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brd
23-11-2006, 02:44 PM
Hi all,
I am having a problem with generally intermittant juddering when driving (at any revs) and very rough tickover ... it seems mainly when hot. There is a smell at the same time which I guess is from the catalytic convertor. I changed plugs, plug leads and distributor cap as they were in a bad way, but the problem is still there. I have ordered a new lambda sensor and will fit that in the next few days when it comes.

Any ideas on what else could be the issue? It has been getting progressively worse and now the car is becoming pretty much undriveable.

Any help is greatly appreciated... thanks!!
Brian.

PS: I've seen posts there where people were having trouble with dash lights fuse blowing, reversing/rear fog lights not working, boot light, etc.... the problem is the boot cable on the left hand side at the hinge that bends too much and breaks internally. Change or fix it and sorted. Its a know problem.

Marc97
23-11-2006, 10:46 PM
Wait until your lambda sensor arrives. It will more than likely fix your problem (fingers crossed).
If it isn't that, it may be the air flow meter or MAF sensor as it is also known (isn't it?).
Great advice too on your first post, welcome aboard :)

brd
28-11-2006, 09:33 AM
Looks like the engine running problem is finally sorted!

Changed the Lambda sensor last night... straightforward enough. Car runs pretty sweet now. Just need time to tell as the problem was a bit intermittant, but I reckon we're lookin good.

So... all in all, I could see improvements in the problem after changing the plug leads, distributor cap, air filter, plugs, and finally the lambda sensor. I think it was the lambda guy that was the main cause but the symptoms were incrementally getting a little better by changing each of the other parts.

So, if ever you get bucking while driving, whether under load, neutral load or slowing down, rough tickover, really smelly exhaust fumes... and a real pain to drive, particularly in traffic.... and sometimes cutting out when throttle dropping back down to tick-over.... then this is your most likely cause. I also had very carbonated plugs from running too rich and fuel consumption was not great.

A standard service covers some of the parts, but one should consider changing the lambda sensor and plug leads at about 100,000 miles as part of a service. An easy enough job, just a little fiddely routing the sensor lead, but with the car well jacked up, it's ok. The lambda sensor cost 45GBP+shipping (about 70euro) - sourced through the web). For a 1995 ABK engine it is the 3-wire one.

Hope this helps other people out there.. and thanks for the advice.

Marc97
28-11-2006, 11:14 AM
Well done mate.

Timja
28-11-2006, 09:22 PM
What is a lambda sensor?

Mine is not idling very well, but waiting for a new air pipe from Audi (Been waiting 7 weeks now!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: ) that goes to the idling control valve as mine has a hole in it!

Audi being useless - Audi UK customer services also as poor as dealer. When i phoned them having got fed up with dealer and having to wait so long, their response was 'to be honest with you sir, your car is more than 10 years old, and we are only legally obliged to keep spare parts for 10 years so may not help you'

Nice.:zx11:

brd
29-11-2006, 07:08 PM
The lambda (or oxygen) sensor measures oxygen level in the eshaust gases. Check this link out for more info:
http://www.autohausaz.com/audi-auto-parts/audi-repairs.html

And I hear you loud and clear about service... got shafted 350 euro for Audi garage to replace plug leads and distributor cap and they said problem sorted.... which it was not. They said the cap was broken (they broke it!) and ignored being told that the smell from the cat was an issue which would have helped source the lambda sensor as the problem. When I started to "fight" back, I got the cliche garage talk pushing any responsibility elsewhere. I've been working with engines long enough to understand the complete twaddle ... but was away and didn't have much option. Unreal.

brd
11-12-2006, 04:17 PM
(Update in Audi 80 Avant - Intermittant misfire ? thread - same engine)

Damn problem not sorted... so checking the fuel tank breather idea - as tank always seems under pressure when I open the fuel cap - just not sure of always positive or if sometimes negative... by using a fuel cap that doesn't seal (cheap one)... 110kms so far and no prob ... but as its intermittant, it might be early days.... will keep you posted.

kbowern
17-12-2006, 11:29 AM
Could it be the "hall effect" sender which is part of the distributor. Mine failed, but when it did the car wouldn't start. I believe there is a way of testing it, but not sure how.

marki
05-02-2007, 05:57 PM
Hi I had the same problem I think. Slight misfire. No fault codes.Changed the plugs and leads. I needed to change the cambelt.Mine has 140,000 on 2.6 V6. The night before I disconnected the battery to reset the ECU.( i think it takes 10 hrs to reset) This is a common method used by the Japs. The ECU can 'drift' as the engine wears and parts are changed. ....It then relearnt itself. Now, in the morning before I took it to the garage I did notice smoother running ! but didn't drive for too long. After the Cambelt change it was still running smooth ! so whether it was a slack cambelt or the ECU reset the car is running much better ! It was very annoying before.....intermittent juddering / coughing at all revs

Also changing the Coil pack ( 260 Dollars from US for V6 ) was the remaining option but at present I am happy with the running considering the car's mileage.

Just a thought.

Mark.

brd
05-02-2007, 06:42 PM
Ah... interesting.
I got a secondhand Mass Air Flow meter and just stuck that in... so am driving it now to see if its ok. So... I'll keep you posted if it works as yes, it is damn annoying!
Interestingly the guy in the garage asked me the same thing for the cam belt, ie when it was changed. But I don't understand how that could give intermittant problems though.

Anyway... fingers crossed that its fixed! If not, then next stage is a new Engine Coolant Temperature sender.... but thats alot less painful than a MAF (200 euro secondhand).
B.

brd
20-02-2007, 09:07 AM
So... an update... no update!
Damn.... I changed the MAF, but no luck... still the intermittant stuttering.
Was driving in this morning in town and it started again... then a few minutes later it stopped and ran fine the rest of the way to work. It really feels like an obstruction or something in the fuel system causing starvation or something. Any ideas?
I have ordered an ECT and will try that.
Has been in with Audi four times now, but still the same, nothing on diagnostics and no solution. Being intermittant doesn't help, but they did experience the problem themselves, so they know its a real problem.
Any ideas much appreciated!!
B.

kbowern
22-02-2007, 01:05 PM
mine still has problem, but it's a lot better than it was, probably occurs once every too weeks now, which is good for me. I'll probably just live with it
a my car is an old. L reg.

brd
23-02-2007, 10:55 AM
I find that with the colder weather it doesn't do it as often. I'm not looking forward to when it gets warm again and if it starts acting up alot more then. The ECT is on its way... so I'll keep you posted if that does anything. After that I don't know.. leaky injectors or something like that?

chaos
24-02-2007, 10:20 PM
I'm having the misfiring problem with a 1995 Audi a6 also running an abk engine i have discovered that restarting the engine cures it for a time no fault codes found however it has reduced since i replaced my back box and lambda sensor I'll report back when i finally find the cause however at this rate MAF sensor ht leads plugs rotor arm and cap fuel filter shed loads of different injection cleaners I'm feeling the pinch at the moment :zx11:

kbowern
25-02-2007, 01:17 PM
What is the "ignition amplifier unit" and where is it located. As you can see I am not a expert on these things. Would it exist on an L reg Audi 80.

Wings
25-02-2007, 03:17 PM
Well, I had this thing happen to my Audi 80 Avant 1994 2.0 Litre.
Rather my wife, as she was driving it when it happened... :o

She was driving all nice and easy, then a sudden (and loud) metal/metal sound, and the engine lost power. She continued to the nearest area where safe parking could be found (1/4 mile) and stopped.
The engine sounded as it had severe timing-pings...
I suspected the timing-belt had jumped one or more teeths, so I immediately bought a new belt and flywheel.
I changed it myself (didn't check to see if it actually had jumped position...drats!) and after re-aligning the engine I tried to start it. Well, it started, however same noise in the engine.
The other day I bought a compression-gauge and hoocked it up after checking for sufficient spark on all four leads.
The thing is that it wasn't running good on cyl 1 and 2, but perfect on 3 and 4.
The compression-gauge was well invested money (I'm sorry to say).
It showed 11 - 11,5 bar on 3 and 4, and 1,5 bar on 1 and 2.

Now I'm gonna replace the valves for 1 and 2...and depending on the kit maybe for 3 and 4 as well...along with the head-gasket and what-not.
*****!!! :zx11:

By the way, the engine has run 200925 miles!!! and uses virtually no oil and only 0,8 litre gas per 10 kilometers. :biglaugh:

brd
26-02-2007, 11:52 AM
Thanks Andy, I'd like to check into that too ... if the new ECT doesn't help. Will keep you posted.
@Chaos: I have changed pretty much all the same components as you there, and still no joy.... yet!

chaos
08-03-2007, 02:39 AM
could be on to something here running on a hunch I'm looking at the idle control valve as when the misfire occures the engine tends not to idle too nicely I'm currently running forte gas treatment through in a sort of vain hope from what i've read about the idle control valve is that its some electronics adjustment will keep you posted

brd
08-03-2007, 09:36 AM
@ chaos: ok... thanks. Any news helps.
I changed the ECT... didn't do diddley squat... still the same problem. And with the weather getting warmer, its getting worse ... such a pain.

@ Andy B8: Any luck/time/etc with a ref or pic or etc for the "ignition amplifier unit"? Any idea how to check it?

Wings
09-03-2007, 08:31 PM
Hey there Brb...
Did you ever check the rubber-sealing at the base of the carb?
Maybe it is getting false air through micro-cracks in the sealing.
Try to run on idle, grab a can of starting-gas, and gently spray some directly on the seal...small amounts only...and work your way around the whole seal.
If false air-intake is the problem, the engine will change rpm as you deploy the gas. Maybe...?

Wings
26-03-2007, 02:31 PM
One more possibility; I talked to a VW-mechanic and he told me about a plasticplate located in the rear of the carb, where you have a sensor hooked up. This plate (apparently) is helping the sensor read the position of the venturi-valve inside the carb, and if this plate is moist or dirty, the computer will be unable to read the venturi correctly. So, unscrew 4 torx-screws, pull out the plate, wipe dry and clean with a cloth, re-insert and voila!
I have not tried this yet, but give me a couple of weeks and I'll give it a go...
By the way, my valves was undamaged, only the headgasket had burnt a 5 mm vide gap between burnchamber one and two.
Not it is replaced, and all is fine...for now. :beerchug:

COT51E
27-03-2007, 06:44 PM
1st post but glad to find more info on the abk (pain in the backside problem) of intermittent juddering etc.

i have replaced

plugs
fuel filter
ht leads
dizzy cap & arm
water temp sender
sender switch
lambda probe
thermostat (was knacked)

will try some of your tips but please keep this topic open untill someone has sorted the thing. wanting to sell the car and sods law the test drive will be a disaster as its got a mind of its own.

pete!

COT51E
16-04-2007, 08:05 PM
anyone got to the bottom of this prob yet!

chaos
16-04-2007, 11:46 PM
Think I've Found the root cause to be the distributor i have a test would be interested in other peoples results here i sprayed wd-40 into the distributer by removing the cap and static cover the problem went for almost an entire day of driving soon as i have the pennies i plan to get a new distributer about £38 +vat at euro car parts

kbowern
17-04-2007, 08:40 PM
about 2 years ago I had a new distributor, as car would not go at all. Actually had a new distributor to get a new "hall effect" unit which is part of the distributor, this fixed the car at the time, but the "miss fire" is currently back. At present it's doing it most of the time.

I am wondering if its the warm weather, as a previous post mentioned problems with warm weather. Something to do with the MAF.

JSM
28-04-2007, 11:53 AM
Just wondered if you ever got to the bottom of the misfiring problem. I have been having similar problems and have tried changing various parts but with no luck. Don't know what to try next.

stevie160
03-05-2007, 12:25 PM
I have read on an Amercan webite that a common problem is loss of power and backfiring caused by a clogged screen in the fuel pump for 1990-1992 audi 80's. Not sure if this is the same for uk cars.

I've got a similar problem with my newly purchased 1992 ABK. Does anybody know where the fuel pump is located as I can't seem to find it underneath or in the engine bay?

brd
03-05-2007, 01:02 PM
Hi, I think its either in the boot - remove the floor mat, and you should see it just behind the spare wheel well when looking in, mounted directly into the tank itself... or its underneath near the rear right hand side wheel (depending on whether saloon or coupe/cabrio and year).

I might just check that myself too in fact! ... as I STILL haven't fixed the damn problem. I have another ECU on the way and will keep you posted on whether that sorts the problem.

Brian.

stevie160
03-05-2007, 01:26 PM
Thanks. Mine must be in the boot. I'll let you know how I get on!

COT51E
03-05-2007, 02:37 PM
Has anyone replaced the maff/air flow box.

the one attached to the air box with the plug.

when mine did it on the driveway (running lumpy) i pulled the plug and it kept running (lumpy) then re attached plug and ran ok, i pulled the plug again and it nealy stalled befor re attaching.

i'm assuming this may be the culprate!!!!!

hunzan
06-05-2007, 08:42 AM
hi, I am new to this forum, and like all the others i am having the same problems with my Audi 80. I Have tried just about everything that has been mentioned before except for the ignition switch, ours is worn and it can turn on and off just by going over a few bumps. I am thinking the heavy key rings have contributed to this over a period of time wearing out the barrel creating a flat spot in the barrel. this can bring all the symptoms; central locking, wipers not working, gears not changing , overdrive not up shifting, will run beautifully in cold weather 200 plus kms in one trip, after Stopping for fuel and a cuppa tea the ruff runnng starts again.after turning the switch off it sometimes restarts. have by passed the ignition switch (hotwired) it runs better. also removed the gear lever lock cable as this was causing the ignition to shut off. will keep you posted. any comments welcome

guyg
06-05-2007, 11:57 AM
Thanks. Mine must be in the boot. I'll let you know how I get on!

The fuel pump should be near the fuel tank underneath the car...

Cheers

Guy

brd
16-05-2007, 01:56 PM
Hi folks...

Well... after starting this thread a while ago now, this problem is really starting to wear me down.... still no solution.

I changed the MAF (Mass Air Flow meter) with a secondhand one that should be fine (was still 200 euro!).... no joy. I bought an ECU on ebay for an ABK thinking sure what the hell, I have to find a solution anyway. Then I find out (after "swearing like a trooper" - another thread on where to find the ECU here) that I can't change it easily on a cabrio as the ignition key is chipped for the immobiliser and I would have to get an ECU for this type of system and have it programmed for the key etc etc.
(so I have an ECU for an ABK engine for sale!)

So... I really don't know where to go with this. It's been in an Audi garage 4 times and while they have driven the car and actually felt the damn juddering themselves, they can't find the problem. Also, the weather is getting warmer and the car is practically undriveable now as it happens most of the time.... although maybe I'll bring it back to the garage as it should be easier now to trace - I would be thinking.

What bugs me is that the car is in very good condition mechanically, and lots of lovely options (a few scrapes here and there, but thats life) ... so I would like to keep it.... but it it simply doesn't run right, it ain't no damn use.

Maybe I'll change the coils... but would they not either just work or not work?

Either way, I'll keep you posted... as I have definitely seen the value of these forums when information is so hard to come by.
B.

stevie160
16-05-2007, 04:06 PM
Hi BRD,

It could well be the coil pack. I had a mini many years ago that would heavily misfire/judder after it had warmed up. Turned out the coil was breaking down after it reached a certain temp. It was of course the last thing that I tried after considerable expense changing parts that were ok!

My Audi '92 ABK had a new coil at 95K miles, cost around £80 new.

Regards,
Steve

midskev
16-05-2007, 08:01 PM
hi just a thorght but iv got the same prob on a tdi 80 spent a packet tried audi they havent a clue if its bolted on iv swapt or replaced it yesterdayt ui was driving along n my speedo stopped working and the juddering stopped too !!!!!!!!!!!! i banged the dash and the speedo worked n the juddering returned

worth a try im taking thee dash out at the weekend looking for a broken wire and the speedo pickup on thee gearbox if i can find it good luck

stridey
21-05-2007, 04:03 PM
Hi all,

I've got an m-reg audi 80se, sounds like its got a very similar problem to what most of you are experiencing......... although my fog light switch keeps flashing red when engine is tryin to stall, & on a couple of occasions has actually cut out ( then wont start or even attempt to fire for at least 10 minutes) got told it was possibly the boot loom wiring (which it wasn't)
HELP!!!! cos its really startin to do my suede in. any ideas would be appreciated

brd
21-05-2007, 07:59 PM
If you can get a garage to run a diagnostics check on it, that could be the easiest place to start to find out what's wrong. If it was the lambda sensor for example, that would show up. See if you can geta quote for what needs to be changed, and then see if you can change it yourself. Some parts are easy enough to change and you can get parts online for good prices.
B.

stridey
29-05-2007, 03:23 PM
cheers brd, havent done that yet but it seems to be an electrical fault to me (maybe a bad earth or something):zx11:

stridey
06-06-2007, 11:44 AM
finally sorted guys....... she's running like a little bird:biglaugh: . Turned out to be the immobiliser control system.

Mr Blond
06-06-2007, 04:16 PM
I have a Audi 80 avant 1.9 tdi estate (1995)
It has this judder that you lot have been talking about and a garage has pin pointed to being either the Map sensor or the Injector Pump. does anyone know where the map sensor is located and where could I buy a cheap injector pump? My mate who has the car is gonna run a few more tests on it 2morrow. It has taken nearly £1000 to get this far, but at least I have a good handling car now. We have changed the gearbox and all the bushes on the front.

brd
07-06-2007, 10:17 AM
Hi Stridey..

Can you give more details there about the immobiliser system? Mine is in the garage at the moment ... still trying to find it and could really do with any pointers.
Thanks! B.

hunzan
09-06-2007, 09:25 AM
what part of engine immoboliser did you fix and what did you do to it, did you totally replace it? and where the hell is it, my wife is driving me crazy she wants it working yesterday!

Scathel
16-06-2007, 11:41 AM
I just joined the forum to further understand the very annoying ABK engine issue. Hence a very shameless bump :D

I have a 1996 2.0E Avant with around 111k on the clock.

My car usually plays up when the engine is cold - after it's heated up it's normally fine. The last time it happened, I pulled over and sat with the revs at 3k. It coughed and spluttered and dropped to a very lumpy 1 -1.5k, and then jumper back up to 3k. This happened a few times, and then I drove off - not to happen that evening again, nor the the next morning.

Last year, I drove from Edinburgh to Glasgow, up the side of Loch Lomond to Fort William, over to Inverness and back to Edinburgh in one very wet evening without the car skipping a beat. And other times it happens every time I drive the darn thing.

I usually drive my van, and keep the car for outdoor pursuits, so I don't do high miles in it.
I would like to keep the car so much as I love the styling, and have played with the idea of dropping a 2.9 lump into it. But I'd be as well just buying a Corrado if this issue fails to get resolved......

SteveInDaBury
21-06-2007, 03:09 PM
I've had the issue for several months, seems to have got worse too.
Recently the car totally died while I was driving along, tried replacing distributor but didn't seem to fix it, did the coil and HT leads too, still didn't run (no spark or single spark). Then charged up the battery (it was still cranking not dead at this point just no spark) and after a charge she started back up. (guess voltage got too low to run computer) Reset the timing and initially seemed smoother.

Now the juddering is back again. DOH.

The ignition system in the ABK is the Bosch Digifant. Try googling for "digifant", there are some useful guides out there. I also discovered the ABK engine is not covered by the Audi 80 manual, but if you get the Audi 100 and A6 combined manual (mine has green cover) the ABK maintainance information is in there.

If you want to read the fault codes from your car get a VAG-COM lead from eBay and a 2x2 adaptor for £20ish. There are two connector a black and grey each with 2 pins in the fuse box in the tray under the wipers. On mine the connectors are in the corner of the fusebox nearest the wing. You'll see them if you lift the lid as you would to change fuses.

I read my fault codes with shareware version of vag-com and got the following
engine temp sensor
lambda sensor
throttle potentiometer

The engine temp sensor we disconnected while doing the timing.
the lambda sensor I replaced and tested running the engine with it disconnected.
The throttle potentiometer I'm not so sure about.

Does anyone know what the resistance should be closed to fully open?
Mine I think was about 2-6K (from memory so probably wrong) There is a 3 pin connector on the potentiometer. anyone willing to measure theirs to compare?

Also I read about performing a 'basic setting' on the ECU. Could somebody explain what that is?

Scathel
24-06-2007, 01:22 PM
This lumpy running is now happening hot and cold.
It's now happening every time the car is driven. Last week, it happened 40 miles into a 50 mile drive.
That same evening, it happened 2 minutes when I decided to drive into my very busy main street. I had no choice but to pull over and cause a massive traffic jam on my side of the road:aargh4:

Last night, it happened 50 yards from my house. So, after waiting at the side of the road for 10 minutes (yes 10 minutes) for the engine to calm down, I popped into the garage and booked it in to get the timing checked. It's going in on Tuesday, so if it improves I'll report back.
I had the belt done just after I bought the car, so perhaps things have moved a fraction since then......?

The annoying thing is that I have somebody wanting to buy the car, but there is no way that I'm going to sell a car on that's running like a it's on 2 cylinders :zx11:

SteveInDaBury
22-08-2007, 09:44 PM
I think my car might be cured!! :biglaugh: touch wood.

It's something so simple, it took about 30mins total to do.
I've only been for a fairly small run so far - tomorrow I'll be doing my commute so I'll know almost for sure then - will let you all know. (confidence grows with time, don't want to get too carried away yet)

Under the steering wheel is a facia panel which can be removed it's about 4 8mm bolts, (this facia covers the entire area under the steering wheel between the center console and the edge of the dash.)

Remove the fascia panel and there is an area in which relays may be present. (Relays are small usually black or grey cube shaped.)

On my audi 80 2.0E 93 ABK I could spot two relays, one really long one and a smaller squarer one tucked slightly higher up. I think the long one had a 3 digit number like 203 written on it and the smaller on has 30 written on it.

I removed both, I couldn't get the long one apart easily and didn't want to force anything, but the smaller one came apart fairly easy once removed from the car. Inside the relay casing there is a small pcb. (circuit board). On this board in the top corner I spotted a dry joint!!

I got out the soldering iron and resoldered the joint. the other joints looked ok so I pretty much left them as they were and clipped the case back onto the relay.

Having refitted the relays I've been for a test drive and I hope it's not placebo effect of my excitement of maybe curing the car after being frustrated with it for so long, but it 'seemed' to run much better than before and no hesitation/ juddering over the few miles I did.

I think anyone who has problems with their ABK audi should check this relay. It can easily be checked in about 15 minutes.

Before I did this I have spent money on 2 manuals, a diagnostic lead (which did not show any faults) distributor, fuel filter, ht leads, coil and coil pack!

I think the theory is that the dry joint causes a drop in voltage which causes problems with the computer (ECU) Interesting though my diagnostic lead showed no faults.

I found a site with some images of relays with dry joints. Should give you a clue as to what to look for.
http://www.marklamond.co.uk/tech-honda/pgm-fi/main-relay/main-relay.htm

SteveInDaBury
24-08-2007, 01:06 AM
It is definately fixed!! who would have though 1 dry joint would have caused so much grief.!! now the engine is running much cooler and the bonnet no longer gets hot enough to fry eggs and evaporate the rain!! lol :beerchug:

If someone else tries this and gets success please post here about it - I'm interested to know if anyone else's digifant ABK Audi 80 runs like a dog because of a single dry jont on the ECU relay!!!

YIPPIE!!!

The Audi 80 is a great car to own again, I was ready to ditch it before....

Millerman
24-08-2007, 06:13 AM
Fantastic fella, i'm well pleased for you, its been like reading a long book going all the way through this thread, at least i know the solution if my ABK goes silly.:beerchug:

SteveInDaBury
25-08-2007, 12:07 AM
Hi Millerman, I can't believe something that was so easy to fix has been causing me grief for maybe last 6 months.!!

Regarding the PM question about the manual, the Audi A6/100 Haynes manual covers the ABK engine which was fitted to VW golf (I read early GTI - unconfirmed), Audi 80 and Audi 100/A6.

To cover Audi 80 and ABK engine you need two manuals, one for the car and one for the engine.

I bought my Audi 80 manual (red cover) on eBay. The Audi 100/A6 manual was bought in my local halfords.

After all that, the actual solution was not found in the manual. I stumbled upon another forum via google where somebody had a similar issue.

Good luck all, please report your success - I'd like to know if I've helped somebody cure their headache...

Steve

Millerman
25-08-2007, 07:18 AM
Cheers Steve, it would be good to know the function of that particular relay, ie; what does it protect?

SteveInDaBury
27-08-2007, 10:42 PM
Cheers Steve, it would be good to know the function of that particular relay, ie; what does it protect?
I'm not certain of all the things because often a relay may have more than one switch inside, however the relay does provide the 12v feed for the ECU. That's the circuit that had a dry joint.

Scathel
06-09-2007, 01:23 PM
Here's what seems to have cured my Audi - still running fine some 1,000 miles in 3 weeks later.

Firstly, replaced the thermostat - this needed doing anyway - and the MAF with a second hand unit. Still juddering.

Mot time was upon me anyway, and it failed on weeping fuel lines and emissions. So.......

I had a large can of Reddex, which I fired in a full tank of petrol. It was well over the recommended amount, but in for a penny, in for a pound.......
Whilst that tank was being consumed - or leaked through the lines as the case may be! - I bought a can of Forte to fire in the next tank fo fuel., which was duly tipped into the tank. All juddering/misfires/hesitating vanished after firing in the Reddex (and driving the car at high revs for a lot of the time), and the car ran even better after the Forte gas treatment was mixed in.
I installed a universal Lamda sensor for £15 just to cover myself with the emissions, and with the fuel lines repaired, the MOT was passed.

I'm going to sell the car anyway as I fancy a T5 estate of a Coraddo VR6 next, but I'm glad that the car is running as it should - as will the next owner be!

Thanks to everybody in this thread for letting me know that I wasn't the only one with this issue, and isn't it suprising the differing remedies to the same issue?

Cheers folks :beerchug:

tibbenham
08-09-2007, 03:58 PM
hi. my 1994(L) audi 80 2L ABK was intermitently juddering with unstabble tickover, the co was high as it was running rich, i replaced nearly every sensor and was about to replace the ECU when i saw your thread and looked at the relays to find dry-joints. i resoldered the joints and the car is running like a dream.

thank you!!! :biglaugh:

JSM
17-09-2007, 08:46 PM
Hi

I have an Audi A6 2.0L ABK engine 1995 and have had problems with intermittent juddering/misfiring for quite a while. Am over the moon now thanks to SteveInDaBury I have finally fixed the problem:D.

Just over a week ago I removed the ECU supply relay (has 30 painted in white on mine, 165 906 381 on the side, is black approx 1inch square), opened it up and after great scrutiny spotted one dry joint. Without the help of Steve's pictures I would never have seen it (proper magnifying glass job!) Re-soldered it and with fingers crossed have been using it regularly over the last week. Haven't had a single misfire. Even took it away over the weekend (which I have rarely done because of the problems) and it still continues to run like a dream!

Only wish I had taken some pictures to post for others, but in the excitement of the moment I couldn't wait to get it back together and tried out. Sorry!

Cheers Steve :beerchug:

SteveInDaBury
18-09-2007, 01:34 PM
Glad to hear your success stories!! :biglaugh: :beerchug: (tibbenham, JSM)

It made my postings worthwhile.

I told my friend who worked at an Audi garage about the fix and he said
" a rare find " lol

QUOTE: "Only wish I had taken some pictures to post for others, but in the excitement of the moment I couldn't wait to get it back together and tried out. Sorry!"

Yeah me too! I thought that too, nothing like a picture to show the issue.
I hope the links and description were enough for most people.

Millerman
18-09-2007, 07:13 PM
Fantastic result fella's:beerchug:

jdonline
19-09-2007, 03:46 PM
It's always great to see problems solved using forums. I can't remember life before the internet. Nowadays we can just jump online whenever and figure something out relatively quickly compared to back in the day. Cheers guys:beerchug:.

JD
Autopart Locator (http://www.qaparts.com)
Mobile, AL

Millerman
19-09-2007, 06:52 PM
Nowadays we can just jump online whenever and figure something out relatively quickly compared to back in the day. Cheers guys:beerchug:.

JD
Autopart Locator (http://www.qaparts.com)
Mobile, AL

Aint that a fact fella;)

dysan
23-09-2007, 12:22 AM
All,

I think (early days, well hours actually) I might also be fixed. Found the relay in question and definate dry joins, resoldered and took for a run, no probs.

A big thanks to SteveInDaBury as this problem has been driving me up the wall for months now. Replaced
Coil Pack
Lambda
Dizzy Rotor and Cap
HT Leads
Plugs
temp sensor (all)

1 trip to Audi for an ecu diag

And all because of a dry joint.

How did you find it, I've got to know. I could of stripped the entire car and still not found that.

Cheers

Lee

SteveInDaBury
26-11-2007, 01:06 AM
All,

I think (early days, well hours actually) I might also be fixed. Found the relay in question and definate dry joins, resoldered and took for a run, no probs.

A big thanks to SteveInDaBury as this problem has been driving me up the wall for months now. Replaced
Coil Pack
Lambda
Dizzy Rotor and Cap
HT Leads
Plugs
temp sensor (all)

1 trip to Audi for an ecu diag

And all because of a dry joint.

How did you find it, I've got to know. I could of stripped the entire car and still not found that.

Cheers

Lee

Hi Lee,

How did I figure this out?

I spent a lot of time driving the beast with the issue getting frustrated about it. I also spent time on forums searching for answers (don't we all). Somebody I spoke to suggested it could be the relay (I recieved many suggestions most of which didn't help) although it took me quite a while to figure out where the correct relay was located. I had replaced the distributor to no avail, and most parts in the ignition system are now rather shiny! I also now own a diagnostics lead to read my fault codes! (although no faults showed up)

I would never have guessed a relay could be to blame for all the problems. I has suspected either a fuelling or sensor issue or just an knackered engine and after replacing many things and studying the Bosch Digifant ignition system, wiring diagrams etc I was getting very frustrated.

I could not believe my luck when soldering a dry joint in a relay cured the symptoms. As soon as mine was cured I could not wait to share the solution - I just wished I'd realised the cause 6 months earlier (20mins to fix)
:biglaugh:

80sport
19-12-2007, 08:47 PM
Guess that's what I'll have to try now - just got an audi 80 that will have to last me several months (my trusted mechanic can't change the camchain on my saab till Feb :-( ) and the juddering was getting on my nerves. Got a fault code reader and 2x2 adapter and no fault codes at all. Just changed the dizzy cap, rotor arm and ignition leads (the car has had spark plugs a few K miles ago).

80sport
23-12-2007, 11:59 AM
:-( Just took the relays out and opened them both (the smaller 30 and larger 363). No dry joints at all :zx11: Now I'm running out of ideas!

Jillbaby
22-01-2008, 04:43 PM
Hi everyone, am new today in an effort to find out why my late Mreg Audi 80 2,0E is juddering - so good (in a funny way) to find out it's not just my garage thinking I'm a dippy female! Was over the moon reading Steve's solution....til I read the last post saying that didn't work. Oh well, at least I can check if a dry joint is my prob. Not that I can do it, but I know a man who can! haven't had a bill yet for the last 2 garage visits but they have done diag tests with no result, replaced idle control valve & rotor arm, checked electrics etc etc etc ad mauseam. I just want my lovely car to get back it's poke! I'll keep you posted if it finally solves the problem. Cheers guys ;)

Jillbaby
22-01-2008, 05:10 PM
By the way, it seems a lot of you have had the car die on you - I haven't had this (yet lol) but the prob is almost constant when around 3000 revs. Unfortunate since that's cruising revs. Drove back from Gatwick the other night in a howling rainstorm with it happening all the time - nasty! Doesn't seem to matter if it's wet or dry out. Anyway, I'll let you know if resoldering the joints works. If so, I'd like to buy SteveInDaBury a :beerchug:!

And apols for all the typos in my previous post!!

80sport
22-01-2008, 09:02 PM
Hi,
Welcome to the forum, hope you'll get your audi sorted soon! Despite being an old scrapper the audi handles OK and is a surprisingly decent car! It even returns around 30mpg (2.0E sport SE = ABK 8V engine, manual transmission).

Still no news here, couldn't be bothered with the one I'm driving, it still occasionally surges on tickover (actually the revvs drop and then go up to prevent stalling). Guess it may be an air leak somewhere, I'll need to spray some brake cleaner around the throttle body and see if the revvs go up a bit...
Unless someone has a different idea???

SteveInDaBury
31-01-2008, 05:03 PM
By the way, it seems a lot of you have had the car die on you - I haven't had this (yet lol) but the prob is almost constant when around 3000 revs. Unfortunate since that's cruising revs. Drove back from Gatwick the other night in a howling rainstorm with it happening all the time - nasty! Doesn't seem to matter if it's wet or dry out. Anyway, I'll let you know if resoldering the joints works. If so, I'd like to buy SteveInDaBury a :beerchug:!

And apols for all the typos in my previous post!!

Good luck with the soldering, note that dry joints are not always obvious so if in doubt it doesn't hurt to resolder the joints anyway.

I really wish I'd taken a before and after pic.

:beerchug: drinks always welcome

scotty33
31-01-2008, 07:07 PM
If it's any help? Pics of what it should look like in this thread:

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1787&page=2

Jillbaby
29-02-2008, 04:37 PM
Well sound the trumpets and give that man a knighthood!! After about 7 months, 3 trips to the garage and much swearing - I think it's fixed!! Had a mate look at those joints and indeed some were dry. About 10 minutes later, after a quick resoldering of all the joints guess what: the car ran like new and has done for about a week now with no sign of the old trouble returning. My baby's finally got its poke back! I can't believe that something so simple to fix (and even I could have done it, if I had a soldering iron) is not on the checklist with this kind of fault. It certainly should be now. SteveInDaBury, there's a beer waiting for you here in Hampshire - can't thank you enough mate! :o). Listen everyone - if you've got this juddering problem, check those joints first and save yourself a lot of hassle and money at the garage. Mind you, I haven't yet had the bill for the last two trips before Christmas, maybe that's cos they knew they hadn't fixed it!

AvantMaster
01-04-2008, 03:23 PM
Hi folks,

Another member of the 'juddering club' here !! Have just read with interest all your posts and am relieved to discover I am not alone !! I have a 1995 A6 Avant 2.0l ABK. Lovely car but for the juddering !

Will spare you the details of what I have tried ( and spent ) so far as you have all previously covered it.

Excitedly removed the relay panel under steering wheel only to find four relays in place precisely as depicted in the Haynes manual ( Body Electrical System 12.3 Page 12 Illustration 3.9b ). These are numbered left to right 213, 204, 229, 208 and labelled as follows

213 = Relief Relay ?? No idea what it's for !! Audi Nr 443 951253J
204 = Horn Relay
229 = Intermittent Wiper Relay
208 = Diesel / Jetronic ( I think pump ? )

Also looked in engine compartment relay box and drivers side door sill area relays.

Cannot find the ECU relay or any relay with 30 on it.

Also the relief relay 213 seems to be better sealed than the others so cannot open it !!

Would dearly appreciate any ideas !!

Huge Thanks in advance to anyone who replies !!

AM

AvantMaster
01-04-2008, 04:00 PM
PS I noticed that some of you guys have sourced secondhand MAF boxes. Would appreciate if anyone could direct me toward a source as I fear that could still be a contributing factor.

Next step after (if) I can find the darn ECU relay !!:aargh4:

murphyv310
02-04-2008, 03:51 PM
Hi Guys.
Is this the same setup as in the 80 1.6 1994 with the ADA engine?
Trevor

AvantMaster
02-04-2008, 06:48 PM
PSS For anyone interested I disassembled the 208 ( Jetronic/Pump ) relay.

There is no pcb inside but rather everything hardwired to the contacts. looked spotless and brand new.

I.e. no luck so far, juddereing away ........................:(

AvantMaster
14-04-2008, 09:36 PM
Alright, I'm a slow learner but I found the infamous Relay 30, changed it for a new one and YES !!!! The car is as smooth as silk !!

Thank You All for posting this invaluable information !!

Safe Motoring !! :biglaugh:

AvantMaster
14-04-2008, 09:40 PM
Apologies, forgot to mention to all the A6 Avant owners that the Relay 30 can be found in the side compartment of the passenger footwell.

Remove the kick plate cover of the door sill, loosen the 2 screws there, locate small screw cover cap fitted to the side footwell cover and remove the screw underneath, the side footwell cover can now be 'unclicked' from its location and removed, Relay 30 should be right in front of you !!!!

Hope this lowly post will someday prevent someone from pulling their hair out or losing a lot of misspent funds !!!

Have Fun,

AM !

Millerman
20-04-2008, 08:07 AM
Alright, I'm a slow learner but I found the infamous Relay 30, changed it for a new one and YES !!!! The car is as smooth as silk !!

Thank You All for posting this invaluable information !!

Any idea of part No and price please, looks like my wifes 80 could be going the same way now.:(

scotty33
20-04-2008, 01:04 PM
165 906 381 they are approx £11 so I'm told?

Millerman
21-04-2008, 05:44 AM
Thankyou kind Sir:beerchug:

Wings
11-05-2008, 07:49 PM
Hiya all...and greetings!

I've lately actually been DREAMING that this relay no. 30 may be the cause of all grief, however I can't seem to find it.
Can anyone point me in the right location please?

I own a 1994 80 Avant (Estate) 2,0 ABK-engine, now clocking in on amazing 340.000 km - and still not burning any oil.


Wings

scotty33
12-05-2008, 11:40 PM
Words courtesy of Steve in Da Bury

I think my car might be cured!! touch wood.

It's something so simple, it took about 30mins total to do.
I've only been for a fairly small run so far - tomorrow I'll be doing my commute so I'll know almost for sure then - will let you all know. (confidence grows with time, don't want to get too carried away yet)

Under the steering wheel is a facia panel which can be removed it's about 4 8mm bolts, (this facia covers the entire area under the steering wheel between the center console and the edge of the dash.)

Remove the fascia panel and there is an area in which relays may be present. (Relays are small usually black or grey cube shaped.)

On my audi 80 2.0E 93 ABK I could spot two relays, one really long one and a smaller squarer one tucked slightly higher up. I think the long one had a 3 digit number like 203 written on it and the smaller on has 30 written on it.

I removed both, I couldn't get the long one apart easily and didn't want to force anything, but the smaller one came apart fairly easy once removed from the car. Inside the relay casing there is a small pcb. (circuit board). On this board in the top corner I spotted a dry joint!!

I got out the soldering iron and resoldered the joint. the other joints looked ok so I pretty much left them as they were and clipped the case back onto the relay.

Having refitted the relays I've been for a test drive and I hope it's not placebo effect of my excitement of maybe curing the car after being frustrated with it for so long, but it 'seemed' to run much better than before and no hesitation/ juddering over the few miles I did.

I think anyone who has problems with their ABK audi should check this relay. It can easily be checked in about 15 minutes.

Before I did this I have spent money on 2 manuals, a diagnostic lead (which did not show any faults) distributor, fuel filter, ht leads, coil and coil pack!

I think the theory is that the dry joint causes a drop in voltage which causes problems with the computer (ECU) Interesting though my diagnostic lead showed no faults.

I found a site with some images of relays with dry joints. Should give you a clue as to what to look for.
http://www.marklamond.co.uk/tech-hon...main-relay.htm

this is the one you are looking for:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg104/scotty33_bucket/SSM10693.jpg
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg104/scotty33_bucket/SSM10694.jpg

jockio
14-05-2008, 12:50 PM
I don't suppose anyone knows if this relay is fitted on the 1995 A6 2.8l V6 Quattro engine code AAH. The symptons seem to be exactly like mine and having replaced the crank sensor, cam sensor, knock sensor, ignition amplifier and still juddering/misfiring/stalling and leaving the garage scratching their heads I will give it a go! Oh....and if it is fitted you wouldn't happen to know where it is?

Cheers
Jock T.

PS The idle control valve and all the vacuum tubes have been replaced, the MAF has been removed and cleaned as has the throttle body as far as possible.

Wings
14-05-2008, 11:10 PM
Thanks Scotty (and Steve), however this is not the case in mine, and I have checked with the shop, and behold...mine does not have a "30"-relay.
But all hope is not lost...there's supposed to be a "443 951 253L"-relay governing the fuelpump, and this one may cause the same sympthomes, so as soon as I get home, I'll check. This one is located inside the main fusebox, left side (LHD) under the hood.

muz666
02-06-2008, 07:51 PM
My audi 80 2.0e had flat spots and a bit of a lag, found the "30" relay, resoldered it, now runs much better, the whole running is smoother, feels more powerful and seems that the engine runs a bit cooler, sits around 90, when it used to be around 100!

Top tip ans only took 1/2 hr to do!

erinch
05-06-2008, 12:52 PM
Replace Relay 30 on 1995 Audi Avant 2.0L E, fingers crossed so far.

erinch
06-06-2008, 05:48 PM
So far soooo good, smooth and silky no judders

Wings
06-06-2008, 06:27 PM
Thanks Scotty (and Steve), however this is not the case in mine, and I have checked with the shop, and behold...mine does not have a "30"-relay.
But all hope is not lost...there's supposed to be a "443 951 253L"-relay governing the fuelpump, and this one may cause the same sympthomes, so as soon as I get home, I'll check. This one is located inside the main fusebox, left side (LHD) under the hood.


Nope...the relay in Q was a standard relay, aka no electronics to solder. :zx11:
I'm still in the dark about what is causing my judder...maybe I'm nearing solitude in this thread?

niall4313
09-06-2008, 10:16 PM
Hi i have an audi coupe 1995 2.0, abk engine .the problem is that it will start at the first turn of the key and run perfectly but after about 10 minutes or so it starts to shudder and splutter eventually getting worse until it cuts out. So far i have replaced the distributor, leads, coil, vaccuum hoses, ecu power relay no 30, all to no avail. i ran a diagnostic on it today and got the following codes:

00513 engine speed sensor g28

00522 engine coolant temp sensor g62 27-00 implausible signal.

the car is in mint condition and this problem is doing my head in, can anyone shed some light on what the codes mean, ive already replaced the temp sensor so im lost here!

thanks in advance

Chris J
13-06-2008, 10:01 PM
Have been owner of Avant estate M reg since July last year

Have consistently had a similar problem of juddering and misfiring- but it only happens after travelling on long distances at relatively higher speeds

eg motorway at constant speed of around 65 to 75mph- after going for between say 1.25 hours to 1.50 hours, engine looses power and starts to judder- and eg on a major trunk road with plenty of dual carriage way, at slightly lower speeds, usually takes slightly longer before the same problem occurs

If I then go into next service station or similar, switch off engine and start up again after about 45 mins, then problem doesnt occur again until about just over 1 hour later

Have so far replaced

coil
fuel filter
cam belt [plus water pump at same time to save potential future costs]
fuel pump
distributor cap
rotor arm

Any advice on whether I should try replacing the infamous relay 30 would be appreciated.

Also what about replacing the ignition leads and distributor seeing that Ive already spent a small fortune without success

erinch
14-06-2008, 10:42 AM
Hi,

I have only had my 1995 2.0 Avant for two weeks. Just after I purchased it i noticed the judder during the 1 hour drive home. I was surprised as the car was only serviced 1000 miles ago.

I looked on the forums regarding this judder and came across "relay 30".

Sure enough I checked mine, and there were two dry joints. I bought a new one from VW for £11 and fitted it in the car park.

Now the car has been on several runs down to the kent coast with no judder.

Hope this helps.

Wings
14-06-2008, 01:17 PM
I looked on the forums regarding this judder and came across "relay 30". Sure enough I checked mine, and there were two dry joints. I bought a new one from VW for £11 and fitted it in the car park.
Hope this helps.


Hiya dude...good on ya...but can you please tell me whereabout in the car you found this relay? :1zhelp:

erinch
14-06-2008, 10:15 PM
The relay is located under the steering wheel. There are four screws holding a panel/shelf. Remove the screws and take out the panel/shelf. Look in the hole and there are a number of relays, on my car relay 30 was near the back and upside down.

Chris J
15-06-2008, 11:41 AM
Thanks very much Enrich -your advice is much appreciated

I will order a replacement Relay 30 and have a go at fitting it this coming week

audi80nz
28-06-2008, 12:23 AM
Hi we have a 1990 audi 80 20e that has a juddering that feels like a badly balanced wheel but it's not. Only occurs under load and not when coasting. Really bad around 7o-80 km/h.
Would like to try the relay 30 repair but can't find it under the steering wheel.
This one came to n.z. via japan. Maybe it's different.
Has fuel injection. Any ideas greatly appreciated.

audi80nz
28-06-2008, 12:26 AM
p.s. how do I identify abk engine ?

scotty33
28-06-2008, 12:33 AM
The ABK has electronic injectors, ie a fuel rail and wiring plugs. I think they came out in 1991 with the B4 body so your 1990 would be a 3A with CIS/mechanical injection? The 3A does have an ECU but it may not have the same relay?

audi80nz
28-06-2008, 12:38 AM
Yes you are correct. It has the CIS system. Thank you. Can any one help identify the relay that controls the ecu for this motor ?

sdk778
02-07-2008, 01:26 PM
Ok, done the usual, changed plugs, rotor arm, air filter, still juddering, so off i went and picked up a new relay 30, guess what? No different!!!!
So back to square one, just for info the replacement relay was brand new purchased from a local VW dealer.
Any ideas folks?

Thanks in advance.:beerchug:

audi80nz
07-07-2008, 08:49 PM
Hi. Problem sorted. Turned out to be both inboard c.v's worn out. Replaced with good secondhand complete driveshafts as we couldn't wait for new parts from Germany. Drives like a limo now.

dear161
07-07-2008, 11:34 PM
Hey this is my first post as I thought I would check out the juddering that my 1994 cabrio is suffering from. This is the second time in 3 years my car has suffered from it it was taken to my local Audi specialist (not a franchised dealer) sorted out the problem straight away the problem with the juddering and what feels like misfiring is............. the Engine Speed Sensor once this was changed I had no problems at all.

Hope this was of some help

Steve

mark53
15-07-2008, 09:33 PM
first post on this thread,i to am juddering along,mechanic read codes he said throttle valve actuator ( code 17976 ) limp mode ,intermittent any ideas,
car mis-fires when idle,judders thro-all speeds but seems worse around 40mph and very light throttle also judderin when releasing acc pedal at speed
no leaks (smoke machine detection )leads good ,maf good,coils not sure (2 coils feed all four pots)

scotty33
15-07-2008, 10:38 PM
Ok, done the usual, changed plugs, rotor arm, air filter, still juddering, so off i went and picked up a new relay 30, guess what? No different!!!!
So back to square one, just for info the replacement relay was brand new purchased from a local VW dealer.
Any ideas folks?

Thanks in advance.:beerchug:
I would suggest you disconnect the vehicle speed sensor (it's located next to the inboard cv joint, not sure which side sorry!) the speedo won't work, but you will have eliminated something either way...

dear161
17-07-2008, 09:41 PM
Well finally got around to getting the speed sensor changed today thankfully before forking out £130 to Audi, double checked the computer reading and said it was the revolution sensoe well that was a new one to me so lifted the dizy cap and the rotor arm for some reason and the rotor arm fell apart. Turns out it was double arcing and causing a false reading. One new Rotor arm and car running like a dream.

lizard556
27-09-2008, 03:19 PM
Hi my 1994 audi 80 2.e auto has flat spots and seems to be using an excessive amount of fuel. The lambda and emissions all read ok. Could relay 30 be the source of all the grief. 30 miles to £10 of petrol is too much to bear. Help please

Paul:1zhelp:

brd
27-09-2008, 05:00 PM
Hi,
After about 10 months of headaches with Audi (both the garage and the car), I eventually found that the intermittant running which seemed to be more related to when the temperatures were hot outside and could happen at any speed was due to a 12 euro relay alright.
If you suspect this could be the source of your problem, it is one of the cheapest parts to replace, so I'd try that alright.

Good luck!
B.

Chris J
27-09-2008, 09:30 PM
Hi Paul,

I had juddering and/or engine misfire for more than 12 months until I replaced the Relay 30 with a genuine Audi part. Since then I've had absolutely no problem at all- it was unbelievably cheap to fix- so much so that I bought a spare to carry around just for peace of mind- effectively costs no more than a couple of gallons of petrol

sdk778
29-09-2008, 01:35 PM
Hey Paul, change the relay pal, it's £12 tops, if that doesn't work then get you timing checked, mine was doing the same and it transpired that my cam to crank timing was a tooth out on the cam belt, purrs now, or did, sold it yesterday!!!:approve:

SteveInDaBury
07-10-2008, 12:32 PM
I recently had very bad running of my audi 2.0E ABK, it felt very underpowered and I honestly thought it's number was up. It was after a recent service, plugs and oil changed.

I rechecked the relay (see earlier in this thread) and my previously soldered joint was still shiny and looked good but I resoldered anyway. No difference.

I got my dad to take a look at the car, he noticed the HT leads have a metal shield where there attach to the spark plugs. He suggested to remove the shields, apparently these can cause problems (on motorbikes too - he used to be a motorcycle mechanic) depending on humidity they can help the spark to arc before reaching the plug! I guess looking in the engine bay at night when it's dark enough to see the spark jump might help. On idle with the bonnet open and observing, every so often there was a click and the engine would buck ever so slightly.

Unbelievably, removing these shields solved the problem. I could not believe it because the HT leads were quite new (less than 2 years). Another approach might be to get some good copper cored HT leads as replacements.

Thought I'd post as 'something else to try' for those still with issues...

muz666
22-10-2008, 03:44 PM
not sure if it helps anyone, but i have had on going running issues with my 80, mainly holding back, hesitation and flat spots, had to change the fuel pump yesterday and the car runs smooth as now, so it might be worth considering.....

johnhh
30-10-2008, 04:35 AM
Hi there, I’m Johnhh from New Zealand and fairly new to this Audi problem.

I have a 1994 Audi 80 2.0E ABK and after reading this ‘fix’, have decided to have a look and see if this is the problem with mine.
I have removed the parcel shelf under the steering column and can see the bank of relays. I have located relay 30 but can’t get it out.

I can squeeze my hand up under the dash and grab hold of relay 30 but I can’t pull it out. When I tug on it, it feels like the left side wants to swing round to the right, as if I’m trying to dislodge the relay from its’ mounting rather than unplug it from its connector.
I can’t see if there are any clips holding it in and I’m a little scared to force it in case I end up in a bigger mess than I started with.

Can anyone tell me the best way to get it out without damaging anything?

Thanks heaps in advance.
Johnhh

Dobbo_84
12-11-2008, 04:55 PM
Hi everyone, I have read through this thread and found things very interesting.
Firstly I am having the same problems with my 1993 2.0 16V coupe its and ACE engine so may have difference causes but wouldn't have thought they were too different.

It doesnt idle well enough for an MOT which is really annoying as I have just spent lots of money replacing bits and bobs all over it. Ive replaced fuel pump and filter, cap and distributor and gaskets, replaced Air mass sensor with a working second hand one, checked compression and had the timing done with new cam belt. I have also Checked for leaks and all wiring the connections with no luck.

The car has been off the road for over 4 months now and I just dont know where to go from here. I looked for this "30" relay under the dash but couldn't find one with it on. checked the pcd in one that I thought was it but it seemed okay althought Im not sure if I'd spot a dry joint anyway.

Could there be anything else wrong with the fueling or air or anything else?

Please if anyone can suggest something that I may have missed

Jillbaby
13-01-2009, 07:18 PM
Hi Dobbo and all. I haven't posted since last Feb when my juddering 1995 Audi 80E was cured by resoldering the joints on the fuel relay. Don't know much about these things but assume every car has a fuel relay somewhere regardless of what number it has on it. Am delighted to say I have had no return of the problem since. Dobbo take heart, even I as a mere girl could see what made a dry joint - if you look at the joints they should be nice and shiny silver solder blobs. If they look crusty or powdery, that's a dry joint. My post was pages ago so brief recap: 10 minutes with a soldering iron to restore nice shiny joints completely solved the problem. That's not to say I haven't had any other problems since and have spent a vast amount on my car this past year :o( To answer whoever it was that posted here about big fuel consumption, I had this prob together with poor starting and although I haven't had it fixed properly yet as it was over Christmas, the garage disconnected the second fuel injector (I think - I could be wrong but gather it's a secondary something or other - it's got a little blue or green end anyway LOL) and it is fine now, starts like a dream and back ot normal petrol usage. Keep trying, my garage assures me they are great cars!!

niall4313
13-01-2009, 08:04 PM
Ive tried all of these suggestions plus a good few from other forums and still no luck almost a year later!!:zx11::zx11:

Jillbaby
04-03-2009, 08:35 PM
Quick update from my last post - still no recurrence of the juddering problem so it looks as if resoldering the joints was the right thing to do. However, I have had some starting problems recently (taking a while to cough into life when turning over) which eventually led to the car refusing to start at all after a couple of very short trips. AA got it going to get me home but it's now in the garage and they are going to try a new temp sensor as it appears too much fuel was being injected and flooding the engine. It starts fine from cold and when the engine is warmed up but if I stop before the temp gauge needle moves up it doesn't want to start again. If this doesn't work they are looking at putting in a new fuel metering something or other (come on, I am only a girl after all :o). It has certainly been running very rich again lately, although not as bad as it was before fixing the relay, so maybe this will solve this as well. Will let you know what happens

Millerman
05-03-2009, 06:34 AM
Fingers crossed for ya Jill.:approve:

Wings
07-03-2009, 01:02 PM
Hiya Jillbaby.
My Audi 80 -'94 does not have a relay no. 30 therefore I have been struggling with this jitter-thing...however, I have found the solution and it might help you as well.
On the waterhose leading from the engine to the radiator (on top of the engine) you will find two sensors, one white (3-pol) and one blue (2-pol).
The white is the "feeder" to your temp-instrument on the dash, and the blue is the "feeder" to the brain. The blue will tell the brain at what temperature your engine is at, thereby feeding info to the brain and the brain is distr. gas accordingly.
My blue sensor has a resistance of 2,8mohm cold, but very quickly it drops to less than 1,5mohm. In speed I'm talkin 'bout app. 3 minutes. After this the engine thinks it's warm and shutting of ISC (idle speed controller).
Also this will result in running too lean whereas it should have run rich, causing the engine to heat up to max often, and the rad-fan will kick in too often.

Hope this helps.

niall4313
15-03-2009, 05:06 PM
Hi ive posted here already without much response I was hoping someone might be able to help me with this problem I have an audi coupe 1995 2.0, abk engine .the problem is that it will start at the first turn of the key and run perfectly but after about 10 minutes or so it starts to shudder and splutter eventually getting worse until it cuts out. So far i have replaced the distributor, leads, coil, vaccuum hoses, ecu, ecu power relay no 30, all to no avail. i ran a diagnostic on it today and got the following codes:

00513 engine speed sensor g28

00522 engine coolant temp sensor g62 27-00 implausible signal.

the car is in mint condition and this problem is doing my head in, can anyone shed some light on what the codes mean, ive already replaced the temp sensor so im lost here!

thanks in advance
http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/applied/misc/progress.gif

scotty33
17-03-2009, 12:18 AM
Hi,

Sounds like a nightmare!
I think the G62 temp sender is the one for the ECU, this is the blue one on the plastic water pipe on the side of the head. If you changed this one already, you may have a wiring fault, or extremely bad luck and it's gone bad again?
I think the speed sensor code may be a red herring, sometimes this code comes up if cars are scanned when not running. If it was bad I don't think the car would start, though the symptoms do match a component breaking down as it warms up, equally, it could be a bad temp sender failing to shut off the cold enrichment even though the engine is warmed up?
Try scanning it again when running?

niall4313
17-03-2009, 12:05 PM
Hey thanks scotty, Well I have changed the temp sensor and I kinda was thinking it may be faulty so first chance I get Ill order one.. well two actuallly cos it gets worse, I bought a 100 recently for a runaround and its developed a similar problem, same engine code problem isnt as bad as the car is driveable just idling badly. I have a thread here about it in the 100 section and was advised to try the temp sensor also.
Just one other thing could it be the throttle potentiometer on the throttle body? Ive take the whole thing off and cleaned it out changed the isv as well, made little difference though. Its been well over a year now and if it takes me 10 more years im not going to give in!:aargh4:

Wings
17-03-2009, 12:24 PM
My first guess would also be the blue sensor (as described in my last reply) but could it be false air from a crack in the TBI-manifold? (the rubber-thingy underneath the TBI)

orion248
31-03-2009, 10:57 AM
Cheers Steve

Had a problem with intermittent rough running for months on my 1994 Audi 80 2.0E Auto.

Couldn't solve the problem by changing plugs, HT leads, dist cap etc. Read your post, purchased a new ECU relay from an independant VW/Audi parts supplier at about £7 and has run without a problem ever since.

Thanks again for posting this info, saved me from parting with a mechanically sound car that couldn't pass the MOT emissions test.

A diagnostics test had shown that the voltages to the ECU were "all over the place" so presumably the injection system was receiving rubbish signals, lucky the car was running at all. Does this unit act as a voltage regulator?

scotty33
31-03-2009, 08:33 PM
Does this unit act as a voltage regulator?

I don't think it regulates the power, but poor soldering would make the power supply unstable.

johnhh
01-04-2009, 05:15 AM
Hi all,
I too had the relay 30 issue and eventually got round to buying a new one and getting the very kind gentleman at Continental Car Services here in Auckland to fit it for me.

$35 for the relay and no charge for fitting. I must say I was very impressed with the professional manner and service I got from everyone at Continental Cars – I can’t sing their praises enough and if I ever buy a new Audi that’s where I’ll be buying it from.

Anyway the car ran perfectly from the moment the new relay was fitted and there has been no occurrence of that annoying rough performance since.

I have since done a little research as I was interested to see what ‘Relay 30’ did and how it could affect the performance so much. Looking at a wiring diagram I obtained, it’s listed as ‘Relief Relay for X Contact’ (J59 on page 45/8) and according to Google, its function is to shut off all un-necessary electrics whilst the starter motor is cranking the engine. You know the sort of thing, when you start the engine the radio momentarily turns off. Looking at my old relay, the dry joints, and yes there where 2 lovely dry joints, where in the main solenoid circuit and the main switching circuit. So I guess the thing would have been chattering and sending a massive amount of noise around what should be DC circuits. I couldn’t quite see if the ECU was driven from this circuit but if it was it would be like powering the device from AC current rather than DC.

Perhaps someone has a list of all the circuits that this relay controls.

Well done forum – keep up the good work….
Johnhh
PS. Anyone know anything about rumbling noises from gearboxes?

niall4313
05-04-2009, 10:18 PM
Dont want to seem ungrateful here but this thread seems to have gone a little off the point the issue with relay 30 is already well and truly covered here and elsewhere on the forum without reverting back to it. Still have the same problem with rough running and non starting when hot as i had the first time i posted here over a year ago, diagnostics have shown no faults relay 30 has been replaced, along with every other item i can think of from distributor to afm to temp sensor, ecu, etc etc.. are there any new suggestions or observations that anyone can make to try and solve this? Any help is greatly appreciated.

johnhh
13-04-2009, 11:31 PM
Sorry to hear you’re still having troubles with your car. I posted my message because this forum helped me solve my issue and I wanted to leave some feedback to the rest of the useful contributors. I have only owned this car for less than 6 months so haven’t been looking for fix’s for as long as you have. Good luck with resolving your problems.
Once again, thanks VWAudi Forum, couldn’t have fixed it without you.
Regards
Johnhh

Sharpwit
26-05-2009, 12:55 AM
I have something similar with a '93 Avant's 2.6L ABC engine : juddering and far from its characteristic smooth-surge acceleration -- very unhappy under any kind of load, even just a bit of a slope, particularly with long journeys...

Is the 2.6L a very different car from the 2.0L mostly being discussed here or am I (in the first instance) looking for the same Relay then?

Has anybody had -- and fixed -- this problem on a 2.6?

Thanks


--
John

scotty33
26-05-2009, 07:48 AM
Hi

I don't think the v6 has the same relay.
I' ve heard of a few v6 that had problems with the ignition coil packs, this is just a guess, I suggest you read the fault codes, see if anything shows up? see link:

http://www.12v.org/maintenance/dtc.php?mil=no

Sharpwit
26-05-2009, 09:16 PM
Scotty

Thanks for that. And though it doesn't give me the quick and easy, surefire definitive answer we're all obviously after -- but if there isn't one, there simply isn't one -- even if it doesn't do that, you've nonetheless saved me an embarassing search beneath the steering column for a relay that's not there under a fascia I can't yet work out how to remove anyway, so that's good, I guess...

Short of a 12v owner out there who's had and FIXED this problem then, I'm going to drop her into the garage I think and see what they reckon...

Thanks again though. Yes.



--
John

Yellow Peril
08-05-2010, 12:02 PM
I know this is an old thread but just want to say a massive thanks to SteveInDaBury :D. I had the same problem as everyone else with my 1995 Audi Coupe 2.0L 8v and after checking relay 30, I had 3 dry joints. I soldered them back up, took the car for a test and now it is running very smooth with no misfire or judder when coming on and off the gas :biglaugh:. I use my Audi Coupe for a 100 mile commute to work every day and this problem which has been going on for months has really been annoying me to the point where I was just tempted to scrap the car. Anyhow, 15 mins with the soldering iron and no money spent, the old girl has been saved from visiting the big scrapyard in the sky and should hopefully give me another 100,000 miles of Audi motoring.

Thanks all and especially SteveInDaBury! :beerchug:

Adam

davemotion
04-05-2013, 02:46 PM
Relay 30 dry joint. Car fixed. I have a convertible Audi 2.0E B4. I couldn't put the roof down because the embarrassment of the juddering on a cool car...

Thanks to SteveInDaBury

wilfcountydurha
11-05-2015, 11:06 AM
Hi, I have a 1994 Audi 80, had same problem as everyone on this link, I tryed new spark plugs, air filter, fuel filter, misfire seemed better for awhile. But then got worse, checked fuel pump filter for blockage, no problems there. Tryed changing relay 30 after seeing this link, still misfire, changed plug leads and dissy cap, miss fire still there but not as bad. I noticed that when ever i fiddled under dash near relay 30 misfire would get better or worse , two weeks ago I took every relay out of car one by one, cleaned the spade connectors with rough sandpaper, sprayed wd40 into all the plugs where relays go, misfire gone, car has ran fine since then, so before you spend any money please try this on your audi