indian words, almost exclusively from the Algonquian speaking tribes. American also borrowed many words from Africans brought in with the slave trade, and European immigrants, but they tended to be regional: African in the South, French in Louisiana, Spanish in the Southwest, German in Pennsylvania, and Dutch in New York, with Spanish being the most pervasive. Yiddish has contributed differently to both American and British.
Many words and pronunciations died out in England but survive in American. Words adopted new meanings in the new world. Great changes were wrought in 20th century American, with global economic, political, and technological prominence.
The main differences between American and British are vocabulary and pronunciation. There are slighter differences in spelling, pitch and stress. This is borne out in this (not exhaustive) dictionary, where about 60&#37; of the differences are nouns (vocabulary) and 20% are spelling differences. Interestingly, although American is more tolerant of neologisms, written American tends to be stricter in grammar and syntax."




I found the most unintelligible English spoken by Northerners, especially Geordies. Then there are those Northern kids in the Ford ad that need subtitles to be understood. At least I have a better chance of understanding the yanks. :o

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Hi thewiderview

How are you getting on with your probs - any updates yet?

Rgds

[onzarob]

Hi thewiderview

How are you getting on with your probs - any updates yet?

Rgds

Well done teutonic for bringing the subject back, Hijacking posts are frustrating for all, I agree with the kwik-fit suggestions.....use a decent garage there are plenty about;)

thewiderview, It would be great to find out if you've solved this issue. I work in a service industry, not cars, and the first rule is always return the product back to the customer in the same or preferably a better conditon, not a poorer state.

Good Luck

Rob:D