C02 - is it really an issue - Formerly "speeding"

[STEWY L]

hope i've got this right, something to think about
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj171/stewy100/th_RoadSafetyat30and50mph.jpg (http://s272.photobucket.com/albums/jj171/stewy100/?action=view&current=RoadSafetyat30and50mph.flv)

[MalcQV]

Brilliant :p:D:D

And yes you got it right!

[Crasher]

Speed doesn’t kill, inappropriate use of speed kills. It is another example of politically correct tosh like man made Co2 causing climate change, I have a great way of reducing Co2, get all politicians to shut their traps.

[MalcQV]

Speed doesn’t kill, inappropriate use of speed kills. It is another example of politically correct tosh like man made Co2 causing climate change, I have a great way of reducing Co2, get all politicians to shut their traps.

^ For prime minister:p

[Baron_Samedi]

Frankly I think the whole CO2 thing is a marketing con to get us to sit for inane, emotional tax rises that can't be justified rationally.

[hagis]

I agree. A lot of CO2 is produced heating homes, but the government aren't falling over themselves to tax that, nor offer grants to do something about it.

[MalcQV]

Frankly I think the whole CO2 thing is a marketing con to get us to sit for inane, emotional tax rises that can't be justified rationally.

A good few years ago the threat was the Cold War. Now that has disappeared they need something else to keep us on our toes!

[Sam]

I agree. A lot of CO2 is produced heating homes, but the government aren't falling over themselves to tax that, nor offer grants to do something about it.

Ah, but they are meeting today to see if they can abolish patio heaters due to the CO2 they give off That's right, patio heaters.

[hagis]

That'll make a big difference. Morons.

[Crasher]

It is all (forgive the pun) a smoke screen as you have said, to milk us for more taxes to spend on inappropriate projects. Of the Co2 produced on this planet, a fraction of that is man made and a fraction of that fraction is produced by car tailpipe emissions. Governments are terrified of taxing homes over Co2 emissions, it would be political suicide (the little old lady and the less well off would be straight on the six o’clock news) but cars and businesses are easy meat.

If we really did want to do something about man made Co2 and had the balls to do it, we would stop buying anything made in China but they dare not say that either as it would sort of upset the Chinese, a bit!

Something I read recently said that the UK PLC (I hate that Blairite expression) as a whole is responsible for just 2% of the worlds man made Co2 production so that if you flicked the “big switch” and turned the whole country off completely, Chinese annual economic growth Co2 production would negate the 2% saving.

[Desertfish]

I wouldn’t exactly call it a smoke screen… Co2 gasses are indeed a big problem for global warming and as you mentioned Crasher, the Chinese are frightening. Bringing 2 factories a week online is pure madness. But who’s going to stop them?

There is a second issue though and that is that due to the ice caps melting, there are now vast amounts of methane being released in the atmosphere that were previously trapped. Those are only serving to accelerate the whole global warming process… Unfortunately you’ll only read about that stuff if you’re getting your nose in scientific papers (or in my case, if you g/f does). They won’t tell you that on TV though. Neither are they going to tell you that global warming is a natural phenomenon, and they are certainly not going to tell you that we are technically in the last stages of an ice age and that it is normal for our little globe to get warmer…

The fact that we are accelerating a natural process doesn’t make for sensational enough headlines compared to the ones that they are throwing around now stating that our climate will get really violent. In the mean time scientists openly disagree with the media (and with each other) about the whole subject and everyone is surprised that the little man regards to whole shebang as a load of bull.

And what does the government do? Apart from running around like a bunch of headless chickens trying to fix a problem they ignored for too long, they piggyback on the media in order to justify their high fuel tax… But as usual, it's the little man paying the price while no one dares to go after the big players. And to make matters worse, hardly anything useful is being done with the money being sucked out of us...

Anyway, nuff said… probably been boring everyone. Please wake up.:Blush2:

[Crasher]

No, not boring at all, it is a very important subject. Only a fool would deny that the place is getting warmer but I don't think (and apparently a lot of scientific types also don't agree, as you said) that it is much or indeed anything at all to do with man made Co2. I remember when I was at school, we were told we were going into a new ice age and that the whole of the UK would turn into a block of ice, now one lot says we will be growing grapes on our patio and another lot say it will freeze over even though it is getting warmer. Why should we believe them, they can’t even accurately predict the weather for the week ahead never mind hundreds of years! I think the scientists who disagree get ignored as there are plenty of funding grants around for the doom and gloom mongers so that governments can milk more tax out of us to spend on things not in the least bit connected with the environment. It would help immensely to reduce our Co2 output from traffic if we could actually get from A to B smoothly and quickly rather than sitting in a traffic jam pumping out fumes for no purpose and with some intelligent road management (using the infrastructure we already have) that could be brought closer, but it isn't politically sexy and they just aren’t interested. They just want us all on the bus, DNA tested, tagged and carrying an ID card. God help us if scientists ever come up with a way of reading our minds, we will be stuffed!

[STEWY L]

I wouldn’t exactly call it a smoke screen… Co2 gasses are indeed a big problem for global warming and as you mentioned Crasher, the Chinese are frightening. Bringing 2 factories a week online is pure madness. But who’s going to stop them?

There is a second issue though and that is that due to the ice caps melting, there are now vast amounts of methane being released in the atmosphere that were previously trapped. Those are only serving to accelerate the whole global warming process… Unfortunately you’ll only read about that stuff if you’re getting your nose in scientific papers (or in my case, if you g/f does). They won’t tell you that on TV though. Neither are they going to tell you that global warming is a natural phenomenon, and they are certainly not going to tell you that we are technically in the last stages of an ice age and that it is normal for our little globe to get warmer…

The fact that we are accelerating a natural process doesn’t make for sensational enough headlines compared to the ones that they are throwing around now stating that our climate will get really violent. In the mean time scientists openly disagree with the media (and with each other) about the whole subject and everyone is surprised that the little man regards to whole shebang as a load of bull.

And what does the government do? Apart from running around like a bunch of headless chickens trying to fix a problem they ignored for too long, they piggyback on the media in order to justify their high fuel tax… But as usual, it's the little man paying the price while no one dares to go after the big players. And to make matters worse, hardly anything useful is being done with the money being sucked out of us...

Anyway, nuff said… probably been boring everyone. Please wake up.:Blush2:
i saw that stuff about the methane on the telly only last week, siberia,or somewhere. they were chipping holes in the ice over a frozen lake and setting fire to it! mind we have the same sort of thing under our landfills, only we run engines off it and turn it into co2--smart:D love the crack lads,had no idea a light hearted clip
about a bloke not getting ran over would give rise to this, but please
lets have some more observations, very interesting, and indeed, as
already stated, important stuff.

[MalcQV]

Crasher and Desertfish, brilliant info indeed.

I did my carbon footprint thing (on the gov website) a few months ago and it is quite large, so I sort of got a little interested and poked around various website for and against.

It now seems more scientists agree on the man made Co2 making a real difference. Though I bet in 1943 more of the world thought that Hitler would end up being boss :D.
The thing is there are too many factors I think that can't be accounted for in the climate predictions, climate sensitivity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_sensitivity) and solar variation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_variation) to name two, then there is arguments about cause and effect. I guess you can see where my stance is :p

I ain't no meteorologist or geologist or any logist so I have to base my beliefs on what they tell me, and they really can't agree at all. So I will continue to drive cars (without cats too) and do long haul flights, I will even pay the extra tax they put on it (which is what they want really) until they say one way or the other :aargh4:

[Crasher]

The whole climate change subject has become an industry in itself and jobs for the boys, if it suddenly all gets proved to be tosh, what then? Anyway, say we spend the next 100 years making the world man made Co2 zero and man never makes a drop more pollution, one day we (planet earth) WILL get a smack on the nose by a dirty great chunk of space debris (again) and Yellowstone Park WILL blow its lid (again), that may cause a little climate disruption!

[DaveNN]

No, not boring at all, it is a very important subject. Only a fool would deny that the place is getting warmer but I don't think (and apparently a lot of scientific types also don't agree, as you said) that it is much or indeed anything at all to do with man made Co2. I remember when I was at school, we were told we were going into a new ice age and that the whole of the UK would turn into a block of ice, now one lot says we will be growing grapes on our patio and another lot say it will freeze over even though it is getting warmer. Why should we believe them, they can’t even accurately predict the weather for the week ahead never mind hundreds of years! I think the scientists who disagree get ignored as there are plenty of funding grants around for the doom and gloom mongers so that governments can milk more tax out of us to spend on things not in the least bit connected with the environment. It would help immensely to reduce our Co2 output from traffic if we could actually get from A to B smoothly and quickly rather than sitting in a traffic jam pumping out fumes for no purpose and with some intelligent road management (using the infrastructure we already have) that could be brought closer, but it isn't politically sexy and they just aren’t interested. They just want us all on the bus, DNA tested, tagged and carrying an ID card. God help us if scientists ever come up with a way of reading our minds, we will be stuffed!

One way to stuff them would be to invest in groundsource/airsource heat pumps...they can't tax that!! YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Saying that though, the Nordic Countries are suggesting that excess heat (generated within the home) be pumped back into the home during the Summer months....
Biomass (wood pellet) heating was seen to be 'eco-friendly', except when you consider that the trees have to be felled, transported, chopped up, pelleted, dried & transported again.
Premix/condensing boilers are the norm in the UK (new installations) these days.....but the best way to conserve energy (whether it's to reduce your CO2 emissions, though I produce methane, after a good night out!, or save a few quid) is to simply drop the set-point on your room 'stat a degree or so. Adequate insulation is a must!.....

[sicharnock]

that speeding vid is good!
i git banned for speeding
*****
i am also on the exact same page as you guys with all that co2 rubbish
government constantly screwing ppl over
you need to watch zietgiest!, it on google video

[Desertfish]

No, not boring at all, it is a very important subject. Only a fool would deny that the place is getting warmer but I don't think (and apparently a lot of scientific types also don't agree, as you said) that it is much or indeed anything at all to do with man made Co2. I remember when I was at school, we were told we were going into a new ice age and that the whole of the UK would turn into a block of ice, now one lot says we will be growing grapes on our patio and another lot say it will freeze over even though it is getting warmer. Why should we believe them, they can’t even accurately predict the weather for the week ahead never mind hundreds of years! I think the scientists who disagree get ignored as there are plenty of funding grants around for the doom and gloom mongers so that governments can milk more tax out of us to spend on things not in the least bit connected with the environment. It would help immensely to reduce our Co2 output from traffic if we could actually get from A to B smoothly and quickly rather than sitting in a traffic jam pumping out fumes for no purpose and with some intelligent road management (using the infrastructure we already have) that could be brought closer, but it isn't politically sexy and they just aren’t interested. They just want us all on the bus, DNA tested, tagged and carrying an ID card. God help us if scientists ever come up with a way of reading our minds, we will be stuffed!

Couple of good points. Personally, I like skeeing and I don't mind growing grapes on my patio either so I'm not bothered which way it goes (although now that I finally own a convertible I tend to prefer the warmer weather:D)

Getting back to the point though (kind off...) and adding to DaveNN's comments; me and a mate of mine are currently in the final stages of a flat conversion. We've done everything according to UK building regs so we could get an energy certificate (although we don't really need it as it is only a 1 bed flat). The amount of insulation we had to put in there is just insane. And be aware guys, in a few months time it's going to change again... Now you have to put 100mm of insulation in the walls and 150mm in the ceiling/roof but they are going to add an extra 50mm to the floor... If you're planning to do some DIY-ing and are going to touch your floors you better do it now...

Anyway, this is just to illustrate the extend the government is currently going to in order to prevent heatloss. We've put the windows in 2 weeks ago. The walls and floors are dried out so we turned the boiler down a few notches. Believe me, even though it is the middle of the winter, we hardly need the heating on in there. Gas and electricity consumption will be very low. That's the way the government wants us to go... No wonder gas and electricity prices are going up... For some obscure climate related reason, (or at least that's what they claim it is) the government wants us to use less energy. On the flip side of the coin there is the facts, and one of the facts is that at the current rate of consumption, gas supplies in the North Sea will be running out in about 15 to 20 years time and the UK will have to rely on imports. So they need to do somenthing about that. The problem is, the less we use, the less tax they get...!

Then there is the issue of electricity supply in itself. At the moment, there are only 2 alternatives (or at least that is what we are made to believe). First is Nuclear energy. But who wants a nuclear plant in their back garden? On the other side there are windmill farms. But by the time they managed to get enough windmills in in order to support the electricity needs of the current population, we are quite a few years down the line and by that time population will have grown to the extend that there is a shortage in windmills again... So what is the alternative... Solar energy? We wanted to put a solar panel in the roof of the flat. Thought it was a good idea... Until we saw the price. Then we found out that you can't even get a tax cut if you got one of them installed. So where is the insentive. Want me to go green? I'd be happy to do it but at least give me something back for my efforts!

Than there's fuel consumption. Aparently in the US you get a $4000 annual tax cut if you buy a hybrid car. And what do you get in the UK for your efforts? Absolutely nothing...!!! Actually you're getting punished. A hybrid car is more expensive than models of an equivalent size, and now that they are calculating your road tax on the Co2 emissions of your car you're not even getting a benefit either. A Toyota Prius for example is a 44mpg car. The egg heads are forgetting that below 30mph the thing runs on electricity so in a traffic jam, your carbon footprint is exactley 0... They don't take that into account when they calculate your roadtax do they?

Government is moaning and ranting about how we need to go greener and conserve energy. But if you're trying to do something of your own back as an individual you're getting punished for it because every good alternative is a tax-loss. And they STILL want me to believe we're not getting sucked dry...? What's the next step? We're gonna get taxed for the air we breathe?

Anyways... I noticed I just used up my 2008 ranting allowance already. Better stop windging. Sorry for the long post guys. I'll keep it shorter next time. Promisse. :biglaugh:

[DaveNN]

Couple of good points. Personally, I like skeeing and I don't mind growing grapes on my patio either so I'm not bothered which way it goes (although now that I finally own a convertible I tend to prefer the warmer weather:D)

Getting back to the point though (kind off...) and adding to DaveNN's comments; me and a mate of mine are currently in the final stages of a flat conversion. We've done everything according to UK building regs so we could get an energy certificate (although we don't really need it as it is only a 1 bed flat). The amount of insulation we had to put in there is just insane. And be aware guys, in a few months time it's going to change again... Now you have to put 100mm of insulation in the walls and 150mm in the ceiling/roof but they are going to add an extra 50mm to the floor... If you're planning to do some DIY-ing and are going to touch your floors you better do it now...

Anyway, this is just to illustrate the extend the government is currently going to in order to prevent heatloss. We've put the windows in 2 weeks ago. The walls and floors are dried out so we turned the boiler down a few notches. Believe me, even though it is the middle of the winter, we hardly need the heating on in there. Gas and electricity consumption will be very low. That's the way the government wants us to go... No wonder gas and electricity prices are going up... For some obscure climate related reason, (or at least that's what they claim it is) the government wants us to use less energy. On the flip side of the coin there is the facts, and one of the facts is that at the current rate of consumption, gas supplies in the North Sea will be running out in about 15 to 20 years time and the UK will have to rely on imports. So they need to do somenthing about that. The problem is, the less we use, the less tax they get...!

Then there is the issue of electricity supply in itself. At the moment, there are only 2 alternatives (or at least that is what we are made to believe). First is Nuclear energy. But who wants a nuclear plant in their back garden? On the other side there are windmill farms. But by the time they managed to get enough windmills in in order to support the electricity needs of the current population, we are quite a few years down the line and by that time population will have grown to the extend that there is a shortage in windmills again... So what is the alternative... Solar energy? We wanted to put a solar panel in the roof of the flat. Thought it was a good idea... Until we saw the price. Then we found out that you can't even get a tax cut if you got one of them installed. So where is the insentive. Want me to go green? I'd be happy to do it but at least give me something back for my efforts!

Than there's fuel consumption. Aparently in the US you get a $4000 annual tax cut if you buy a hybrid car. And what do you get in the UK for your efforts? Absolutely nothing...!!! Actually you're getting punished. A hybrid car is more expensive than models of an equivalent size, and now that they are calculating your road tax on the Co2 emissions of your car you're not even getting a benefit either. A Toyota Prius for example is a 44mpg car. The egg heads are forgetting that below 30mph the thing runs on electricity so in a traffic jam, your carbon footprint is exactley 0... They don't take that into account when they calculate your roadtax do they?

Government is moaning and ranting about how we need to go greener and conserve energy. But if you're trying to do something of your own back as an individual you're getting punished for it because every good alternative is a tax-loss. And they STILL want me to believe we're not getting sucked dry...? What's the next step? We're gonna get taxed for the air we breathe?

Anyways... I noticed I just used up my 2008 ranting allowance already. Better stop windging. Sorry for the long post guys. I'll keep it shorter next time. Promisse. :biglaugh:

Some good points here.....Barrage (tidal) generators would be very useful...a darn site more than solar & wind power! In fact, I think that we might have got the wind farm idea **** about face! Think about it, when it's not windy they don't turn. When it is they do. I reckon that the wind turbines actually MAKE the wind!:D
Domestic solar panels (1600watt output max) are incredibly heavy. I'm not a builder BUT I do suspect that the roof trusses would have to be upgraded to compensate.
DCHP (Domestic Combined Heat & Power) WILL make an impact. BUT they are still in their infancy....
Designing houses with a South facing aspect would be a start (using the Sun...for 'free').
Modern RF/Opentherm room 'stats are of great benefit, helping to maintain the correct & most efficient comfort conditions.

Energy use/efficiency is a bit of a hobby horse of mine (well, it's linked to my job, actually...feel free to PM me for info).

[Crasher]

below 30mph the thing runs on electricity so in a traffic jam, your carbon footprint is exactley 0

Not exactly true, the power used from the batteries has to have been generated at some point.

[Sam]

Not exactly true, the power used from the batteries has to have been generated at some point.

Think just how much waste goes into the production of the batteries used by these "green cars"

Where do the duff batteries go?

What about when you're recharging the battery...

It's all a loud of pish.

Someone mentioned getting rid of China above.....even if they (and other big producers) halved their production I'm sure we'd see some effects

[Crasher]

It's me who has the problem with China. On the subject of batteries for such sheds as the Pious (think about it) the production of the batteries is laying waste to large areas of Canadian wilderness and waste batteries are already a problem on normal cars, what happens when they are ten times the size and need replacing every four years? The whole zero emissions vehicle thing is utter tosh anyway; after all, even if the car is fully electric, the power has to come from somewhere and that’s usually coal fired power stations.

[Sam]

It's me who has the problem with China. On the subject of batteries for such sheds as the Pious (think about it) the production of the batteries is laying waste to large areas of Canadian wilderness and waste batteries are already a problem on normal cars, what happens when they are ten times the size and need replacing every four years? The whole zero emissions vehicle thing is utter tosh anyway; after all, even if the car is fully electric, the power has to come from somewhere and that’s usually coal fired power stations.

I agree completely, I'm not sure there'll ever be such a thing as a green car.

Take this hideous thing as an example;

http://www.goingreen.co.uk/store/

The G Wiz.

They claim it's Carbon Neutral. It may be, but the upkeep (charging it after it's covered only 48 miles) and production isn't.

For fun, build your own http://www.goingreen.co.uk/store/buyextras

[Desertfish]

It's me who has the problem with China. On the subject of batteries for such sheds as the Pious (think about it) the production of the batteries is laying waste to large areas of Canadian wilderness and waste batteries are already a problem on normal cars, what happens when they are ten times the size and need replacing every four years? The whole zero emissions vehicle thing is utter tosh anyway; after all, even if the car is fully electric, the power has to come from somewhere and that’s usually coal fired power stations.

Hadn't considered the waiste batterie issue though. But as you mention yourself, it does render the idea of electrical driven cars useless... What's the alternative? Hydrogen? I'm ot entirely up to speed on all the details, but if I'm correct, a hydrogen car can deliver the same performance modern petrol/diesel driven cars. But there are two problems; Hydrogen evaporates quite quickly and you have to change the whole infrastructure (aparently it's impossible to convert a conventional petrol station to one that can store and supply hydrogen for cars).

If neither hydrogen nor electricity are the way foreward than what is? I mean, 39 years ago, we sent people to the moon in a moon capsule that has less processing power than an average mobile phone? And you're trying to tell me we aren't able to get a car running on anything else then pertol or diesel while also making it a viable solution? Don't make me laugh...

As Jeremy Clarkson said once in an interview: stepping away from the traditional combustion engine is a huge gamble for car manufacturers. If they make the wrong desision they could potentially loose quite a lot of money.

[Crasher]

Hydrogen just isn’t viable, its calorific value is much lower than that of petrol and the storage/infrastructure issues are a nightmare. Even if the retail infrastructure could be swiftly introduced, what about delivering the stuff, in tankers! Then take the pragmatic view, how about ten years down the line (after the car is introduced) when some young blood seventeen year old starts modifying his Mk10 Corsa and begins to mess around with the hydrogen tank and ends up blowing up the neighbourhood. Petrol that leaks is quite rightly considered pretty lethal stuff but hydrogen is a gas, a very light gas, and when it leaks it has no aroma, no puddle, nothing-just a sodding big bang when it goes up! I can just see a vision of the future, mushroom clouds of M10 Corsa’s exploding all over the country. And another aspect hydrogen won’t deal with either and that is diesel engined or compression ignition vehicles used for all sorts of jobs such as construction and haulage. The only light on the horizon I can see is a gradual swap over from purely fossil fuel petrol to E85 (15% petrol/85% Ethanol) as this would make the oil reserves we have left last much longer. Personally I would only support the introduction of E85 IF a way of producing Ethanol on a massive scale can be found without taking the food out of the mouths of the world’s poorer people and without cutting down what is left of the rain forests. GM are rumoured to have found a way of producing Ethanol from all sorts of rubbish mater on a huge scale. We may criticise our transatlantic cousins across the pond for all manner of misdemeanours including not waking up to the energy crises BUT when the Yanks get moving on something, not a lot can stand in their way, just look how they responded to WWII once they realised it had started. The Americans are addicted to a hydrocarbon lifestyle so they will do anything to preserve it. E85 has some of drawbacks in that it still doesn’t have the calorific value of petrol so you use about 15% more and cold starting can be a problem but an upside is the very high octane rating of between 100 and 105MON, Take a 2001 onwards Golf 4 GTI 1.8T for example, that could be OBD port re-mapped for E85 (the injectors will flow the additional fuel quite happily) but at the same time you could take the boost and advance up further than you can with 95RON petrol, so more power or from a designers point of view, a smaller lighter engine would suffice so reducing the increased consumption negative aspect. As to whether the fuel system of a Golf 4 GTI is E85 compatible is another matter, I suspect some changes would have to be made to prevent it attacking rubber, magnesium etc. On the compression ignition side bio diesel is a very viable alternative and as long as it is ethically and ecological sound in its production, I think that is the way ahead there.

[Desertfish]

Can anyone please tell me what the appropriate icon is for "I'm speechless"? Cause I need it now:biglaugh: Seems I got some reading up to do. It's difficult to win an argument like this with a gilfriend who's an environemental scientist so I need all the help I can get... Thanks Crasher, you just gave me this weekends reading material...

Although, didn't the Yanks get involved in WWII because of the deportation of the Jews? As far as I'm aware of, it was Jewish money that helped build the US and they were pretty ****** off at a certain gentleman who was putting people of their own religious beliefs on trains never the hear of then again...

And all because the principal of the Art Acadeny in Vienna (who was a Jewish fellow) told the gentleman in question he had no artistic talent and refused to teach him how to paint pretty pictures.... tss tss... it's a mad world we're living in:biglaugh:

[Crasher]

No, I think it was a little incident on the 7th of December 1941 that woke them up. Please do not swear though, please!

[buster]

No, I think it was a little incident on the 7th of December 1941 that woke them up. Please do not swear though, please!

I think it started before that crasher.

Like when roosevelt started applying economic sanctions on Japan to slow down their economic growth.

Like the fact that Washington were aware of the attack on Pearl Harbour because they had broken the Japanese Naval Codes, but didn't warn commanders in Hawaii because they needed the Japs to attack.

Most of the American public were against entering the war, so the Japanese were steered into attacking by roosevelt and Stimson (American secretary of war) to enable him to enter the US into the war with the backing of the whole of America. i.e it was done to unite america and allow roosevelt to enter the war against Germany (Allied with Japan)

Bit more complicated than those nasty little yellow men attacking the US without reason.

Then after the war, after tricking the Japanese into the war in the first place, we won, then helped the Germans and the Japanese to rebuild their economy and allow them to destroy our car industry! (this is the bit about cars - we are in the 'Chat - just to talk about cars' section after all :Blush2:)

[Crasher]

A conspiracy theorist! OK, officially woke up! You didn't mention that Churchill knew about the attack without the US having cracked JN25, that the radar installation was purposely ignored and that it took Hitler declaring war on the US to get them involved in the European theatre (why he did that is still anyone’s guess) and you sound like you have the same interests as me!

[Desertfish]

Didn't know about that one Buster... But your theory does make sense. This could explain why it was that the 2 aircraft carriers the Japs were really after were out manoevres. That was a bit too much of a coincidence and personally I don't believe in those... (lol)

Besides, it was Churchill who ordered the attack on the Italian fleet in 1940 where only 24 bombers made short work with all but one of the Italian ship in the italian fleet during the strike on Taranto... When you mentioned Pearl Harbour, was that the reason you asked us not to swear Crasher? Because it it was in fact the Brits who showed the Japs how to carry out such a strike...:biglaugh:

[MalcQV]

Can anyone please tell me what the appropriate icon is for "I'm speechless"? Cause I need it now:biglaugh: Seems I got some reading up to do. It's difficult to win an argument like this with a gilfriend who's an environemental scientist so I need all the help I can get... Thanks Crasher, you just gave me this weekends reading material...


Your girlfriend is firmly in the "manmade Co2 is the cause"? That has to be difficult for you being a bit of a petrolhead!

[Desertfish]

Surprisingly she's not that bad... Maybe that's why I'm able to stick it out with her for such a long time...:biglaugh:

Actually she's the one who pointed out to me that the media is full of bull in regards to the subject, that they should stop whinging and provide people with the hard facts. In fact, she's more taking Crashers line in claiming that we're better of doing something about the three big polluters (China, India, US) rather than concentrating all our efforts on Co2 emissions by cars... It would help (a bit) if we got rid of those but it's not the solution to the whole problem.

[buster]

A conspiracy theorist! OK, <snip> and you sound like you have the same interests as me!

Not really LOL. My daughter is covering this in college at the moment.

The only conspiracies I am interested in at the moment, apart from the two towers, is the speed camera fiasco, where the government actually want us to believe they are there for our safety.:rolleyes:

[Sam]

Thread title changed :D

[Crasher]

Because it it was in fact the Brits who showed the Japs how to carry out such a strike


But they worked out the shallow water torpedo fin system for themselves.


is the speed camera fiasco

Totally with you there, scameras. They are about to take our minds off that with the widespread roll out of Congestion Charging. On the conspiracy theory note, I am convinced that the phasing of the lights in my area has been changed with the sole intention of snarling up the traffic so that when CC comes in, they can alter them back and say “look what a difference it has made”. Hang on, aren’t we in danger of going back to the threads original title?

I am beginning to really despise this country, I wish I could emigrate.

[Sam]

Totally with you there, scameras. They are about to take our minds off that with the widespread roll out of Congestion Charging. On the conspiracy theory note, I am convinced that the phasing of the lights in my area has been changed with the sole intention of snarling up the traffic so that when CC comes in, they can alter them back and say “look what a difference it has made”. Hang on, aren’t we in danger of going back to the threads original title?

I am beginning to really despise this country, I wish I could emigrate.

Make sure you're seated for the latest round of ridiculousness;

The most heavily polluting lorries are facing charges of £200 per day to enter Greater London as Britain's first low emission zone (LEZ) comes into force. - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7225527.stm

Don't emigrate, we'd be lost without you :D

[Crasher]

I would go if I could but I have too many ties over here.

That new system coming into today is a laugh, not!

[P0WERS160]

Also..it has been proven by scientists, that reducing CO2 emissions WILL speed up global warming!!! As the carbon particles (i.e. smoke) actually reflects a lot of the Sun's infra-red and UV rays from hitting the Earth..

[Crasher]

That’s global dimming, a phenomenon that was noticed in the days after 911 when all US flights were grounded.

[bora(ing) nick]

That’s global dimming,

I thought that was caused by Big Brother and reality tv shows!

How diverse is this thread.... Speeding - Co2 - reality tv. :D

Nick

[Desertfish]

Don't emigrate yet Crasher... Somethings wrong everywhere you go. I ran away from Belgium because I thought it was a Banana Republic... (actually I still believe it is). Look where I ended up.:D

[Desertfish]

But they worked out the shallow water torpedo fin system for themselves.

True... But than again that's Japs for you. They just take everyone elses ideas and turn them into perfection. What have the Japanese ever invented?

[Crasher]

Japanese ever invented

Sushi, Karaoke.

[Desertfish]

Ok... You win (again)...:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:

[Crasher]

I get the feeling this thread is about to morph, again.

[Ben]

Any one remember Morph off of tony hart or was it johnny ball?

that arty prog for kids.

Morph was a orangy plastercint character.




http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2364/2123898724_0260719978.jpg?v=0http://l.yimg.com/www.flickr.com/images/spaceball.gif





From Wiki -

Morph is an animated Plasticine stop-motion character who appeared with Tony Hart starting from 1977 on several of his UK TV programs, notably Take Hart and Hart Beat. Morph was produced for the BBC by Aardman Animations, later famous for Wallace and Gromit in association with Link Licensing.

Morph's 30th Birthday was recently celebrated by creator Peter Lord and celebrity fan and comedian Phill Jupitus at events for the Encounters Film Festival in Bristol.

Morph appeared mainly in one minute "shorts" interspersed throughout the show. These were connected to the main show by having Hart deliver a line or two to Morph who would reply in gobbledygook but with meaningful gestures. Later on, Morph was joined by cream-coloured Chas, who was much more badly behaved.

Morph lived in an artist's wooden pencil box.

Some of the early plasticine models of Morph were destroyed in a fire at the warehouse they were being stored at on 10 October 2005.

Morph and Chas appeared in shorts on the British children's TV programme SMart from 1994-present.

[Crasher]

Morph is from the Greek morphe meaning shape or form :D

[DaveNN]

Morph is from the Greek morphe meaning shape or form :D

He wasn't any good though............................
I though that it first appeared on VisionOn, with the bloke with the white flasher coat on.....who had OD'd on Crystal Meth!!:D