Clutch vibration on diesels

[frankj71]

hi guys,

I have just bought a second hand VW Touareg 2.5 TDI (2004 model - low mileage) and I am experiencing a worrying problem. The Car drives well - no problems changing up or down gears but everytime I put my foot on the clutch pedal i get this buzzing vibration through my foot.

At first its not that noticeable but after a while it starts to really irritate (slight numbness in foot - and vibrating sensation continues even after I have finished driving).

What does this mean - I have a serious clutch problem or im just not used to driving a diesel?

I've never owned a VW or a diesel before so I don't know what the normal experience is.

Help?
frank

[chrisvrscrx]

Does your car come with a warranty as this sounds like the Dual Mass Flywheel might be on its way out! I'm sure the clutch expert will comment on this 'Pauloz' I will PM him the link to this thread for you.

[chrisvrscrx]

PM Sent ;)

[frankj71]

Thanks Chris, the dealer gave me a 9 month warranty so it looks like I may need to use it.
:(

f

[chrisvrscrx]

Its good that you have a warranty this job can cost £1500 +

[Pauloz]

hi guys,

I have just bought a second hand VW Touareg 2.5 TDI (2004 model - low mileage) and I am experiencing a worrying problem. The Car drives well - no problems changing up or down gears but everytime I put my foot on the clutch pedal i get this buzzing vibration through my foot.

At first its not that noticeable but after a while it starts to really irritate (slight numbness in foot - and vibrating sensation continues even after I have finished driving).

What does this mean - I have a serious clutch problem or im just not used to driving a diesel?

I've never owned a VW or a diesel before so I don't know what the normal experience is.

Help?
frank
Certainly get it looked at asap bud. Vibration, means something isnt right, and its only going to get worse and wear other components too. TBH I know little about the Touran - its a bit new for me (I work in the aftermarket, typically 3 years old +), and even then, a Touran is more likely to be taken to a dealership rather than an independant garage. As far as i can see there is no clutch yet available from anyone in the aftermarket, dealer only. What i have managed to find out is that the 2.5 Touran has a traditional release bearing, not a concentric hydraulic unit more common these days. Your release system will still be hydraulic (not cable), but the slave cyclinder must be outside of the bell housing with the release bearing sliding up and down a guide tube to actuate the clutch. Where I'm going with this, is because vibration at the pedal (if all the time, or is it intermitent?) normally means something is amis at the bearing/clutch interface. Possibly the bearing is wearing its way into the clutch - which can be several things; Can be caused by slight misalignment between engine and gearbox/worn release fork pivot (both causing misalignment), but unlikely unless the gearbox has been removed at any point?
It can be a worn guide tube, meaning the bearing doesnt release fully..... but again fairly unlikely i think, unless the box has been off, normally caused by incorrect lubricant.
All of these issues are exagerated by a fault in the hydraulic release system - if all the fluid doesnt return easily, it will increase the force of the bearing onto the clutch, and accelarate normal wear.
DMF is possible ...... but not normally just with the vibration you describe, thered usually be a knocking noise on engine startup/shutdown?
Do you get any clutch slip at all?
If the clutch plate was really worn it would vibrate - but would slip easily by this point.

So..... could be several things I'm sorry! :biglaugh: Definately get it looked at asap though - its only going to get worse.

Hope that helps... and cheers for the PM prompt ;)

[frankj71]

Thanks for the help Paul, to answer your questions I haven't experienced clutch slip it seems to work fine - its just the sensation of feeling the engine vibration coming through the foot pedal - but quite noticeable after driving it for a while.

The car has low mileage - 20000mls would that be very early to have this kind of problem.

I have a feeling that the dealer will look at it and tell me that its a deisel and that its natural to feel something through the clutch. It would be good if there was a more specific way of identifying/illustrating the problem. What should I ask him check for? Is there a simple way of verifying the problem?

f
ps its a 'touareg' not a 'touran' - does that matter?

[Pauloz]

Thanks for the help Paul, to answer your questions I haven't experienced clutch slip it seems to work fine - its just the sensation of feeling the engine vibration coming through the foot pedal - but quite noticeable after driving it for a while.

The car has low mileage - 20000mls would that be very early to have this kind of problem.

I have a feeling that the dealer will look at it and tell me that its a deisel and that its natural to feel something through the clutch. It would be good if there was a more specific way of identifying/illustrating the problem. What should I ask him check for? Is there a simple way of verifying the problem?

f
ps its a 'touareg' not a 'touran' - does that matter?
Aye, sorry, i meant touareg.
You shouldnt feel a noticable vibration through the pedal. for that, there must be a pulsing at the clutch/bearing interface.
To be fair though..... you shouldnt have your foot on the pedal long enough to hardly notice, never mind get numbness? For clutch longevity, the pedal should be touched as little as possible, and not held down when in first gear at lights....? ?If stationary for more than a few seconds, its best to knock it out of gear, the re-select.

[frankj71]

Yep agreed - and I admit I have 'slept' on the clutch in the past a bit when at the lights.

I have modified my driving style in the this car to avoid this (mainly because of the vibrations) but even when depressing the pedal to change gear I can feel it and it causes a tingling feeling in my foot.

Maybe I should just drive it for a week or so and see how it progresses. I read a thread in the VW Passat forum that describes the problem exactly:

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=16766

but I dont know how it was resolved

The dealer gave me a 9 month warranty so I have a bit of time on my side

f

[frankj71]

I have being paying close attention to the problem over the last week and here is what I have noticed.

The vibration is not noticeable through the clutch pedal until you press it about 2 cm - then it kicks in.

If you accellerate at the same time the frequency of the vibration changes in line with the engine revs.

There is general vibration (very minor) in the cabin as well.

The vibrating sensation while actually driving is not that intense but after a long 2h drive I can feel the vibration in my foot and leg for some time after.

I have adjusted my driving style to ensure that my foot does not rest on the clutch unless actually changing gear, and this helps...but i still have a worrying feeling that something might not be right.

I think I will just have to ask the dealer to check it

f

[polo226kph]

Hi

For some time now there is a noise when I rev the engine up and down between 4000rpm and 6000rpm, sounds like something is loose, a resonance sound but not a droning. There is also a vibration starting at 1500rpm, which I can feel tingling through the clutch pedal and the gear lever. There is also a light thumping noise comming from the front side when I drive over speed humps. The engine is still very lively. The car has 38700 kilos / 24000 miles on the clock. VW changed the gearbox oil at 33000 kilos / 20500 miles to cure the crunching of the second gear which was a problem since I bought the car. Even when I press the clutch pedal in fully while parked I can feel the vibrations and hear the noise when revving the engine.

When turn to the right at intersections the clutch feels more rough when I want to change to second gear. So I suspect it could be the gearbox mounting. I had the car on a lift but everything looks fine.

Is it the clutch, an engine/gearbox mounting or a bearing somewhere that is defective?

__________________________________________________ ______________________________


2006 Polo GTI 1.8 Turbo 20V BJX Engine code. Deflector removed from intake. Spotlight infront of SMIC removed. Not chipped yet. Top speed 226km/h as indicated by resetting the trip computer, Speedo indicated +-235km/h at 6200rpm. Outside temp was 5 degrees celcius.

[ottoman14]

hi guys,

im pretty new to this forum, so hello vwaudi.co.uk. cool site

anyway, i seem to have the exact same problem as you guys. Ive got a vw golf, 03 tdi se, and almost immediately recognised the vibrating clutch. the trader who sold it to us said its normal and its the cables rotating. i took the risk i guess, and having checked this forum as well as getting it checked out by several mechanics, all said its the flywheel going. however, all the mechanics i spoke to advised not to replace it now, though as paul says can wear out other parts.

trader who offered me 3 month warranty said he'd sort it for me if i buy him the piece, which'll cost me 200 pounds.

oh, also noticed a clear 'knockin' type noise, very distinct but my mates aint picked up on it as yet, so know for sure it aint the engine, again confirming what someone has said about vibratin clutch with noise...

im gonna drive the car for a wee bit longer, and then get the flywheel done if need be.

hope its not too bad...

not alone i guess ;)

[frankj71]

hi all,

I just wanted to update you on my experience of the vibrating clutch problem. I purchased a 2nd hand VW Touareg 2.5 tdi (18000 miles) in january and for the first few weeks I was convinced that I had some sort of clutch problem - evident by the vibrations travelling through my foot when driving and even noticeable for some time after a drive. The more I thought about it the more I noticed it.

I could not be sure whether the problem was a real problem with the car or whether it was just that I was not used to VW diesels. Then, I checked out a brand new passat belonging to a friend and realised that the clutch vibration was a lot more pronounced in that car. I began to feel more relaxed about it.

I also followed some advice on this forum and modified my driving style - I now disengage gear completely when I stop in traffic and take my foot off of the clutch (a habit I picked up after years of driving petrol cars)

After 4 months of driving it I am now completely oblivious to any clutch vibration. I think it was just a matter of adjusting to it. I notice that a lot of the posts in this forum relate to cars that were just recently acquired by their owners - this would suggest that in a lot of cases its simply a matter of adjustment to something that feels different.

My advice - check out the clutch on another similar VW, see if there is any difference. Drive your car for a couple of months and try not to ride the clutch pedal and then see if you adjust to the new clutch. If there is still a problem at that point you may indeed be unlucky enough to have a real clutch problem.

In may case it would appear that the problem was in my head...l:biglaugh:

happy motoring
f
2.5 TDI Touareg
heated seats...mmmmm

[TSAY]

hi all,

I just wanted to update you on my experience of the vibrating clutch problem. I purchased a 2nd hand VW Touareg 2.5 tdi (18000 miles) in january and for the first few weeks I was convinced that I had some sort of clutch problem - evident by the vibrations travelling through my foot when driving and even noticeable for some time after a drive. The more I thought about it the more I noticed it.

I could not be sure whether the problem was a real problem with the car or whether it was just that I was not used to VW diesels. Then, I checked out a brand new passat belonging to a friend and realised that the clutch vibration was a lot more pronounced in that car. I began to feel more relaxed about it.

I also followed some advice on this forum and modified my driving style - I now disengage gear completely when I stop in traffic and take my foot off of the clutch (a habit I picked up after years of driving petrol cars)

After 4 months of driving it I am now completely oblivious to any clutch vibration. I think it was just a matter of adjusting to it. I notice that a lot of the posts in this forum relate to cars that were just recently acquired by their owners - this would suggest that in a lot of cases its simply a matter of adjustment to something that feels different.

My advice - check out the clutch on another similar VW, see if there is any difference. Drive your car for a couple of months and try not to ride the clutch pedal and then see if you adjust to the new clutch. If there is still a problem at that point you may indeed be unlucky enough to have a real clutch problem.

In may case it would appear that the problem was in my head...l:biglaugh:

happy motoring
f
2.5 TDI Touareg
heated seats...mmmmm


I've been driving VAG diesels for 12 years now - they've all had the standard vibration through the pedals if you rest your feet on them. Check out some old copies of Diesel Car magazine - plenty of references there to the "usual VAG thrum". It's got steadily better through the updates to the PD (the first models were very noticeable) and with the new Common Rail engines should be eliminated on future models.

The compression on a diesel is much, much higher than a petrol and puts a stress on the whole vehicle and no matter how much engine damping it can't be masked completely.

You soon get used to it and you revel in the joy of driving smooth diesel power rather than a jerky petrol engine with it's pesky whine.

[ottoman14]

hi,

kinda agree that clutch pedal vibrations are normal (hopefully), but on my car, there is a very distinct sound coming from engine area. when sat in car, sounds like a road drill thing in use but from far away. its really annoying. strange thing is nobody commented on this. what can it possibly be?

:1zhelp:

[TSAY]

It could be a range of thngs unless you have 2 of you and someone with their head under the bonnet or under the engine trying to track it down.

But in most instances these types of noise are nothing to get worried about and just a loose/broken bracket or clip that means something like the exhaust or a hose is vibrating against something else rather than having the space to vibrate all by itself. However, fix it before it turns into something serious. You'd be amazed how many more serious faults can be elimintated by tackling something simple in time.

[Paul Jay]

Whoa! Glad I stumbled on this post.

My Bora 130 PD has been driving me crazy with a similar vibration, which is also manifesting itself as a bassy droning noise. Noise/vibration is there all the time whether or not clutch is depressed, but is worse at certain revs. Recently had a new clutch, DMF and concentric bearing (Sachs) and I'm beginning to suspect that the latter hasn't been fitted correctly when taking note of the symptoms.

This being the case, the garage are going to have to check this out again, because I've been back 4 times, they say the noise is there, but they don't know what it is!

Thanks for posting this, it's really helpful.

Cheers

Paul

[ottoman14]

hi,
sorry to hear that man. cars can be a right headf sometimes :mad:
i mustve spent 100s on my pug before it got right...touch wood.
i kinda get the feelin now that the vibrating clutch MUST be normal in vw/audi/seat etc cars, too many ppl with same worries, and as someone pointed out, we are all new owners to these cars, thus be more sensitive to that wobbly clutch (in comparison to ma pug).

hope it gets better.

;)

ottoman

[Paul Jay]

All diesels are noisy, but VAG versions are worse than some. That goes with the territory though.

I just don't accept that vibrations/excessive noise are normal though and have no intention of letting this spoil my enjoyment of the car. It's cost me a LOT of money recently and I'm not letting someone else get all the benefit of it.

This has been one of the mist helpful posts I've read on the forum and if it helps sort the issues I have with the Bora then I'll be a happy person!

Will keep you posted.

[Pauloz]

Whoa! Glad I stumbled on this post.

My Bora 130 PD has been driving me crazy with a similar vibration, which is also manifesting itself as a bassy droning noise. Noise/vibration is there all the time whether or not clutch is depressed, but is worse at certain revs. Recently had a new clutch, DMF and concentric bearing (Sachs) and I'm beginning to suspect that the latter hasn't been fitted correctly when taking note of the symptoms.

This being the case, the garage are going to have to check this out again, because I've been back 4 times, they say the noise is there, but they don't know what it is!

Thanks for posting this, it's really helpful.

Cheers

Paul
That sounds like a gearbox/input shaft bearing then bud to be honest. Its difficult to fit a new clutch/DMF/CSC so it vibrates - that normal comes as a problem later on through accelarated wear.... although its not entirely impossible.

[Paul Jay]

Strange how the noise/vibration has only appeared since the clutch/DMF was changed then?

It's going in AGAIN on Friday for the new engine mount, which appears to have masses of play in it, but I've told the garage to get it sorted whatever. The problems started after they worked on it.

If the box needs a rebuild, I can feel a psychotic moment coming on!:aargh4:

I bought a VW for perceived reliability, this heap of garbage should have the registered keeper as the garage not me.