Leaking from where the pipe connects to caliper

[b5passat99]

My brake warning came on the other day, so i checked the fluid reservoir, it was well low, so i topped it up, light gone. Took the car for the mot, it failed on the brakes.
There is fluid leaking from the back brakes, its coming from where the pipes are screwed in to the caliper. the bolts are tight, but the bottom of both pipes are splaying out, so even if i loosen them on and re-tighten them, they stay splayed, it looks as if, theres a pressure or something forcing them out.
Hopefully this makes sense, and hopefully someone has an idea what to do http://www.passatworld.com/smilies/banghead.gif
I did disconnect and reconnect vacuum pipes the other week, getting access to throttle body, will that have something to do with it?

My engine is 1.6i ahl

[b5passat99]

Any1 got any ideas?

[Crasher]

This is common; it is the stupid ally washers against a steel brake hose fitting which cause electrolytic corrosion. The washers are not available as a spare part; you have to replace the hose completely. The left is 8E0 611 763 K and the right is 8E0 611 764 K and they cost £17.14 each. Sometimes the corrosion causes damage to the face of the caliper where the washer seats down onto and this means having the face re-cut by someone who has the tool or replacing the caliper.

[Frank.A]

My local independant VW expert informs me that this is a common fault with UK vehicles due as Crasher states to the aluminium washers and electrolytic action.Evidently European vehicles are fitted with copper washers and do not have this problem.

Best,
Frank

[Crasher]

They all have ally washers as far as I know. We have had terrible problems on the Golf 4 with this and so we had Goodridge make us a new clear covered braided hose with a coupling on the pipe end so we could make up our own pipes and hoses. The beauty of this is the banjo bolt has a replaceable copper washer. According to VW, if you disconnect one of the original banjo bolts, you are supposed to replace the complete pipe.

[b5passat99]

Crasher Frank Thanx 4 ya responces :beerchug:

Will investigate once its defrosted out there, guess its down to VW today, I dont stop paying out on this car lol :(

Crasher, That pipe ya had made up, sounds expensive !?

[Crasher]

The hoses are £28.50 for the pair and you need to get the connecting pipes made up locally to suit the car.

[b5passat99]

Just foned VW, theyve quoted me £9.70 each for the flexy hoses,
that sounds too cheap? must be something wrong there, VW r never cheap lol

[b5passat99]

The hoses are £28.50 for the pair and you need to get the connecting pipes made up locally to suit the car.

Thanx crasher, im not gonna bother, this car is takin up too much money and time.

Hope ya name refers to parties and not cars lol

[Crasher]

Err no, the latter!

[kenney]

Hi .(Evidently European vehicles are fitted with copper washers and do not have this problem) not true!,this is a very common fault, comes mainly from the salt they use on the roads winter time. But what we do mostly is remove the original washers and replace them with copper washers if the hose is not corroded

[b5passat99]

Err no, the latter!

oops! :banghead:

[b5passat99]

Hi .(Evidently European vehicles are fitted with copper washers and do not have this problem) not true!,this is a very common fault, comes mainly from the salt they use on the roads winter time. But what we do mostly is remove the original washers and replace them with copper washers if the hose is not corroded

Hiya kenney :D thanx 4 the info :D im not driving on roads with salt from now on lol guess im not going to the coast for me hols then lol

Pipes have been ordered 4 2morow,
will try an get some copper washers as well

[Crasher]

If you try and remove the ally washers you can damage the banjo bolt, fit them as they come. We spray a little Würth wax around the fitting.

[b5passat99]

If you try and remove the ally washers you can damage the banjo bolt, fit them as they come. We spray a little Würth wax around the fitting.

Thanx 4 the nods on that mate :D

never heard of Wurth wax b4

[Crasher]

http://www.wurth.co.uk/catalogue/pdfs/UK-CD_03_1035.pdf

[b5passat99]

http://www.wurth.co.uk/catalogue/pdfs/UK-CD_03_1035.pdf

Cheerz crasher :D

[passat tdi130]

can someone explain the banjo bolt etc..!

as i am getting a fluid loss problem only just started doing it within last week'ish

i could do with finding out what to look for..

[Crasher]

Just fit a new pipe, about £30. Make sure the surface of the caliper where the sealing ring seats is not damaged by corrosion, if it is you will have to replace the caliper. I have seen cheap recon calipers delivered with this fault…

[caldirun]

This is common; it is the stupid ally washers against a steel brake hose fitting which cause electrolytic corrosion. The washers are not available as a spare part; you have to replace the hose completely. The left is 8E0 611 763 K and the right is 8E0 611 764 K and they cost £17.14 each. Sometimes the corrosion causes damage to the face of the caliper where the washer seats down onto and this means having the face re-cut by someone who has the tool or replacing the caliper.
Is it not possible to use a copper washer kit and replace the ally washers?

[vwcabriolet1971]

I replaced both rear brake hoses on my old '99 MK4 Golf some years ago. They were not leaking but as I was fitting new calipers it made sense to fit new hoses at same time. The old washers were thin soft copper and were obviously distorted/crushed and couldn't really be safely re-used . Maybe these copper washers were at some time replaced by aluminium washers by VW.
I bought a pair of GSF hoses ( about £6 pair cheaper than VW) but was disappointed to find that they came without any washers. I knew that the sealing of the fluid joint was done by soft copper washers in conjunction with an annular raised ribs on the hose end fiitting . The ribs crush into the copper to form the seal both sides of the washer. I then found I couldn't get washers to fit from normal plumbing outlets and had to buy complete new hoses from VW as they didn't stock the washers separately. GSF refunded the cost of the their hoses when I told them that copper washers were not available separately. The reply was that I was was the first to raise this as a problem !
The recommended tightening torque for the new banjo bolts is quite low
(25Nm from memory) as the copper washers should not be over crushed / split.

[Crasher]

Not officially, no. The washer ID is smaller than the bolt and firstly getting the washer off can be difficult to do without damaging the bolt and then a replacement washer would have a slightly larger ID which may not seal correctly. The official line is to replace the pipe every time the banjo bolt is released. It is brakes and I cannot advise ANYTHING that is against VAG policy. VAG do not even recommend copper seals, only aluminium or titanium but copper is used in Goodridge hose sets.

[passat tdi130]

CRASHER i assume i would see fluid leaking from the point where the pipe goes to the caliper..?

its just i have read that the clutch to could be causing similar problem..?

however i am not noticing any prob's with clutch in any way...

your valued help would be great

cheers sean

[Crasher]

Yes you would see fluid dripping down the caliper. By the way, the torque specs are

Torque setting of banjo bolt on brake calliper with aluminium seal (silver) 45 Nm.

Torque setting of banjo bolt on brake calliper with titanium seal (black) 38 Nm.

[passat tdi130]

yep found it its the o/s rear caliper leaking i have ordered a new caliper and a hose CRASHER is the rear caliper a banjo type or screw in thread fitting type..? i have not looked at it i have just seen the fluid

i have asked about the washers both at vw and parts supplier and they dont list the washers and there is none supplied with hose either apparently

[Crasher]

It is a banjo fitting and the washers come on the hose, pre-fitted and not removable.

[passat tdi130]

ah ic so you dont replace the bolt then..?

[Crasher]

The bolt comes fitted in the hose end with the seals already on.

[passat tdi130]

is this for a vag part or aftermarket also..?

[vwcabriolet1971]

The seals on my old '99 MK4 Golf hoses (both the original & VW replacements ) were copper not aluminium . Crasher is correct that the washers are captive on the banjo bolts . The inner holes are tri-lobular in shape . I'm sure this was done to ensure that the factory did not fit hoses without the sealing washers as well as making sure that any replacements were fitted with the correct washers. The washers could be removed fairly easily but would be distorted (and not re-useable) in the process. Don't see why new snug fitting thin copper washer of similar size could not be used when re-using hoses providing that the hose end sealing "crush" ribs were not damaged. The washers on the hoses I removed showed a fair amount of "crushing zone" to effect the seal.
Also Crasher is correct with the tightening torque of 35Nm / 26 ft.lb. ( my memory is not what it used to be).

[Crasher]

is this for a vag part or aftermarket also..?

I only use genuine hoses for this job.

[passat tdi130]

crasher i assume the pipe is the metal pipe to rubber pipe that is clipped down and not just a length of rubber hose.. exactly as it is originally on the passat..?

[Crasher]

The rear caliper hose on a Passat 3B is metal/plastic covered braided crimped together assembly.

[Peter D]

Copper washers 16 mm OD 12.5 mm ID 1mm thick. My local Vag Indi stocks them. Clean all mating surfaces and inspect closely for corrosion. If all's well then rebuild an torque to 45 Nm. This siezed washer is also used on Peugeot sump plugs. Part number 333 11 0050 at ECP but then have gone over to aluminium. Regards peter