What to do now?!?!?!? Help me!

[Tallulah]

I have a 1.6 S 16v W reg mk4 golf engine AUS. I recently had the timing belt changed and when this was done we noticed that the 2 of the plastic wheels had split and started to open up and there was some broken circular shaped plastic in the bottom cam cover. How the belt was still running i'm not too sure but it had obviously slipped a tooth at some point as I had been suffering with a misfire problem for a couple of months and the engine had sounded very 'lumpy' and after the belt was changed all hell broke loose , the car would barely run and when it did everytime you came to a stop it just died! So I called the RAC and they found that pressure in number 4 cylinder was down (other 3 were fine). The garage came and collected it the following day and confirmed this, number 4 was leaking, they replaced bent valves and everything (I hoped ) would be great................UNFORTUNATLY......it's not!!
Now although the car is drivable, i seem to be using alot of fuel, the engine starts at 1000rpm when cold but quickly drops to 601?? rpm it sounds like it's fighting itself, like it wants to stall! The revs seem down in general, the engine sounds terrible!! They checked for air leaks around the manifold and found nothing and they don't really seem to have any other ideas apart from undo everything again and look for other faults, and after spending £590 already this isn't really an option i'd like to go into! The only thing they did mention was that when they re-tested the pressure's AFTER fixing the bent valves, number 4 still wasn't running as well as 2 and 3 but they also found number 1 cylinder was a bit down , although they tested them all for leaks?!?!?! Please, PLEASE someone help me as I really don't know what to try next and I LOVE MY CAR!!!!!!:1zhelp:

[80sport]

Hmmm, what kind of garage did you take it to? Can't believe they gave the car back in that condition.... Sounds really strange.

[Tallulah]

It was a private garage, they did say when I went to pick up the car that they weren't happy with it but they didn't really know what to try next and didn't understand why it was running the way it was!?! They said to bring it back in a couple of weeks and if the pressure's are still low then they can investigate it but they didn't want to spend any more of my money than they needed too! BUT I need my car to work better than it is at the moment as it's driving me CrAzY!

[80sport]

they didn't really know what to try next and didn't understand why it was running the way it was!?! They said to bring it back in a couple of weeks and if the pressure's are still low then they can investigate it

Gee, sounds like they're hoping for a miracle (the compression going up on it's own). Did they do a compression test and check if it's losing pressure on valves or rings? The easiest way of doing it is doing the compression once, then adding a bit of oil to each cylinder and if the oil increases the pressure significantly it's most likely the rings, if it doesn't affect it it's most likely the valves. They should have checked if there are any leaks between cylinders.

I can't imagine any reputable technician / mechanic just giving up like that. Did they pressure test the head before fitting it back to the car? Did they skim the head before refitting it?

Finally, did they check the timing correctly? Something is just not right, they gave up very easily....

Good luck, sounds like you'll need it.

[Tallulah]

[quote=80sport;125227]
Finally, did they check the timing correctly? quote]

I presume the timing is correct as they had to re-fit the timing belt after they had taken the engine apart. All I know is that they replaced the valves in cylinder 4, because it leaked so badly they just presumed this was the ONLY problem although I did tell them it had been misfireing for ages before the belt was even fitted. I do want to take it back but i'm scared of the cost and also I wish they had checked everything out before they had put it all back together!! I'm thinking i might have to take it to caffyns and get a second opinion??!??

[80sport]

Well, they were supposed to check and adjust the timing when fitting the cambelt but have they done it? All the mechanics I know would have checked or at least advised to check the head (pressure test). I find it hard to believe a mechanic replacing valves in one cylinder and not being able to tell you if the engine is leaking on valves or rings....
Nobody is perfect and even the best mechanic can make a mistake reassembling an engine, the key is if it's their mistake, they have to put it right FOC.
Did they ask you if you wanted the head pressure tested and you declined? Did they check the head if it was warped in any way and maybe required a skim?
How did you find this garage, did someone you know recommend it?
Where in the UK are you?

[Tallulah]

They tested the pressures in all 4 cylinders when they first collected the car, when i went to pick it up they told me they hadn't replaced the whole 'head' as they'd been quoted alot of money for it, so they had just changed the valves. They also said they cleaned out the throttle body as it was gunked up and then when they had finished putting it back together and it wasn't running right, they checked for air leaks but couldn't find any? I think that was it. The only thing that worries me slightly is the fact that cylinder 4 started to leak after 1 + 1/2 hrs of them testing it.......so did they end the test there??? If they had left it overnight, like they should have would cylinder 1 have leaked as well?? Did they check all the other valves just incase?? I think I will have to go down and have a word! I'm in Sussex btw i went to this garage as i have had a couple of services there and they are a nice bunch of lads, their labour is also more pocket friendly than caffyns!!!

[Tallulah]

I am going back to garage soon as it stalled in Asda's car park today and I am getting fed up of the wooshy engine noise i'll post back when they have 'advised me' for future reference of others!! In the meantime if anyone happens to have any suggestions then feel free!!

[Crasher]

This is a common problem with the AUS engine; they are extremely sensitive to a drop in compression. Compression loss is common on these due to people always using the incorrect grade of fuel, 95RON normal unleaded, on a regular basis as the use of this is only allowed in exceptional circumstances, look inside your petrol flap for this info where it says min octane 98/95. If the compression on one cylinder is even as much as 1 bar behind another it will run poorly and may bring on the engine check light-does this come on, and then it drops out the injector on that cylinder to reduce pollution. Also it sounds as though the throttle body needs cleaning and re-adapting but first of all you need to have an accurate compression check carried out. When I rebuild these, they are such fussy little engines I always fit a genuine VAG exchange replacement head.

[Tallulah]

Thanks for your comments, they did say they cleaned out the throttle body but didn't say they did anything else?? I did start off when I first got the car using 98ron unleaded but as petrol prices have increased I have used 95 probably for at least a year. I did notice a drop in performance and guessed it was due to the fuel BUT I didn't realise this could actually damage the engine. I am going to go to garage next wed and get them to take the pressure's again, in the meantime I will fill 'er up with some 98 and see how it goes but i'm guessing this won't solve all her problems!! (would the bp ultimate help)??

[Tallulah]

Well I took the car back to the garage and they re-ran the compression tests, cylinders 2 + 3 are both still fine (130) cylinder 1 is still down a fraction (120) and cylinder 4 has come up from (80) to (95-100). They cleaned the throttle body again but said they can't re-adapt it as they don't have the software for this, but they said it's not important as it re-learns things anyway??? I have been quoted £160 by the local VW dealer for a full VAG check but this seems quite a lot of money??!?? The garage said that there is nothing else they can do for me, and the reason the idle/compression might be low could be worn piston rings but to check this they would have to take the engine apart again!
They advised just to leave it as the car still runs, but if anyone can give me any advice I would be grateful THANKS :1zhelp:

[Nutty]

I am getting fed up of the wooshy engine noise

Can you put a bit more detail on this please ?

[Crasher]

That low compression on 4 will cause running problems and will be due to burnt exhaust valve seats, the head will have to come off and I suggest an VW exchange head at £624 plus fitting.

[Nutty]

That low compression on 4 will cause running problems and will be due to burnt exhaust valve seats, the head will have to come off and I suggest an VW exchange head at £624 plus fitting.

Wow.. I hate throwing money at stuff before Ive properly tested the components..

There is a pressure tester available, it puts a compressed air charge into the cylinder, you then listen for the leak, a leak out of the exhaust would be as above, a faulty exhaust valve/seat, a leak detected at the inlet track would suggest a fault on an inlet valve/seat, a leak detected at the oil filler or dipstick tube would suggest a piston / Rings or bore fault..

Good luck, ask the garage to recheck their own work

[Crasher]

It is called a leak down test.

[Tallulah]

Thanks for all the advice guys, I just don't have the money to do anything at the moment so I am going to have to put up with it, in your opinion am I doing damage to the engine by just leaving it?? Not that I have any choice but just wondered?? I now have a new problem as well... my starter motor has started to stick so everytime I start the car I get this high pitched whirring noise. Starting to think i'd be better off selling the car for scrap and getting an annual bus pass!!! :(

[Crasher]

Squawking starters are common and it isn't a big problem. By driving your car with a running problem like you have will eventually destroy the catalytic converter and both lambda sensors, about £600 worth of parts plus labour.

[Tallulah]

The garage have offered to clean the starter motor for £40+vat but if i need a new one caffyns quoted me £160 plus an extra £80 which is refundable when i give them back my old one? Another expense :(

I had to buy a new cat for my car about 6months after getting it as the original one broke (got the tinkling sound)! It was about £360?? Do you think it will make the cat go very quickly or could I get away with it for 6-12 months??

[Tallulah]

Is there anyone in the sussex area that you know of that would have all the neccessary equipment to fix my beloved car????

I have just seen a website for TC Garage in copthorne, west sussex (nr gatwick airport I presume)?? Has anyone heard of these or used them?? The labour is quoted as £54 + vat seems quite reasonable.

[Crasher]

The life span of the cat in this situation depends on its make and how poorly the engine is running. If it was really bad the cat could fail in minuets but the AUS engine ECU will shut down an offending cylinders injector if the compression goes too low so reducing the strain on the cat. I would not recommend driving it like this for days, never mind months.

[Tallulah]

Just thought I would update this message for anyone who was reading or who is experiancing similar problems. I took the car to TC Garage nr.gatwick and they checked it over for me. The other garage had not set the timing correctly and this is why the car was still running lumpy - they re-did the timing and I got them to fit a new water pump whilst they were at it , also they noticed the aux drive belt tensioner had been 'forced' and so this needed to be replaced also. They also did the 'leak down test' and everything seemed fine. I am now £1000 lighter (between the 2 garages) but on the plus side.........she runs like a dream!!
I can definatley recommend TC Garage for anyone in the Sussex area , they were really nice and knew their stuff!

[MalcQV]

Glad it all ended well :beerchug:. I suggest your local garage don't do any more work on your car, but I guess you know that ;)

I can't believe they mis-set the timing, that is bad.

[Crasher]

I can't believe they mis-set the timing, that is bad

It is also extremely difficult to get it wrong if you use the locking pins.

[Tallulah]

It is also extremely difficult to get it wrong if you use the locking pins.

When you look at the engine , it is has dabs of paint on it. I seem to re-call from a post of yours that this isn't necessary if they use the correct equipment for the job - so no guesses as to what happened. The thing i'm annoyed about is if they didn't have the correct tools to do the job I would gladly have taken it somewhere else but I have paid them £590 for not actually fixing my car (they did replace bent valves in cy4), they also had the car for 4/5 days where as TC had it for 2 days and I got it back good as new for only £390!

[Crasher]

The special tool isn't cheap but pair of drill bits will suffice, so no excuses. I never mark any pulley and cover in relation to valve timing, if the tools or marks don't do the job for me, something is wrong. A 2.4 30v V6 I did the other day had paint marks from a recent belt change. I pinned the crank and tried to fit the cam to cam bar and it was miles out, so if I had gone with what it was set at, I would have set it incorrectly and if I had gone a little further out, I could have tipped a valve on a piston, not nice.

[jase0851]

sorry to resurect this thread but i have had a similar problem with my 1.4 axp with a garage putting the timing belt on wrong. but with mine the engine run ok but the check light was on but now when timed correctly it missfires like a good un and keeps coming up with g71 barometric sensor implausable ? but at least the engine check light has gone of

[Crasher]

What year is it?