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View Full Version : HELP!! Non starting golf gti 16V



peterhall617
01-04-2008, 05:38 PM
It all started with the renewal of both the alternator belt and the power steering belt.

As it is i followed the haynes manual and disconnected the battery and on doing so the alarm sounded so i put it back on straight away and it stopped and just carried on with the job as per the haynes manual.

Nomajor dramas with that and tried to start the car to check the belts were ok and it would not start.

I have checked for fuel flow which is good, when turning the key the starter cranks and i have removed the master ht lead from the coil and noticed im not getting a spark.

I spoke to a VW dealer who told me to remove the alarm and immobiliser as the immobiliser could stop a spark. Before the work she would start without any problems. everytime.

Also is it possible for the power steering pump to interfere with the timing?

I have started removing the alarm and immobiliser which is a Logic 950 but im stuck with where the wires are to go once disconnected from the back of the fuse box.


I have found ignition 12V constant which goes into H1/1 and a black and red wire from the ignition for h1/4 but every other wire there is a mystery, nothig in the haynes manual and nothing online that i can find about the alarm. (conlog logic 950 have gone bust so nothing from them)


I am in need of major help and anything on this matter would be greatly appreciated. I can add some pictures of the back of the fuse box if it helps.


Thanks

pete:zx11:

Crasher
01-04-2008, 06:02 PM
Do you have 12v at the coil?

peterhall617
01-04-2008, 06:36 PM
i need to remove the alarm and immobiliser before i can get power back to the car because it is 85% out and needing the wiring diagram for the rear of the fuse/relay pannel so i can wire it up without the alarm.

Sorry i know i should have used you guys before doing something so drastic but did not know removal of an alarm and immobiliser could be so difficult.

Any info on the removal of the alarm would be appreciated

Thanks
pete

Crasher
01-04-2008, 09:35 PM
Which colour wires and to which pins have been intercepted? I imagine a red/yellow to the back of the car which is the fuel pump feed from M/2 and a solid black from G1/4 or black/yellow from G1/10 for coil or ECU feed respectively.

peterhall617
01-04-2008, 10:05 PM
Ill get a few photographs and post them for you tomorrow if thats ok.

There are a few and know that ill not need all of them and if i do im in the sh*t because i know there are a fair few wires there needing connecting.

ill take that info and have a look and post the pictures tomorrow as im 5 miles from my beloved. she is locked away with the windows down. lol. stupid me, i started the work with the windows down so they did not auto close with the alarm and cant get them back up because i have no power.

thanks for the help and ill be in touch asap.

pete

peterhall617
01-04-2008, 10:14 PM
i know off the top of my head i have 3 main wires that had been cut and joined with a connection


Solid black - think its for h1/4 from 15 on the ignition connector.
Red/black - think this is for the ignition and from only two wires i can find in the haynes manual goes to h1/1 from 50 on the ignition connector.
Also i think the other is a black and yellow, unsure of where it goes or comes from.thanks
again

peterhall617
03-04-2008, 12:06 AM
I have finally got power back to the car after longing over your wiring diagrams. but still im not getting a spark. the wires below are from the rear of the relay panel and am not sure what they are for. I have most things back working on the car i.e:

lights
fuel pump
internal dash lights
warning lamps
heater
etc

im unsure if these are nothing important or whether they are needed in the circuit for a spark.


http://i27.tinypic.com/fdymtx.jpg

no 1 on the picture, is this right or should there be something in there, i have a red connector from the alarm but not sure what it is for (that is fitting location 30 and 30B)

no 2 both fuses are 30 amp and have about 4.0 gauge red wires into them and dont know where they are from and what they are for.

http://i28.tinypic.com/35hi5if.jpg

this is my fusebox and relay panel. nos 1 2 3 are from the alarm and below will have the wire colours, any help as to these wire locations would be appreciated.

http://i31.tinypic.com/2exu73l.jpg


no1 on this is no 3 on the fuse panel diagram and all of these wires have been removed and are bare.


http://i29.tinypic.com/516b0k.jpg



this the back of the fuse panel diagram. these are from the alarm and are also bare.


http://i28.tinypic.com/68eot1.jpg

these connectors were not connected when the alarm was in but unsure if they should be connected to somethig now.


Hope you guys can help because im getting a little pi55ed off with this now.
How can something happen so drastic because of something so simple.

any help is appreciated.

my next reply will have coil details on.

pete

peterhall617
03-04-2008, 12:13 AM
I have checked the coil and have figures for it:

power off in ohms (not sure if you need this):

brown to black = 0.41
brown to green and red = 0
green and red to black = 6.06
power on in ohms:

brown to black = 0.41
brown to green and red = 0
green and red to black = 5.46
power off in Volts:

brown to black = 0V
brown to green and red = 0V
green and red to black = 0V
power on in Volts:

brown to black = 11.80V
brown to green and red = 0V
green and red to black = 0V
I hope this means something to someone because im not sure in the slightest.

I need help. lol any help however small is much appreciated.

Thanks again
pete:1zhelp:

Crasher
03-04-2008, 01:36 PM
That is a lot to take in! Those extra relays are for the dealer fitted alarm and are the immobiliser cuts but I can't remember how they intercepted the engine feeds, it is a while since I took one of those out. You have power to the coil and so there is another intercept from one of those relays, I think to a line plug as if I remember correctly, that alarm was virtually plug in. You need to use the diagram, identify the power line to the ECU and look for an intercept. It is unbelievably hard helping someone with a wiring problem remotely. If it was in front on me, I could probably see it immediately. A fault code read may help pin point the problem.

peterhall617
03-04-2008, 05:08 PM
Appreciate it thanks. Ill look into the wiring a little more then ill send it to the dealers.

I hate wires, im useless with them but if ive got power to the coil then should that mean most things on the car will be fine, i.e hall sender, coil and engine speed sender. Also does this have a crank sensor?

thanks again crasher.

pete

Crasher
03-04-2008, 05:41 PM
Yes it does have a crank sensor. Do you own a lap top PC?

peterhall617
03-04-2008, 09:05 PM
yes why?

Crasher
04-04-2008, 09:59 AM
Get yourself a VAG-COM lead that can be registered with Ross Tech to allow the use of version 409. One word of warning though, when I first stated using VAG-COM when version 311 and then 409 were current, I used to have a lot of trouble getting it to communicate with the ABF engine ECU, especially when the engine was running-mind you, that isn't a problem for you at the moment :D

peterhall617
04-04-2008, 11:06 AM
Shouldnt the wiring be ok if im receiving voltage to the coil or can the ecu stop a spark another way. Im going back to the car today to spend some valued time after a long week at work so fingers crossed.

How does the ignition work on this engine? does the hall senser tell the coil when to fire relaying a spark to the dizzy? also which relay controls the ignition, ill try swapping one for one?


Sorry for so many questions but electrics i struggle with.

thanks
pete

peterhall617
04-04-2008, 11:13 AM
The leads on ebay are with the vag com software 409.1 they are blue leads.

Are these ok.

where would you recommend getting one from at a reasonable price if these are no good.

thanks

Crasher
04-04-2008, 01:04 PM
Use http://www.ilexa.co.uk/acatalog/vagcom.html (http://www.ilexa.co.uk/acatalog/vagcom.html) for a proper cable or forum user Eshrules. I have no experience of the shareware version but you need to make sure your cable can be registered for the full 409 version otherwise it is virtually useless. This costs $99 I think.

peterhall617
04-04-2008, 04:25 PM
WOW, by chance she is working. Followed the loom you mentioned to find nothing joining so chanced a coil change with the scrap 1.6 at work and she fired up first go, the immobiliser must have killed it somehow.

You guys are cool thanks.


PROBLEM THOUGH.

30 secs after it started i noticed a leak from the radiator, how unlucky am i.
so for a radiator change is it the same as the golf gti 8v or is specific to the 16v.


Any info on this would be great thanks.


pete:D

Crasher
04-04-2008, 04:31 PM
Most of the 4 cylinder Golf 3 rads are the same except for the AAZ TD and 90PS 1.8, the part number is 1H0 121 253 D. Cars with A/C have a different rad to non A/C. To change it, you have to remove the front bumper.

peterhall617
04-04-2008, 05:16 PM
i have air con so a an 8v car with air con would be ok?


pete

Crasher
04-04-2008, 06:05 PM
You need 1H0 121 253 BA which is a lot rarer, I think you will end up buying one new.

peterhall617
04-04-2008, 08:50 PM
:mad: not a ahppy chappy.

thanks for the info though mate.

cheers
pete

peterhall617
05-04-2008, 11:26 PM
Brand new radiator 80, it was too much hassle looking for a second hand one, stripping it out and getting to it as they are very limited when looking for spares up here.

Im in the RAF at lossiemouth so nothing remotely close.


Appreciate everything everyone has done esspecially crasher.

Thanks all:beerchug: